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Ashley
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Why are most Americans now discrimatory towards Muslims, and Middle Eatern people??
January 19, 2004 - 01:14 AM
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I myself am American and I'm a very accepting person. I never have been racist and no event could make me turn racist. But it seems that after the 9/11 attacks on America, Americans are now afraid of and prejudiced towards any middle eastern man or woman. I don't understand this.
I believe that just because it happened to be Muslim men who attacked our country does not mean that all Muslims in the world are out to get us. Why do people believe that ALL Muslims are out to get Americans just because of what 20 Muslims did?
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Mariouma
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Re: Why are most Americans now discrimatory towards Muslims, and Middle Eatern people??
January 19, 2004 - 01:10 AM
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What's the real purpose of religions, isn't first of all to make it easier for human beeings to live together in peace and harmony...I think there's no doubt about this concerning Islam, evryone knows that man could interpret anything to his benefit. The real problem is that good muslims do no longer know what to do, whether to defend their believes and betray the "islamic" unity, or to keep quite and participate to the injustice.
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Ashley
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Re: Why are most Americans now discrimatory towards Muslims, and Middle Eatern people??
January 19, 2004 - 01:24 AM
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I've read all your replies and I think we should definatly continue to watch national news and such but don't always 100% believe everything they say. Do some research yourself to find the whole truth.
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Brian Smith
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Re: Why are most Americans now discrimatory towards Muslims, and Middle Eatern people??
January 19, 2004 - 01:36 AM
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Doctor No:
Please stop taking quotes out of context and twisting their meanings.
I encourage everyone to read the articles that he posted. They are full of good information about what the real answers are.
The only one of the three that isn't twisted is the quote from the Imam, but that has to do with the Palestinian conflict and not with Islam as a whole. He did condemn any attacks outside of Israel. (I do not condone any attacks, but neither side is innocent of atrocities in this battle).
If you continue to quote out of context, you do not show respect. Threads are not being locked for no reason.
Please re-read those to understand why they have been locked.
Thanks
Your new Moderator Brian
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r g
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Re: Why are most Americans now discrimatory towards Muslims, and Middle Eatern people??
January 19, 2004 - 01:59 AM
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Originally posted by Brian
Doctor No:
Please stop taking quotes out of context and twisting their meanings.
I encourage everyone to read the articles that he posted. They are full of good information about what the real answers are.
In what way did I twist their meanings? Just because I quoted only the hateful message? I was just trying to get to the point. Anyway sure i'll post the whole thingie.
Answer :
Praise be to Allaah.
It is permissible to have iftaar with non-Muslims if there is a shar’i reason for doing so, such as calling them to the true religion, or softening their hearts towards Islam, etc, which are what is hoped for if they come and eat iftaar at the tables set up for communal iftaar, as happens in some countries. But if it is done just to be friendly towards them and enjoy their company, this is a dangerous matter, because the principle of al-wala’ wa’l-bara’ (befriending the believers and showing enmity towards the disbelievers) is one of the basic principles of Islam, and one of the most important duties of the believers. This principle is referred to in a number of verses in the Book of Allaah and ahaadeeth of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), for example:
Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“You (O Muhammad) will not find any people who believe in Allaah and the Last Day, making friendship with those who oppose Allaah and His Messenger (Muhammad), even though they were their fathers or their sons or their brothers or their kindred (people). For such He has written Faith in their hearts, and strengthened them with Rooh (proofs, light and true guidance) from Himself. And He will admit them to Gardens (Paradise) under which rivers flow, to dwell therein (forever). Allaah is pleased with them, and they with Him. They are the party of Allaah. Verily, it is the party of Allaah that will be the successful”
[al-Mujaadilah 58:22]
“O you who believe! Take not for Awliyaa’ (protectors or helpers or friends) disbelievers instead of believers. Do you wish to offer Allaah a manifest proof against yourselves?”
[al-Nisa’ 4:144]
“O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Awliyaa’ (friends, protectors, helpers), they are but Awliyaa’ of each other. And if any amongst you takes them (as Awliyaa’), then surely, he is one of them. Verily, Allaah guides not those people who are the Zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers and unjust)”
[al-Maa'idah 5:51]
“O you who believe! Take not as (your) Bitaanah (advisors, consultants, protectors, helpers, friends) those outside your religion (pagans, Jews, Christians, and hypocrites) since they will not fail to do their best to corrupt you. They desire to harm you severely. Hatred has already appeared from their mouths, but what their breasts conceal is far worse. Indeed We have made plain to you the Ayaat (proofs, evidences, verses) if you understand”
[Aal ‘Imraan 3:118]
Based on this, the ruling on gathering with these people for iftaar depends on the intention. And Allaah knows best.
Islam Q&A (www.islam-qa.com)
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=38125&dgn=4
Ok so whats the good information there? What is tolerant and loving in that?
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r g
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Re: Why are most Americans now discrimatory towards Muslims, and Middle Eatern people??
January 19, 2004 - 02:06 AM
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http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=2322&dgn=4
Question :
Is wearing jeans considered imitating the kuffar or is it
ok?
Answer :
Praise be to Allaah.
Imitating means trying to be like someone, which the fuqahaa' understand to mean being similar in a certain way to the person whom one is imitating. The Muslim is not permitted to imitate the kuffaar by wearing clothing that is unique to them and for which they are known, like the belt worn by Christian monks, or the distinctive headgear of Magians (Zoroastrians) and Jews, because of the hadeeth of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): "Whoever imitates a people is one of them." (Reported by Abu Dawood, 4/314).
The scholars have specified that the prohibition of imitation applies in two cases:
1. Where what is imitated is clothing that is characteristic of the kuffaar, not things that are worn by others too or things that used to be distinct to them but have now become widespread among other groups too - like the jeans referred to in the question.
2. When the act of imitation happens at a time when the clothing in question is characteristic of the kuffaar. This is because al-Haafiz Ibn Hajar (may Allaah have mercy on him) reported that Anas (may Allaah be pleased with him) saw some people wearing shawl-like garments over their heads and shoulders, and said, "They look like the Jews of Khaybar." Ibn Hajar commented: "This could be used as evidence that this kind of garment was characteristic of the Jews at that time, but this is no longer the case, so that garment is now counted as something that is in general permitted." (Fath al-Baari, 10/275).
The scholars also made an exception concerning Muslims wearing the distinctive clothes of the kuffaar when living in daar al-harb (non-Muslim countries which are at war with Muslims) or for purposes which will benefit the Muslims. Shaykh al-Islaam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:
"When a Muslim is living in a non-Muslim land (whether or not it is hostile to Islam), he is not expected to differ from them (the kuffaar) in his outward appearance, because of the harm that may result (from dressing as a Muslim). It is preferable, even obligatory, for a man to look like them sometimes, if that will achieve some religious purpose such as calling them to Islam, finding out their secrets in order to tell the Muslims about them, repelling their harm from the Muslims, and other worthwhile aims. But in the Muslim lands where Allaah has caused His religion to prevail, and where the kuffaar are in an inferior position and are paying jizyah (taxes paid by non-Muslims living under an Islamic government), it is obligatory for Muslims to look different from the kuffaar." (Iqtidaa' al-Siraat al-Mustaqeem, 1/418).
It is clear from the above that jeans are not clothes that are characteristic of the kuffaar or worn only by them, so they are not haraam. However, it is more befitting for the Muslim to try to wear distinctive Islamic dress wherever he is, in obedience to the way of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). The Muslim should feel in his heart that he hates the kuffaar and the way they look and behave. This hatred will motivate him to avoid looking like them at all in the way he dresses or in other ways. Do you not see that a person who despises a people or tribe, or people from a certain country, will hate to dress like them, especially if they are poor. As Shaykh al-Islam (Ibn Taymiyah) said: "Looking like them in external appearance indicates that one loves them in one's heart, and vice versa." And Allaah knows best.
Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid (www.islam-qa.com)
Ok so what is the excuse to hate us non-muslims and the way we "distinctively" look? Yes the context of that is "jeans" but MY point is the hatred inserted there.
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r g
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Re: Why are most Americans now discrimatory towards Muslims, and Middle Eatern people??
January 19, 2004 - 02:16 AM
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Originally posted by Brian
but that has to do with the Palestinian conflict and not with Islam as a whole.
The Italian authorities did not see it that way though. The point there was that the imam was promoting hatred and destruction. A hate message is a hate message whether or not it is only for blacks, asians, filipinos or jews.
Besides, would you hear a priest, pastor, or rabbi publicly praying for the death of their enemies? no you would hear them praying for peace and the forgiveness of their enemies.
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sean jayasekara
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Re: Why are most Americans now discrimatory towards Muslims, and Middle Eatern people??
January 19, 2004 - 02:22 AM
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Doctor No, what do you think of this taken from one of your favourite websites?
Howcome you've never posted this before?
It contradicts one of the answers to a question previously on the site - Just shows the many different ways people can interpret the Quran or any other religious book for that matter!
Really it is an illustration of the stubborn one sided view you have on this whole subject!
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=47086&dgn=4
Question :
I have recently started practicing and I am trying to repent from the bad things I have done previously. I understand that I must put right any wrong to any Muslim I may have done. What about non-muslims? I have been told that they refuse Islam and so they have no honour. If for example I have stolen from them, should I return this knowing that I may face criminal prosecutions by the non - Muslims? What should I do with those things that belong to non-muslims?.
Answer :
Praise be to Allaah.
Thirdly: with regard to taking a kaafir’s wealth by means of betrayal and cheating, this is haraam, because betrayal is haraam in Islam whether one deceives a Muslim or a kaafir.
Al-Bukhaari (2583) narrated from al-Mugheerah ibn Shu’bah that he had accompanied some people during the Jaahiliyyah, and he killed them and took their wealth. Then he came and embraced Islam, and the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “As for your Islam it is accepted, but as for the wealth I want nothing of it.” According to a version narrated by Abu Dawood (2765): “As for your Islam, we accept it, but as for the wealth, it is wealth obtained through betrayal and we have no need of it.” Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.
Al-Haafiz ibn Hajar said: The words “but as for the wealth I want nothing of it” mean that he did not want it because al-Mugheerah had taken it by means of betrayal. It may be understood from this that it is not permissible to take the wealth of the kuffaar at times of peace by means of betrayal, because friends keep company on a basis of trust, and trusts are to be rendered back to their owners, whether they are Muslims or kaafirs. It is permissible to take the wealth of kaafirs in cases of war, but the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) sometimes held onto wealth (instead of distributing it as war booty) in the hope that its owners would become Muslims, then he could return their wealth to them. Fath al-Baari, 5/341.
An example of betrayal is when a kaafir has entered a Muslin country in safety, or a Muslim has entered a kaafir country in safety (for example, with a visa), and what this visa implies is that they guarantee that the person’s life and wealth are protected safe, and by the same token they should also be guaranteed that their lives and wealth are safe, so it is not permissible to commit acts of aggression against them or to confiscate or steal their wealth.
Al-Shaafa’i (may Allaah have mercy on him) said concerning some people who entered the kaafir land and were in a position to take something of their wealth: If a Muslim man entered dar al-harb in safety (i.e., under the protection of the kaafir authorities), and he is able to take something of their wealth, it is not permissible for him to take anything of it, great or small, because if he is safe from them, then they should be safe from him. And it is forbidden to takes property in several cases: (1) if its owner is Muslim, (2) if the owner is living under the protection of the Islamic state, (3) if the owner has been granted protection for a certain period…
We know of the hate some fundamentalists have toward the West, it is well documented; but why does it seem that all you are trying to do is inflame the matter??
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r g
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Re: Why are most Americans now discrimatory towards Muslims, and Middle Eatern people??
January 19, 2004 - 02:37 AM
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Originally posted by sean23
Howcome you've never posted this before?
Nobody asked.
Originally posted by sean23
It contradicts one of the answers to a question previously on the site - Just shows the many different ways people can interpret the Quran or any other religious book for that matter!
Really it is an illustration of the stubborn one sided view you have on this whole subject!
Stubborn one sided? Are you aware of the history of Islam? For 1400 years non-muslims have been subjugated and humiliated under the rule of islam to the point of virtual annihilation. So the muslim opinions I quoted was really in context with Islamic history.
Originally posted by sean23 We know of the hate some fundamentalists have toward the West, it is well documented; but why does it seem that all you are trying to do is inflame the matter??
I was only honestly answering the questions of the thread starter to the best of my knowledge. Is that a bad thing?
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sean jayasekara
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Re: Why are most Americans now discrimatory towards Muslims, and Middle Eatern people??
January 19, 2004 - 02:47 AM
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Doctor No,
Are you aware of the history of mankind?
Are you aware that when the Muslims had the opportunity to either convert or annihilate most of Christian, southern Europe, they didnt use it?
Are you aware that fanatics and extreme Quranic interpretations flourish in times of fear and turmoil?
Are you aware that the Bible really isnt that peaceful a book either?
Do you realise that every religion has had their responsibilities towards serious tragedies against their fellow man?
Have you ever been to a Muslim country?
D you have any Muslim friends?
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r g
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Re: Why are most Americans now discrimatory towards Muslims, and Middle Eatern people??
January 19, 2004 - 03:06 AM
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Peace sean23,
Originally posted by sean23
Are you aware of the history of mankind?
Are you aware that when the Muslims had the opportunity to either convert or annihilate most of Christian, southern Europe, they didnt use it?
I am a great fan of ancient history and what you claim is completely unfounded.
Originally posted by sean23
Are you aware that fanatics and extreme Quranic interpretations flourish in times of fear and turmoil?
What are you getting at?
Originally posted by sean23
Are you aware that the Bible really isnt that peaceful a book either?
so? Im not a christian but I do know the fact that nobody’s ever used bible verses to justify terrorism or atrocities.
Originally posted by sean23
Do you realise that every religion has had their responsibilities towards serious tragedies against their fellow man?
of course. but every other major religion had reformed thus resulting in peace, tolerance and prosperity among its members.
Originally posted by sean23
Have you ever been to a Muslim country?
no.
Originally posted by sean23
D you have any Muslim friends?
Yes. About half a dozen.
Thanks.
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Adnan
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Re: Why are most Americans now discrimatory towards Muslims, and Middle Eatern people??
January 19, 2004 - 03:29 AM
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Please stop taking quotes out of context and twisting their meanings.
"Brian"  ,
If you know the real context, I would be grateful if you can educate us.
thanks
Adnan
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Adnan
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Re: Why are most Americans now discrimatory towards Muslims, and Middle Eatern people??
January 19, 2004 - 03:37 AM
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AshleyWhy do people believe that ALL Muslims are out to get Americans just because of what 20 Muslims did?
- yes, not all Muslims are bad, there are many nice friendly polite ones. I have Muslims in my own family (even though I'm not muslim any longer).
- The actual thing is, Islam contains hatred for non-believers. Christianity also contains *some* but not as much. Its not easy for a common civilian to transform this hatred or dislike into actual violence, only the fanatic people can do it.
3 year old girls in the Middle east are taught Hatred for Jews, read this script (the video is also present here [ http://stream.realimpact.net/rihurl.ram?file=realimpact/memri/memri_10-30-02_01.rm ] if you want to see). Muslims generally hate or atleast dislike Jews - their religions teaches them this (that script is one proof of that).
Host: Basmallah, are you familiar with the Jews?
Basmallah: Yes.
Host: Do you like them?
Basmallah: No.
Host: Why don't you like them?
Basmallah: Because...
Host: Because they are what?
Basmallah: They're apes and pigs.
Host: Because they're apes and pigs? Who said they are so?
Basmallah: Our God.
Host: Where did he say this?
Basmallah: In the Koran.
That 3 year old girl is very adorable and cute, but her beliefs are not.
So again, mass anger against Jews, transforms into some tiny portion of society actually implementing the anger into violence. (its commonly thought USA helps Isreal who are all Jews and thus, US is a friend of the enemy and thus an enemy as well).
thanks
Adnan
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Brian Smith
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Re: Why are most Americans now discrimatory towards Muslims, and Middle Eatern people??
January 19, 2004 - 03:55 AM
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It was my fault to get personally involved in thread. It is my job as a moderator to be objective.
Therefore I have asked others to view this thread, and they have concluded that due to the topic and the fact that nothing constructive is coming from this thread, we believe it has outlived it's usefulness...
Thank you,
Brian
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Britty
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Re: Why are most Americans now discrimatory towards Muslims, and Middle Eatern people??
January 19, 2004 - 10:04 AM
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From a Houstonian's perspective, I have witnessed no attacks on muslims since 911 (verbally, or physically). I, myself, have not persecuted anyone for being the bearer of any such attack on the US. Truthfully, I'm going to give Americans more credit than you have been.
As far as civillian independent people go, Americans have been relatively accepting to the Muslim people. I have known no followers of Islam to be prejiduced towards Americans, and Vice Versa.
As far as the government goes, however, I cannot say that no prejiduce has been shown. I'm not going to get into a long schpiel, but homeland security really needs to brush up a little. This is turning into another pearl harbour, putting the japanese-american citizens into camps... I don't want it to get that far. Just have hope that the government will soon see that not every muslim is a threat to the security of our nation. If you want to categorize them as terrorists, you might as well cast me in as well. Every American citizen is now a threat to the nation.
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