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Matt Wolpert
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understanding Islam
February 17, 2004 - 02:49 AM
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I am not a religious person in any sense, but my family is protestant Christian, and I visited their church with them this past weekend. I was very disturbed by the pastor's sermon, and need the help of the TIG community.
In the sermon, he was talking about christianity as a world religion that was very tolerant, and then went on to talk about 'evil' groups who wanted to impose one system of ideas on the whole world. These groups, according to him, included Nazis, Communists, racists, and Islam. He went on to say that the ideal period in history for all muslims was 6th century AD Arabia, and that all 'devout' Muslims wanted to impose 6th century Arabia on the whole world. He said that they all wanted to tear down all the skyscrapers because there were no skyscrapers back then.
I was fuming in my seat. Most upsetting to me was his ignorance, and his grouping of all Islam under the heading of terrorists. I tried to talk with him after the sermon, but was unable to. I am going to call him, I have his #, and confront him about his ignorant and malicious views, but want some ammunition to give force to my argument.
I do not know much about Islam, and want to be able to speak about this intelligently, so I am asking for information, suggestions and advice.
What was especially worrisome to me is the influence this man has over the teenagers in the congregation. Most youth take the words of elders as fact, and I feel it is my responsibility to make sure this does not continue, because youth hold the greatest capacity for changing things.
I encourage all members of TIG to speak out when they see intolerance in their communities. The only way to stop it is to call it out, discuss it, and eventually, hopefully, understanding will come.
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Cicero
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Re: understanding Islam
February 17, 2004 - 01:27 AM
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Trust me man, in saudi arabia they are preaching evem more dangerous words. But there people arent so aware what they are hearing. For them there is not doubt in what preacher is saying. That is the unfortunate difference between usa and ksa.
Ave Futuria
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: understanding Islam
February 17, 2004 - 05:08 AM
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Kiaser - I agree with you - but 2 wrongs don't make a right. The point is that the preaching of hatred must be opposed where ever is exists. And Doctor No - I think your knowledge of Islam is highly selective.
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Cicero
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Re: understanding Islam
February 17, 2004 - 05:12 AM
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Well these are both Abrahamian religions, thats why you get similar sense when hearing their outbreaks.
I assume if nothing positive gesture comes from BOTH sides we'll have a low intensity relgious war between these two religious groups, accompanied by social unrest.
Trust me. Human kind is not so good as ppl think it is. Expect bad, but be ready to emabrace positive outcomes in case they appear.
Ave Futuria
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r g
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Re: understanding Islam
February 17, 2004 - 08:49 AM
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The pastor was right in everything except for
* tearing down buildings
* grouping islam under the heading of terrorists
So what do you want to talk about with him?
You want to learn about Islam? I suggest you listen to both sides of the issue....those in favor of it, and those against it.
I am very knowledgable of Islam, though Im against it.
You might want to check my 7 Reasons for rejecting Islam.
http://www.uk-learning.net/t23418.html
P.S. Tolerance should be a two way street, dont you think? I tolerate ideas that are tolerant of me and other people in general.
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Cicero
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Re: understanding Islam
February 18, 2004 - 02:52 AM
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You bet i agree.
I mean, nobody is going to tell bad side of any of his possesions or ideas, since that would make him the one with bad taste and so on.
And people assume hat their ideas and ideals r best for everybody else - thats never true - but they continue to force them around, while ignoring others.
Ave Futuria
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Matt Wolpert
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Re: understanding Islam
February 18, 2004 - 03:37 AM
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Dr NO,
I've already listened to both sides of the argument, I was raised lutheran. This is not about rejecting one or the other religion as being right or wrong. What bothered me was the pastor grouping all of islam under the umbrella of terrorist fundamentalist radical Islam, and in doing so is perpetuating the ignorance and stereo-typing that is occuring against Islam in our nation.
Of course I realize that there are mullahs in arab countries who are doing the same thing as this preacher...That doesn't mean that we should be doing the same thing. Complete wrong direction. We must show Islam that in our country, they are accepted for who they are and what they believe.
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r g
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Re: understanding Islam
February 18, 2004 - 09:42 AM
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Originally posted by luke
And Doctor No - I think your knowledge of Islam is highly selective.
When it comes to religion EVERYBODY is selective. Those who are in favor of Islam will only tell you the better side of the religion. Those against Islam will MOSTLY tell you the WORST side of this religion.
That is why I advised Trapper to listen to both parties. So he could see the whole picture and decide for himself.
Agree?
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Cicero
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Re: understanding Islam
February 19, 2004 - 04:09 AM
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But i must admit it is time for Moslims, i mean Sunnis and especially Wahabbis to show some positive gestures towards the "West" <----- which they helped to form in past in Islamic golden era. They will have to do some positive gestures that we see its not only one way traffic which is going on.
Iran and Shiites in general done some openly positive gestures in past and in present.
Ave Futuria
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: understanding Islam
February 19, 2004 - 12:28 PM
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Exactly - what is with this being 'against' anything? It is an ancheint philosophy. There are positive aspects and negative ones. If you think it is inherently evil than you are exhibiting ignorance.
This is not about one religion being 'better' than another - this isn't the school yard.
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Aashikah
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ISLAM - Tolerable or Intolerable
March 3, 2004 - 04:20 AM
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Well i can certainly answer Luke & Kaiser's questions about Islam in an unbiased way. Firstly i was born Christian & have been Christian for 21 years, then i got married to a muslim. I am 23 years old now and have been married for 2 years. Coverting to Islam has been a major change for me in that there are lots of rules & regulations to live by. Being and open-minded and outspoken person myself, it was hard coming into an religion where the female is not necessarily heard. On learning about Islamic law the female is there to care for her husband & children, but in this day & age its quite hard just being a wife & mother. Women in general have more rights & are more educated & career orientated. Islam is a strong believer in family. Everything is done according your names sake and of course within the boundaries of Islam. Islam is not all that different from Christianity except of course where God/Allah is concerned. Christians, well sme anyways, see God & Jesus as one and the same whereas Muslims have it written that God has no son and that Jesus is one of the prophets that was sent out by Allah to spread the word. Yes Muslims believe that Islam is the way of life & therefore tend to be more aggressive where their religion is concerned. But it is absolutely wrong in categorizing every Muslim as being a terrorist. I agree that some of them can be extreme in demonstrating their faith and find it quite insane. I think that the youth should follow their hearts and minds and not what the older generation has to say because much of our discriminations stem from them. It is up to us to open the eyes of the world. Let them see that Islam & Christianity can live in harmony....that a mutual ground is there and that its just for us to set foot on it and make it work.
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Cicero
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Re: understanding Islam
March 4, 2004 - 01:29 AM
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We actually mean also other ways of living. Western way of life and that it is not "wrong" but it is just another way, based on individual and his rights.
And if u assume i am christian (?) i am not. I am Futurist and that is another way of living. More on that will be posted few minutes after i finish this post.
And i know how difficualt will be life in future, unless moslims stop certain moves. Todays world is ruled by moslims. Christian faith is a "virtual" one.
Ave Futuria (F.G.F)
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