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Luke Cholerton-Bozier
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Does class affect ones future?
April 1, 2004 - 08:17 AM
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I was at a panel debate yesterday, hosted by BSkyB called Reach for the Sky - Young Futures. The panellists were discussing the findings of research carried out in the UK, amongst young people regarding how they feel their futures will be - careers etc.
One panellist raised this issue 'how far does the effects of class affect young people's futures?'. He also commented on the fact that nowadays, class has become such a taboo subject that it is no longer discussed.
So that's my question to you; does ones class affect or limit the range of opportunities that are available?
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Brian
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Re: Does class affect ones future?
April 1, 2004 - 10:42 AM
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Class is an issue in the US although a lot of people don't put the "class" label on things. For example, poorer school districts get less money for books and technology and students are less prepared because they are behind the curve. One thing I experienced when I was "somewhere below middle class" was that it is very difficult to make progress financially when banks charge people a lot of $$ just for the "priviledge" of having an account. I once had to close an account because my balance stayed low and I was being charged for not meeting the minimum balance. So then my options were to pay all my bills by using individual money orders which are expensive. Thankfully, I found a credit union (I love them!) who didn't charge me anything and let me join because I was a student.
Another is transportation. There are many stumbling blocks for people who need to drive to work at a location that maybe isn't covered by public transportation routes. This happened to me a couple times: I received one ticket because my insurance ran out, then couldn't afford the ticket. I then lost my job because I had to be there early in the morning before any busses ran. My situation downward-spiraled after that and it took me quite some time to dig myself out. Man that sucked!
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Ashley
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Re: Does class affect ones future?
April 4, 2004 - 01:05 AM
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I dont really think class has a huge effect on a persons future. I think a major factor is that person's attitude. For instance, a very rich young person could easily throw away their future away by getting into drugs and all that or they can take ALL they have been given and do well for themselves. On the other side a very poor young person can feel sorry for themselves and believe that this is all they will amount to, or they could strive to make their life better and become very successful.
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Evan
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Re: Does class affect ones future?
April 4, 2004 - 06:11 AM
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I agree with Ashley, mostly. Though class inarguably effects how much effort a person must put in to become successful, any person with humble beginnings but great motivation has infinite potential. In a free market society (and arguably other economic systems,) it seems anybody can work their way from the bottom to the top. Celebrities like Martha Stewart, and various musicians (rappers in particular) come to mind. I have not heard of many cases where a persons life is completely hopeless. But I may be speaking from a narrow point of view; the case could very well be different in less industrialized countries.
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Brian
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Re: Does class affect ones future?
April 4, 2004 - 06:18 AM
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Only one problem with Ashley's point. The rich person at least has the "opportunity" to waste their life or not. And often they do. Poor people don't. Their choices are waste their life and don't try or fight an uphill battle to succeed and still not make it because the system works against the poor.
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Esra Ozturk
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Re: Does class affect ones future?
April 4, 2004 - 06:52 AM
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Hey Everyone,
I guess I can see both sides of the situation. My father
grew up in a very small rural village in Turkey and to work endlessly to come to America. There he was in the low class, but here he is now in the middle class range of America. Honestly, I think it can depend on the person will and determination to advance and suceed in life. On the other hand,I know people who were born into an influential family and just by having that name, many oppertunities are given to them. I also can absolutly agree with some of the other things many of you have said.
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Carlos
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?
April 12, 2004 - 01:10 AM
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What is class? What does it mean to belong or be alocated within a class?
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Brian
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Re: Does class affect ones future?
April 12, 2004 - 02:30 AM
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In the US we have:
lower class = never has enough money to live has trouble paying bills and probably has menial job.
middle class = has enough to live on and may own a house/car.
upper class = has plenty of $$.
These are generalizations but are pretty acurate. I like to think that class in the US isn't based on race or birth but some would disagree with me. ; )
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Carlos
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Hmm...?
April 13, 2004 - 01:59 AM
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So what about the worker who earns good money, but then gets fired from his or her job? Is this worker all of the sudden a member of the lower class?
Or what about the Business owners who just started a business, and has just enough to pay for 6 workers, the new machines and his shop. Is he a member of the lower class?
What about the unionized worker who earns over 60,000 dollars due to spending 40 years in the assembly line. Is he part of the upper class?
Who belongs to what class?
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Brian
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Re: Does class affect ones future?
April 13, 2004 - 10:47 AM
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Actually yes. That's what's pretty unique in the US is that you can find yourself on top one day and on the bottom the next or vice versa. "Class" progression or regression (just making up these words!) is usually gradual but doesn't have to be. Let's say I win the $50 million $$ lottery today. In my humble opinion, that would catpult me from middle class to the "upper class" section. Now people who have been rich for a long time would call me "new money" but that wouldn't change the facts. It's all about numbers here for the most part. Does any of this make sense?
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Carlos
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Hmm... ?
April 14, 2004 - 12:11 PM
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I believe the term 'class' has more to do with property relations and control over the means of production, than just about how much money you have.
Many writers have writen about 'contradictory class position' and class displacement, and I think that although one can have a above middle-class position, it certainly does not mean that one is not disposable to the owners of a company.
I would like to think of the GM of a Nike plant in the Phillipines, where the GM has a position of power over the workers and production process, he or she is fully dependent on the decisions of a CEO's concern for the bottom-line. The GM understands that the chance of him or her being out of a job, and in the street, is in his or her ability to maximize profit for those AGMs.
I think that while we could say that a 'middle' class exists; I believe that it is not a non-proletariat class, I rather refer to it as a managerial proletariat class... mainly due to its extreme dependency on foreign capital for support.
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Cicero
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Re: Does class affect ones future?
April 15, 2004 - 04:05 AM
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Lets say middle class is an family, with both parents employed, with medium wage, or one Parent employed with high wage. They own their own house, or they can easily afford to pay rent for an appartment. They own a car - or two and can buy groceries as well with ease. They can afford to send all kids to schools, but with reservations on amount of money spend. From time to time they can go on vacation, but not luxuary one.
To be short: Middle class is comfortability, but NOT luxuary
Ave Futuria
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Carlos
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Middle Class...
April 16, 2004 - 01:47 AM
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But is this middle class in control of their means of production?
Many middle class families have seen a decline in their standards of living since the end of the 1980s, due to major shifts in the international economic scene.
Are middle class families becoming more vulnerable than ever by the forces that shift neo-liberal market dynamics?
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Brian
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Re: Does class affect ones future?
April 16, 2004 - 07:58 AM
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Yes middle class families are very vulnerable. My father WAS a State worker in Florida and now it is very hard for those workers to first get their jobs and then to keep them. Thanks Jeb Bush!
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Adam Chaleff-Freudenthaler
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American dream a joke
April 16, 2004 - 10:49 AM
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To believe that it's possible for anyone to work hard and succeed is instant proof that the "American Dream" propaganda works. It is so rare that a person can haul themselves from the lowest end of the class spectrum to the highest because there are many checks and balances along the way that keep them down.
Be it inadequate welfare/workfare or two-tier social services (education/health care specifically), a youth coming from a background of poverty starts out completely disadvantaged. While the people on this forum can draw up posts, there are poor youths who don't have this luxury and are instead slaving away at minimum wage jobs to help their family make ends meet. Whereas some of us have part-time work that accompanies school, many people can only focus on school part-time because if they don't put in 40 hours of low wage work their family can't pay the rent. Meaning high school becomes some people's second priority and assignments have to be handed in late or studying for exams has to be put off til the last second -- this would certainly effect their grades.
If my family situation was defined in a way that forced me to work, I would never have had half of the opportunities that I've been so fortunate to have -- ones that have and will continue to help me find work, get into programmes of my choice and allowed them to be funded through bursaries I've earned with that work.
Much of the activism I've done has been around fighting against poverty and finding ways to remove this disadvantage where possible. However, I cannot for one second believe that my success is not in large part due to being from a middle class family that hasn't required me to work to survive.
At one point it may have been easier for a person making the minimum wage to continue to move up through the class system but today the minimum wage is barely enough to live on (I believe its been proven in many districts through out North America that it isn't possible to live off the minimum wage). What's even more worrying is the divide that continues to be even more extreme between rich and poor as the Western middle class evapourates. In Toronto over the past few weeks we have seen reports showing that the number of neighbourhoods that are considered to be below the poverty line has gone from 15 in the 1980's to over 120 today (in those areas, employment rates are comparable to the city average; meaning it's the level of pay, not the residents' will to work). At the same time, we have also heard that women living on the street are believed to have a death rate 10% greater than that of the average woman.
So congratulations to Martha Stewart but obviously she's the exception, not the rule. And since she isn't the rule, and the rule is that most people have to be poor to support the rich then I conclude that this class system has to go.
The logic expressed has always been that people like Stewart inspire others to do the same, but if that were the case then we would have no poor people, right?
-Adam
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