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Jarra McGrath
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Voting for Bush? - The Credibility Gap
January 18, 2004 - 02:41 AM
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I'm interested to know if any US TIG members are planning to vote for Bush in the upcoming elections, or if they know anyone who is?
http://www.house.gov/appropriations_democrats/caughtonfilm.htm
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Brian
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Re: Voting for Bush? - The Credibility Gap
March 3, 2004 - 01:28 AM
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For the record: I didn't vote for "W" last time and definitely won't vote for him this year. I have always found it amazing how many people I meet that didn't vote for him! I actually can't think of anyone who voted for him except maybe for my friend who is a hard-core Republican. I have always refered to him as "the monkey" because he: A) looks like one B) speaks like one...this is why he NEVER debates any real politician C) and acts like one. I am REALLY confused at how he maintains that he is a big Evangelical Christian and always prays about his decisions. Did he pray before he invaded Iraq and then proceeded to give the oil to his buddies in the oil industry? Hmm...
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Cicero
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Re: Voting for Bush? - The Credibility Gap
March 3, 2004 - 01:33 AM
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I would love to (loooooooooool)
But look at my present location
<-------------
Ave Futuria
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b
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Re: Voting for Bush? - The Credibility Gap
March 23, 2004 - 08:35 AM
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No. I do not support Bush in any way. Even though I am only 14 and don't reach the age limit ... =_=;; .. I think Bush's actions during his presidency has been very 'unwise'. I had supported Gore in the last election.. it didn't surprise me that he won the popular vote. It just made me mad when they announced Bush as the president. Darn those electoral VOTEs!! I don't like the democrat guy either. Kerry right? He seems new to the political area. I just don't trust him. I want BOB DOLE.
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Ramz
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Re: Voting for Bush? - The Credibility Gap
March 24, 2004 - 07:17 AM
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thankfully i was born in 1986, so i am able to vote in the upcoming election and not have to wait another 4 years. Even though I am growing up in a very democratic househould, I'm gonna give my vote to Bush. I have a million reasons why, but I dont have the time, but dont get me wrong...there are some things i dont agree with him at all with. Like the fact tha almost none of his personel actually testify in public. (This is not just Condelisa Rice, but other times too), and hiss plans for restricting some rights. (Such as abortion, cell phones, and others). But in my state, my vote won't really matter anyway, but I'm still voting because i believe that its part of being a citizen in the US. But go BUSH'04!
Who would i rather see running for office? Rudy Guiliani, it gives me shivers just thinking that its a possibility!
---> Piss off Liberals, Work hard and be happy <---
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Me
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Re: Voting for Bush? - The Credibility Gap
March 24, 2004 - 11:23 AM
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Given the sort of people TIG attracts, it's not likely there are many Americans lurking around who voted for Bush or are planning on doing so. Granted, there are some exceptions, like the person above me.
That said, it's not hard for me to see why Bush still seems to be the man on top in the upcoming elections. The US, as a whole, is attached to incumbents. If someone is in office, unless a scandal erupts, they're quite likely to remain there. And all the allegations surrounding Bush aren't coming near the level of a scandal here. I can't really understand why, but the only people who are really upset are those who would never have voted for Bush in the first place. Precious few Republicans feel sufficiently lied to that they're willing to break with their party. Bush (perhaps more accurately, Karl Rove), has done a good job of at least one thing-maintaining party unity. So despite the fact that he's poured a tremendous amount of money ($125 billion and counting) offshore, ruining the balanced federal budget he was handed by Clinton, that his administration seems to have lied by another $100 billion about the cost of Medicare, that he hides from the media and gives preplanned press conferences, thereby defeating the entire idea of a press conference, created fake "news" reels to spread his propaganda, has lost the respect or even tolerance of much of the world, et al., he isn't really damaged.
My theory is that someone's doing a wonderful job of handling the media. One would think that any one of these actions would arouse suspicions, let alone everything that's happened recently. People simply don't know- because few people even bother watching the news- or watch news that simply doesn't care itself- focusing on local weather and traffic jams in lieu of the president's mishaps. Really, I don't think we're so different from the current media state in Russia.
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Gray
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Re: Voting for Bush? - The Credibility Gap
March 25, 2004 - 02:44 AM
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The press responses to Bush's inability are generally pushed towards the 'criticism is unpatriotic' frame of reference. consider the Dixie Chicks. If it wasn't for the upsurge in patriotism I wouod say Bush would be writting his resume now. Bush has created millions of jobs and boosted the economy wonderfully. Unfortunatley he has done this in other countries.
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Martin Kuplens-Ewart
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Re: Voting for Bush? - The Credibility Gap
March 25, 2004 - 03:10 AM
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You guys should read "Understanding Power" by Noam Chomsky.
After the first 10 pages you would see why
a.) the situation with the Bush gov't is not seen as scandal in the US media
b.) his actions are actually all good for his reelection chances.
Sad, but true: corporate interests rule the USA
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supes
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Vote for Bush!?
March 25, 2004 - 03:20 AM
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the two-party system is a sham, but i'm conflicted. i have problems voting for Kerry because (among other things) he supported the war , but I'd do almost anything to get rid of Bush. the reasons, i think, are blatanly obvious.
anyway, to answer your question, i live in the New York City area, and i don't know anyone who supports Bush. in fact, i can't even think of anyone who doesn't HATE him. i should mention, though, that the folks i work with and hang with often lean towards socialism, anarchism, and radicalisms of other shapes and colors. so take that for what it's worth.
And to Ramzzz86... you're free to express your opinions here, but the "Piss off Liberals" is unnecessary. Don't open yourself to an argument that, given the nature of this community, will likely end with you being embarassed. Keep it above the belt and we'll all be happy.
And I agree with martin83 - Chomsky's good stuff.
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Voting for Bush? - The Credibility Gap
March 25, 2004 - 04:09 AM
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Well Ramzzz is right about one thing - if he is in New York than his vote for Bush isn't going to make much of a difference - New York is a hard core democratic stronghold - it would be like voting Democrat in Texas.
Anyway Irrattic - if you listen to Republicans they are clearly worried - this is much closer than they would have liked.
They keys to this election are Florida (Kerry is up by 8 points now - Nader get the hell out of the race down there) and Ohio another big state which has lost alot of jobs and is leaning Democrat.
If Ohio and Florida go for Kerry the election is over.
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Me
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Re: Voting for Bush? - The Credibility Gap
March 25, 2004 - 05:36 AM
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Supes, like you I'm terribly conflicted about Kerry. I absolutely despise the man; he seems to be a case in point of how democrats allowed themselves to be flattened by the Bush patriotism-war-stupidity train after September 11th. He voted for the war and for the patriot act, which makes him essentially an idiot in my mind. I'm truly a Naderite at heart and I'm not sure that the mentality that another four years of Bush might reap long-term benefits if/once people finally come to their senses is really so far off.
Luke- I have been paying attention to the news; yes, Republicans are a bit concerned, but there's an election. No one wants to proclaim that they have the result in hand. And the fact that Bush has such a good chance of success is absolutely ridiculous given the host of potential scandals surrounding him that the mainstream press has absolutely failed to pursue. The man has an incredible war chest, and politics here often come down to money. In that sense, he's already won.
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Voting for Bush? - The Credibility Gap
March 25, 2004 - 06:26 AM
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Erratic - its easy to say Kerry is an idiot - but frankly I thought more highly of you than that.
Why not hit his website and see exactly what he is saying before rejecting him out of hand with minimal knowledge.
And no - this election will not come down to money - its going to come down to states and electoral votes. Really it is going to boil down to a few key states.
One more thing - whatever you say about Bush - you must recognise that the US has enemies. We are not going to make these enemies go away just because we are "nice" to them. Radical Islam hates western culture because of things like freedom of religion and womens rights.
So unless you want to wear a berka and convert to hard core Islam - you had better recognise Al Qaeda as an adversary that must be met head on.
I wouldn't trust Nader with this countries security, particularly at a time like this. Certain steps, as objectionable as they may be, must be taken. I think a guy with 3 purple hearts and 20 years experience in international diplomacy is far more qualified to run the country than Nader is.
If nothing else recognise how Kerry got those Purple Hearts - he risked his own life to save a comrad. At a fundamental level that is proof that he cares about others more than himself.
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supes
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parties
March 26, 2004 - 01:06 AM
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yes we have an entrenched 2 party system... and they're not all that different from one another. or at least the gap is closing as the Republicans intimidate the Dems into becoming more Republican as Erratic pointed out.
there are other parties but they're very small and do not receive election funds like the Dems and Reps do. in 2000, Nader tried to win enough support to qualify the Green party for funding, but he didn't quite make it (anyone know what the official cut-off line is?)
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supes
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Kerry
March 26, 2004 - 01:12 AM
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Sean... just came across this article on Kerry's position re: Venezuela. It's just one piece, but maybe gives you an idea...
http://venezuelanalysis.com/articles.php?artno=1140
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Me
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this is going to be lengthy..
March 26, 2004 - 04:18 AM
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Luke, you thought more highly of me than what? Than that I would vote for Nader? I live in Wisconsin. Not exactly a battleground state- it will go to the Democrats, especially since Nader has less support this time than he did four years ago. Yes, I know he won't win. So I suppose I'm making a statement. In Russia, voters have the option to vote "against all", exercising their right to vote without being forced to choose from among lackluster candidates- sometimes, this vote even wins.
Since we don't have such a system, voting for Nader amounts to about the same thing. Perhaps Kerry will win. Allegedly, this will move us ever-so-slightly to the left. Perhaps Bush will win. We'll move even more to the right. My hope, perhaps a vain one, is that at some point, people will wake up and realize exactly what has transpired. That we're in trillions of dollars of debt, are destroying our planet and stealing rights from the general population. Then we'll swing back to the left. Yes, we'll be damaged. But people will realize how close we came to losing everything, they'll work harder to get it back. Idealistic? Yes, perhaps. But not entirely unfounded. Social crises generally bring Democrats. Apparently, we're not mired deeply enough yet, but I'm sure we will be in another four years.
Kerry disgusts me. His success threw candidates out of the race that I could have voted for. People who, while perhaps not stellar leftists, were at least seemingly more trustworthy. Of all the primary candidates, Kerry and Lieberman were the only two I absolutely refused to support. Just today, I read that Kerry is calling for corporate tax cuts. Somehow he thinks that despite the sluggishness of the economy, he can do this. Because, allegedly, his plan will penalize conglomerates for relocating abroad. It's not hard to see how easily a corporate tax cut could pass in congress. What's the likelihood of sanctions ever being passed? What's the likelihood that this move will create 10 million jobs? He's stupid.
Furthermore, unlike seemingly every other American, security is not my top priority. At least not at this point. I can't honestly say that I feel 2,000 deaths here- or even 20,000- should ever be used to justify hundreds of billions of dollars worth of foreign policy, costing thousands more deaths. Al Qaeda is in no position to usurp control of the US government and force me to wear a burka. It's simply not strong enough. It's hardly like xenophobic Americans are going to vote them into power, either. It would be nice to stamp out Al Qaeda, yes. But it's not a feasible goal. People hate us, and there's no way to kill everyone who hates us. And they don't hate us simply for freedom of religion and women's rights- they hate us for imposing our values on them with the sheer enormity of the US economy.
Supes- I believe the cut-off for federal financing is 5%.
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