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NesreeN
Joined: Apr 21, 2004
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Water Conflict?
June 14, 2004 - 09:24 AM
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Is it true that the next wars would be over the scarce water resources?
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NesreeN
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Re: Water Conflict?
June 14, 2004 - 06:09 AM
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I agree with what you said, but for instance each country gets a share of the clean water resources. Each country gets a specific water quota depending on the number of its population. If we take the Nile Basin member countries, or other countries that share a water resource, you will find that the share increase or decrease with the population. Other factors such as land is not taken into account, so if a country with a large population but occupies less land area, then its share is more than another country with larger area but smaller population. I guess that this is a problem in itself.
So would such a problem lead to war between these countries, each wanting to increase its specified quota?
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Robert Margolis
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Not necessarily...
June 14, 2004 - 12:34 PM
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There is a saying (attributed to Mark Twain): "Whiskey is for drinking and water is for figting over." ;-)
Certainly access to clean water is one of the big challenges in the world and has been for a while. That does not mean that the issues cannot be handled peacefully. Wars would likely damage the water sources rather than provide fair access.
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Danny Sweeney
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Re: Water Conflict?
June 15, 2004 - 06:18 AM
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The next war could be over anything - when two peoples want to fight nothing can stop them.
But water could be something that people might fight over.
It's ironic really - some countries are worrying about global warming causing floods but others are desperatly short.
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Cicero
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Re: Water Conflict?
June 15, 2004 - 06:26 AM
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Yes it will be.
Ave Futuria
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Robert Margolis
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Re: Water Conflict?
June 15, 2004 - 09:37 AM
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Sounds similar (though more intense) to the conflicts in the US and Mexico over the Colorado River water. EVERYBODY wants a large share and there are only so many to go around. Even with drip irriagation and xeriscaping, the large populations require more water. And of course, nobody in the US wants to pay for desalination (though some desalination does exist). I recall that there are Arab countries that use desalination and even Kazakhstan had a desalinator. My guess is that desalination is too expensive (or lack of access to the sea) for many developing countries.
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Ray Ovac
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Plenty of (salt) water
June 21, 2004 - 11:51 AM
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In my mind, it all really comes down to energy...and we've seen so many wars waged on this resource. If energy was in unlimited supply, salt water could be de - salinated and transported anywhere that it is needed without much burden.
Energy is (and will likely remain) the largest cash commodity on the planet. Some would argue that money is the root of all evil...yet even currencies rise and fall in value based on the supply of energy available.
Along these same lines there is a very interresting economics argument that goes something like this: everything of value is ultimately composed of three things: land (which involves ownership of raw materials), profit, and energy. When you buy a television, some of the price goes to profit and the rest goes to cost. Of these costs, some of it comes from the energy to make the tv, some goes to labor (more on this in a minute), and some goes to "materials" (which in the case of a tv are all manufactured components in themselves). For each of these manufactured components, some (like glass) are made from raw materials (silica), labor, and energy...the rest of the costs go to profit for the provider. Labor is payment to a consumer who ultimately used the money to buy goods (like tv's) and so the cycle repeats. At the end of the day, all that we have are energy, raw materials (which come from land ownership), and profits. In a sense, even profits are a form of labor payment either to shareholders or stakeholders..so all that is left is energy and land.
From a more physical sense, land is just matter...so we are left with matter and energy which (from a perspective of physics) just about describes everything. We all know about property, but energy is the one thing that can drive everything else.
Of course, even energy can come from land ownership (oil in the Middle East?) But it is really not the oil that holds value but the energy stored within the oil that is needed.
This is one of the reasons why Kyoto was such a challenge to some nations (the US was one of them because of how much energy it converts...ie - uses to make profits). Kyoto effectively increased the cost barrier to converting land ownership (oil) to what is desired (energy) as it made it more expensive to make this conversion (the combusion of oil - which releases its energy would now be needed to be more controlled to reduce emissions...this would make the combustion process more expensive).
In any case, I've rattled on long enough about energy. In short, I think that water is a very valuable resource. However, the wealthy men who control oil in the Saudi Desert have no problems with thirst...think about it.
God Bless
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Selim Can Sazak
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It is already happening!
June 24, 2004 - 12:28 PM
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As we go out of resources that are essential for our living, the countries that possess these resources are becoming a target for others, especially its neighbors.. This just happens in my country. Although mesopotamia is known to be too fertile, the high rate vaporisation makes even drops of water important. The southeast of Turkey, for example, is fighting with drought... But if the lands in SE Turkey could be irrigated, it would be so fertile... And this infertility makes it impossible to agriculturally, socially, or economically improve this region... And so unfortunetely this despair makes it so easy to turn these innocent people into cruel terrorists.. That's why the government started the Southeastern Anatolia Project (GAP)... This project foresees a series of dams and irrigation tunnels to be built on Tigris and Euphrates Rivers to irrigate the Harran plains and make them available to agricultural activities.. But now the Syrian government, which doesn't love us so much anyway because of the Antioch issue, is saying that Turkey is trying to cut its water in order to take Syria under its control... Insane... Although Turkey has guaranteed Syria that it is not going to harm the water flow to Syria and compensate any harms that comes to Syria during the constructions... Water Wars Episode 1: The taps of Middle East!
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Selim Can Sazak
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My answers and contributions to Kaiser
June 29, 2004 - 03:35 AM
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To Kaiser:
First of all, I am going to mention the Antioch issue... If you have a good knowledge of the WW1 and its legacy, you'll probably understand what I am saying... With the declaration of the Wilson principles and the mandation (i could be spelling wrong, it is in a way colonization), the world map has started change massively... As UK figured out the difficulty of to colonize the Arab Peninsula, they started this mandation idea. Free in the country, dependable to homeland (generally assigned by the colonizer country) globally... Syria, which was designated by the withdrawal of the French troops from Syria and Southeast Turkey, was under remote control of Allied powers. Antioch, which became a problem as Mosul in Iraq because of its economical and geopolitical importance, was decided to be so-called independent. (Although the allied pressure was letting it to be). As the water calmed after the storm England has decided to put an eye on the lands which were designatedly and so-called independent... But Turkish government also had an eye on Antioch and Mosul because of the National Agreement signed by the new Turkish administrators led by Ataturk and his friends... Antioch was quite an easy target because it was free to make its own decisions and a majority of its inhabitants were of Turkish origin... After an election in the Antioch Parliament, Antioch was back to home... But things did not work quite the same for Mosul because the oil was starting to become more and more important and England was determined to control Mosul... So as Turkey was being shaken by an English-funded rebellion, England took Mosul... So unfortunate...
And about the Water Conversation issue, I totally agree with you... Because cars do not need water, government totally do not care about the water supplies but soon enough we won't be able to grow crops because of drought... This is a great danger for the future of the mankind, although it doesn't seem to be important now.. That's why I am starting a petition about the Conversation of Global Resources and commonization of the use of the Alternative Power Sources... I all invite you to sign this petition... For letting our children to have a glass full of icy water when ever they want to, to ensure the existance of the mankind, to let mother nature live
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Robert Margolis
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Malaysia and Singapore?
June 29, 2004 - 08:49 AM
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I recall reading an article on water conflicts between Malaysia and Singapore. It sounds like there are several "hot spots" where water scarcity could be a serious factor. Maybe part of the issue is that people are very sensitive to issues of water access and control. Even in the US, there are conflicts between farmers who have old water rights and growing cities that need more water.
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Cicero
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Re: Water Conflict?
June 29, 2004 - 10:18 AM
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Hey Selim:
Whats the thing about Antioch ? Between Syria and Turkey? Syrians want to grab land or what?
Ave Futuria
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Cicero
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Re: Water Conflict?
June 29, 2004 - 10:20 AM
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We must make water reusable as fast as possible. Build more water purification plants around the major cities. Then water doesnt needs to go through the natural way of purification, which takes long time.
And not to mention Jobs & Preservation of environment! Solely that makes such efforts profitable.
Ave Futuria
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Cicero
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Re: Water Conflict?
July 3, 2004 - 05:01 AM
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Great. Where do i sign the petition?
Thank you for information on Antioch issue. So i conclude it was an popular choice to join Turkey. From todays perspective that was a ultimativelly best choice of people there.
Imagine what would be if they would be left to the Syrians? Poverty... currently limited sanctions, not to mention Turkish inhabitans would be a minority, under pressure too.
About Mosul: Kurds live around there in huge masses. If Turkey would have that city annxed as well, the masses of Kurds in Turkey would be critical. (Civil war?) Dont know much, but i conclude so, as this is how normally things go, in history.
Thank you once again.
Ave Futuria
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