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Ray Ovac

连接： May 12, 2004
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Re: Proof of Aljazeera bias / terror support
September 21, 2004 - 11:03 AM

By the way, shouldn't Abassi Madani be praised for promoting a simple agenda of "compassion for the innocent"?

Isn't such a position precisely what Islam promotes?

Why haven't more Islamic leaders come out (not necessarily on hunger strikes) to speak directly to those who commit such horrid acts in the name of Islam to ask them to stop?

Do you want to know what I think?

I think that many Islamic leaders feel exactly this way...that these are crimes not only against humanity but against the peaceful religion of Islam...a perversion of a compassionate faith. However, these leaders believe that speaking out may put them in jeopardy of being singled out by the media as being "out of touch"...or, worse yet, fear being targeted themselves.

Perhaps I am wrong, but why this isn't more publicized is beyond me.

I have one additional question for those who are Muslim ("real Muslims"...not those who believe that Islam promotes such butchery).

What do you believe will happen to the souls of those who behead innocent men wrongly in the name of Islam?

I can tell you what I believe would happen to the souls of men who would do the same in the name of Christianity...they will go to hell. Period.

I know that you don't support what these people do, but what kind of sin is it to misuse the name of Islam to commit such acts?

I think that I know the answer, but I want to hear your opinions because I can't see why the outrage seems to be so minimal.

God Bless!

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Ashraf

连接： Jan 31, 2004
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Re: Proof of Aljazeera bias / terror support
September 21, 2004 - 11:32 AM

Rayovac,

Perhaps you are not aware that Muslim leaders and scholars have spoken already against the kidnapping and beheading of the innocent no matter where they come from. You speak that Aljazeera is biased and help terror and that is a very despicable claim to say the least. On Sunday there was a program called 'Shar'ia and Life' where a Muslim scholar hosted by Aljazeera spoke very openly against such actions.

Please be objective for once in your life time!

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Ray Ovac

连接： May 12, 2004
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Re: Proof of Aljazeera bias / terror support
September 22, 2004 - 03:17 AM

Originally posted by Palestinian
Rayovac,

Perhaps you are not aware that Muslim leaders and scholars have spoken already against the kidnapping and beheading of the innocent no matter where they come from. You speak that Aljazeera is biased and help terror and that is a very despicable claim to say the least. On Sunday there was a program called 'Shar'ia and Life' where a Muslim scholar hosted by Aljazeera spoke very openly against such actions.

Please be objective for once in your life time!

Pal:

Explain the omission

God Bless!

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Ray Ovac

连接： May 12, 2004
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Re: Proof of Aljazeera bias / terror support
September 22, 2004 - 03:41 AM

Originally posted by Palestinian
Rayovac,

Perhaps you are not aware that Muslim leaders and scholars have spoken already against the kidnapping and beheading of the innocent no matter where they come from. On Sunday there was a program called 'Shar'ia and Life' where a Muslim scholar hosted by Aljazeera spoke very openly against such actions.

Pal:

This is great to know! I suspect that this is not being promoted adequately outside of the Middle East...and it should be!

As I have already said, there is no doubt in my mind that 99.999999999999% of Muslims deplore this type of thing...and the rest aren't what I would consider "real" Muslims (not that my opinion probably matters much in this case).

I am not the only one, though, who has concerns about bias with Aljazeera. As you know, Iraq has openly denounced the network and (I believe) has prohibited them from reporting in Iraq (or maybe it is that they have removed their press rights...I can't recall).

To me, the omission that I described here is beyond accidental...in fact it is not an omission at all. It is a lie...a changing of the facts of the story to make it seem as though this holy man is not protesting the taking of non French or Italian hostages.

I know that Aljazeera is respected by many, but for me this is the straw that has broken the camel's back. Frankly, right now, I have no interest in hearing defense of Aljazeera...I wanted to post what I saw as a blatant intent to manipulate the reporting of the facts on something that is absolutely without "wiggle room".

This is the same network that always is the first be provided with videotapes and web sites and letters from these scumbags which suggests to me, at a minimum, that Aljazeera is respected by them.

If I am wrong, if I am simply "shooting the messenger", then I will apologize later on. Right now (I will be the first to admit) this most recent murder (actually, the murder from Monday and not today...they are stacking up so quickly now) has allowed emotion to get the better part of me. I literally have not eaten for two days and need to step back a bit...I simply cannot get the image of that old man rocking back and forth, shaking, blindfolded, clearly knowing that he was about to die, crying, and then these (I won't use the word that I want to) people doing what they did to him. The fact that men like this exist is something that I have always known...and I had seen what they did to Nick Berg...but this time it was too much.

The intimacy and purity of their evil...and evil is *precisely* the correct word...is so far from my world as a Christian that I simply need to take some time on this.

God Bless

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Cicero

连接： Feb 1, 2004
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Re: Proof of Aljazeera bias / terror support
September 22, 2004 - 04:17 AM

I always though if a media, that is criticised by all parties involved is a "un-biased" one. I see al jazeera gets critique from just any side there is. (From time to time i visit its english page to see what it has to say about world news, and i have it as good source for news concerning arabia and broader.

Palestinian, help me here, how do you view al jazeera, especially at reporting news?

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Ashraf

连接： Jan 31, 2004
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Re: Proof of Aljazeera bias / terror support
September 22, 2004 - 07:42 AM

Rayovac,

You realy should read about the Arabic public opinion of Aljazeera hosting Zionist officials to explain their point of view and you realy should follow the interviewss Aljazeera holds with the most fanatic officials in the American side especially when they explain their policies on 'War on Terror'. If presenting opposing views is called 'biased' then maybe you should define for us the meaning of 'unbiased'.

The fact is Aljazzera has done a great job in keeping the Arabic public aware of the events around them and their success in coveing the events of the wars on Afghanistan and Iraq speaks volumes about how professional their journalists are.

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Ashraf

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Re: Proof of Aljazeera bias / terror support
September 22, 2004 - 07:50 AM

Kaiser,

One word: Excellent!

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Cicero

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Re: Proof of Aljazeera bias / terror support
September 22, 2004 - 12:29 PM

Originally posted by Palestinian
Kaiser,

One word: Excellent!

Oh, we are two that say that.

Usually my main news source of abroad is CNN. I know that lets say FOX news is biased, but would still watch it for a time to see "approach" they have. I dont have access to aljazeera satellite program, website is for now sole source. Not to say i'd love to have that program to watch.

Also al arabiya sounds good, just, well, i havent got enough eyes for all.

How did "Al Hurra" managed to get foothold in arab audience ? Visited their website, seen they are at least fair enough to publically say they are funded by US Congress. (I think its largelly ignored - if i think it how it would be towards our people, they dont really love being taught whats right by a nation that is openly against us.)

Well there i see a huge difference: Arab audience actualy faithfully follows daily news, while our people dont, or dont have time to. (I am sure they would be too, if we were in middle of happenings).

Ave Futuria

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Ashraf

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Re: Proof of Aljazeera bias / terror support
September 23, 2004 - 04:21 AM

Kaiser,

When it comes to comparing Aljazeera with its rivals such as AlArabiya, AlManar, MBC, or the American sponsoered Al-Hurra, Aljazeera is unmatched.

I watched once an interview done by AlJazeera with one of the former Guantanamo Bay detainees, and saw how eager the questioned was to answer all of his host questions with no reservation. But the same person was constantly provoked and frankly insulted when he was interviewed by AlArabiya..and if you look at Al-Hurra they simply present what the American government and the congress want for the Arabs to believe and that is what I call 'biased'.

Aljazeera was the first to show images of war on Afghanistan and that what made the American officials literally pissed off. They could not imagine that an Arabic satellite channel could be #1 source for news. If you still remember, the American war planes actually bombed Aljazeera's press center in Kabul and killed one of its chief reporters in Baghdad and that certainly shows how much they 'value' freedom of speech.

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Cicero

连接： Feb 1, 2004
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Re: Proof of Aljazeera bias / terror support
September 24, 2004 - 04:20 AM

I know I know, Our TV stations actually got their footages from Aljazeera (from afghanistan) as CNN was not allowed there in such extent. And not to forget, that at time of invasion into Iraq, a tank fired a missile into hotel Palestine, where reporters stayed, interestingly who got hit: Al jazeera crew among others.

And.... In Basra i think there was one incident involving al jazeera reporters as well.

Of course even installed iraqi govt. does its part, from time to time al jazeera gets banned. (such approach popularisizes al jazeera, in case they dont know that yet).

Ave Futuria

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Ray Ovac

连接： May 12, 2004
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Re: Proof of Aljazeera bias / terror support
September 24, 2004 - 11:15 AM

Originally posted by kaiser
I know I know, Our TV stations actually got their footages from Aljazeera (from afghanistan) as CNN was not allowed there in such extent. And not to forget, that at time of invasion into Iraq, a tank fired a missile into hotel Palestine, where reporters stayed, interestingly who got hit: Al jazeera crew among others.

And.... In Basra i think there was one incident involving al jazeera reporters as well.

Of course even installed iraqi govt. does its part, from time to time al jazeera gets banned. (such approach popularisizes al jazeera, in case they dont know that yet).

Ave Futuria

Gentlemen:

I don't want to interrupt this Aljazeera love - fest, but I still have not heard a description as to why Aljazeera explicitly changed the message from "innocent foreigners" to "two french journalists and two italian women".

While you are praising their integrity, please consider this.

Also consider what a terrorist holding and American (or two Americans and a British citizen) would conclude after reading only Aljazeera's article as opposed to the real story. "Hey, by sawing the heads off of these guys while they cry and beg for their lives, we're not violating the request of this Islamic leader."

In fact, this is not just "bias". Until I hear a good explaination, I will consider Aljazeera complicit in the murder of these men.

Of course, this can't be done. Why? Because the article is printed and the message already sent. No "correction" by Aljazeera or "other statements" made later to clarify their message will undo the damage that has been done...these men are already dead.

What if these terrorists were moved by the pleas from families of these men and were considering delay or suspending their murder? What if all that it would have taken to push them over the top was the request from *one* more Islamic leader who was so concerned about the lives of these captives that he is putting his own life at risk?

What if then they read the Aljazeera article...basically reading that by explicity defining the French and Italian hostages, this Islamic leader was making qualifying the reduced value of the lives of Americans and British innocents?

So priase them all that you like...the facts will remain.

By the way, John Kerry today made a speech where he substantially (and for the first time, but better late than never) made the case for *overwhelming force* against these scumbags and effectively said that he will *not* be a "dove" to the Bush Administration's "hawks".

Of course, this is a political move, but I do believe that Kerry has realized that he will need to be as firm or more firm than Bush both during the election and if he is elected with terrorists. I personally am still not voting for him *BUT* I applaud his position *AND* can honestly say this: No matter who wins the upcoming US election, the terrorists will have nowhere to hide and will be met with the firm resolve of the civilized people of the world. These idiots continue to stir a hornets nest and one - by - one, day - by - day, year - by - year, they will be captured or killed until they are wiped off of the face of the Earth....and if new people join their cause they, too, will be subscribing to a grim and futile future. In my mind, the gloves now need to come off. I am sick of it, I *KNOW* that the Iraqi people are sick of it, I am sure that the people of Afghanistan are sick of it, the American people are sick of it, I know that the Russian people are sick of it, the Israeli people are sick of it, the British Empire is sick of it, and I can assure you that the entire civlized world is sick of it.

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Ray Ovac

连接： May 12, 2004
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Re: Proof of Aljazeera bias / terror support
September 25, 2004 - 03:12 AM

Originally posted by Palestinian
Rayovac,

Let's examine the first website, shall we?

The introduction says:

=Doha: A popular and moderate Islamist from Algeria who has been in Doha for about a year, Abbasi Madani, has begun a hunger strike demanding unconditional release of innocent people held hostage by militants in Iraq.

And let us look at what Abbasi Madani said (in quotation):

"Islam does not preach violence and what the militants are doing is maligning the religion. They are playing in the hands of the enemies of Islam,"

You have some problem of understanding, Rayovac.

The introduction of the report is related to what Abbasi Madani said in the quotation. "Innocent people" in the intro corresponds to what Abbasi Madani said. He did not specify whether they were "innocent" contractors, journalists, or medical doctors according to this excerpt.

The first link is not also the official Aljazeera website ..and that is another problem with your accusation.

If you want to be obective, you should display your analysis based on conflicting reports from the same official website.

Now let us examine the second

The introduction says:

=The leader of the outlawed Algerian Islamic Salvation Front (FIS) Abbasi Madani has gone on a hunger strike in the Qatari capital Doha to demonstrate for the release of two French journalists and two Italian women held captive in Iraq.

Here we have a 'specific' mission according to the report to release the Italian and French journalists. It never said or suggested that other people of different nationalities are not innocent.

You lack objectivity, good Rayovac.

Pal:

I never said that Aljazeera contradicted *itself*...I was showing how it changed the story from "all innocent people" to "two French and two Italians". When you read the first story (not Aljazeera), the statement clearly alludes to "all innocent foreigners". Then, go to the Aljazeera site and they *change* the statement and suggest something that is not true.

Challenge my objectivity all that you like...I can read and know what I see when I look at separate articles written about the exact same story. One (Aljazeera) is blatently suggesting that Abbasi Madani is on a hunger strike to protest only the taking of the two French and Italian hostages...where his actual statements say something totally different...he is protesting *ALL* foreign hostages being taken.

I applaud Abbasi Madani and his public denouncement of this insult to Islam (as I applaud all Muslim leaders who step forward to speak out against what these butchers do). My complaint is not about Abbasi Madani or even related to Islam...to the contrary, I think that what Abbasi Madani has done (and others like him) is truly in the spirit of peace. My complaint is about Aljazeera for "spinning" the story to make it seem as though Abbasi Madani was only protesting the capture and eventual beheading of innocent French and Italian foreigners and not "unconditional" release of innocent people. These are very different.

I am Roman Catholic. If the Pope made a public statement saying "The beating and sexual humiliation of prisoners at Abu Gharab prison is an insult to and not in keeping with the teachings of Jesus Christ." *BUT* this statement was reported by FOX News as "The Pope today said, 'The beating of teen - aged prisoners by Catholic guards at Abu Gharab prison is an insult to the Roman Catholic Church' and called for an end to this behavior immediately." then FOX News would be guilty of (essentially) aiding in the beating or sexual humiliation of all non - teenagers at Abu Gharab and even the beating or sexual humiliation of *all* prisoners by non - Catholics. Further, by changing the story, they would be showing both poor journalistic ethics and would likely be guilty of political bias in their reporting.

The only difference, of course, is that Aljazeera's action may have contrubuted to the murder of more than three people in the real world while my "FOX News" example ws purely hypothetical.

There is no excuse that can be made for Aljazeera...and their actions cannot ever be justified or the blame placed elsewhere ("Aljazeera may have lied, but the *cause* of their lying is the US liberation of Iraq. They may be wrong, but the US is more wrong." wink

God Bless!

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Ashraf

连接： Jan 31, 2004
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Re: Proof of Aljazeera bias / terror support
September 25, 2004 - 09:37 AM

Rayovac,

Let's examine the first website, shall we?

The introduction says:

=Doha: A popular and moderate Islamist from Algeria who has been in Doha for about a year, Abbasi Madani, has begun a hunger strike demanding unconditional release of innocent people held hostage by militants in Iraq.

And let us look at what Abbasi Madani said (in quotation):

"Islam does not preach violence and what the militants are doing is maligning the religion. They are playing in the hands of the enemies of Islam,"

You have some problem of understanding, Rayovac.

The introduction of the report is related to what Abbasi Madani said in the quotation. "Innocent people" in the intro corresponds to what Abbasi Madani said. He did not specify whether they were "innocent" contractors, journalists, or medical doctors according to this excerpt.

The first link is not also the official Aljazeera website ..and that is another problem with your accusation.

If you want to be obective, you should display your analysis based on conflicting reports from the same official website.

Now let us examine the second

The introduction says:

=The leader of the outlawed Algerian Islamic Salvation Front (FIS) Abbasi Madani has gone on a hunger strike in the Qatari capital Doha to demonstrate for the release of two French journalists and two Italian women held captive in Iraq.

Here we have a 'specific' mission according to the report to release the Italian and French journalists. It never said or suggested that other people of different nationalities are not innocent.

You lack objectivity, good Rayovac.

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