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Luke Lieberman
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A New School in Africa
June 13, 2004 - 06:42 AM
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My family has decided to fund the creation of a new School in Mali Africa. Next year about 100 kids will have books and desks and and a building to learn in where they did not before.
I will be going to help physically build the school for a few weeks.
I know very little about Mali - I am wondering what TIGers can tell me.
And I would love to hear suggestions as to what should be done to make the school a success.
about 90% of the students will be Muslim. We would like to impart to them that Jews and Christians are their brothers, not their enemies.
Besides the obvious basics of Reading, Writing and Math - what sciences do you think will be most important to them?
I guess I almost don't know where to begin except to ask for help - obviously we will be working with specialists who really know the country - but any help from TIG would be great.
And that reminds me - I should hook them up with a Chat the Planet portal so they can communicate with other kids around the world which they would not normally be exposed to.
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Adam Chaleff-Freudenthaler
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Re: A New School in Africa
June 13, 2004 - 10:41 AM
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On some level this greatly disturbs me. Have you been in contact with the community you're putting this school into? Do you know what their priorities are in terms of curriculim? Do they want your technological support? Do they want to learn about Christians and Jews? What process did you use to determine where to build it? Will you be hiring locally and offering fair wages for the construction and administration aspects of the school? Have you thought about how a governance model will work once you've built the school or do you expect to have a hand in administering the direction of the school after it's built? Will you also be offering funding to continue running the institution? How will you select a name for it? Do you have expectations in terms of commerating your family's act of charity?
There are far more questions that could be asked but that's a good start. To be frank, this smacks of colonialization and as if your family is merely throwing personal wealth at a problem to rid itself of responsibility for the inequities that exist because of the way wealth has been compiled throughout the West.
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: A New School in Africa
June 14, 2004 - 06:36 AM
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Adam, I'm in london now so I don't have time to debate this - I'll just say this P.C. police B.S. demaonstraites that you are an idoit more concerned with mental masterbation than affecting real change - honestly there is just no pleasing some people - does my family have money - yes, is this breaking us - no.
But it is certainly a sacrifice, and one we are making out of the bottom of our hearts - as far as throwing money at it - my mother is also dedicating a year of her time - and frankly as she is dying of a terminal disease I think that dedicating one of the last years she has to this project is something special.
don't you think this is all coordinated with people who want us to be there - you think they perfer to go to school in a one room shack with no desks or books or computers?that is what they have now - they are quite anxious to get a real school to learn in - preferably one with multiple rooms for multiple grades.
I guess I'll just finish by saying your a jerk - and I have no real interest in discussing this with you further - if you are not going to make positive contribution but rather dump on what is an act of pure charity and good will.
you lack wisdom, and understanding - and I would love for you to explain to these kids why you are deriding the people who are building their new school - the one they desperatly need - jeez.
we're not missionaries - we're not even very religious - we are not going to try to convert them - we are simply hoping to impart the idea that we are all brothers and sisters regardless of race.
the next time you have something unbeleivably stupid to say - keep it to yourself.
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Udara
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Re: A New School in Africa
July 12, 2004 - 06:21 AM
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Two things,
First , its obviously is the best to start some project and usually things would follow in normally. But indeed some preplanning should be done. I however support initializing things as by experience I know if we have the real effort, a project would be successful.
But I found the comments such as
“I guess I'll just finish by saying your a jerk” pretty incorrigible in a discussion like this where other people should share the ideas.
You are free to agree or disagree Adam’s viewpoint, but how, pray tell, do you interpret that simple act of posting his view point would make him a jerk with out knowing more on that person ?
Udara
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: A New School in Africa
September 7, 2004 - 01:39 AM
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Ally - I think you are failing to ask yourself a more fundamental question -
how do you think building this school is possible without the people in the area?
who do you think is doing the labor to build the school?
do you think we are flying in a bunch of Americans? Or just hiring locals?
what would be the point of building the school if no one was going to send their kids?
don't you think we need permission from the government - both local and national?
Don't you think this is being done with the collaboration of the local people? Do you tink it would be possible otherwise?
we are financing a school for them - and beleive me - they are very happy to have our help.
I have been around this cite a long time - and I have heard this Politically Correct BS kill many a good idea.
People like Adam are more concerned with words than actions - are more concerned with their own liberal "anti-imperialist" knee jerk reaction then some obvious truths.
If your kids were going to a school without books, or electricity - how would you feel if some wealthy Americans showed up and offered to finance a school for your kids to learn in?
How do you think we came to decide on Mali - we just spun a globe, closed our eyes and pointed?
It is very hard for me to take any of this PC crap seriously when we had representatives from Mali over at the house begging us to do this for them.
I met them - and then I hear you and Adam - and frankly you sound very young and naive.
The fact that you would sit here debating if it is good idea to build Schools in 3rd world African countries - I think is a huge problem.
You had better ask yourself - do you want to help the world? Are you willing to take actions to that end?
or will you always be paralyzed by people like Adam?
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Ally
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Re: A New School in Africa
September 7, 2004 - 12:25 PM
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luke-
it sounds like the school your family wants to build is out of the goodness of your heart but adams questions are perfectly reasonable.
i'm always a little concerned with these sorts of projects. An outside family/group/company coming into your community without really knowing the needs or desires of the community.
if someone came into my home and said "the way you live is bad. i want to help lets decorate" without my permission, without knowing who i am and what i want, i would get very angry and feel like i'm this little weak thing, not even a person.
i'm not trying to say that your family is horrible, i don't know you. and i'm not trying to say that you're out to destroy the world. but i want you to see that its important to think locally, act globally.
if you want to help, listen first. you don't know what that community would like. just like they wouldn't know what you'd like.
And I think you owe an apology to adam. he's not mentally masturbating (or at least i don't want to know about it) and he's asking perfectly good questions to make sure that this school is a success for both the community and for your family
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Ally
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Re: A New School in Africa
September 14, 2004 - 09:26 AM
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Luke I'll answer your questions as best I can. From your original statement about your family building the school, you had never mentioned that you were talking with the community. You cannot just assume that everyone will know that, and therefor must understand our concern.
who do you think is doing the labor to build the school?
do you think we are flying in a bunch of Americans? Or just hiring locals?
Adam was wondering if you were paying the workers a decent wage. Are they making a living wage? Do they have good working conditions?
don't you think we need permission from the government - both local and national?
Just because you can get permission from governments to build a school, does not mean that its still a good project. I know many bad laws, bills, projects that have been passed by governments. But we won't go there right now... Check out Bennet if you're really interested
Don't you think this is being done with the collaboration of the local people? Do you tink it would be possible otherwise?
Who knows. There are many groups that just go to poorer countries, take over, and hope that the locals will comply with their rules and demands. Many comply because they have no other choice.
People like Adam are more concerned with words than actions - are more concerned with their own liberal "anti-imperialist" knee jerk reaction then some obvious truths.
If your kids were going to a school without books, or electricity - how would you feel if some wealthy Americans showed up and offered to finance a school for your kids to learn in?
How do you think we came to decide on Mali - we just spun a globe, closed our eyes and pointed?
It is very hard for me to take any of this PC crap seriously when we had representatives from Mali over at the house begging us to do this for them.
I met them - and then I hear you and Adam - and frankly you sound very young and naive.
The fact that you would sit here debating if it is good idea to build Schools in 3rd world African countries - I think is a huge problem.
You had better ask yourself - do you want to help the world? Are you willing to take actions to that end?
or will you always be paralyzed by people like Adam?
You failed to mention any of this stuff in your first post and then later in your tyrade against adam. I take personal offence to you calling me "very young and naive". I had always thought that people on the TIG Boards were open-minded and wouldn't stoop low enough to oppress others.
Are questions and concers were honest and neither of us made personal attacks against you. I cannot speak for Adam, but I did not have any bad intentions in my post. You asked for help and advice, I gave you an honest opinion.
The first thing you can do is respect that. Until you realise that critisism is part of life and that hatred is unacceptable (in any form), I suggest you stop trying to solve the worlds problems until you solve your own need to feel superior. I am not attacking your ego or saying that what you're doing is wrong, and yet you still went ahead and made personal attacks.
The reason why I am sitting here debating building schools in Africa, is because building a school to make yourself feel good about saving the world is not going to solve the systematic problems in Africa and developping nations.
do you want to help the world? Are you willing to take actions to that end?
The best way for me to "help the world" is to first recognize who I am and how I can help people around me by being open-minded and respectful. Then I can fully understand the problems in a community and help come up with solutions.
To effect change you must first change yourself. Then stop thinking that you should deserve a medal and a pedastool for all your generosity. Until then you're just adding another band-aid even if its a school with books and electricity.
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rafre
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Re: A New School in Africa
September 25, 2004 - 06:14 AM
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i also have some concerns regarding the whole story. especially since u r saying that u know very little about mali. in the state of organisation in which i believe u r, it shouldnt be like that anymore.
however, i know the situation in rural areas in west-africa and i am sure that ur family really want to make an positive impact in the community. that is why i want to give u some advice for which u asked:
i have never been to mali but what i have noticed throughout west-africa is that they know very little about their roots and rather look up to the industrialized countries. i think it is very important for afrika that her people start being proud of themselves and that will only happen if they know who they r.
secondly, one major problem mali has is energy supply. the use of firewood is gradually leading to a ecologic collapps. the mali folkecenter (www.malifolkecenter.org) is doing wunderful work on prevention on this. they r mainly working on gender (which itselve is also a very important toppic) and enterprise creation but i am quite convinced that they can also help u to brake that toppic down for smaller kids. usually they r quite cooperative.
in ouagadougu (burkina faso) u can order solar-cookers in to be a good example  ) one costs 140 euro if i am not mistaken. if there is any small other enterprises promoting solar-cookers closer than in burkina, ibrahim of the folkecenter will know.
furthermore, i would like to support ally's suggestion to appologys to adam. if u ask for comments on a project without a detailt plan attached to it ,u cannot complain that people start asking questions. i am also fully convinced that all his concernes were right.
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