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Emilio Canovai
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Radical Islam
February 19, 2004 - 09:01 AM
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x
This post was edited on: 2011-08-03 at 11:21 AM by: Emilio Canovai
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Cicero
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Re: Radical Islam
February 19, 2004 - 01:37 AM
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All the story beging with Wahabbi movement in saudi arabia in 1700's. It is very radical islamic denomination and anti-everything. The last one to give aditional boost to the movement was Abdullah Azzam, radical islamist, which just happend to be university teacher, on university where Osama bin laden was also studying. There goe Osama his inspiration. Soviet invasion in Afghanistan only cemented his beleifs. With substantional US aid he financed first jihadi groupings to fight against soviets. He also got free, quality guerilla training from cia. After they eventually managed to defeat Soviets, hey assumed they achieved if from God's will and so on. That gave them huge self confidence boost to continue jihad against others. Some time Osama spends leading the Bin Laden group (construction company). At 1991 Iraq invasion of Quwait, he sees american troops deployed on Saudi soil. BLASPHEMY! OUTRAGE he screams, Saudi have let "infidels" on holy ground etc... He gets kicked out and must go hiding to other places. There is Sudan, he goes there and creates himself The Base (Al Qaeda). Now the fun starts. Bombings here and there. After some time he worsens relations with sudanesa and this means another move. To Afghanistan, where he sees oportunity to make him a colony. With Taliban movement - dunn know if he liked what they did or no - he sure gets good friend with them. He opens training grounds in city of Khost and elsewhere. After twin embassy bombings in Africa in 1998, Clinton had it and he orders some facilities to be bombed. No result. Osama is still active. He lamost suceeds to sink an USS Cole. After 9 / 11 he really went too far and now its time to settle scores. Americans help out Northern alliance, which is mad at Qaeda and taleban coz they killed their hero to defeat them. They do that. Taleban flee and they are betraying one another. Al Qaeda is more lucky. They disperse and regroup.
Osama is still "out there". Maybe yes, maybe not.
He assumes that only thru terorism they will achieve victory as direct frontal attack wolud mean eradication.
They want to create a worldwide state alike Taleban or Saudi style. Even Iran and Shiites r on black list.
Thats all for now.
Ave Futuria
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Brian Smith
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Re: Radical Islam
February 19, 2004 - 11:00 AM
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Emilio,
could you post the source of your stats. And remember that Terrorist is a relative term...
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Cicero
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Re: Radical Islam
February 27, 2004 - 01:34 AM
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Quite probably.
What is the final result enemy wants to do ? Destroy oponent. Destroying his society (any way) is certainly that.
Some arabs thought Taliban were implants, financed by CIA, to smear general moslim image, but thats way low in "conspiracy theory" probability.
Ave Futuria
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Lili
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re:question
February 27, 2004 - 10:30 AM
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It seems to be the question prevalent on everybodies mind.
Please provide the stats.
Wahabism though extreme was against the idea of enforced domination.just wait untill all noses are in the same direction.
wahabism+qutb from Egypt threw this idea in the wind and wanted forcefull sharia right now.As in Taliban.
This was the first time that all steam ran out of the proud undefeated Afghan people.
Woman and kids are the basics of society. Attack those and the whole society will fall apart.
Maybe that could be a new definition of terrorism?
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Ansari, Omar Mansoor
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Re: Radical Islam
March 17, 2004 - 01:24 AM
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If terrorism is killing the innocent citizens of this glob, and if terrorism is taking the souls of innocent children, women and men then let’s count those died last year (2003), see who the beges terrorist is.
Why are people not talking about those killing in a well organized manner, whey you guys never mention the “state terrorism?”
With the terrorists claiming to be Muslims: the Muslims have condemned them and their actions (Islam itself condemns it). But who has the courage to condemn the “state terrorists”?
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Radical Islam
March 17, 2004 - 02:00 AM
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Bin Laden is a figure head - I hear this alot from Muslims "they are looking for just one man?" - no he is the head of an organization - at this point more of a movement. Bin Laden has symbolic value but I doubt he has much to do with the logistics of Al QEADA any more.
Afghanistan was about taking out the training camps, capturing the leadership and finding as much info as possible.
Injy, I think you do raise an interesting point - Islam/Muslims in general are being grouped in with terrorism. Of course I don't think you are a terrorist - don't be silly.
But, think about how terrorism is effecting Muslims - it is drawing them into conflicts that the average muslim then has to fight. The terrorists have picked a fight with the west - and who pays the price? The average muslim. You are not a terrorist, but you have to fight their battles.
I think Muslims need to deal with the terrorists in their midst. They need to stop giving it a wink and a nudge because it hurts Muslims.
Right now do you reolize that Muslims are fighting with Christians, Jews, and Hindus? Each of these groups is only fighting with muslims. And it is terrorists who are sparking these conflicts.
I think you, and Muslims world wide should find these criminals living in your country and bring them to justice - that way the vast majority can live in peace and you will not be drawn into any more losing conflicts.
So long as the west feels threatened by Islamic terrorism - this conflict will continue. If you guys crack down on terrorism, then the west is going to back off - so get proactive.
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Cicero
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Re: Radical Islam
March 17, 2004 - 02:15 AM
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Injy : This is all politics and especially quest for rulership.
Everybody knows that in times of globalisation, the power of rulership turns to just one, preferrably economically strong individual - not necessary politician. (Bill Gates?)
To prevent that to happen they first need to tear humanity into several pieces, even better if they make them to hate one another. And then each politician can take leadership of his group. As in old times: To keep urself on top u need to make sure ur opponents fight off one another (and not you).
Probably thats why, whenever US administration gets into "heavy troubles" in home politics, next day bombs fell on country 10.000. km away.
It is confirmed fact, that before they conquered Afghanistan, the taliban movement got up to 1 billion in cash support from side of one of american oil companies - because Taliban were to "allow" the company to build pipeline across their country - and be protected at same time.
Anyway i wolud like to be a politician, but i know its best that i am not. Politics would make me into a very dangerous man.
Ave Futuria
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KarlS
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Re: Radical Islam
March 17, 2004 - 07:04 AM
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For those of you who have cable TV, there is a good documentary on the Discovery/Times Channel entitled
"Reinventing the Taliban" by courageous Pakistani journalist Sharmeen Obaid, who herself is a Progressive Muslim, and not a radical fundamentalist. She went to a northern province of Pakistan where a group called the MMA is seeking control, and wanting a repressive social system similar to the nightmare that the Taliban foisted on the Afghani populace, especially the women there. The danger in this situation is obvious, when one considers Pakistan's weaponry possibly falling into extremist hands. I found the program to be well done and very informative. I think you will as well. Hopefully some of you will have the opportunity to view the broadcast...
Karl S.
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Injy
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Re: Radical Islam
March 17, 2004 - 10:37 AM
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Al Salamo Alikom,
*so emilio 16, where is your authentic resource for your voluntary statistics????? And it would be useful if you can help me define the word (terrorism) also, since I am muslim so I might be included in your sweeping generalisations, so it would be great to enlighten me?
*Kaiser... Thanks for the information about the Wahabi, I did not really know so much about them. But, what I cannot really understand with all that claimed American military power, endless striking of Afghanistan during the war on it, endless intelligence missions everywhere in Afghanisatn, and still they cannot find that damn Osama Bin Laden? It is just one person, why is it so difficult to catch him? Do you think that Peace is going to be restored after capturing that damn person? Thanks to him, so much hatred has been developed among the Mulim Side and the Western Side, and the both sides seem to me as reaching a complete deadlock. The West will not easily forgive the deaths of their innocent souls, and the muslims will not easily forgive the deaths of their innocent souls as well as the millions of moderate muslims who have been attacked, insulted, disgraced, accused of all crimes, and considered to be terrorists in a position of defending themselves all the time, because they happen to embrace the same religion , which that damn person and the likes of him claim they are citing its verses and defending it... I wonder????????????
*twoworld... could you please elaborate more on the point of (just wait untill all noses are in the same direction. wahabism+qutb from Egypt threw this idea in the wind and wanted forcefull sharia right now). Thanks
Salamo Alikom,
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Injy
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emilio16
March 20, 2004 - 08:52 AM
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Are you quotating some fairy tales????????
Oppppssssss, sorry guys, I mistakingly killed and injured over a 10,402 Iraqis.
http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries...5256E5A0076DEF7
Oppppssssss, sporry guys, I mistakingly killed and injured a countless numbers of Palestinian on a daily basis. Check out any news agency and you will know for yourself.
Speaking of the Palestinian example here does not mean that I am defending the Militants for their killings of the Israeli civilians.
But that is really silly to consider all these thousands innocent souls killed to be just an accident or a mistake.
Serious Problem someone is facing here....................
A more reading is needed
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Radical Islam
March 22, 2004 - 01:50 AM
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it was between 5 & 10 thousand.
As far as Israel - I think decades of being attacked by its neighbors has made them a bit paranoid.
Remember at this point that Egypt, Syria, Soudi Arabia, Iraq, Jordan - all these countries have tried to invade Israel at one time or another.
But I agree with Emelio in that - Israel is fighting this like a conventional war - they are aiming for their enemies leadership and trying (all be it not hard enough) to avoid civilian casualty.
Today is an example - Israel didn't blindly airstrike Gaza - they killed the head of Hamas. This is not terrorism - why? Because Yassin was the head of Hamas - an organization that was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of Israeli civilians.
Frankly if Hamas responded by assasinating Sharon - this would not be terrorism either - this is warfare.
But that is not how they are going to respond - instead Hamas is going to try to kill as many Israeli civilians as possible. They will blow up a few buses - kill a few innocent people - that is terrorism.
Israel is encouraging terrorism through its oppressive attitude - but that is still no excuse for putting a bomb on a 10 year olds back and sending him into Israel to detonate.
Hamas tried to do that last week.
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Ansari, Omar Mansoor
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Re: Radical Islam
March 22, 2004 - 02:57 AM
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Originally posted by luke
it was between 5 & 10 thousand.
do u mean 5-10 thousand people are nothing?
How about 300000 people killed in afghanistan?
Originally posted by luke
Today is an example - Israel didn't blindly airstrike Gaza - they killed the head of Hamas. This is not terrorism - why? Because Yassin was the head of Hamas - an organization that was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of Israeli civilians.
Frankly if Hamas responded by assasinating Sharon - this would not be terrorism either - this is warfare.
What do you call a blind airstrike? if your enemy is in a croud of 10000 inocent ppl (let say hiding there) do u have to right to bomb all of them for that one person?
Sheron kills Yasin - Yasin kills Sheron. Israel kill Phalastini civilians - Hamas kill Israeli civilian. i kill you - you kill me........
this is called life... this is called civilization and this is what the UN calls humanity... all bullshit
QUOTE]Originally posted by luke
But that is not how they are going to respond - instead Hamas is going to try to kill as many Israeli civilians as possible. They will blow up a few buses - kill a few innocent people - that is terrorism.
[/QUOTE]
this is what Israel do too, dont yo know?
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Radical Islam
March 22, 2004 - 05:23 AM
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Obviously it was not a blind airstrike - they hit Yassin - so they obviously had a pretty good idea of what they were aiming for.
In terms of Afghanistan - we had to go in there and take out the Al Qaeda who were plotting, training, recruiting, and arming themselves. I am sorry if innocents were hurt in this process - but Al Qaeda is our enemy and we are going to destroy that organization - and if you are a member of it - watch out.
Let me ask you a question - do you think the Pakastanis have the right to be fighting Al Qaeda in northern Pakistan as they are now? There is no question that there will be some civilian casualties with the fierce firefight that is going on.
So perhaps the Paks should try to destroy the terrorists, because someone innocent might get hurt. Even though these Al Qaeda in northern Pakistan were essentially running a school on suicide bombing and the creation of improvised explosives and chemical weapons.
It seems clear to me that a terrorist training facility must be attacked, and if there is collateral damage - well lets try to minimize it as best we can - but we are going in there.
Humanity is not bullshit - it is just pushed aside often in war. The US is trying to deliver humanitarian aid to Afghanistan - the biggest killer in that country is hunger - and that is not the US's fault - we are trying to help in that regard. It is a big humanitarian problem and will require the assistance of many countries to pull it off.
Terrorism is jut barbaric - targeting a bunch of unarmed strangers - and seeking chaos in order to instill religious fundamentalism - that is evil.
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Abdallah Diwan
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Re: Radical Islam
March 22, 2004 - 05:42 AM
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lool ,
how did luke Know you are a qaaeda member Mula Omar ?
any way Luke watch up Omars tribe will get you if you hurt him lool . cool down boys . and try to develop more in your skils to get peace 
by the way i heard no peaopl in isreal was on the streets today , every one sooooo frightend to go to the street today . heheheh
And this is the start of a Nightmare if there will not be a very true quick steps towards peace from the isrealy government .
this the only way for them to hide . Hamas will get them from there homes if they didnt make that quick move for peace now
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