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Haythem Kamel
Joined: Jul 12, 2002
Posts: 5
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Gender & Age: Male & 32
Country: Egypt
Province/State: Al Iskandariyah
City: Alexandria
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year 2004 , new strange post on TIG , the discussion of all discussions
January 19, 2004 - 08:35 AM
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hey all
i love TakingITGlobal
and really i have been inspired by that site , and really TIG helped me soooooo much inmy activities
but lately i found a strange way of discussions , that always closed
and i found only one common thing between those discussions that have been closed
thay have some posts from TIG members , that i have on my list ( Haythem`s List ) 
i think that is the discussion of all discussions
since 12 jan 2004 , every day , many people whom hate the Islamic religion
joined TIG
and they do nothing , and only nothing but posting replies to any kind of discussion in a very bad and discriminating way to any muslim person in all overthe world
and they have the same way
( quote - argument - fake hadith - fake translation from Quran - quote - saying bad words related to other TIG members - write a link to a website , that made specially to attack Islam or to broadcast false information about the religion )
thats all they did
they didnt post any thing else
they didnt join any kind of organizations , or any kind of activities , events , interests , or any thing
just this way of posts , and thats all
as if they are taking money for making that .
they are very discrimintative group , and all the TIG members dislike their way
really they use wrong and false translation to the quran , and they post false hadith ( speaches of the prophit muhamed )
and also they give the others all the links ( as a source ) and this link is a site have been made by another group ( may be the same ) that hate islam and make false information about the religion in that kind of sites
for example , i can make a site and make a great difinition in it , as a source
and this site speaks about my self as the creator of the universe
i can say that , and this could be post to the discussion as a link to a source on the internet
and that dosnt mean it is TRUE
i dont like their post , but i made a test
i read many of their replies , and compare the quran parts with the real parts on the quran written in arabic ( in hand )
i found they used a strange way of translation , as they make any body review it and dont understand arabic , that it is true , but really it isent
and
i read the ahadith they said , i found it is tooooootaly faake , and nothing in reality as they said
and also they said strange amd unlogic things
for example
they said true muslims cant wear jeans ???????? who is the dumb that can accept that
( by the way , i have a few non jeans clothes , and i dont use it )
they said muslim cant eat with the non muslims ??????? unlogic
because many parts in the quran said that the food , not only sharing it with non muslims , the food that have been made by a non muslim , it is ok to eat from it , and to give the non muslim , a muslim made food
they said the muslims should kill the non muslims
untrue
that in also many parts of the quran , it is written that you shouldnt force any body non muslim to follow you , and if any other non muslim group didnt attack you , so you should act as friends
i am saying that because i am afraid that the non muslims on TIG , could belive what they say
and if any body want to know any thing about islam , please ask any muslim friend , and if he didnt know , he will tell you the right way to know , to have the true information
and i hope that the people can understand each other , and the language is a great barrier for that
really i had to learn the others languages to understand culture .
my self , i learned hebrew , inorder to understand the israelian TV , and to know what are they sayng about us
i can understand what the western media say , because i can understand what they are saying
so please , if you are non muslim , non arabic speaking
if you want to understand this culture , try to learn
or if you dont have time , just to listen to those people are saying , and search for the information from their real source
about my list , i have updated it , and if any body want to add another one
please send me , and i will check
my list ( Haythem`s List )
MullahMo
Registered: 2004-01-18
Location: United States
Posts: 2 [view list]
abdelmes
Registered: 2004-01-15
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 3 [view list]
truthful
Registered: 2004-01-15
Location: Canada
Posts: 1 [view list]
Denis-Giron
Registered: 2004-01-13
Location: United States
Posts: 1 [view list]
DoctorNO
Registered: 2004-01-13
Location: Canada
Posts: 21 [view list]
adnank
Registered: 2004-01-12
Location: United States
Posts: 12 [view list]
porky
Registered: 2004-01-12
Location: Australia
Posts: 10 [view list]
MMughal
Registered: 2003-11-28
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 45 [view list]
and the last , but not least , the potential list member
Ashley06
Registered: 2004-01-18
Location: United States
Posts: 18 [view list]
thanks , and i hope for those members , to speak about any other topic
and really ,the TIG was toooooo calm and wonderfull site before , full of cooperation and understanding
i hope to be like this again with out any hard fealings
i think religion is , the way that God gives to humanity to have a happy , good , peacfull life
there is many ways for this , and thats why there is many religions , and the man is free to follow the one that he likes , and understand , and fullfill his needs and hopes in the life
and it is very bad , that we find any kind of religion have this number of posts in this bad way
so please no more , and we need to have a peacfull site full of understanding and cooperation
and thanks for many members , and especially for the non muslim TIG members that replied to those group post , in a very smart and fair way , really i respect it .
and i hope , to have a day on TIG , without any discriminating stuff to any king of religion
for more understanding , not missunderstanding , more tolerence , not violence ,more cooperation not conflict , more friends , not enemy
for more love , not hate
thanks for reading
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Haythem Kamel
Joined: Jul 12, 2002
Posts: 5
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Gender & Age: Male, 32
Country: Egypt
Province/State: Al Iskandariyah
City: Alexandria
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welcome xyz
January 20, 2004 - 08:09 AM
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thanks for reply
you used the same way
i hope you to use a new way of reply
FIRST OF ALL
welcome xyz to my list
______________________________
xyz2000
Registered: 2004-01-16
Location: Canada
Posts: 5 [view list]
_______________________________
by the way , emam mirza ali is not a muslim ideology , and this have no relation to the religion
so dont use it as a resource
but if you want to know more about imam merza and the many parties that claim they are muslims , ( but they are not )
you are free to do that
for all what you have said , all the points , are not true , you need to read more if you want to understand
by the way
XYZ , from your way of reply , i believe that you are a girl ,
i wonder the starnge of what you are doing people, you dont have gender balance , you need to be more opened to the free world ,
all of those men in my list , and only one girl , thats really strange
___________________________________________________________
XYZ said:
Why you can not respect us when we say we do not want to be treated like that? When we say those are wrong? When we say those are inhuman.
_________________________________________________
i respect every body who respect my ideology , and speak in a civilized way with good argument
and in the same time , have other activities
i am wondering you guys , you didnt listen to my advice , i told you all many times to get a life , find other interests
post any other things on TIG , share with any other contribution to the site , but you didnt
because , may be , your way of education learned you that the dialouge is moving in only one way ,that is your way
and you didnt even hear to my advice
and you use the same way i told you about
change it please , because we are bored ,
promise
i will not read any of your old ways of replies , unless you change it
and i will not reply to this as well
deal?????
great
so, check other links in TIG , you will find it a wonderful site for tolerence
not only the discussions that you post your hatered to islam , speak about any things else
i told one of your friends to talk about the movies , you will really like it
you are free to hate any thing , but dont judge the reaction
by the way XYZ
all the examples you said is untrue , false , not logic or happend in the real world
by the way ,
i am a muslim , in a country that about 90% are muslims
i have many christian friends ,and some times many of them thinks that i am chrisitan
you got it
NO DIFERENCES
dont say any thing you dont understand
and if , and only if , it happend from one muslim in the world that have 1.2 billion muslim , that he treated a non muslim with a bad way
that is his own problem
not the problem of the religon that treated the other 1.199,999,999 billion to treat the non muslim in a good way
dr no
yes you do , all of you use false translation and fake sites for translating the quran
and you use a few no. of fake sites about islam , i wonder , how and organized people like you all dont know many sites , to make a cocktail of sources
if you need help in that , i can help you , i have a thousand site that attack islam , and right false information about the religion as if they are muslim speaking
even some times they use the name a famouse well known religous people to say many things they didnt say in the real life
about the hadith , bukhary , him self is not false , he is true , and all what he said is true
but about what you have been posted , it wasent written by bukhary , it was written by you , and the one ( i dont know ) that post it on the internet
and this is truly false , and not related to any islamic word
if you need a good islamic site visit islamweb.net , they have an english link if any body want to see it
what you do is you choose some few parts , with out understanding , and you say that it is bla bla , and you dont show all the related items to this , and why this happend , and for whom
so you confuse the reader about what is written in reality
it is old way , i recomend that you all stop of that
and you do the same to what the TIG members said , as well as the religous words
about the hebrew part , i will reply it to you in hebrew , and waiting for your reply
slikha
ani lo yakhol leqoreeh ma atta koteev
va ani khoshev qe atta lo meveen meleem achdoot
va ani lo ohev ma atta po-eil
toda leekha
and dont ever think that you can deny that all of the members of my list , have a common thing in between
and all of you from the same group
because
it is unlogic that a person joined the site in 18 - jan
and replies to a topic sent on 15 - jan
thats mean ,
1- he is fully interested
2- he have time machine
3- he is a magician
4- he is an internet server
5- he is a harddesk
6- his operating machine is tooooooo old
7- A MEMBER ON TIG SENT HIM THE DISCUSSION AND HE KNOWS EVERY THING HAPPEND , SO HE GET TO REPLY
and for XYS again
i am really interested with the translation you post , and also to the historical information you did
it seems really very bad , i dont like it , and i agree with you
but the question no is
what is the religion you are talking about , please tell me , because i didnt hear about a religion that says those information
really i dont know
and where is the countries that you said that happend it those information
i think some body cheated you , those information happend on a planet called ( lsfdhjg luiaslifusdgailbf )
not on earth
and if it happend on earth , and if there is a religion that sayed so
i agree with you toooootaly
and for the people who read that
what i have learnt , in islam
if you need to be a good man ( in a religous logic ) you must set slaves free
thats before abraham lincoln beleive in that idea after 1300 years of what said in ISLAM
and i think that black slaves problems happend in europe and america , and every body knows that
but finnaly it ends
and nothing of those false information happend in the islamic world EVER
what you said didnt happend in reality
may be it happend ( as i told you ) in another planet
i am impressed of your space knowlege
good point , congratulation , keed the good work
i dont reply by copy and paste articles not mine , you did it , all of you , not me
for the marraige issue
we learnt in islam to be polite
so
there is many things prophite Mohamed should learn the women about many things , how to deal with
so
this young little girl , will learn a great knowledge from the source
and then , she will teach the other women and girls how to deal with this
and that also mean that the women could be a teacher in the religon issues ( so what you said is totaly false )
thats mean
that she will live longer after he dies , so , she can teach the women for more longer time about what they have to behave in their life with their families and thier health
and he didnt marry her for the unpolite and unlogic reasons that you said
in the movie ( THE 13th WARRIOR )
ANTONIO BANDERAS ( as the arabien warrior )
said to one of the other european warriors in the movies
( at least , i know my father )
i think you got my point
for what you say it happend now
and it is illigal to marry a girl under the age , in all the islamic world
you need to have the information from the real source
but you said so ,
because you didnt have the opportunity to learn from a good source
so i will consider you as a less opportunity member
by the way
it is not hard to make the list
it is toooooooo easy
because you are obvious to any one
and thanks for you smart help
yea , take it global , not take it personal
thats all
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Abdallah Diwan
Joined: Sep 29, 2000
Posts: 21
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Gender & Age: Male, 28
Country: Egypt
Province/State: Al Iskandariyah
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Re: year 2004 , new strange post on TIG , the discussion of all discussions
January 20, 2004 - 08:53 AM
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Hitham , we are best Freineds
and i have an Advise for you . we HAVE LOTS OF WORK TO DO , and you are still heer discussing that with this people . this kind of people god made there hearts black towardes us and islam , and they will never see the light .  . they even don't beleve in god , not only Islam
So wasteing your time with such people trying to prove that Islam is not a religion form God . this is too silly from them .
and I think if you talk they will still think you are lieng and they will prove till death that you are wronge , cause they dont want to give a try to belive it .
any way . I think you just need to go and do some work , and long disscussions with SUCH PEOPLE is not good for you , and you know that this guys are old .
and maybe retired , and counting there days to die lool ,
so they are doing something to make them happy .
so let oldies play . hahahaha
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r g
Joined: Jan 13, 2004
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year 2004 , new strange post on TIG , the discussion of all discussions
January 20, 2004 - 09:05 AM
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Peace haythem,
Originally posted by haythem
hey all
i love TakingITGlobal
and really i have been inspired by that site , and really TIG helped me soooooo much inmy activities
An appeal to emotions?
Originally posted by haythem
but lately i found a strange way of discussions , that always closed
and i found only one common thing between those discussions that have been closed
thay have some posts from TIG members , that i have on my list ( Haythem`s List )
Theres another thing in common....violent reaction from the muslim members. Im sorry but that is the truth.
Originally posted by haythem
since 12 jan 2004 , every day , many people whom hate the Islamic religion
joined TIG and they do nothing , and only nothing but posting replies to any kind of discussion in a very bad and discriminating way to any muslim person in all overthe world
You confuse people with ideology.
http://www.takingitglobal.org/discuss/showthread.html?s=&threadid=5455
Originally posted by haythem
really they use wrong and false translation to the quran
Are Yusufali, Pickthal & Shakir fake translations of the quran??? Then by all means introduce us to the TRUE TRANSLATION of the quran.
Originally posted by haythem
, and they post false hadith ( speaches of the prophit muhamed )
Is the Bukhari hadith a false hadith???
Originally posted by haythem
and also they give the others all the links ( as a source ) and this link is a site have been made by another group ( may be the same ) that hate islam and make false information about the religion in that kind of sites
Is the muslim site “Islam Q&A” (http://63.175.194.25/) a fake Islamic site???
Originally posted by haythem
they said true muslims cant wear jeans ???????? who is the dumb that can accept that
( by the way , i have a few non jeans clothes , and i dont use it )
they said muslim cant eat with the non muslims ??????? unlogic
because many parts in the quran said that the food , not only sharing it with non muslims , the food that have been made by a non muslim , it is ok to eat from it , and to give the non muslim , a muslim made food
Says who in particular??? Prove it. Give us a link.
Originally posted by haythem
they said the muslims should kill the non muslims
untrue
Originally posted by abdallahdiwan
My personal oppinion is islam did a right thing , and great profite Mohamed dont set nothing without a perpose , cause he is a mesenger form god , and you aint any thing in coparison to him , and as god saied ( la yanteko an el hawa) which mean he never say something to his thoughts , but to god thoughts ,
SO , I totally agree that you must be killed you and the others , but after following all the procedures with you .
http://www.takingitglobal.org/discuss/showthread.html?s=&threadid=5430
haythem, speak for yourselves.
Originally posted by haythem
my self , i learned hebrew , inorder to understand the israelian TV , and to know what are they sayng about us
i can understand what the western media say , because i can understand what they are saying
really? You know hebrew? Then you wont mind translating this...
aw-hab ray'-ah kem-o 
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xyz
Joined: Jan 16, 2004
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Re:
January 20, 2004 - 12:00 PM
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Dear heythem and all other truth seekers,
I posted a reply but unfortuantely I did not know why it has beeen moved to another section that it does not belong, may be I clicked a wrong button. Anyway, I will post it here again.
You as San said in another post asked for tolerance and asked us:
Why cant people tolerate others differences?
That is a fair question. I really believe in tolerating of others opinions, ideas, believes, life styles. That’s what makes life beautiful.
But what do you really mean by the above question?
Tolerating differences like what? Tolerating slavery? Tolerating forcing 9 year old kids to marry old men? Not allowing females to become judges? Beating them? Considering witness value of women as ½ of men? Separating men from women in university classes, hospitals, buses, … ? Witnessing stoning to death and amputations? Watching of flogging and executions on streets by our kids? Banning of music and dancing? Forcing to wear scarves and being flogged or acid thrown on our faces if men see our hair? Accepting the fact that life value of one human being (Moslem man) should be 4 times than another human being (Christian woman) and much more than a Hindu woman? Treating Non-Moslems as untouchables and classifying them as urine, …? etc, etc, etc
DO YOU WANT US TO TOLERATE THOSE?
See: http://www.imamreza.net/old/eng/lib...Cleanliness.htm
And who are we? Who are they? Those are the rules in OUR countries. Not Canada, not US,.. We and are families are subject to those rules in our countries, and they happened to be Islamic rules.
Why you can not respect us when we say we do not want to be treated like that? When we say those are wrong? When we say those are inhuman.
Even on this website, one of its member said ex-Muslims should be killed!!! BECAUSE PROPHET SAID SO! Is that the respect you and the moderator mean?
By tolerating I believe, you mean we should tolerate Islam, respect Islam and shut up and you are the ones who are allowed to speak, calling others as trolls, abusers, liars, harassers …
By respecting to others, it seems you mean we are allowed only to respect and not telling how we were and are treated. Surprisingly that’s all the answers we get. If you can not
answer what you call as accusations, lies, etc , you could at least ask a knowledgeable person to show up and answer the questions and provide us with the correct translations. Or may be all we can do is calling names, crying, denying, threatening to deaths, making ourselves busy by preparing lists, or recommending latest movies?!!
Is that all we can come up with?
Why people who believe they are not treated well because of some misunderstandings of Quran as you claimed should not be allowed to speak up and protest?
You said you cried; let me know what the reaction of a little girl who is forced to marry an old man should be? What the reaction of a boy or girl who has been born in a Christian or Jewish family should be when he realizes that he is considered as an unbeliever and is treated as feces?!! If her or his classmates touch him, they should wash their hands?!! Does it make you sad as well? Isn’t it abusive? Isn’t it humiliating? Shouldn’t we say it’s wrong? Shouldn’t we inform people of what’s happening?
Again see: http://www.imamreza.net/old/eng/lib...Cleanliness.htm
In my first post I asked a few questions that I had in my mind, unfortunately I did not receive any response. May be that was because I did not provide enough sources. I also asked if the translations of the verses were wrong and if that’s the case how it should be translated. So I ask my questions again but this time with more sources. May be you could help me. By the way the translations that I give in this post are from not one but 3 well-known translators of Quran.
Dear heythhem,
You claimed the translations were not true. Let me ask you how the following verses should be translated to answer the questions that will follow, this time I also included the translation from 3 translators and the address of the sites, you can check them out. All 3 translators know Arabic language very well and their translations are similar. But if you believe they are wrong let me know what the correct one is? And this time I also included some more documents from neutral, historical or medical websites to avoid being labeled as a liar.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/0...mt.html#002.178
002.178
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! the law of equality is prescribed to you in cases of murder: the free for the free, the slave for the slave, the woman for the woman. But if any remission is made by the brother of the slain, then grant any reasonable demand, and compensate him with handsome gratitude, this is a concession and a Mercy from your Lord.
After this whoever exceeds the limits shall be in grave penalty.
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the murdered; the freeman for the freeman, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female. And for him who is forgiven somewhat by his (injured) brother, prosecution according to usage and payment unto him in kindness. This is an alleviation and a mercy from your Lord. He who transgresseth after this will have a painful doom.
SHAKIR: O you who believe! retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the slain, the free for the free, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female, but if any remission is made to any one by his (aggrieved) brother, then prosecution (for the bloodwit) should be made according to usage, and payment should be made to him in a good manner; this is an alleviation from your Lord and a mercy; so whoever exceeds the limit after this he shall have a painful chastisement.
.
1- Why in “Those Translations” human beings are classified as freemen, slaves and females? What is the correct translation?
2- Why messenger of God owned salves based on authentic hadithes? If you believe I am lying let me know so I will show you the links to the relevant authentic hadithes on Islamic sites; however you can easily search them for yourself.
3- If Islam decided to gradually abolish slavery by tolerating slavery, why it was practiced for 1400 years in the Islamic countries and was associated with several major riots of slaves that ended by killing slaves? Why it was not until 40 years ago that Saudi Arabia banned slavery after pressure from outside?
Based on Historical facts:
http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~fis...ngs/lewis1.html
“It was not until 1857 that Ottoman government under pressure of Britain banned slavery. After this order, people of Hejaz revolted under fatwa of chief of the ulema of Mecca Shaykh Jamal denouncing the ban on the slave trade as contrary to the holy law of Islam.This caused the Province of Hejaz to be exempted from the law. “
Lets look at the fatwa of Shaykh Jamal, chief of the ulema of Mecca at that time:
Quote:Shaykh Jamal issued a fatwa denouncing the ban on the slave trade as contrary to the holy law of Islam. Because of this anti-Islamic act, he said,together with such other anti-Islamic actions as allowing women to initiate divorce proceedings and to move around unveiled, the Turks had become apostates and heathens. It was lawful to kill them without incurring criminal penalties or bloodwit, and to Enslave Their Children.
From Travel guide.com:
“I t was not until 1962 that slavery was formally abolished in Saudi Arabia where Prophet Mohammad was born. “
http://www.travel-guide.com/data/sau/sau580.asp
Who is responsible for sufferings of all those who have been held as slaves for 1400 years, only because Islam decided to abolish it gradually?!
Islam did not abolish it rapidly but permitted suffering of slaves for 1400 years only because for a short period of time we could expect a few protests and financial crisis? Didn’t we face the same in USA? If President Lincoln ordered US citizens to treat their slaves fairly and voluntarily free them after beating them up but slave masters were allowed to go and capture more slaves, could slavery gradually abolished in USA?
How was the condition of slaves in Islamic courtiers?
Again let’s read some history:
http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~fis...ngs/lewis1.html
Q
uote:A Turkish letter of November 1849, sent by the reforming Grand Vezir Mustafa Reshid Pasha to the Ottoman governor of Tripoli, refers to the death by thirst of sixteen hundred black slaves, on their way from Bornu to Fezzan in southern Libya: "While our Holy Law permits slavery, it requires that slaves be treated with fatherly care, and hose who act in a contrary manner will be condemned by God." The governor was ordered to punish the guilty slavedealers and to ensure that such disasters did not recur. From British consular reports of the late nineteenth century, it is clear that this traffic, and the suffering it entailed,continued.
THE REVOLT OF AFRICAN SLAVES IN IRAQ
IN THE 3RD/9TH CENTURY
http://www.markuswiener.com/reviews/popovic.htm
Quote:The revolt of African slaves in Iraq from 869 to 883 C.E.-the revolt of the Zanj-was one of the great rebellions of world history and the first major uprising in the history of the African diaspora. The Zanj were black slaves shipped overseas from East Africa to work in salt mines and plantations under the harshest conditions. Their fate resembled trans-Atlantic slave trade, and their revolt triggered racism against blacks among Arabs.
You may also read this one:
: ZANZIBAR HISTORY
ARTICLE : TIMELINE 3 : SLAVES & IVORY
http://www.allaboutzanzibar.com/ind...1-34-slaves.htm
If you search you will find a lot more. Are all those historical data lies?
4- Could you please search and show me a verse or hadith that clearly condemns slavery? Or shows a timetable for its gradual abolishment?
5- Why in all countries with Islamic law or Shria (like SA, Former Taliban and Iran) the life value of a woman is ½ of life value of a man?
6- Why all of those who studied Islam for all of their lives reached to the same point? Why they claim that’s because it was said in Quran that life value of salves, men and women are not equal. If you do not agree with that what is the correct translation of the above verse?
It is believed that Muhammad married Ayasha when she was 9 years old and he was more than 50. If you say that’s a lie, please let me know
7- Do you believe Muslims should do the same at present and be jailed and diagnosed as pedophiles by psychiatrists?
http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/d...edophiliaTR.htm
Or it was OK for that time but not any more and we should not imitate his practice and what he did any more because it was OK for that time not now.
Is marrying little girls OK for their health? Are girls at 9 year mature enough mentally and physically to be married?
This is from UNISEF:
Quoteregnancy-related deaths are the leading cause of mortality for 15-19 year-old girls (married and unmarried) worldwide.Those under age 15 are five times as likely to die as women in their twenties.. The main causes are haemorrahage, sepsis, pre-eclampsia/eclampsia and obstructed labour. . .
.However, physical immaturity is the key risk for under 15s. High rates of Vesico-Vaginal Fistula (VVF) are clearly identified with marriage and childbearing in the 10-15 year-old age group; in one study in Niger, 88 per cent of women with fistula were in this age group at marriage. Mothers whose pelvis and birth canal are not fully developed often endure very prolonged labour. Unless the mother receives emergency obstetric care, relentless pressure from the baby’s skull can damage the birth canal, causing breakages in the wall, allowing uncontrollable leakage from the bladder into the vagina. The same problem may also occur in relation to the rectum, with leakage of faeces (recto-vaginal fistulas, or RVF) . . . .
source -- http://www.unicef-icdc.org/publicat...df/digest7e.pdf
According to UNICEF, no girl should become pregnant before the age of 18 because she is not yet physically ready to bear children.
See – http://www.commondreams.org/headlin...s01/0307-01.htm
Another one:
023.014
YUSUFALI: Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump; then we made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh; then we developed out of it another creature. So blessed be Allah, the best to create!
PICKTHAL: Then fashioned We the drop a clot, then fashioned We the clot a little lump, then fashioned We the little lump bones, then clothed the bones with flesh, and then produced it as another creation. So blessed be Allah, the Best of creators!
SHAKIR: Then We made the seed a clot, then We made the clot a lump of flesh, then We made (in) the lump of flesh bones, then We clothed the bones with flesh, then We caused it to grow into another creation, so blessed be Allah, the best of the creators.
8- I would be very pleased if anybody could show me the mentioned sequence by showing a picture of an embryo that is a lump of bones and then the bones are covered with flesh. As far as I know, bones and flesh are made simultaneously not in a sequence.
9- What do you think about this verse from Quran?
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/0...mt.html#086.006
086.005
YUSUFALI: Now let man but think from what he is created!
PICKTHAL: So let man consider from what he is created.
SHAKIR: So let man consider of what he is created:
086.006
YUSUFALI: He is created from a drop emitted-
PICKTHAL: He is created from a gushing fluid
SHAKIR: He is created of water pouring forth,
086.007
YUSUFALI: Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs:
PICKTHAL: That issued from between the loins and ribs.
SHAKIR: Coming from between the back and the ribs.
10- Isn’t it that man is not created from semen? Because 50% is from the semen and 50% is from female. Why the female part is not mentioned?
11- Sperms are produced in testis, so why between ribs and backbone is mentioned? If it is because the blood supply are the same please refer me to the relevant anatomy. Which vessel? If it is because the embryologic origin is the same, please refer me to an embryology website or textbook that says testis and the area between ribs and backbone are in a special way more embryologically related. Because of the fact that all organs are made from one cell, would it be correct to say semen is made from the heart or the brain because their embryologic origin is the same? How it should be translated?
So tell me what is the correct translation?
These are my some of the questions. Are willing to help me to find the correct answers?
But again please do not answer me with only links to articles on other sites or copy and pasting of huge articles that are not yours. Let us discuss about it. That's just like questioning someone and he tells you read these tons of books that I did not read and don't ask me again!! And be happy because I answered you!!
And again why I believe those are not only valid questions but important as well, as I said before, If we do not discuss the moral ssues of old men marrying young girls, aren’t we responsible for the many girls who are forced to be married in Iran and SA who are just only 9 years old. Should we leave them alone? Is it not important?
For more than 20 years the minimum age of marriage in Iran for girls has been decreased to 9 year old and despite of a lot of protests it was not increased. If the wellbeing of Iranian little girls should be of none’s concern then I will be silent.
Didn’t you say “Take it global”?
Thank you
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r g
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Re:
January 21, 2004 - 08:26 AM
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Originally posted by abdallahdiwan
My personal oppinion is islam did a right thing , and great profite Mohamed dont set nothing without a perpose , cause he is a mesenger form god , and you aint any thing in coparison to him , and as god saied ( la yanteko an el hawa) which mean he never say something to his thoughts , but to god thoughts ,
SO , I totally agree that you must be killed you and the others , but after following all the procedures with you .
http://www.takingitglobal.org/discu...=&threadid=5430
Originally posted by abdallahdiwan
Hitham , we are best Freineds
and i have an Advise for you . we HAVE LOTS OF WORK TO DO , and you are still heer discussing that with this people . this kind of people god made there hearts black towardes us and islam , and they will never see the light . . they even don't beleve in god , not only Islam
So wasteing your time with such people trying to prove that Islam is not a religion form God . this is too silly from them .
and I think if you talk they will still think you are lieng and they will prove till death that you are wronge , cause they dont want to give a try to belive it .
any way . I think you just need to go and do some work , and long disscussions with SUCH PEOPLE is not good for you , and you know that this guys are old .
and maybe retired , and counting there days to die lool ,
so they are doing something to make them happy .
so let oldies play . hahahaha
Originally posted by abdallahdiwan
I totally agree that you must be killed you and the others
Originally posted by abdallahdiwan
I totally agree that you must be killed you and the others
Originally posted by abdallahdiwan
I totally agree that you must be killed you and the others
Originally posted by abdallahdiwan
I totally agree that you must be killed you and the others
Now talk about "black hearts". Brain washed.
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xyz
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January 22, 2004 - 09:11 AM
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by the way , emam mirza ali is not a muslim ideology , and this have no relation to the religion
MY ANSWER:
I strongly do not recommend you to go to Iran and say it loud there. Something bad might happen to you. You are not a Shiate, that’s why. You see even Muslims do not know which way of Islam is the true path. That’s why they even kill each other!
so dont use it as a resource
but if you want to know more about imam merza and the many parties that claim they are muslims , ( but they are not )
you are free to do that
MY ANSWER:
So Iranians are not Muslims. Good!!
for all what you have said , all the points , are not true , you need to read more if you want to understand
MY ANSWER:
Which one? care to say?
by the way
XYZ , from your way of reply , i believe that you are a girl ,
i wonder the starnge of what you are doing people, you dont have gender balance , you need to be more opened to the free world ,
all of those men in my list , and only one girl , thats really strange
MY ANSWER:
What do you mean? Does it make any difference?
___________________________________________________________
XYZ said:
Why you can not respect us when we say we do not want to be treated like that? When we say those are wrong? When we say those are inhuman.
_________________________________________________
i respect every body who respect my ideology , and speak in a civilized way with good argument
and in the same time , have other activities
i am wondering you guys , you didnt listen to my advice , i told you all many times to get a life , find other interests
MY ANSWER:
We have, we have a lot of interests! I am not going to tell you my profession. It does not have anything to do with our topic.
But why are so worried about our other activities? Answer our questions and there you go!!!
post any other things on TIG , share with any other contribution to the site , but you didnt
because , may be , your way of education learned you that the dialouge is moving in only one way ,that is your way
and you didnt even hear to my advice
MY ANSWER:
What is your advice? Not asking any questions and talking about Lord of The Rings!!!?
and you use the same way i told you about
change it please , because we are bored ,
MY ANSWER:
But we are not. I did not see any logical response from your side to my questions, if you do not know the answers, do not comment! Who forced you to do that? If you know, I am listening!
promise
i will not read any of your old ways of replies , unless you change it
and i will not reply to this as well
deal?????
great
MY ANSWER:
My concern is my questions. If you can not answer them ask somebody who is more knowledgeable to come and answer them. Is it a big request?
so, check other links in TIG , you will find it a wonderful site for tolerence
not only the discussions that you post your hatered to islam , speak about any things else
i told one of your friends to talk about the movies , you will really like it
MY ANSWER:
And you will feel free avoiding the questions?
you are free to hate any thing , but dont judge the reaction
MY ANSWER:
I do not hate anyone. I am still thinking, I might be wrong in some of my assumptions but which one, do you know? Do you care?
by the way XYZ
all the examples you said is untrue , false , not logic or happend in the real world
MY ANSWER:
Please be specific. Which one? Show me your documents and proofs!
by the way ,
i am a muslim , in a country that about 90% are muslims
i have many christian friends ,and some times many of them thinks that i am chrisitan
you got it
NO DIFERENCES
MY ANSWER:
Good for you. But it did not answer my questions.
dont say any thing you dont understand
and if , and only if , it happend from one muslim in the world that have 1.2 billion muslim , that he treated a non muslim with a bad way
that is his own problem
not the problem of the religon that treated the other 1.199,999,999 billion to treat the non muslim in a good way
MY ANSWER:
Still no answer to my 12 Questions!!!
dr no
yes you do , all of you use false translation and fake sites for translating the quran
and you use a few no. of fake sites about islam , i wonder , how and organized people like you all dont know many sites , to make a cocktail of sources
if you need help in that , i can help you , i have a thousand site that attack islam , and right false information about the religion as if they are muslim speaking
even some times they use the name a famouse well known religous people to say many things they didnt say in the real life
about the hadith , bukhary , him self is not false , he is true , and all what he said is true
but about what you have been posted , it wasent written by bukhary , it was written by you , and the one ( i dont know ) that post it on the internet
and this is truly false , and not related to any islamic word
if you need a good islamic site visit islamweb.net , they have an english link if any body want to see it
what you do is you choose some few parts , with out understanding , and you say that it is bla bla , and you dont show all the related items to this , and why this happend , and for whom
so you confuse the reader about what is written in reality
it is old way , i recomend that you all stop of that
and you do the same to what the TIG members said , as well as the religous words
about the hebrew part , i will reply it to you in hebrew , and waiting for your reply
slikha
ani lo yakhol leqoreeh ma atta koteev
va ani khoshev qe atta lo meveen meleem achdoot
va ani lo ohev ma atta po-eil
toda leekha
and dont ever think that you can deny that all of the members of my list , have a common thing in between
and all of you from the same group
because
it is unlogic that a person joined the site in 18 - jan
and replies to a topic sent on 15 - jan
thats mean ,
1- he is fully interested
2- he have time machine
3- he is a magician
4- he is an internet server
5- he is a harddesk
6- his operating machine is tooooooo old
7- A MEMBER ON TIG SENT HIM THE DISCUSSION AND HE KNOWS EVERY THING HAPPEND , SO HE GET TO REPLY
and for XYS again
i am really interested with the translation you post , and also to the historical information you did
MY ANSWER:
Thank you very much.
it seems really very bad , i dont like it , and i agree with you
MY ANSWER:
Again, thank you.
but the question no is
what is the religion you are talking about , please tell me , because i didnt hear about a religion that says those information
really i dont know
and where is the countries that you said that happend it those information
MY ANSWER:
Please be specific! Please quote.
i think some body cheated you , those information happend on a planet called ( lsfdhjg luiaslifusdgailbf )
not on earth
MY ANSWER:
Which information? Which one?
and if it happend on earth , and if there is a religion that sayed so
i agree with you toooootaly
MY ANSWER:
Which one?
and for the people who read that
what i have learnt , in islam
if you need to be a good man ( in a religous logic ) you must set slaves free
MY ANSWER:
But why you are free to go and have more slaves?
thats before abraham lincoln beleive in that idea after 1300 years of what said in ISLAM
and i think that black slaves problems happend in europe and america , and every body knows that
but finnaly it ends
and nothing of those false information happend in the islamic world EVER
MY ANSWER:
Do you have any proof for that?
what you said didnt happend in reality
may be it happend ( as i told you ) in another planet
i am impressed of your space knowlege
good point , congratulation , keed the good work
i dont reply by copy and paste articles not mine , you did it , all of you , not me
for the marraige issue
we learnt in islam to be polite
so
there is many things prophite Mohamed should learn the women about many things , how to deal with
so
this young little girl , will learn a great knowledge from the source
and then , she will teach the other women and girls how to deal with this
and that also mean that the women could be a teacher in the religon issues ( so what you said is totaly false )
thats mean
that she will live longer after he dies , so , she can teach the women for more longer time about what they have to behave in their life with their families and thier health
and he didnt marry her for the unpolite and unlogic reasons that you said
in the movie ( THE 13th WARRIOR )
ANTONIO BANDERAS ( as the arabien warrior )
said to one of the other european warriors in the movies
( at least , i know my father )
i think you got my point
for what you say it happend now
and it is illigal to marry a girl under the age , in all the islamic world
you need to have the information from the real source
but you said so ,
because you didnt have the opportunity to learn from a good source
so i will consider you as a less opportunity member
by the way
it is not hard to make the list
it is toooooooo easy
because you are obvious to any one
and thanks for you smart help
yea , take it global , not take it personal
thats all
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r g
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Re:
January 26, 2004 - 09:38 AM
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Originally posted by sumbul236
i think these verses fit on those in ur list
ah blame everbody else for the troubles youve made for yourselves.
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r g
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Re:
January 26, 2004 - 09:42 AM
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Originally posted by sumbul236
When they meet those who believe, they say: "We believe;" but when they are alone with their evil ones, they say: "We are really with you: We (were) only jesting."
That certainly doesnt fall on us. There is no way we are gonna pretend believing a pedophile like Mohammed.
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xyz
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Re:
January 26, 2004 - 12:09 PM
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Dear aymanelhakea,
Thank you for response
Who can say that every one labeled "Muslim" represents Islam?
What about Prophet Muhammad?
First, Imam Mizra is not someone to be followed by Mulsims.
Say that in Iran, I am very interested to see the reaction of your fellow Muslim brothers!!!!
BTW it is not Mirza or Merza or Mizra!! It is Reza!
Second, it is not up to children to interpret the Qur'an, researchers spend years to achieve PhDs in "Tafseer" and "Shari'a".
FYI those are not my translations or interpretations! If you believe those children in http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/ did not do a good job, let us know of the the correct ones!
You might bring those researcher or send my questions to them or read their books and enlighten us! If you believe you are not qualified enough, then I should ask my questions from somebody else.
Third, concern yourselves with your own problems first.
And let you go not dealing with questions? Thanks for the advice anyway!
Fourth, please make some effort to find more about my replies on those controversial issues in the other conflict discussion threads; because I don't have to copy-past them everywhere, this this is not a good idea. you may change your mind......anyway I have to make my mind, as I always do; I will quote one of my previous posts:
Thank you, actually I read it before but it did not answer even one of my 12 questions. Please answer them one by one.
Thanks again and have a nice day.
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Endless Quest
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January 26, 2004 - 12:35 PM
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When it is said to them: "Make not mischief on the earth," they say: "Why, we only Want to make peace!"
Of a surety, they are the ones who make mischief, but they realise (it) not.
When it is said to them: "Believe as the others believe:" They say: "Shall we believe as the fools believe?" Nay, of a surety they are the fools, but they do not know.
When they meet those who believe, they say: "We believe;" but when they are alone with their evil ones, they say: "We are really with you: We (were) only jesting."
Allah will throw back their mockery on them, and give them rope in their trespasses; so they will wander like blind ones (To and fro).
These are they who have bartered Guidance for error: But their traffic is profitless, and they have lost true direction,
Surah Bakara(10-16)
sso i think hytmem what do u think about it
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Endless Quest
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January 26, 2004 - 12:48 PM
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i think these verses fit on those in ur list
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Saladin
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Re:
January 27, 2004 - 05:21 AM
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I see,
Muhammad (pbuh)is a pedophile?
uh huh....
Qur'an anticipated this behavior:
<<015.006
YUSUFALI: They say: "O thou to whom the Message is being revealed! truly thou art mad (or possessed)!
PICKTHAL: And they say: O thou unto whom the Reminder is revealed, lo! thou art indeed a madman!
SHAKIR: And they say: O you to whom the Reminder has been revealed! you are most surely insane:>>
<<026>>
<<068.001
YUSUFALI: Nun. By the Pen and the (Record) which (men) write,-
PICKTHAL: Nun. By the pen and that which they write (therewith),
SHAKIR: Noon. I swear by the pen and what the angels write,
068.002
YUSUFALI: Thou art not, by the Grace of thy Lord, mad or possessed.
PICKTHAL: Thou art not, for thy Lord's favour unto thee, a madman.
SHAKIR: By the grace of your Lord you are not mad.>>
<<037>>
<<081>>
<<" Lo! We have given thee Abundance; So pray unto they Lord, and sacrifice. Lo! It is thy insulter (and not thou) who is without posterity." (Al- Kauther 1-3)>>
Do you think that insulting religious symbols of Islam is the best way to lead Muslims out of Islam?
I think we need more than "faithfreedom" to avoid this intolerant and sophist behavior.
xyz-Sorry not to cooperate, you can find the answers for yourself by just searching: I am not a Quran interpreter;I know that you won't change your opinion, this is clear from your way of writing, anyway you can check those links:
Slavery:http://www.islam4all.com/islamand.htm
http://www.speednet.com.au/~keysar/noslave.htm
Wives of Mohammed :
http://www.themodernreligion.com/prophet/prophet.html
A professional non-Muslims embryologist speaks about embryology in Qur'an:
http://al-shia.com/html/eng/quran/article/miracle&challenge-of-quran.htm
Interesting features of Qur'an:
http://home.istar.ca/~tajeri/suratorder.html
http://www.submission.org/miracle/endless.html
More than 150 articles about the scientific miracle of the Qur'an on this page: http://www.islamicmedicine.org/nonmedical.htm
Who cares for Mizra, Mirza, or Riza, I can go to any place in the world and oppose him; have you ever tried going to Iran and opposing him? My uncle works in Teheran, he has many Iranian friends who oppose Riza, nothing has happened to them. Stop counting on stereotypes please.
If you have a basic knowledge of Arabic, you can find that there are two "prepositions" refering to the english preposition "then", one of them is called "Fa" and the other one is called "Thumma". When I say that I was reading "Fa" the telephone rang, it means at the same time, although translated as "then". When I say that I was reading, "Thumma" the telephone rang; it means that after I had finished reading, the telephone rang.When it is said in the verse "FA" Kasawna al-'Ithama Lahman="Fa" we covered bones with flesh; it means that they are created in the same time, in a pattern in which flesh covers bones. Moreover, you have to consider that science of today is not that certain 100% fact, read something by Feynman on that issue.
For Mohammed marrying 9 years-old Aisha, this was a pan-Arab custom and tradition; if you have taken an Arab Society course, they should have told you that in the Old Arab Society,when someone is married to a child: It is not a permission for him to start sexual intercourse with her, but it is a kind of preservation for him, until she attains maturity.I sounds illogic when we measure 1400 years old Arab customs according to UNICEF standards. Moreover, this is not something to be made by todays Muslims, because nothing was said in the Qur'an or the Sunnah that obliges or forbids this kind of apparent marriage. However, Imam Ali, the Prophet's cousin said: "Don't force your children on your customs, they have their time, and you have yours".
It really doesn't matter if you like Islam or not: It is the most worldwide spreading religion today, however, it is not necessary that everyone likes it.
Peace!
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Re:
January 27, 2004 - 08:40 AM
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post removed due to disrespectful content.
Your Moderator
Brian
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Brian Smith
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Re:
January 28, 2004 - 02:28 AM
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This Discussion is a repeat of that in another thread. Please continue this in that arena.
http://www.takingitglobal.org/discuss/showthread.html?s=&threadid=5514
Thanks
Your Moderator Brian
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