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Yara Kassem
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Sheikh Yassin murdered
March 22, 2004 - 05:48 AM
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I just knew about those terrible news this morning as I got to the office,Sheikh Yassin's horrible death..
He was murdered just after he finished the dawn's prayers...
"Israeli helicopter gunships fired missiles at Yasin as he left a mosque after dawn prayers, killing the Hamas leader and at least six other people.
One witness who lives near the mosque told reporters what happened moments after the first explosion.
"I looked to see where Shaikh Ahmad Yasin was," he said. "He was lying on the ground and his chair was destroyed. People there darted left and right. Then another two missiles landed."
Yasin's body was evacuated to Gaza City's al-Shifa hospital.
At least nine people died in the attack including at least two of Yasin's bodyguards. Ten more were wounded.
Yasin's two sons were moderately hurt.
The Israeli army later admitted it had carried out the killings."
AlJazeera new website
I'm speechless I don't really know what to say,But I'm terribly shocked...
Is it OK to the international community to kill people during their daily lives???Can't anyone see how is it turning to an unbearable mess in the occupied territories???
The Arab world is just turning to an exploding bomb!!!!!
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Yara Kassem
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Re: Sheikh Yassin murdered
March 22, 2004 - 02:30 AM
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Adeyemi,
Your last post brought some rays of light to me today,Yes it brought me some hope as I'm just drowning in Anger and frustration...
What happened today is completely unacceptable...This is absolute terrorism what they're doing to us in Palestine,and they just never stop claiming that they're fighting our terrorism,we the arabs...
I'm glad those five teenagers had the courage to tell the difference between occupation and fighting terrorism,cz what I've seen today and all these days is absolute terrorism...
I just still can't beleive that they're doing that obviously easily and infront of all people,Murdering a leader infront of the mosque by airstrikes???Oh my god???I just can't find the proper words to explain that horrible feeling of humiliation,anger and frustration...
Through a silly conversation with someone,he said so why are you sad anyway,the guy wasn't a peacemaker..Well,Bush is a terrorist from my point of views but if he gets murdered in such a unhuman way,wouldn't it be an atrocity???wouldn't it be terrible and inhuman???
And now,I'm really worried about what will happen next???
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Sheikh Yassin murdered
March 22, 2004 - 03:03 AM
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Well, obviously you guys are angry.
I would simply remind you of this - last week a Hamas suicide bomber killed 11 Israelis in Ashdod.
That too was a wanton act of murder - I don't hear anyone upset about that. Peace will come when each side cares about lives lost on the other.
These people in Ashdod were reading books on the beach and a Hamas member killed them.
What is more they were trying to find tanks of highly flammible gas stored in the port so they could kill many more people - maybe hundreds. That was Hamas.
If you don't think the Israelis are going to respond your nuts. Of course it was the IDF - no one is disputing that - but Yassin was the head of an organization that has been involved in the deaths of hundreds of Isreali civilians - murdering them in the most callous way.
Violence begets violence - and this works both ways. If Hamas starts another wave of violence - then I fear for the Palestinians as well as the Israelis - because the Israelis are going to respond - a matters will be worse.
Truly the young generation must find peace. The older generation - like Yassin, like Sharon, like Arafat - these people will continue to try and kill eachother.
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Xiomara
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Re: Sheikh Yassin murdered
March 22, 2004 - 04:04 AM
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it just seems like an endless circle of violence!!
there will almost certainly be retaliation for this assassination, then the israelis will retaliate,...
when will we see that more violence will not solve anything, it will only cause more problems for innocent civilian victems on both the israeli & palestinian sides
"don't you let the system make you kill your brother man"
Peace
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Yara Kassem
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Re: Sheikh Yassin murdered
March 22, 2004 - 04:20 AM
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Well Luke,
I'm glad we're discussing again,but I hoped we'd be sharing a nicer discussion than this one..
And Yes,We're angry...Atleast I'm talking about myself now...
Just try to put yourself in my shoes,and imagine yourself while going in the morning to work and open the news website and see the body of this man ( who is supposed to be a leader-regardless being terrorist or not),killed that way infront of a religious place,so easily,so obviously and infront of everyone...what will you do???Don't tell me you wouldn't get angry???
Ofcourse you know I'm not supporting killing civilians,I guess we've allready talked in such an issue before and we also talked that the old generation should quit wether they are arabs or Israelis,being replaced by moderates...But not that way,Luke...This is so humiliating,so painfull and so disgusting...
Well,you guys were complaining before of that way of violence and here you are practising it again...Isn't it terrorism??Or terrorism is only to describe Arabs these days???
Violence brings nothing but violence!!!!You're absolutely right,but who started the violence???Isn't it the Israelis???I'm not defending ofcourse killing any civilians,it's against my prinicipals,but anyone would see that what happened today is absolutely inacceptable..
We've previously discussed this issue of the Arab-Israeli conflict and to some extent i liked your views and your way of dealing with the whole things ( regardless some of the tensed discussions we've had) but at the end both of us agreed to not to accept that none sense violence,and ofcourse we've been upset at the act of killing civilians,but as i said this act precisely is not acceptable...I know you understand our anger,you would if you tried to imagine our situations...
Thanks
Yara Kassem
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Cicero
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Re: Sheikh Yassin murdered
March 22, 2004 - 04:53 AM
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I, being born by a Pal mother, refugee from a occupied teritory (Pal 48) i officially condone this act of terorism against a respected member of Palestinian nation. This will do only bad things. Revenge at first, and re-revenge next and so on.
My world view is to be nonviolent, but i still try to get from point A (where i am now) and point B (where i want to be). As this still awaits my fellow palestinian people. We will get there. Journey is on, and there is going to be long walk, as we are taking detours. Izrael itself is not a peace partner as we cannot have any. Palestine itself and people joined under its flag are in need of assistance from whole arab world and further.
ARABS! Show your Loyality and make that Loyality materialise itself by making Palestine a GOOD reality. You have what Palestine needs, and Palestine has what you need.
With sincere respect - Ali (Katulus) al Kayser
Ave Futuria
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Sheikh Yassin murdered
March 22, 2004 - 05:53 AM
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Kaiser - I think the world you were looking for was condemn.
The point I was making is that Yassin ran an organization that was responsible for killing 11 Israelis in just the previous week alone.
I don't remember you guys even blinking when this happened
- but now Israel has retaliated againt the head of the organization which committed any number of terrorist acts where hundreds of random civilians were killed - and I'm supposed to feel sorry for him?
No, I don't - he trafficed in murder - and so he was murdered - as the saying goes - "Live by the sword, die by the sword"
my problem with it is simply that it will escalate the conflict even further - that much more violence is down the road as a result.
While the IDF may have satosfied Israel's desire for revenge on Hamas - it did not make them any safer, and it didn't make the situation any closer to peace.
I agree that this is not the way to go about changing leadership. Because in changing leadership it is not simply a matter of finding a new person - it is about the people choosing a new direction.
When you bump off the Hamas leadership - there is just going to be a new leader going the same direction as the old one.
So you really haven't accomplished anything. The objective is to try to change their direction. New leadership is required for a change in direction I think - but when you kill a leader the people tend to romantisize his ideas and become more committed to his direction.
And yes - the Israelis certainly were public about it - I don't know if its because that was the only time they could get a shot at him - or they were trying to make some kind of statement with it.
But here is the plain truth - so long as Israelis are being killed on buses on their way to work and in night clubs and cafe's - they will have no qualms about nailing Hamas leaders.
Personally - I think Yassin was involved in alot of shady dealings. I think he was supervising violence against Israeli civilians - I think he was a voice for violence, not peace - so I will not shed a tear at his passing.
Those who preach violence often find themselves victims of it.
I just wish Palestinians & Israelis could find another route to solving their problems instead of violence - because this is going to continue.
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Adeyemi Adisa
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May his soul rest in peace!
March 22, 2004 - 06:36 AM
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With symphaty and condolence, I heard the news of the Palestine spiritual leader and the circumstances surrounded his dealth; and I began wondering how on earth could peace be achieved in the occupied city of Gaza. To me, this is unjustified and uncalled for and I never thounght this dwill aid the peace process in the Middle East. From the look of things, Isreal has now become the "American" of the middle east by unlawfully occupying a sovereigh nation and killing its people in the name of terrorists. Should we continue holding our jaws and let everything continue like this? I think it is high time UN mandated Isreal to stop all these acts of terrorism. Un should let Isreal understand the fact that they can't just kill people unlawfully with their arms like that.
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Abdallah Diwan
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violnenvce gets more violence
March 22, 2004 - 07:06 AM
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this is a great loss for the Arab world and for our palastinians brothers , but now at least we know that violence will get more violence , lots of lands are taken and lots of life went to where it was created and i think it is why palastinians should fight for there lands and have there revenge cause the Isrealies will never stop , and more viloence doesn't have a respond exept more violence from the other side.
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Yara Kassem
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Re: Sheikh Yassin murdered
March 22, 2004 - 07:31 AM
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I guess that's what the Israeli extremism want,to provoque the palestinians and that's how they just stop the weak and slow peace process...and here we go again with the none ending circle of violence..
What happened today is really disgusting,beside that it's the Sheikh Yassin and I beleive that killing Yassin is even worse than killing Arafat,but it's that disgusting way of getting rid of the man...
Now all the arab streets are angry,here in cairo streets are full of protestations,shouts and threats...All the streets are closed by now...And as i said earlier the arab world is just turning to an exploding bomb,to a boiling mess..
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Adeyemi Adisa
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Re: Sheikh Yassin murdered
March 22, 2004 - 11:04 AM
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It's wonderful that many of the Israelis know that what their political leaders are doing in the Gaza city is occupation. I read with great surprise on today's UK broadsheet "The Guardian" that five Isreal teenagers were sentenced for refusing to be part of Israeli Defence Force (that surely carried out the killing of Sheikh Yassin).
According to the paper, these five teenagers refused to join Israeli army's activities in Gaza because they see it as occupation rather than fighting against terrorist. The paper said one of the teenagers said: "we're being punished for saying the word occupation. ...so here I say it again; occupation, occupation, occupation. They committed war crimes and they expect us to keep silent, but we will not silent. We will speak out our against occupation even when we pay a price."
Sharon probably may think that he has sent Yasin to Hell today, but in a real sense this may turn to be the beginning of "crucial attacks".
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Injy
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Re: Sheikh Yassin murdered
March 23, 2004 - 06:03 AM
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Luke (But here is the plain truth - so long as Israelis are being killed on buses on their way to work and in night clubs and cafe's - they will have no qualms about nailing Hamas leaders)... ... ...
But here is the plain truth - so long as Palestinians are being killed in their houses, in their fields, in their work places, in their schools, in their universities and in their hospitals - they will have no qualms about nailing the Israeli Occupied Forces.
Palestinians are as much Human Beings as Israelis.
As much the Israeli blood is of so much value to its people, the Palestinian blood is of so much value to its people.
You are talking about killing 11 Israelis last week, what about the daily killing of Palestinian civilians and children??? What about the miming of thousands of Palestinans??
Get it logical, do not expect to come to my place, taking my house, killing my husband, miming my elder son, making my daughter an orphange, building a wall to separate me from my family, demolishing my fields, and it will be FINE with me, and I will FORGIVE, and think you mean well??
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Sheikh Yassin murdered
March 23, 2004 - 06:36 AM
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Injy I agree with you - obviously there is a war going on.
My point is that Yassin and Hamas declaired war on Israel - so the Israelis treated Yassin like an enemy and killed him. What I don't understand is what seems so unfair.
If you are a leader of an organization at war - then your life is at risk. Your enemy is going to try to kill you just as surely as you try to kill them.
These calls that it is unfair just don't make any sense to me - Yassin was not a civilian he was an enemy combatant and a legitimate target.
I have a problem with civilians being killed in any unneccisary way. I do not support Sharon or the oppression he has engaged in.
That said I don't like Arafat much either and Yassin was supervising attacks on Israeli civilians.
As far as whose blood is thicker - well Palestinians clearly care more about Palestinain blood - and Israelis care more about Israeli blood.
I mentioned the 11 Israelis who died last week because - well frankly you should care. If you want people to care about Palestinian civilian deaths - then you must have compassion for Israeli civilian deaths. The fact that Yassin was in the bussiness of murdering Israeli civilians - to my mind makes him a completely legitimate target.
At some level - I expect that Hamas is trying to kill Sharon right now. If they got him I would not be personally offended - its war.
And therein lies the problem - its a war. Peace seems very difficult to find. Both sides are contributing to the problem, feeding the conflict.
The radicals have run away with the situation.
Ultimately Israel's position is "police the terrorism or we'll police it for you." This is very difficult for Palestinians to do. But they are going to have to do it - if they want Israel to leave them alone - they are going to have to make sure that Hamas leaves Israel alone.
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Injy
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Re: Sheikh Yassin murdered
March 23, 2004 - 07:15 AM
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Luke...
*Excellent Point and full agreement on it (If you want people to care about Palestinian civilian deaths - then you must have compassion for Israeli civilian deaths). So, if I started to have that compassion for the 11 Israeli civilians killed last week, that means that you have the compassion, for example as there are so much deaths of the plaestinians, for the deaths of at least 9 people and at least the wounding of 10 others during the Israeli assissination of Sheikh Yassin????
*(These calls that it is unfair just don't make any sense
to me)... It does not make sense to you, but it does make
sense of millions of others wroldwide and to all the world
leaders who condemned it.
*Very promising point you are aware that Sharon is oppressing the Palestinians (I do not support Sharon or the oppression he has engaged in)... So what do you expect as a result of oppression? His continous policy of oppressing the Palestianins, and firstly provoking the Intifada to spark, sounds a good ground for them to turn themselves into BOMBS.
Oppression...Leads To...Anger...More Oppression...Leads
To...Hatred...More Oppression...Leads To...BOMBS
Well, let`s try to make peace among one another by having some mutual understanding and cultural dialogue. I have many times wanted to ask you that, but it seems that it always slips my mind. Could you please tell me more about the Jewish religion, the English terminology for it slips my mind now I am sorry, you know as muslims we believe in Tawara and Moses of course and the traits of a Jewish person? I really would like to know more and not allow myself to be brainwashed by any source of Media. Thank you, you can post a separate discussion thread.
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Sheikh Yassin murdered
March 23, 2004 - 08:35 AM
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Yes, I do have compassion for the innocents in the area - not Yassins body guards, but everyone else.
The worlds leaders who condemned it said the politically expedient thing - none of them are going to do anything about it.
What they disagreed with was upsetting the Arabs - who many are wary of setting off. Yassin was not their problem - he was Israel's problem.
Hamas has killed alot of innocent Israelis - thats the point. I find it hard to find compassion for a man who encouraged alot of young kids to strap bombs to themselves - sneak into Israel - and blow themselves up around as many civilians as possible.
I certainly didn't see him as a factor for peace - Yassin was a factor for war - and I fear he will remain such in death.
And you must understand why Sharon was elected - because Israelis were concerned with another Intifadda - so they elected military leadership. Thats what people do in times of war - they elect wartime presidents.
Jews have been under attack since before 1948. When they first got there most of the land was empty, but from the beginning the Arabs didn't want to share it. In 1948 when they declared statehood every arab nation around it tried to invade.
The Israelis won. Then in 67' there was another attempt at invasion, same result, except Israel decided to expand. Finally 73' and here we go again.
Arafat lead any number of Intifaddas in the interim. The Israelis have been under perpetual attack for 50 years, and these are people, who before that went through the Hollocaust. I think they are tired of being hit.
I guess I just beleive at a fundamental level that Israel has the right to defend herself. Taking out Yassin, who killed Isrealis, was defense. I don't agree with their offensive policies - but the reason Israel is going on offense is because people are fed up with terrorism, they are fed up with being attacked.
Israel doesn't have any fundamental problem coming to peace with peaceful neighbors - Egypt and Jordan are at peace with Israel - and their people are not threatened by it. Syria and Lebenon are fighting gurilla wars with Israel - and so is Palestine - so there is no peace.
The best way to get Israel to stop acting agressively is to leave them alone. That is what the wall is about - its a big sign that reads "leave me alone".
In terms of being Jewish, I'm not quite sure what you want to know. Most Jews today are pretty secular, they value the traditions and pratices of religion as a way to communicate with their past, but they tend to put alot of value on secular education, more than religious education.
They have that in common with Americans - we're all proud of Sandy Kofax, Albert Einstein, and Stanley Kubrick. I think most Jews are essentially liberal, leaning toward progressive social ideas. Most American Jews are Democrates, something like 70% vote democrats in presidential elections - so it means that most American Jews oppose Bush. Most will vote for Kerry - I will.
I work in the media - but most of the media is not Jewish, alot is - but don't beleive people when they tell you its like 80% because its not - probably more like 30%.
I've spent about 6 months in Israel, I thinks its an amazing place. The people were deep, affectionate, and somehow sad.
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