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Joseph-Peter
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[Poll] What truth lies in the justification of the US war on Iraq.
February 8, 2004 - 06:58 AM
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The war is over, great, now what was the main purpose of going to war in the first place; for the fear that the iraq might be in possesion of WMDs. After search is it the all suspected regions, after overturning each and every spoon upside down, has US found any WMD in Iraq....NO!
Then people, one remains in no other position but wondering why US had to go to war with a tiny country like Iraq on unfounded suspicion. It has not only brought shame to the super power but has also leaves one with the question of what really did USA want from Iraq. Many warnings were laid by anti-iraq-war countries but still bush and his counterpart blair went ahead with forging a baseless war against iraq.
Help me understand, what base or justification can one give for the US going into war with Iraq.
Aluta Continua.
Did Iraq deserve going through a war with USA.
Yes it did.
(3 votes for 13.64%)
Yes it did but not for fear of possesing WMDs.
(5 votes for 22.73%)
No, it was unfairly treated.
(7 votes for 31.82%)
No, it was only a point to prove superiority.
(7 votes for 31.82%)
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Joseph-Peter
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Re: What truth lies in the justification of the US war on Iraq.
February 19, 2004 - 04:13 AM
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Thanks Emilio for your post. am glad that atleast you are the first brave person to take the step forward and speak out you opinion about this issue. Thanks.
Back to the post. saddam was a merciless despot who needed to be sorted out as a way of relief to the many iraqis whose rights he infringed, everyone knows that.
Firstly, i believe that if America wanted to help the iraqis, why didn't it just come out in the open that it was against the rule of saddam and wanted to liberate the people instead of taking a step in the wrong direction that it found that Iraq had WMDs.
Secondly, if it touched Bush that much, why didn't he just take the right channel of going through the UN to try and find a way of ousting Saddam, or maybe let's say that the UN failed to do its job hence USA had to take law into its own hands.
Thirdly,you say that Saddam had 3 mths in which you claim he would have used to destroy the weapons or maybe bury them as you have put it. But don't you think that before going into war, pre-war accessors are put in place to watch the actions of the enemy at most, why did america fail to detect that saddam was destroying the only evidence they had to justify their intended mission.
If the WMDs are buried, i believe that America, as determined as it is to find any slight evidence would have dug no matter how deep to get the proof.
I am not a cruel and mean person as the Hitlers or the milosovics of this world. But surely, have you come to think of how much this war has cost both countries, A lot of innocent people have been killed in this war, a lot of money is to be lost via the reconstruction of iraq (that money could have gone to something beneficial and vital to the world as in saving the human race e.g HIV / AIDS). Or maybe let's put it that you have never gone through a war experience before, you don't have a slight clue of what it feels like to be running from and to where you don't know. Lives of Iraqs have been put to a halt. Think about it.
By the way, i don't believe in combating evil with evil, do you.
aluta Continua.
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Cicero
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Re: What truth lies in the justification of the US war on Iraq.
February 25, 2004 - 01:36 AM
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Exactly as TheCodoba said!
Bush had been influenced by his father and simulatneously by oil industry seeking for new options in Mid East.
I assume war was agreed upon before he even got elected.
Remember how DID he got elected!!!!
Thats all from me.
Ave Futuria
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Hasan
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Iraq war
February 25, 2004 - 05:08 AM
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It was all about oil and control in the region. Bush is the most hatred person in whole world. This war could be avoided easily. If Bush wanted, he could take Saddam out other way; but he has to show the world how powerful USA is, also had to listen to his father...
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Joseph-Peter
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Iraq War
February 29, 2004 - 02:54 AM
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I agree with you RajaG.
One even wonders why we have the UN when we can have U.S.A as the world's governing power. The UN, just as emilio had put it is nothing but a record holder of failure....have they ever considered dissolving it. It is pointless to have an organisation that can't control or fulfill its intended purposes.
My brother, that surely shows the personal vendetta in Bush's heart. he is here to fufill his father's foreign policy. Look out for more bullying tactics. Watch bush go....
Aluta Continua
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Raja
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Iraq War
February 29, 2004 - 12:36 PM
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WMD was a lame excuse on Bush's part. Bush is not really known as the most intelligent person in the world, and his cabinet had to prove that they are just as intelligent as Mr President.
UN? Why on earth should USA need UN permission to go on a war? Do you take your pet's permission while going out?
And the only place on earth where there was a despotic ruler is Iraq. Human rights were grossly violated in Iraq ONLY. Only Iraq was supposed to posses WMDs!! What 'bout NKorea, India, Pakistan?
If human rights violation can be a strong reason for US to go on war, they should start a war against Pakistan, Afghanistan (even after the fall of Taliban), Iran, ALL the countries in the Eastern Europe, Myanmar and even Russia (and more .....). And then they should turn to themselves.
Back to WMDs and emilio's reflection - Saddam is a stupid, isn't he? He could destroy the WMDs with full media coverage, and avoid the war. Instead, he chose to do it surreptitiously, and then risk his own life. And the rest of the WMDs are buried underground in Syria. What's Bush thinking 'bout that? That, once they are buried, they can't come out (Bush may think like that, though), so forget 'bout them?
What 'bout NKorea? They are saying it for ages that they have NPower. What 'bout Pakistan? Pak scientist A K Khan was involved in N-technology trafficking to NKorea and Libya with full govt support - and Pak still gets aid from USA!! Double standards!!
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: What truth lies in the justification of the US war on Iraq.
March 1, 2004 - 01:25 AM
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bait and switch - scare you with weapons over here - then shame you for being against 'liberating' oppressed Iraqis over there.
I don't think Saddam really had much, if anything, left - remember Clintons bombing campaign in 98' - that may have gotten most of what they are looking for.
Regardless Saddam was not Nuclear and he obviously didn't have any bio or chemicals in sufficient abundance to be a threat to us.
And as to Hitler not having WMD - you are talking apples and oranges - by the time the US got involved in WW2 - we had been attacked by Japan and Germany had already invaded France, Poland, Denmark, Holland, - I know I'm forgetting a few countries. They were bombing our allies the British on a daily basis - and Hitler was exterminating all the Jews of Europe.
Don't you think we had a little more justification to fight Hitler? Don't you think Hitler was a bit more of a threat?
Saddam is not on par with Hitler - he is more on par with say - the Aiatollah in Iran in the late 80's - and we did not invade Iran - even after they kidnapped our embassay. Actually we armed Saddam and let him fight the Iranians for us.
The fact of the matter is that Iraq is a poor defense policy - it is driving us into debt and it is pre-occupying us when we need to be focused on Al Qada - we could have finished the job in Afghanistan first.
Think about how silly it is to capture Saddam before Bin Laden or Mullah Omar. Bin Laden can move around if he wants to - we know that Saddam was going to be staying in Iraq - as he ruled the country. We could have taken our time and built an international effort instead of rushing to war.
Lastly - and perhaps I am being selfish - but we are not responsible for righting all the wrongs of the world - I would rather we spent the half Trillion we have dumped into conquering and rebuilding Iraq - on Schools and health care in the US - there are needy people in our own country -
- right now we are building schools in Iraq when our own high schoolers rank toward the bottom of the world in math and science.
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sean jayasekara
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Sadam out - justified
March 5, 2004 - 07:38 AM
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sean jayasekara
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War with Iraq in 2003 - I dont think so!
March 5, 2004 - 07:44 AM
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He could have been gotten rid of a long time ago instead of being supported for political reasons.
The US doesnt care about the human rights atrocities committed by Sadam, if they did he wouldnt have been in power in 2003, he wouldn't have been supported against the 'torturous' Irani's.
They care about the fact that he could be affecting their economy.
Lets not for one moment think that the war in Iraq was for moral reasons - it was deeply plitical and economical.
Still, he needed to go and better now than never I suppose!
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Raja
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Saddam ...........
March 5, 2004 - 10:58 AM
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Emilio, Saddam was bad no doubt. But the poor state of the Iraqi people (and people of some other Arab nations) is not solely because of the deeds of the leaders. It's because of the blind faith of the people in the religious and political leaders that spells the doom. Bush might kick out one Saddam (though what he aimed at is oil), there will be no dearth of even more orthodox and ruthless Saddams in that land.
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Ramz
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Re: What truth lies in the justification of the US war on Iraq.
March 22, 2004 - 08:13 AM
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This oil thing...now please...justify your answer. Please I'm begging anyone out there to give me some info that would give me any reason to think that this was about oil. All of you that are out there that are throwing these irrational statements about oil had a car!, then you may be zipping your mouth shut. Now just look at the gas prices recently, you would have figured that since we are going to war over oil, that they would be going down. NO! They haven't...not even close! In fact they are the highest that they have ever been throughout most of the country and are continuing to go up. I read in article the other day about gas prices and how in my area they will be rising to over $2 a gallon in the next few weeks and maybe even by this summer go to $3 a gallon (Democrat and Chronicle).
Now I know half of you are going to try to tell me that he saved oil when he was fighting the war in iraq...well duh, do you want the oil to be there at a pumping station burning for months? Do you want to have Pollution? No!...Wait no, take that back I forgot, Bush hates the environment too, so thats why he "meant" to keep the oil fields burning.
Give me a break...
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Ramz
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Re: What truth lies in the justification of the US war on Iraq.
March 23, 2004 - 12:46 PM
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Obviously, you didn't care to watch or flat ignored anything about the U.N. and their quest to look for WMD's. And how they're were forced to play cat and mouse and had to wait for Saddam's approval of what they were able to look for and what they weren't able to. If you did at all watch as it all unfolded (the 3 months before the war with Iraq), you would have known this.
Obviously you read what you want, and only tell the one side of things to try to get your point across, which is fine, but here's the other side. Venzuela is another country that supplies us with oil, has an unstable goverment, and unemployment numbers that are almost never heard of (20.1% a year ago,14.7% at the end of december, USA TODAY). Did we attack their neighbors, such as Columbia and Brazil...? Did we attack Venezuela itself? Considering its the fourth largest exporter of oil the U.S. has...if what you say is true, then there was our perfect chance to strike them right?
And on what are you basing the idea that the invasion of Iraq was and still maybe leading into an invasion of Saudi Arabia. The fact of the matter is, the Saudi's did something that no other country wanted to do in this War on Terror, they were willing to work with us. And they have, therefor, we have done nothing to them. Here was article to further my point that was featured on USA Today's website and it says:
"* The government of Saudi Arabia worked closely with top U.S. officials in major initiatives to solve the bin Laden problem with diplomacy. On the other hand, before Sept. 11 the Saudi and U.S. governments did not achieve full sharing of important intelligence information or develop an adequate joint effort to track and disrupt the finances of the al-Qaeda organization."
...GIVE ME A BREAK
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Ramz
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Re: What truth lies in the justification of the US war on Iraq.
March 24, 2004 - 06:36 AM
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First of all your sources are so rediculous, that I fell out of my chair laughing. Your second link is a real laugher itself. The person who wrote that article, Mark Weisbrot, is one of the biggest liberals in Washington. I read up on other articles that he wrote such as:
Another Dividend For the Rich
Economists are laughing at Bush's "economic stimulus" package -- but then again, this tax cut isn't really meant to help the economy any more than the last one was.
or even...
WEISBROT: It's the Economy, and It's Going to Be Stupid
Republicans think the best way to stimulate the economy is to grant more and more tax cuts. While Democrats say existing tax cuts have made government powerless against recession.
Its like me trying to tell you that you have to believe that whatever Rush Limbaugh says in any article he writes, is true...which is not the cause at all.
-------------------------------------
You also state that the U.S. was involved in supporting the coup, which is very true dont get me wrong...but again, heres the other side of the story.
According to the NY Times, Chavez claimed that the coup was aided by President Bush, which is not very reliable, but never-the-less he stated that, but the only true organization that gave money to the aides against Chavez was the National Endowment for Democracy, a program that also has given money for movements for democracy in Cuba, North Korea, and for Serbs, just to name a few.
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"I was talking about the Oil and Iraq, the WMD's are a whole other situation."
So was I..
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Just because we haven't found any weapons of mass destruction doesn't mean that their aren't any. In a reply that emilio had earlier, weapons have been buried into the ground. Maybe they aren't WMD's, but they have unconvered weapons that are being examined for various things. Many news agencies have acknowlegded this, but people have either been too arrogant, or just to want to hear it. Since there were weapons found buried who says that there aren't more? Who says that there is more? And the vastly dry, desert like conditions in Iraq would make it nearly impossible for the Americans that are too impatient or ignorant to have Iraq investigated within one year. It's realistic.
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The U.N. was granted full access into Iraq, but here's the rest of that story too.
Yes U.N. officials had unlimited access to wherever they wanted...but when it came to questioning Iraqi Officials of where some of the missing weapons and such were, officials never got a straight answer.
~"This is perhaps the most important problem we are facing. Although I can understand that it may not be easy for Iraq in all cases to provide the evidence needed, it is not the task of the inspectors to find it. Iraq itself must squarely tackle this task and avoid belittling the questions," Mr Blix said.
If you still dont believe me, read this article about the problems inspectors were having as presented by, believe it or not, the BBC News.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2761261.stm
--------------------------------------------------
"Please, just stick to your views and your facts. Don't criticize my opinion and logic. These discussions should be straight to our points and our arguments. We need to keep an open mind."
I'll surely respect your opinion, but I also defend my argument when its challenged. I will not appease to you or anyone, when I challenege an opinion or a baseless fact, which I can give a sophesticated answer to. I always have an open ear, but not for the reasons above.
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clarita zarate
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Re: What truth lies in the justification of the US war on Iraq.
December 2, 2004 - 11:21 AM
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The truth is that Bush had made up his mind to take out Saddam, WMDs or no. He wanted to finish what his daddy started. After 9/11, he told his advisers to manufacture
evidence that could be used to justify an invasion. He knew that the UN inspectors had not found any weapons, and rather than go along with the UN and the opinions of most of America's European allies, he chose to LIE to the American people and to the world and start his unilateral
war. Saddam Hussein was a bad guy, no doubt about that, but tens of thousands have already died with more to come, and the US is bankrupting itself on a war it could not afford to wage without the help and consent of the international community. And now, if you believe that exit polls could not possibly be 5 percentage points wrong in the deciding states (which this writer does) he has just stolen his second Presidential election with dirty tricks such as manipulating the vote count. America is not a democracy anymore. It has become a near-fascist dictatorship right under our noses, without any objection from its fat, ignorant, self-righteous, unthinking citizens. God help us and the world.
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clarita zarate
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Iraq
December 2, 2004 - 11:29 AM
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The truth is that Bush had made up his mind to take out Saddam, WMDs or no. He wanted to finish what his daddy started. After 9/11, he told his advisers to manufacture
evidence that could be used to justify an invasion. He knew that the UN inspectors had not found any weapons, and rather than go along with the UN and the opinions of most of America's European allies, he chose to LIE to the American people and to the world and start his unilateral
war. Saddam Hussein was a bad guy, no doubt about that, but tens of thousands have already died with more to come, and the US is bankrupting itself on a war it could not afford to wage without the help and consent of the international community. And now, if you believe that exit polls could not possibly be 5 percentage points wrong in the deciding states (which this writer does) he has just stolen his second Presidential election with dirty tricks such as manipulating the vote count. America is not a democracy anymore. It has become a near-fascist dictatorship right under our noses, without any objection from its fat, ignorant, self-righteous, unthinking citizens. God help us and the world.
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