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tilly
连接： Jan 28, 2004
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Re: animal cruelty
April 11, 2004 - 08:51 AM
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Cool thread guys. I just read it all and its really interesting. I'm not a vegetarian, but I guess I would say I'm wavering in between. Every time I meet someone that is a vegetarian I ask them why they don't eat meat, but I've never gotten an answer that convinced me that they really knew why they were doing it. It's either the "Mad Cow" fear, or the "because animals are cute" reason or the "eating meat is unhealthy" reason. To me its always seemed that fear is never a good excuse, appearance is only superficial, and natural meat in normal amounts seems perfectly healthy for an omnivore like us. Of course, McDonald's 'meat' in large amounts is unhealthy but that's another thing.
...I agree with eating meat in the hunter gatherer scenario: if humans were like another animal predator it would be the natural cycle to kill and eat. However, humans are not in the natural cycle, we've kicked ourselves out of it with all our development. Meat consumption has lost everything natural and has become another 'civilization' of the environment that we will pay for. The respect for the animals is not there. People have come to feel like they own the animal's lives.
...Where does that put old fashioned farms though? Self sufficient, meat raising and eating farms? Putting myself in that farmer's place, I would say that you're replacing something when you feed and take care of an animal. When its my responsibility like that, I don't think its right to kill it. So...my train of thought has brought me to the conclusion that I don't think I'd feel right farming meat, but hunting it in a sustainable environment (native people before the arrival of other "civilized" cultures comes to mind) is something that I would agree with.
Anyway, the most stirring argument for vegetarianism I've heard is udara's post. Thanks udara, it provoked the train of thought I just wrote out above. I believe in the intelligence and emotions of animals, but I've never extended that thought into the influences they can have on us. Too often we humans put ourselves on a pedaestal far and above the rest of the world.
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Emily
连接： Mar 16, 2004
邮件 10
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国家：United States
Province/State: Virginia
城市: Charlottesville
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Re: animal cruelty
April 28, 2004 - 08:09 AM
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hey toez, its cool that u are interested in this thread. sorry i didnt write back earlier (i wuz on vacation). hey, i hope u decide to go vegetarian, cuz youll save lives if u do.
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Christi R.
连接： Apr 26, 2004
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性别和年龄： 女性, 21
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Re: animal cruelty
May 9, 2004 - 10:09 AM
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My father actually used to work in a slaughterhouse when he was in his twenties so he knows from first-hand experience what the animals go through and he relayed most of his knowledge to me. In the slaughterhouse he worked in, the cattle (in this case) were treated rather humanely. When I say that, I mean they died quickly, before they were skinned and "gutted." There was one instance, however, where the cow was not shot in the exact place necessary to kill it and it was skinned alive. So yes, it does happen. I don't know much about bigger, more commercialized slaughterhouses, but I wouldn't doubt that they were less caring about how their animals were treated and killed.
I think vegetarianism is a good personal choice to reassure yourself that you're not helping with the inhumane treatment of animals to prepare them for human consumption. I don't think, however, that it would put the industry out of business. Maybe if more people were made aware and responded to this issue, there would be a better chance to help put the people who don't have enough respect for animals in the spotlight and end cruelty in profit-hungry farms.
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Lori L.
连接： Jul 5, 2004
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性别和年龄： 女性, 22
国家：Canada
Province/State: Ontario
城市: Toronto
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Re: animal cruelty
July 5, 2004 - 06:05 AM
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If you go to peta.org, you can watch their "Meet Your MEat" video and lots of other videos. You can also read some articles they have. The bottom line is that not all of the animals are humanely killed and sometimes they're skinned and whatever-ed alive, as some people have already said.
Farmers and other people treat them like inanimate objects that can't feel pain and that are only a commodity. It's horrible and wrong and whenever people buy a meat product, they're supporting their actions.
Toez -- I'm a vegetarian and i the main reason why i don't eat meat is because i don't believe that an animal should have to suffer and die so that i can have a meal, especially when my survival doesn't depend on it and when there's so much other stuff that i can have instead. Also, the whole meat industry is disgusting. They literally grow and harvest animals and then package them in exchange for money. This is not natural. We used to go hunting for the animals ourselves because it was essential for our survival, AND nobody was getting rich off it.
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Udara
连接： Dec 10, 2003
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性别和年龄： 男性, 25
国家：Sri Lanka
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Re: animal cruelty
July 5, 2004 - 06:29 AM
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SweetSagittarian, share more of your experience gained
from father's work.
Great stuff!
Udara
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Ime Effiong N.
连接： Jul 18, 2004
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国家：Nigeria
Province/State: Lagos
城市: Lagos
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Animal Refugees!
August 16, 2004 - 01:08 AM
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In line with this months theme at TIG which focuses on refugees I will like to draw our attention to displacement of animals from there natural habitations by man. These are refugees in their own right. In Nigeria where I live oil companies that engage in oil exploration activities end up polluting the waters making it unfit for both the aquatic animals and the local people in these areas. Hence, these animals have been force out of their natural habitation by no one but us. Just as we are all campaigning for the save return of refugees to their homelands lets not forget these animals that are homeless and now live in "exile".
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Jackie Elston
连接： Jul 29, 2004
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性别和年龄： 女性, 23
国家：United States
Province/State: California
城市: Folsom
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Re: animal cruelty
September 15, 2004 - 07:10 AM
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I'm reading this book called "Fast Food Nation" by Eric Schlosser. It describes how the animals we eat are treated, what goes on in the slaughterhouses, the gross stuff in the meat, the injuries and abuses of many slaughterhouse employees, and various other information about fast food. It's really quite disturbing to know what those meat packing companies try to keep secret. Since I started reading it I have eaten a lot less meat, although I have to admit there are times when I crave a big, juicy steak. Anyway I thought you guys might be interested in reading it, and maybe if you are thinking about becoming a vegetarian it will help give you a push in that direction.
I wish we applied Native American values to the way we use animals. Instead of taking the best cuts of meat and throwing away the rest we should use all of it. If they could find a use for every part of the body I'm sure we could if we really wanted to.
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I'm surprised animal testing hasn't come up in this thread yet. In my opinion cosmetic animal testing is the worst form of animal cruelty. Scientists have absolutely no right to torture innocent, helpless animals just so we can test out some new mascara or toothpaste. I'm not going to get into detail about the tests that are conducted but if you want info go to a search engine and type the keywords "draize test" and "LD50 test". Here is a list of companies that do and don't test their products on animals:
http://www.caringconsumer.com/searchcompany.html
If you aren't sure just look at the label. If they don't test on animals they will say so. But be aware that some of the companies that don't use animal testing are owned by larger corporations that do. For example, Herbal Essences doesn't use animals for their research, but Clairol does. The only way to stop animal testing is to boycott those evil animal abusing companies, and educate those that are unaware of what goes on in the labs.
Boo for animal cruelty.
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Brian
连接： Jan 22, 2004
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性别和年龄： 男性, 37
国家：United States
Province/State: North Carolina
城市: Raleigh
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Re: animal cruelty
September 15, 2004 - 07:54 AM
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SilentSorceress I went through something similar after some Hindu friends of mine told me about slaughter houses. I was meat-free for about 6 months...then it started with pepperoni pizza, then I fell off the wagon. I'm still trying to go meatless but I'm "off the wagon" again right now. It's worse than trying to quit smoking!
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Danny Sweeney
连接： Mar 22, 2004
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性别和年龄： 男性, 23
国家：United Kingdom
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Re: animal cruelty
September 16, 2004 - 02:55 AM
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I do get why some people are vegitarian and have often thought about doing it myself.
But whne there are people in the world who don't see food from one day to the next i think those of use who are fortunate to have a wide choice of foods shouldn't be half so picky over what we eat.
There is a food chain and humans are for the moment at the top - everything in nature eats something else to make it's self grow - it's the way of the world. Humans are designed to eat both meat and plants - look at the way our teeth are.
I don't agree with cruelty to animals and i am careful to make sure that i know where myu food comes from and what conditions it's lived (and died) in.
I won't eat foods which are prepared with a thought out degree of cruelty - veal, frou grais (exploded goose liver pate) - things like that.
There is also the issue of minerals and things like that which can't be got from just eat veg and meat substitutes.
(This isn't an attack on vegitarian beliefs - i have great respect for people with that degree of self control)
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Jackie Elston
连接： Jul 29, 2004
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Re: animal cruelty
September 16, 2004 - 07:01 AM
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I know what you mean, Brian. Seriously, cigarettes are surprizingly easier to quit than meat. I quit smoking cold turkey 9 months ago, with very little temptation to light up again. But it's so hard to stop eating meat. Speaking of cold turkey a sandwich sounds really good right now. Where did that saying come from anyway? What the hell does quitting something abruptly have to do with cold turkey?
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Brian
连接： Jan 22, 2004
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国家：United States
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Re: animal cruelty
September 16, 2004 - 07:45 AM
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SilentSorceress here you go: http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/20030128.html
I knew it had something to do with heroin adicts but I didn't know why exactly. I never smoked heavily to begin with, so my quiting smoking was an anoying "one-a-day" lingering thing that just wouldn't fall off! Another thing is my fiancee is Puerto Rican and she likes a lot of meat dishes. She's trying with me to eat less meat but it's tough...no pun intended. ; )
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Jackie Elston
连接： Jul 29, 2004
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Re: animal cruelty
September 17, 2004 - 05:51 AM
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I agree with you about not eating veal Lone-Wolf. When I first found out what it was I was shocked and really upset. I don't get how anyone could eat it knowing how those poor calves are treated. It should be illegal. We should have laws saying you have to treat your animals humanely and allow them to live naturally, as well as making sure their deaths are quick and painless.
What is frou grais? You said it's exploded goose liver or something but I don't know what you mean by that. Are you saying they kill the goose by exploding its liver? Cuz that's horrible. Well whatever it is it sounds bad.
Thanks, BrianK for digging up that article. I had no idea quitting "cold turkey" was linked to herion. And I didn't know that herion withdrawl affected people like that. It doesn't sound pleasant.
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Brian
连接： Jan 22, 2004
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性别和年龄： 男性, 37
国家：United States
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Re: animal cruelty
September 17, 2004 - 07:56 AM
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SS those withdrawals are really bad. I used to see my friend's dad (they were Hindu at the time and the ones who got me to stop eating meat for a while) go through that several times. It's not something you would even wish on an enemy. He eventually quit for good though. : )
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Danny Sweeney
连接： Mar 22, 2004
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性别和年龄： 男性, 23
国家：United Kingdom
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Re: animal cruelty
September 17, 2004 - 09:12 AM
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Originally posted by SilentSorceress
Are you saying they kill the goose by exploding its liver?
To my understanding that is exactly how it's done.
(My spelling is really bad - it's a french thing that is expensive)
When i was in france wee drove past a loads of farms where thats what was awaiting the geese.
The restaurtant i used to work in also served it - but we did have a debate over the moral issues of it - not that it did much.
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Jackie Elston
连接： Jul 29, 2004
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Re: animal cruelty
September 18, 2004 - 06:39 AM
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How can those people live with themselves? That's gotta be one of the most painful deaths I can think of. And I don't see how that could make the goose taste any better, and even if it does it's cruel and unnecessary. What makes people think they have the right to treat other animals like that? Just because we're smarter than most of them doesn't make us superior to them. I hate those pricks. We should explode their livers.
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