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iman sadiqyar
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U.S has made a mistake
August 11, 2004 - 07:42 AM
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U.S has made the mistake that Russia had done in 1979,by attacking on Afghanistan.The same situation is here in Iraq invasion of USA.
While the Russian had attacked in afghanistan they thought that they will capture afghanistan in only one month,but unfortunately the Afghan Mujahidin raised against them and kicked them out of the Afghanistan.
Al sadar and its Mehdi army can prove themselves as the true Mujahidins.And they will fight until they kick usa out of their homeland.
and u all will remember this.
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Haseeb
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Re: U.S has made a mistake
August 11, 2004 - 08:19 AM
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Originally posted by Eeman
While the Russian had attacked in afghanistan they thought that they will capture afghanistan in only one month,but unfortunately the Afghan Mujahidin raised against them and kicked them out of the Afghanistan.
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Eman , why would you say "Unfortunatly"?
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Cicero
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Re: U.S has made a mistake
August 12, 2004 - 04:38 AM
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It takes two to tango. What are these two parties named doing (Al Sadr and US Army) is doing exactly that. Only a public relations failure by US army towards Shia general population, can make Al Sadr gain overall support and a background. And as it look,s US army will do exactly that.
This time i will say the Future is unclear.
Ave Futuria
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iman sadiqyar
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Re: U.S has made a mistake
August 12, 2004 - 07:24 AM
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dear haseeb
i am telling unfortunately in relation with the aims and ideas that Russia had and they were failed in their mission
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khatereh
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Re: U.S has made a mistake
August 12, 2004 - 07:32 AM
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what do you think the USSR mission was?
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khatereh
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Re: U.S has made a mistake
August 13, 2004 - 02:28 AM
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there is a fact you have not taken into concideration:
for the plight of afghanistan, US is to blame: it was merely with the ouvert support of US that alqaeda and other f*** radical islamic groups came to power in the first place. they used them as a shield against the spread of marxisism in the regeion and then when communism posed no threat anymore, they needed to do away with these groups who were becoming a nuisance themselves. and also there is the lucrative market of arms and WMD to consider.
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: U.S has made a mistake
August 13, 2004 - 03:43 AM
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I know,
I know that the CIA was using Bin Laden against the Russians - and I agree that this was a grave mistake.
But the greater mistake was leaving Afghanistan to its own devices after it had been ravaged by war - we should have stayed involved and helped Afghanistan to its feet and toward democracy as we have in other areas of the world.
I think this would have been the wiser course of action for all involved - considering how we have spent the last 2 decades fighting radical Islamists in one form or another.
But the topic of this thread is will Iraq be a Quagmire - you are saying like Afghanistan was to Russia - but the more relevant comparison is America in Vietnam.
The answer is that I don't think Iraq will be another Vietnam - there have been mistakes made in the execution of the war - but in general the Iraqi's are much more cooperative - the resistance isn't backed by major powers like China and Russia (like North Vietnam was)
And... well we control 80% of Najef. I think they need to be careful in how they deal with Sadr - Try not to turn him into Myrtar - or do anything to that Mosque that would upset the larger Shia population - but there is no way Sadr is winning this conflict - he has way too much stacked against him and far too little behind him.
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khatereh
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Re: U.S has made a mistake
August 13, 2004 - 05:16 AM
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now, the question is not whether america wins the fight or not. it's rather why it started a war without a cause? (Iraq wasn't a threat to the US. at the time the IEAE report very clearly stated that Iraq didn't possees any nuke or WMD. and there was an interview with the former head of iraq's nuclear program on BBC the other day, the guy said that after the first Gulf war all the labs were completely destroyed.)
the reasons are obvious, ofcourse and i don't think even a child would fall for such an alibi as " liberating the people". and you talk about people not resisting, well they know bloddy well what the costs would be and that that wouldn't take them anywhere; this is absolutely beyond their control.
this is an interesting article, a bit too ardent though: http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/aug2004/naja-a13.shtml
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iman sadiqyar
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ussr mission
August 13, 2004 - 06:26 AM
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dear khatereh
i have studied the history of USSR and Afghanistan.
once ussr was a very small country.they had ideas of spreading their land,because russia is a very cold and in which most of its parts are non cultivational.therefore they wanted to spread their land and come towards the southern asia and finally middle east and wanted to invade the main resources of petroleum of the world.but they failed to do so.
these are the biggest purposes for what ussr attacked afghanistan.
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: U.S has made a mistake
August 13, 2004 - 06:42 AM
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I think you should visit the thread called "was the war in Iraq justified" - and talk to Hammodi - he is an Iraqi living in Baghdad.
I think he will correct you as to why most of the people are coorperating - not the absense of resistance but active cooperation - there are many Iraqis who are happy that Saddam is gone - and there are many who want to build a new and better government.
They cooperate not out of fear but out of hope.
They see guys like Al Sadr and Zarchawi as an obstical to their goals of a safe and democratic country which progesses in all areas.
I think you see the Interm government taking stiffer action against the insurgency than the US. And I expect that once the elections transpire - set up and monitored by the UN - the newly elected leader will take a hardline against insurgency and terrorism - because these things represent instability and danger.
I think you see Al Sistani keeping a very level head and advising cooperation "They have made alot of promises lets see if they keep them" - I think he said.
I think many Iraqis have adopted a "wait and see" attitude toward the coalition - if the coalition really does transfer power at the assigned times - in a real sense - back to Iraqi authority - then the people will be more or less happy for the change.
Most hated Saddam and is happy he is gone - they don't like being occupied, and they do not want us to stay and colonize their country -
but if an independant democratic country is the future - then they will look forward to this and tolerate the occupation in the interm.
I don't think that the "reason" we went into Iraq was to liberate anyone - rather that is the justification.
I think there were a few reasons -
1 - The real reason the administraition wanted to go into Iraq - the true goal - is to insert Democracy into the center of the middle-east -
Why? because capitalist democracy is the opposite of Radical Fundamentalist Islam - because Pluralistic Democracy can act as a counter-force to the growing xenophobic tide of Radical Islam - IN THE LONG TERM.
Because there is an ideological beleif that once Iraq becomes a success - a wealthy country with a booming economy (which it easily has the potential to become - far more potential then Afghanistan due to the general education level of the citizens and abundance of natural rescources)- once the concept of democracy takes firm hold and people enjoy daily freedom and affluence - they will be the envy of the Islamic world - and inspire reform throughout the middle-east.
That is the goal - a fools dream? perhaps.
2 - alot of people thought he had weapons - and Challibi was trying very hard to convince us he did.
He certainly did have weapons post Gulf War - the inspectors turned up all kinds of things in the proceeding years until Saddam kicked them out in 98'
In the early 90's they got close enough to Nukes that the Israelis had to fly in and knock out their reactors before they came online.
3. Saddam tried to kill Bush's dad. Iraq tried an assasination of G.Bush Sr. - Bush is a Texan - they take things like trying to kill their fathers rather personally.
As for Najef - Atrocities? are you kidding - they are doing every thing they know how to treat this with Kid gloves - because the no one wants to upset the larger Shia population - thus creating more resistance.
The concept is to win the battle and not lose the war.
The ones shooting at civilians are the Sadi army - they are also the ones trying to use one of the holiest site in Islam as cover and a base of military operations.
The US could have crushed him months ago - but they are trying to be delicate - I think when Sadr kept acting up and breaking ceasefires the Marines have just had enough - they want to be done with this guy.
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: U.S has made a mistake
August 13, 2004 - 10:46 AM
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there are 3 major differences between The US now and Russia in the 80's.
1. One is the technological superiority is much greater because of the last 20 years of technological progress. When we fought in Afghanistan is was far more successful than when the Russians did.
2. The other major difference was that the US - a superpower - was supporting the Mujahadeen and their efforts - Al Sadr has no such ally against US.
3. The terrian in Iraq and Afghanistan are very different - it is far easier to get boggd down in gurrilla warfare in Afghanistan - Iraq is flat which makes satillites more effective etc.
Right now Sadr is pinned down in Najef - his capture wll probably not be the end to violence - but his capture I think will happen in the next few weeks.
But Sadr was never a major concern - he is a minor cleric and just sort of a trouble maker - Al Sistani is not with him so he is more of a nuisance than anything else.
The one I am truly concerned about is Zarchawi - because he is the evil psycho that is sowing the seeds of destruction everywhere in the country and keeping it from attaining stability.
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Cicero
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Luke has always lot to say. I do too.
August 14, 2004 - 03:54 AM
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So lets dance:
When you said Al Sadr hasn't got a major public support you were right. After every US army action he gets more of it. US military, with a reputation which is as it is, and public relation as it is, is even by my eyes not viewed favourably as a occupying force (and they havent done nothing to me - yet). What else by the population that has to live under their rule for the time being. Where you have such conditions you seek for a life line. You SEEK, but think a bit later about it. Al Sadr as a vocal, most visible opposition towards US army culminates that sentiment.
Ave Futuria: Freedom ! Equality ! Progress !
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Ashraf
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Re: U.S has made a mistake
August 14, 2004 - 06:22 AM
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The US administration does not need an excuse to start any war..Which nation can stop it anyway?. In the past we had the 'Soviet Union' which was the only major power that could face the US. But that power no longer exists.
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Cicero
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Re: U.S has made a mistake
August 16, 2004 - 03:53 AM
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Originally posted by Palestinian
The US administration does not need an excuse to start any war..Which nation can stop it anyway?. In the past we had the 'Soviet Union' which was the only major power that could face the US. But that power no longer exists.
Let me correct you a bit:
Opposition of course exists, but balance among position and opposition doesnt!
Ave Futuria
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Ray Ovac
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Re: U.S has made a mistake
August 17, 2004 - 12:41 PM
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Originally posted by Palestinian
The US administration does not need an excuse to start any war..Which nation can stop it anyway?
Pal:
Which nation can stop the US administration?
Well, for one: The United States of America!
This is a concept that I continue to get nagged about, but I continue to push back on because it is so important.
Unlike many nations, the current Administration of the US neither controls nor acts above the nation (the people)...it simply gets periodic "nods" from the people to either continue or get out (because the people don't like what it is doing). We (the people of the US) are going to do this again in about 12 weeks. If we think that the current administration is abusing its power (either domestically or abroad), we'll kick them out and put someone else in. Right now, this is one of the main positions of John Kerry. We'll see what the American people think.
The US has had this power, by the way, for nearly 15 years now. Aside from Iraq, where has the US initiated any military action in that time? There was military action in former Yugolsavia a few years ago, but like the first Gulf War it was with a larger coalition (including Saudi Arabia). Of course, in Yugoslavia, it was to prevent the near genocide of Muslims...but we don't seem to hear much about that anymore.
My point is that there are plenty of checks still in place (the UN...the US is not as powerful as *everyone* else) and the American people...who I think you will find are a pretty fair lot and not predisposed to throwing our weight around.
Further, this idea of "balance" is never true. Are you evenly matched with your government leaders? Are employees evenly matched with their employers? Can any people easily stand up and overtake their government? If anything, history has shown us that singular power brings stability. The problem arises when that power is abused or is held by an entity that does not have the common interests of those over whom it holds that power in mind. Obviously, you are concerned that this is not the case with the US...I don't agree with you.
God Bless
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