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Jordan Bob
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Visual Stereotyping
August 9, 2002 - 12:28 PM
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I hate the fact that everyone stereotypes by what people look like. Everyone is always saying that you shouldn't "judge a book by it's cover" and that you shouldn't "judge a man before you've walked in his moccasins" and my parents are always telling me to be open to new people, places, ideas, thoughts, opinions, everything and not to judge before i get to know someone. Then why does eveyone do it! I don't understand it! i don't smoke. i don't do drugs. i get good grades. So what if some of my friends do some bad things, and don't do well in school? that doesn't mean i'm a bad person. or that they are bad people either. so waht if i wear fishnets on my arms, or a spiked collar around my neck, that doesn't make me bad. i am expressing myself. i am confortable with who i am. i am trying to show different sides of myself. i like harder music, so what? it's more raw and emotional. i like that. i've been through good adn bad times just like everyone else. you can't judge me by that either. you have to know my opinions, my thoughts, my ideas, what i stand for. waht are my values. who do i love adn trust. that's what you should, not judge me by, but use as a guide to how close you can get to me. and if you do that to everyone, i bet we could all be closer to a lot more people.
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Michael Furdyk
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I agree!
August 11, 2002 - 05:34 AM
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I think that you make a great point; too many people don't realize that their perfect looking children who wear advertised clothes can just as easily be the ones who are smoking, doing drugs, and making other decisions that might not be in their own best interests.
Indeed, perhaps those (like youself) who feel comfortable enough expressing themselves by wearing what they want and feel good about are the ones who are secure enough about themselves that they don't need to succumb to the typical peer pressure and make decisions like smoking and drugs that really don't lead to any "true" greater sense of self-satisfaction!
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Grant Price
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Re: Visual Stereotyping
August 12, 2002 - 07:54 AM
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hmmm...
OK - You are trying to express urself??? If this is so, then you want people to hear, to listen...This implies judgement...
So how do you expect people to judge you when you wear these items? (not saying these people are right, just interested in what you are trying to express)...
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Jordan Bob
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Re: Visual Stereotyping
August 12, 2002 - 12:20 PM
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All i am saying is that i am trying to express myself, to myself, for myself. i don't care what other people think of me. But i still don't understand why people will look at a person and judge them. You can't do that. YOu have to get to know the person first. People assume i am a druggy or a trouble maker, but if you get to know me i like school, i get good grades, i don't do drugs, i have goals and ambitions, i love my friends, basically i love everyone as i cannot be mean or hate people, it's just not in my nature. Everyone expresses themself in some way, just some more than others, adn everyone does it differently. So why should we be automatically sterotyped just by teh way we choose to express ourselves. i don't understand how someone can look at a person and say "he is a duggy" or "she is a slut" adn they don't even know their name! How come we can't just get to know people first. Then we will probably find that they can get along with that persona dn have some common intersts. People woudld get along better and have a wider variety of friends if we did that. If we accepted people as they are adn didn't exclude them based on appearance. Even if you completely do not get along with someone AFTER getting to know them, at least you tried instead of not bothering at all. YOu may find that your closest friend is someone who yo umight otherwise walk by and not even look at jsut because you have chosen to judge them based on their appearnace before getting to know them. i think that is immature. Why can't we all jsut grow up and start thinking for ourselves instead of going along with all of the stereotypes taht are out there. You can't assume someone is a certain way jsut by their appearence.
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Grant Price
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Re: Visual Stereotyping
August 13, 2002 - 08:22 AM
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ok...you are "trying to express yourself...to yourself" ????
I thought you would have a pretty clear understanding of your thoughts and feelings without having to dress up  
But the question remains...what were/are you trying to express???
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Raymond M. Kristiansen
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Re: Visual Stereotyping
August 15, 2002 - 10:41 AM
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the real question is: how do we minimise the bad aspects of stereotypes?
personally I have no problem with understanding iamfound13's dilemma. to feel stamped and put in a box because of one's clothes, or who one hangs out with, or what music one listens to.
But at the same time we are all victims to our own stereotyping of people. The way to fight stereotypes is to communicate. Tolerance comes from also being able to be open-minded to people. This means for instance being able to think that just because someone listens to heavy metal music (for instance), wears a lot of black clothes and perhaps even has a punker hair-style, that person is not necessarily a very dark person filled with negative thoughts on life.
And finally a small note on the psychology of stereotypes. In order to survive mentally, our brain makes boxes of things so that not everything seems chaotic and random. This is useful in many cases, but it is also something which closes our mind for new nuances of life.
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Jordan Bob
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Re: Visual Stereotyping
August 15, 2002 - 11:58 AM
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I still don't know why i have to explain to you what i am trying to express as i think that is somewhat of a personal thing, but i'll do my best. Basically, i am expressing the fact taht i do HAVE the freedom to express myself how i wish. In other coutnries, people don't have that freedom whereas in Canada, we have that right. I am expressing the type of music i like. i like heavier metal, rock, death metal, alternative and most harsher sounds. i think it is more raw, pure, emotional and genuine then other music. i love the sound of the instruments adn it really helps me to release tension adn my feelings adn emotions so i relay that through my clothing. Also, i like to represent different aspects of my interests, ie photography adn the type of photography that i like. It expresses some of the people i hang out with, though not all, but a peice from everyone. It represetns the ups adn downs in my life. i've gone through good adn bad times just like everyone else, and i'm not afriad to show other people that it has affected me. I'm not a bad person. I do have dreams and goals and innovation. I also have the inititive and drive to get there. And i plan on enjoying myself along the way and expressing myself the way i want for as long as i can while i can still do it. Who knows, maybe tommorow, i will wake up and want to express myself in a different way. i don't know, maybe by only wearing red. And a year from now, maybe i will only wear stuff from the Gap. i don't know taht, you don't know that. we are always changing. i'm jsut changing my outer self to reflect my present inner self. why is that such a bad thing to some people?
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Raymond M. Kristiansen
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Re: Visual Stereotyping
August 16, 2002 - 08:17 AM
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Originally posted by iamfound13
...
we are always changing. i'm jsut changing my outer self to reflect my present inner self. why is that such a bad thing to some people?
Excuse me, but I sense some sort of inconsistency here. You complained earlier that people judge you because of your clothes or other more external measures, and now you say that you are changing your outer self to reflect the present inner self. Yes, I DO understand what you mean, but I am in a pedantic mood right now :P
If you agree that your outer self somewhat reflect your present inner self, and then accept that people can have a reason to make certain associations, do you then not also think that people are correct in, to a certain extent, let those associations lead them to certain assumptions about your personality?
Without jumping into all the PC crap about it only being the inside that counts, we need to realise that the FORM of something (be it art or a person) also Does have some significance in the expression of the Message. The WAY you speak up about something in a conference affects the way people see your Point.
As such, there is a huge difference in the way you look (piercing, tattoos, length of hair, amount of holes in your jeans, or whatever) and the way you Behave.
Personally I couldn't care less about what clothes people are wearing, but well honestly speaking, only to a certain degree. People constantly wearing jogging suits (loosely sitting) and looking as if they just came out of an aerobic studio in the 1980's DO give me certain (less positive) associations.
People judge you and me on our clothes, our looks, our hunting grounds (which night club you go to, what restaurant), the language we use and so on ad infinitum. Yes, of course this is annoying. But it is part of life, and we gotta concentrate on minimising the negative aspects of this kind of boxes-putting instead of complaining that it happens at all.
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Grant Price
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Re: Visual Stereotyping
September 2, 2002 - 10:27 AM
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What i said was not remotely prejudicial. I simply questioned whether she really was expressing herself to herself.
I think when people express themselves it is always to cross some interpersonal boundary, and when you do this, you open yourself to other people judgements. Why did you ask what i would consider "normal"? I never questioned anything about normality - So how about starting to read what I have written, and not looking for something which isnt there to substantiate a conflict.
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Grant Price
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Re: Visual Stereotyping
September 2, 2002 - 10:41 AM
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and the question does remain!
what in specific terms is she trying to express...the "myself" thing is pretty vague...What about herself is she expressing???
You've gotta be more specific than that, because that means nothing. To express something, is to make a point...It is an opinion...An object by itself is not an opinion...You talk ABOUT the object. You form judgements/opinions on the object which becomes your expression.
Tim...You say "THis comment of yours seems extremely prejudice, and ignorant to be honest. Of course she knows who she is, and her own thoughts and feelings, no matter what she is wearing. Im not one to ask you, or judge what you wear, but whether you dress like a sheep, or dress like you just came out of a swamp, YOU havent changed."
Well - This is exactly what I say here: "I thought you would have a pretty clear understanding of your thoughts and feelings without having to dress up"
If this is true...Then I must hammer home the question again of whether she truly is expressing herself to herself
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Tim Stanley
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Grant_Price - What do you consider NORMAL?
September 2, 2002 - 12:14 PM
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I think you have to start looking at whats really real in life....
Your last comment really bothers me, because of how much you are thinking INSIDE THE BOX!
"trying to express yourself...to yourself" ????
This is likely exactly what she is doing... just like you do every morning when you wake up... unless you run around naked (which would also be an expression of your being).
'I thought you would have a pretty clear understanding of your thoughts and feelings without having to dress up '
THis comment of yours seems extremely prejudice, and ignorant to be honest. Of course she knows who she is, and her own thoughts and feelings, no matter what she is wearing. Im not one to ask you, or judge what you wear, but whether you dress like a sheep, or dress like you just came out of a swamp, YOU havent changed.
and the question doesnt still remain, you answered it yourself, she is expressing herself to herself, and to anyone else who is willing to listen to her, WITHOUT prejudice judgement.
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Mike
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Re: Visual Stereotyping
September 6, 2002 - 09:44 AM
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I think she is finding herself in the process of trying to express what she is.
Sorta like deciphering ones personality after experiencing what she is like in different situations and environments.
Kind of like life, in a way.
- - -
Pred.
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Jordan Bob
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wow.
September 16, 2002 - 11:25 AM
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I really did not think that i would get this dramatic of a reaction from my original posting. I was just trying to vent out some of the things I was feeling at the time. I am not trying to point a finger at anyone or put the blame on anyone. I just want to say I am a good person, please don't pass up the oppourtunity of getting to know me just because of the way I look. If everyone did that, this would be one sad and lonely world. So hopefully I inspired you to open up and accept people for who they are. And if just one of you smiles at a person that you would normally pass by unnoticied, then there is one less lonely person in the world. And that's good enough for me.
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