 Author |
 Post
|
 |
|
jen b
Joined: Apr 15, 2002
Posts: 61 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Talkative
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Female & 25
Country: Canada
Province/State: Ontario
City: Brampton
|
concerned
August 28, 2002 - 08:42 AM
|
|
Frist post in here, first of many i hope.
I am concerned about how the growing population is going to effect the future. Soon (maybe sooner then we think) there won't be enough food to feed us all. There won't be enough room to grow the plants and house us at the same time.
What concerns me is the types of laws that may be established and how the public will react. many would be flatly opposed to population laws, saying things like "why should the government say how many children i can have", or "This goes aganist my religion".
So I have a few questions for you to think about.
1 When should laws agaist popultion be put in place? Now? in 30 years?
2 What would a reasonable limit on the number of children you'd be allowed to have be?
3 How would they enforce it?
4 Would you obey such a law?
I've just started thinking about this and answers aren't coming easily to my mind. I read of different solutions in sci fi books but i can't be sure that those could apply to real life.
I'd love to hear other's comments and sugestions.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Nedal Zahran
Joined: Jun 12, 2002
Posts: 43 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Talkative
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 31
Country: Palestine
|
Population
August 29, 2002 - 02:20 AM
|
|
the delimma you are proposing is one between civil liberities, and the interest of the world's population. it is a big dilemma, and no one can give himself the right to decide between these. personally i don't go for large families, but i don't think imposing my opinion on others is a good practice.
statistics show that the large increases in earth's population come from the south. countries of the north have very low (or even negative population growth rate). in many cases these huge growth rates are due to ignorance to their effects.
what is needed here more than population laws and regulations, is investments in the people's awarness of the reprecussions of high population growth rates. A united nations summit has been held on this issue in cairo, egypt in the ninties (i can't remember the year exactly) and a un fund- unfpa has been established for the purpose of finding solutions for this issue. in my opinion very little has been done.
the media can be quite positive in this issue sometimes, in jordan many tv commercials try to emphasise the use of contraceptions does not contradict the beleifs of Islam (which is the religion of the huge majority). other ads might concentrate on the benifits of smaller families. personally i beleive this is the right approach to dealing with the issue, however work on this should be intensive.
ned.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
sofia
Joined: May 8, 2002
Posts: 2 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Tongue-tied
User is
Offline
Country: New Zealand
Province/State: Auckland
City: Auckland
|
Re: concerned
August 30, 2002 - 11:58 AM
|
|
there are so so many orphanages in china. the reason being the one child-in-a-family law. these orphananges are especialy full of GIRLS. girls that have been disowned due to their gender. (boys are much more desirable cuz they carry on the family name, work etc...) HOW SAD IS THAT! so many children are disowned it is not funny. many children are hidden or sumggled out of china. thousands of families leave there too (not only b/c of that issue but it is an important factor). this law is helping stop their growth rate and ensuring more possibility of a sustainable future for all human kind but it is psycologically damaging to many. due to bonds between mother and child abortion is damaging (possibly mentally and physically) to the mother and so women try to avoid that as much as poss. if a second child is born it has to be forcefully taken from its rightfull parents and into a squashy orphanage.........if the child is a girl or disabled it will most likely be abanoned and disowned so the parents can have a "better" child...the law also goes against many religions (eg. christians)
for all these reasons i think that a a law such as that does not work right. just because a law can be enforced an gets us where we want to go does not mean it is the best way of getting there...
so i tend to agree with with nedalz idea of education towards contraception and let people make such personal decisions for themselves. the whole education idea hasnt seen any resuts cuz although it is widely supported, no one has made a real effort to make it work..........
............sad isnt it
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
jen b
Joined: Apr 15, 2002
Posts: 61 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Talkative
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Female, 25
Country: Canada
Province/State: Ontario
City: Brampton
|
Re: concerned
August 31, 2002 - 01:12 AM
|
|
The key to the solution may be balance. We'd have to equalize the birthrates so that places that need ppl have more children and the places that don't don't. So that there is no increase in birthrate and no descrease (100 die 100 are born type thing). That might be ideal but so many factors still get in the way.
Get back to sci-fi books. In some i've read (by Larry Niven), they had this whole fertility board you'd have to go to for permsion to have a child, and they could turn you down if you had even an herititary disease. That gets into selective breeding all many other issues.
One other system I read about went like this, each family can have as many children as they wanted. The first two children get free education and full rights, but for each child after that you're taxed and have to pay for education and the child has less rights. Still many problems with this as well i guess. It seems like nothing will be able to satisfy everybody.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Nedal Zahran
Joined: Jun 12, 2002
Posts: 43 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Talkative
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 31
Country: Palestine
|
Re: concerned
August 31, 2002 - 01:59 AM
|
|
Shaboboo, These systems you are refering to do not acheive our aim within the restrictions we set for ourselves, which are maintaining civil liberities, i.e. everyone's right to decide matters regarding his/her family. The second system which is what is currently in effect in China (might be surprising, but chinese are not forced to abort second child), leaves the child with minimum rights, again endangering our aim of equality for all.
EDUCATION and AWARNESS are the primary weapon in this fight.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Adelaide Corey-Disch
Joined: Jun 29, 2002
Posts: 7 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Soft-spoken
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Female, 24
Country: United States
Province/State: Florida
City: Atlantic Beach
|
Re: concerned
August 31, 2002 - 02:31 AM
|
|
Yes- education and awareness are the keys to the ever- increasing population. No country except a dictatorship, etc. would pass a law that limits your children! So forget about it. As people have mentioned before, China has done it.It DOES NOT WORK. Every country should be emphasizing contraceptives, and not just because of the pop. AIDs/HIV and poverty are two big reasons. But Shaboboo- think about it. I live in America, and there i no way a congressman or really any politician would be voted for if that was there platform. oh- another thing- it would also help if adoption was encouraged. I know if i ever wanted a child it would be really ignorant to have one of my own. There are plenty in orphanages or foster homes who need a family.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Mike
Joined: Aug 31, 2001
Posts: 369 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 25
Country: Australia
Province/State: Western Australia
City: Perth
|
I think
August 31, 2002 - 04:47 AM
|
|
I think this thread got taken down the dangerous path of 'lets look at the bad side first.'
Sure, there are too many people in this world - and the population of this planet is just going to increase (tend towards 11 billion, and then it will hold steady - according to scientists) but over here in Australia, there is quite the kunundrum!
See, since the baby boom at the end of World War II the Australian populations birth rate has been decreasing. So much so, that the taxpayers of Australian will soon be paying for the pensions of the baby boomers, to the point that there is NO way for the baby boomers to be fully subsidised.
Since the worlds economic markets have had a downturn, many are facing having to work past the age of retirement.
It seems having a low birth rate can be a problem as well.
That said, sex education would easily reduce birth rates across the board. The problem is, other issues get in the way like poverty (ie - no access to education) and religion.
Sad.
- - -
Pred.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Nedal Zahran
Joined: Jun 12, 2002
Posts: 43 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Talkative
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 31
Country: Palestine
|
Adoption
August 31, 2002 - 06:10 AM
|
|
Well, Adeclaire, you are right, there is no way a politician would be elected for office for such and electoral promise...
But I have one thing to comment about. I know pregnancy is hard for you girls, but Adoption always remains the second best option. At least in my opinion nothing is like having a child of your own. It makes you feel it is a part of you. of course not always.. but that's the case for me (not that i have any kids now  )
ned
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Gerald Derome
Joined: Oct 23, 2001
Posts: 168 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Chatterbox
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 55
Country: Canada
Province/State: Ontario
City: Toronto
|
Try Science Friction.
August 31, 2002 - 10:41 AM
|
|
My view of a next world choice in my texts have indicated that we should thrive to build for a populace of 10 billion while taking up 50% or less of the worlds surfaces for our upkeep (water, food, land).
The problems of overpopulation or not enough food, or, the opposites, underpopulation and glutanous lifestyle is man made and can be resolved.
We in some parts of the world take our best lands and turn them into big sprawling cities. Paving roads, erecting buildings, get educated so we can adminstrate the rest of the world then have our foods shipped in from places in exchange for useless goods and gadgets that people do not need.
We are all to blame for the way mankind has become. We all follow in our ancestors footsteps.
The past and the present are ugly. Time to beautify the future.
We have the know how but not the willingness.
We are all children of economic and/or military war.
Population propaganda flies like a ping pong ball.
We can feed 15 billion, yes we can, no we cannot....
Those still fertile can safely have 3 or 4 children, yes, no.... Depends on space and resources holdings of individuals and/or countries.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Adelaide Corey-Disch
Joined: Jun 29, 2002
Posts: 7 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Soft-spoken
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Female, 24
Country: United States
Province/State: Florida
City: Atlantic Beach
|
Re: concerned
September 1, 2002 - 04:10 AM
|
|
So many people don't know or don't care. Thats what gets me. They just clear cut forests to build some totally unnecessary things, and it seems like NO ONE tries to make things more efficient. And fertility drugs- those are make women have, like, 7 kids! People just want, want, want. So what if developing wrecks the environment! Oh, Nedalz- having children may well be wonderful. But it just seems so unnecessary, I think in the end that if you raise a baby, it will feel like they are apart of you, even if you are not the biological parent. Maybe if people just had their first child, and if they wanted more- adopted? With all our problems people need to learn how to compromise.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
jen b
Joined: Apr 15, 2002
Posts: 61 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Talkative
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Female, 25
Country: Canada
Province/State: Ontario
City: Brampton
|
Re: concerned
September 2, 2002 - 07:28 AM
|
|
people need to see that we have problems, some just don't get it, they don't see that they need to compromise
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Alisa Costa
Joined: Sep 3, 2002
Posts: 2 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Tongue-tied
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Female, 38
Country: United States
Province/State: New York
City: Albany
|
Education
September 6, 2002 - 09:47 AM
|
|
I have to agree with everyone who spoke about education. It really is the key. I think there is a way to balance it all in a civil liberties fashion. Clearly, forcing child limits upon a population without even trying to educate them will fail. The fact is, women who are educated have fewer children. People with opportunity have fewer children. Education must also include sex education that teaches people how to control their fertility. Society must encourage small familes. It must be seen as positive. It is very difficult to alter centuries of teaching to "be fruitful and multiply."
Health care is another key. Countries with higher infant and maternal mortality rates encourage lots of pregnancies. When a child has a high chance of surviving past age 1, people's frame of mind will change to having fewer pregnancies.
Policies that force child limits will not stop women from having children. Policies that ban abortion will not prevent women from having abortions. It only makes either child birth or abortion unsafe and underground. I believe educating individuals and empowering them to make the choice for themselves is the only way. The problem is, it takes generations. Unfortunately, politicians don't want to wait that long and countries like China do not have that long. We must start educating now and everywhere to reduce fertility rates, decrease STI and HIV/AIDS transmission, decrease abortion rates and decrease infant and maternal mortality rates.
Whew. I think I got it all out without forgetting what I wanted to say. If I have more to say, I'll come back another time.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Kale
Joined: Sep 6, 2002
Posts: 1 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Tongue-tied
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 29
Country: New Zealand
Province/State: Auckland
City: Auckland
|
alternative to laws?
September 6, 2002 - 11:59 AM
|
|
Laws dictating how many children a couple may have, have already been tried in some countries. I am not sure, but think there are still countries where such laws exist.
How many? Well if each couple (two people) had two children, a stable population would eventually be reached. You would in fact have a negative rate of population growth, as not all children reach reproductive maturity.
As for Laws against having too many children, I don't like this approach. Although I'm not sure how feasible my alternative is. That is, education about the population problem.
If everybody knew about this problem and cared for our world and future generations, they would only have two children - for the sake of the world. Even at present population levels, the environment is not sustaining present living conditions.
Of course we also have to consider that many pregnancies are not 'planned'. This problem will also have to be faced, primarily by education.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Mike
Joined: Aug 31, 2001
Posts: 369 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 25
Country: Australia
Province/State: Western Australia
City: Perth
|
I see . . .
September 7, 2002 - 04:25 AM
|
|
I see where Kale is coming from.
Perhaps if more people did care about the world, we wouldnt be in the predicament we find ourselves in.
I think its all about responsibility, both self-responsibility and a responsibility to educate others who lack the knowledge to know better.
Its up to us.
- - -
Pred.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
|
Display posts from:
|
Home
Community
