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Roshan Perera
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Re: What's been going on??? (Continuing Islamic discussions)
March 29, 2004 - 03:21 AM
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**Edited by Hugh 3.30.04**
Please. This is the last time I want to find this. Link to the articles, and try to refrain from cross posting.
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private
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Re: What's been going on??? (Continuing Islamic discussions)
March 29, 2004 - 03:55 AM
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In earlier statement, you say all muslim should follow Muhammad and expected to be like him: yea who say that. I never find it in Quran. Or is it that one of the Mullas told you!!!
Cordoba,
These were easy enough to find.
There are more but these should suffice to get the point across.
Quran:
[4.80] Whoever obeys the Apostle, he indeed obeys Allah, and whoever turns back, so We have not sent you as a keeper over them.
[3.32] Say: Obey Allah and the Apostle; but if they turn back, then surely Allah does not love the unbelievers.
[3.132] And obey Allah and the Apostle, that you may be shown mercy.
[4.13] These are Allah's limits, and whoever obeys Allah and His Apostle, He will cause him to enter gardens beneath which rivers flow, to abide in them; and this is the great achievement.
[4.59] O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Apostle and those in authority from among you; then if you quarrel about anything, refer it to Allah and the Apostle, if you believe in Allah and the last day; this is better and very good in the end.
[4.69] And whoever obeys Allah and the Apostle, these are with those upon whom Allah has bestowed favors from among the prophets and the truthful and the martyrs and the good, and a goodly company are they!
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Islamic Scholars
March 29, 2004 - 04:27 AM
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Originally posted by TheCodoba
you can speak to islamic scholers who can explain you better. There are also some islamic websites where you can post your question, islamic expert will answer you...
Here is an example of what islamic scholars say about kaafirs.
Question #27211: Should he go back and live in a kaafir country?
http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=27211&dgn=4
... There are two basic conditions which must be met before staying in kaafir countries:
The first condition is: that the person must be secure in his religious commitment, so that he has enough knowledge, faith and will power to ensure that he will adhere firmly to his religion and beware of deviating or going astray, and that he has an attitude of enmity and hatred of the kaafirs and will not befriend them and love them, for befriending them and loving them are things that contradicts faith.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Islam Q&A (www.islam-qa.com)
* according to www.alminbar.com, an online council for imaams *
www.alminbar.com:
Quote:
The site is being supervised by a distinguished team of students of knowledge. They are graduates of Islamic universities and Institutes of Hadeeth from Saudi Arabia, and specialized in different fields of knowledge.
Here's one of their friday sermons:
Disbelievers-Their Characteristics & Status In The Hereafter
http://www.alminbar.com/khutbaheng/1819.htm
Quote:
.... the Prophet said: “Whenever Allaah hates a slave, He calls Jibreel and says, ‘O Jibreel! I, indeed, hate so-and-so therefore you must also hate him.Then Jibreel will hate him and proclaim to the inhabitants of the heaven that Allaah hates so-and-so, therefore they too should hate him, then the inhabitants of the heaven will hate him, and his hatred will then be spread among the inhabitants of the earth.” (Al-Bukhaaree & Muslim).
Lifeless objects decry Kaafir disbelief and the Blessed Land will eject them in the End of Time. Stones and trees will say, “O Muslim! Here is a Kaafir!”
The Kaafir is the worst of Allaah’s creatures. He says: “They are the worst of creatures.” (Al-Bayyinah: 6).
When a Kaafir dies, the whole of humanity are relieved.
Dear Muslims! Emulating a people in their outward dispositions necessitates emulating them in their inner characters. Emulating the first generation of this ummah who are the Sahaabah and at-Taabi’een increases one in intellect, religiosity and good conduct while emulating the non-Muslims in their outward characteristics leads to emulating them in their conducts and ugly deeds. It also makes one love them. Therefore differ from idolaters and disbelievers in their behaviour and opinions and beware of taking them as friends. You should hate them, disown them and their religion and be proud of your religion. Strive for their guidance and call them to Islaam.
_________________
visit:
http://muslim-quotes.netfirms.com/obligedtohate.html
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Hasan
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Re: What's been going on??? (Continuing Islamic discussions)
March 30, 2004 - 01:08 AM
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Originally posted by porky
[QUOTE]
[B]In earlier statement, you say all muslim should follow Muhammad and expected to be like him: yea who say that. I never find it in Quran. Or is it that one of the Mullas told you!!!
Cordoba,
These were easy enough to find.
There are more but these should suffice to get the point across.
Quran:
[4.80] Whoever obeys the Apostle, he indeed obeys Allah, and whoever turns back, so We have not sent you as a keeper over them.
[3.32] Say: Obey Allah and the Apostle; but if they turn back, then surely Allah does not love the unbelievers.
[3.132] And obey Allah and the Apostle, that you may be shown mercy.
[4.13] These are Allah's limits, and whoever obeys Allah and His Apostle, He will cause him to enter gardens beneath which rivers flow, to abide in them; and this is the great achievement.
[4.59] O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Apostle and those in authority from among you; then if you quarrel about anything, refer it to Allah and the Apostle, if you believe in Allah and the last day; this is better and very good in the end.
[4.69] And whoever obeys Allah and the Apostle, these are with those upon whom Allah has bestowed favors from among the prophets and the truthful and the martyrs and the good, and a goodly company are they!
[/B][/QUOTE]
Porky, you may need look at dictionary for the meaning of the word "follow" and "obey".
Follow or like to be someone or want to become someone and OBEY someone is totally different thing.
I am not a English speaker, a Bengali speaker, but I understand the meaning...
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Re: What's been going on??? (Continuing Islamic discussions)
March 30, 2004 - 04:55 AM
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Originally posted by TheCodoba
[QUOTE]Originally posted by porky
[B][QUOTE]
[B]In earlier statement, you say all muslim should follow Muhammad and expected to be like him: yea who say that. I never find it in Quran. Or is it that one of the Mullas told you!!!
Cordoba,
These were easy enough to find.
There are more but these should suffice to get the point across.
Quran:
[4.80] Whoever obeys the Apostle, he indeed obeys Allah, and whoever turns back, so We have not sent you as a keeper over them.
[3.32] Say: Obey Allah and the Apostle; but if they turn back, then surely Allah does not love the unbelievers.
[3.132] And obey Allah and the Apostle, that you may be shown mercy.
[4.13] These are Allah's limits, and whoever obeys Allah and His Apostle, He will cause him to enter gardens beneath which rivers flow, to abide in them; and this is the great achievement.
[4.59] O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Apostle and those in authority from among you; then if you quarrel about anything, refer it to Allah and the Apostle, if you believe in Allah and the last day; this is better and very good in the end.
[4.69] And whoever obeys Allah and the Apostle, these are with those upon whom Allah has bestowed favors from among the prophets and the truthful and the martyrs and the good, and a goodly company are they!
[/B][/QUOTE]
Porky, you may need look at dictionary for the meaning of the word "follow" and "obey".
Follow or like to be someone or want to become someone and OBEY someone is totally different thing.
I am not a English speaker, a Bengali speaker, but I understand the meaning...
[/B][/QUOTE]
What do you do TheCodoba, follow Mohammed, obey Mohammed, or both or neither?
Do you like, or want to be as Mohammed?
Do you think that Mohammed is a better example to follow than the prophet Jesus?
I have alkready posted some ayats about "obeying" Mohammed.
Here are some Quranic ayats about "following", there are many more.
[3.53] Our Lord! we believe in what Thou hast revealed and we follow the apostle, so write us down with those who bear witness.
[6.90] These are they whom Allah guided, therefore follow their guidance. Say: I do not ask you for any reward for it; it is nothing but a reminder to the nations.
[8.64] O Prophet! Allah is sufficient for you and (for) such of the believers as follow you.
[7.157] Those who follow the Apostle-Prophet, the Ummi, whom they find written down with them in the Taurat and the Injeel (who) enjoins them good and forbids them evil, and makes lawful to them the good things and makes unlawful to them impure things, and removes from them their burden and the shackles which were upon them; so (as for) those who believe in him and honor him and help him, and follow the light which has been sent down with him, these it is that are the successful.
[2.143] And thus We have made you a medium (just) nation that you may be the bearers of witness to the people and (that) the Apostle may be a bearer of witness to you; and We did not make that which you would have to be the qiblah but that We might distinguish him who follows the Apostle from him who turns back upon his heels, and this was surely hard except for those whom Allah has guided aright; and Allah was not going to make your faith to be fruitless; most surely Allah is Affectionate, Merciful to the people.
[3.20] But if they dispute with you, say: I have submitted myself entirely to Allah and (so) every one who follows me; and say to those who have been given the Book and the unlearned people: Do you submit yourselves? So if they submit then indeed they follow the right way; and if they turn back, then upon you is only the delivery of the message and Allah sees the servants.
[3.31] Say: If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, MercifuL
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Hasan
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Re: What's been going on??? (Continuing Islamic discussions)
March 30, 2004 - 06:44 AM
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Originally posted by porky
What do you do TheCodoba, follow Mohammed, obey Mohammed, or both or neither?
Do you like, or want to be as Mohammed?
Do you think that Mohammed is a better example to follow than the prophet Jesus?
I have alkready posted some ayats about "obeying" Mohammed.
Here are some Quranic ayats about "following", there are many more.
[3.53] Our Lord! we believe in what Thou hast revealed and we follow the apostle, so write us down with those who bear witness.
[6.90] These are they whom Allah guided, therefore follow their guidance. Say: I do not ask you for any reward for it; it is nothing but a reminder to the nations.
[8.64] O Prophet! Allah is sufficient for you and (for) such of the believers as follow you.
[7.157] Those who follow the Apostle-Prophet, the Ummi, whom they find written down with them in the Taurat and the Injeel (who) enjoins them good and forbids them evil, and makes lawful to them the good things and makes unlawful to them impure things, and removes from them their burden and the shackles which were upon them; so (as for) those who believe in him and honor him and help him, and follow the light which has been sent down with him, these it is that are the successful.
[2.143] And thus We have made you a medium (just) nation that you may be the bearers of witness to the people and (that) the Apostle may be a bearer of witness to you; and We did not make that which you would have to be the qiblah but that We might distinguish him who follows the Apostle from him who turns back upon his heels, and this was surely hard except for those whom Allah has guided aright; and Allah was not going to make your faith to be fruitless; most surely Allah is Affectionate, Merciful to the people.
[3.20] But if they dispute with you, say: I have submitted myself entirely to Allah and (so) every one who follows me; and say to those who have been given the Book and the unlearned people: Do you submit yourselves? So if they submit then indeed they follow the right way; and if they turn back, then upon you is only the delivery of the message and Allah sees the servants.
[3.31] Say: If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, MercifuL
[/B]
Here the word follow mean to "obey", not to be like him, or not expect to be like him. It would be listening to him and his command. So don't confuse with English translation..
if you ask me, I would obey not to be like him..
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Re: What's been going on??? (Continuing Islamic discussions)
March 30, 2004 - 09:30 AM
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Originally posted by TheCodoba
[QUOTE]Originally posted by porky
What do you do TheCodoba, follow Mohammed, obey Mohammed, or both or neither?
Do you like, or want to be as Mohammed?
Do you think that Mohammed is a better example to follow than the prophet Jesus?
[b]I have alkready posted some ayats about "obeying" Mohammed.
Here are some Quranic ayats about "following", there are many more.
[3.53] Our Lord! we believe in what Thou hast revealed and we follow the apostle, so write us down with those who bear witness.
[6.90] These are they whom Allah guided, therefore follow their guidance. Say: I do not ask you for any reward for it; it is nothing but a reminder to the nations.
[8.64] O Prophet! Allah is sufficient for you and (for) such of the believers as follow you.
[7.157] Those who follow the Apostle-Prophet, the Ummi, whom they find written down with them in the Taurat and the Injeel (who) enjoins them good and forbids them evil, and makes lawful to them the good things and makes unlawful to them impure things, and removes from them their burden and the shackles which were upon them; so (as for) those who believe in him and honor him and help him, and follow the light which has been sent down with him, these it is that are the successful.
[2.143] And thus We have made you a medium (just) nation that you may be the bearers of witness to the people and (that) the Apostle may be a bearer of witness to you; and We did not make that which you would have to be the qiblah but that We might distinguish him who follows the Apostle from him who turns back upon his heels, and this was surely hard except for those whom Allah has guided aright; and Allah was not going to make your faith to be fruitless; most surely Allah is Affectionate, Merciful to the people.
[3.20] But if they dispute with you, say: I have submitted myself entirely to Allah and (so) every one who follows me; and say to those who have been given the Book and the unlearned people: Do you submit yourselves? So if they submit then indeed they follow the right way; and if they turn back, then upon you is only the delivery of the message and Allah sees the servants.
[3.31] Say: If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, MercifuL
[/B]
Here the word follow mean to "obey", not to be like him, or not expect to be like him. It would be listening to him and his command. So don't confuse with English translation..
if you ask me, I would obey not to be like him..
[/B][/QUOTE]
Dear Thecodoba,
Now this is getting confusing, you said.............
"Porky, you may need look at dictionary for the meaning of the word "follow" and "obey".
Follow or like to be someone or want to become someone and OBEY someone is totally different thing.
Then you say............
"Here the word follow mean to obey"
Please clarify your position on this.
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Cicero
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Re: What's been going on??? (Continuing Islamic discussions)
March 31, 2004 - 01:33 AM
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If there is anbody which can expalin what FOLOWING means is that person me.
Following means to be involved into fulfilling given instructions by the commanding one. Commanding one is anybody at the given time which is giving you a certain order to fulfill. Has to be alive in order to keep regular contact with all involved.
Following is opposite of beleiving. Following demands clear knowing of things, confirmed by firm proofs.
Ave Futuria
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Hasan
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Re: What's been going on??? (Continuing Islamic discussions)
March 31, 2004 - 12:32 PM
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If you recall one of your comments, where you mentioned "Muslims are taught to be like Muhammad and follow muhammad". I would like to rephrase your statement from what I understand is : Quran and Hadis's translation of the word follow means "muslims are taught to obey Muhammad and his command, not to follow to be like him". the meaning of this two word is very close, but it in this paragraph it makes different.NOW lets see why it makes different:"if I recall and try to paraphrase what YOu said is: Muhammad married nine year old while he was 50s. you also asked if would you give marriage your daughter with a fifty year old man to follow Muhammad. and you said other muslims should follow Muhammad(you meant to say all 50 year old muslim men's marrying a nine year old girl". Here I want to distinguish the word folow is "not to follow someone what exactly he/she was". Under whatever circumstance he married 9 year old(we already discussed in this thread, I will not further talk about it), Muhammad never said that every muslim should marry 9 year old when they are in their 50s. Therefore, You cann't follow to be like muhaamad, b/c he was a messanger of God, but you can respect and obey his command. If you try to follow Jesus, exactly what he was doing, he would end up being crucified--lol.
Porky, I think I clarified enough why I want to distiguish the meaning of this two different words.
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