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Luke Lieberman
Joined: Feb 13, 2003
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Intolerance
January 17, 2004 - 01:36 AM
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Since Christmas I have been hearing people on this site express a shocking amount of Racism.
I have heard Muslims blame all the worlds ills on the "evil Jews" - I have heard Americans claim that Islam is somehow an "evil" religion.
I have heard it suggested that homosexuals should be imprisoned or murdered because their existance was more objectionable than the dropping of a nuclear weapon.
For so many people the answer is "its all their fault because their bad people"
Enough of this nonsense - it belittles TIG and makes the worst possible use of this website and its tools.
Now lets be clear - two weeks ago someone accused Jews of forging Ann Franks Diary - and it was written by a Jew - a twelve year old little Jewish girl who lived for years in the attic of a friendly Christian with her entire extended family.
They never left that attic - Ann Frank spent every day frightened that the Nazis would discover them - and murder her and everyone she loved.
I have heard Islam insulted, accused of promoting the abuse of woman, and of "lacking all common sense" - I have heard it said that all Arabs are somehow terrorists.
This rash of racism is a disease that we need to be cured of.
There is absolutely no way peace will ever be accomplished while people are insulting eachothers religions. You are attacking what people hold sacred - and it will only lead to anger, mistrust, and misunderstanding.
Instead of people reaching out to learn from eachother, I see that people are too busy judging eachother - pre-judgement - prejudice.
If there is something you don't know about Islam - ask a Muslim - nicely. If there is something you don't know about Judiasm - then ask a Jew - nicely.
Suddenly you will find yourself a wiser person than when you began.
We can do better than this.
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Yara Kassem
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Re: Intolerance
January 17, 2004 - 01:42 AM
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Yes,Haseeb..you're right,I mean I was really shocked when I found some nicknames like Against islam and stuff like that..This is terribly humiliating to us as muslims and to all those people from other religions..
I suggest to stop that none sense immediately please,and I suggest to stop using religions as a tool for harrassement or accusations,This forum was about friendly exchange of cultures but I don't think it's about attacking respectable religions in that way...
Please Guys Do something about that...
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majeedullah qarar
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We have just defended
January 17, 2004 - 02:18 AM
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In the last discussions if we intend, there were tow groups of posters, One group was of insulters, abusers and attackers and the members of the other group has just defended their believes and so their personalities and regretfully they were obligated to defend themselves, so they were never equal and never should be counted as that others.
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majeedullah qarar
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Re: Intolerance
January 17, 2004 - 02:22 AM
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and i think it's enough now.
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Ansari, Omar Mansoor
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Re: Intolerance
January 17, 2004 - 02:35 AM
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Long ago TIG was a beautiful place, a peaceful platform, I liked it more than many parties and meetings, it was an enjoyment for me, and it was a fun. We fought with each other, but latter we smiled to each other. We never stored the hatred in our hearts, and dedicatedly worked for shaping this opportunity as an international forum and finally turning this world a peaceful place to live in. we were thinking of creating networks of young people form different cultures, from different backgrounds, from different religions and thoughts, we wanted to foster their collaboration…
But today, don’t know what happened to it?
They are trying to change its face; they are trying to make it ugly, they try to create violence in here. They try to create differences in here by saying “I don’t know why Muslims hate Jews that much?”.
My answer to such people is “it is not your business!” “You don’t poke your nose into their lives” “let them discuss and then I am sure they will laugh and send apologies to each other, as I have witnessed it for more than two years”
I am sure no one can make it horrible, as still there are too many beautiful faces out there, and too many good hearts beating in here, and too many honest minds we have.
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Abdallah Diwan
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thnx Luke
January 17, 2004 - 02:43 AM
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You are right Luke , that is what is going on this days .
any way i think it is a great experience last days we got . Specialy to Know what is Dialogue between Civilatizations , and this is Not a proper way what is going on on TIG Discussions this days ,
guyes : nameing them Selves : againest Islam , and stuff like that and old people like Mmugahel and they are not Mature at all , as he used to say in the begeining ( i was born Ignorent ) i think it is still affecting him . any way thnx so much luke , and tell me if i could help please .
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Intolerance
January 17, 2004 - 03:01 AM
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I'm not sure what people expect to gain from this either - Alot of it comes from people who don't adiquately understand what they are talking about, but instead of humility they are pompous.
Twice have seen Against Islam and Haythem just put forward a list of the most vile accusations and say "lets discuss" - as though it was a reasonable place from which to begin discussions - guilty until proven innocent.
What is wonderful about TIG is that you actually get to meet all these different people. If you are confused about Islam - there are many kids here who can enlighten you. American Jews in particular have taken alot of heat - instead of aggressively charging in with a mouth full of allegations - what not just find an American Jew (I'm one) discuss the matter rationally.
Anyway Haseb - I'm sorry to hear your access is limited. - I am just reolized that I am talking to three members from Afghanistan.
I am curious what support for Karzi is like in you region and if you think the US really has adiquate control of the country.
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Yara Kassem
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Re: Intolerance
January 17, 2004 - 03:09 AM
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Well,Luke You're right about how amazing is TIG I really learnt a lot since I joined TIG,I'm serious about that..I feel I'm quite a different person now,after getting to know all those cultures and info about those different places,as I said before I'm just fascinated about that dialogue of civilizations,and I just learnt how to respect every single opinion even if different than mine..
But,I really feel sorry about those people attacking different cultures ,races or religion in such an abusive way,Don't you think so???
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Yara Kassem
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Re: Intolerance
January 17, 2004 - 04:54 AM
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Yes,Luke you're absolutely right actually that's what I was thinking of today and Yesterday,I was just thinking that it's gotta be a way of exchanging what people like or dislike about each other's religion or culture that would be better than that...
It has been so humiliating and insulting and ofcourse it was so painfull for all of us that kind of discussion that missed tolerance and respect to each others,and at the end we just noticed that all of us could ask the same questions but in a nice way,and when it happened answers are nice and calm also,so we don't have to exchange accusations that became personnal accusations and we can also learn from each others at the end...
Thank you Luke,you spoke my mind actually
Yara
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Haseeb
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Great Point!
January 17, 2004 - 09:10 AM
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Luke, you came up with a great point. Lately, I have came across so much of racism on TIG , specially the Muslim and Jew issues ,and its terribel.
We have got few memebers with racist nick names now and its not good, whomever it be I came across the name "antiislam" and its not what we have to use TIG for.
I was just about write in my updates about this and camplaign about this, but cause I have very limmited access to net these days I had to wait till today and when I came on TIG today i saw you have done it already so . Great work!
Please , Please , Please , stop all this and try and engage in constructive discusions rather than damaging ones, I just wonder what would one gain by Proving Jews evil or Muslim abusive?
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Haseeb
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Thank GOD!
January 17, 2004 - 09:14 AM
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I tried not to engage all those and thank god I succeded.
Even if I was not engaged, I just couldnt stop thinking how can we avoid such stuff.
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Eric Hyom
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Re: Intolerance
January 20, 2004 - 10:16 AM
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I believe in one God the creator of all that is seen and unseen, and when I walk down town, I see a part of God’s creation.
I see people who could be atheist, Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu and all manor of people.
Individually we each have a responsibility towards the peace and well being of all Gods creation.
Peace
Eric
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Matt Wolpert
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Re: Intolerance
January 23, 2004 - 02:37 AM
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It is very exciting for me to read a lot of the threads, having been absent from TIG for awhile, and see the dialogue between cultures progress. All of these heated arguments have given voice to a lot of the misconceptions and stereotypes that different cultures have of each other, and if they aren't out in the open, they can't be changed.
I say that each and every one of these threads where racism has reared its ugly head is a step forward in TIG. Working through these issues is important, but if they remain in the background, they can't be worked through.
It's a lot like racism in the US. A lot of white people who do not live in diverse areas assume that racism is a thing of the past, because it is not out in the open, in their face. It was the same in the 1960s...until they watched the film of police using fire hoses and dogs on protesters, they didn't realize the problem existed to that extent. Now that we have seen this intolerance on TIG, we can work to eradicate it, so be excited, not sad. We are moving things forward.
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jesse adams
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Re: Intolerance
February 9, 2004 - 01:10 AM
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Tolereance does not equate with accepting other people belive/live differently to you if you then consider and treat them differently. In other words to be tolerant you should not care what religion, color, sexual preference, etc others have.
I would also say that this involves not looking for intolerance. The cry of racism/sexism etc is an easy call to make if you don't like somebody or their position.
I have mentioned previously the intolerance on this site specifically towards homosexuality. I agree that TIG is not a forum for such beliefs or attitudes. However, hopefully the people who have these feelings can gain some moderation through discourse. The discussions between Luke, Yarinos, omarafghan and others on religions, the West Bank etc have educated, informed and shown the polarity and strong feelings invloved. Also they have allowed each side to be displayed discussed and understood with no long term acrimony and no blood shed.
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Terri Willard
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Re: Intolerance
February 9, 2004 - 01:21 AM
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Hi Abongta,
I guess my only problem with your line of reasoning is when hate moves from the individual feeling level to the individual action level and/or a structural societal level.
For example... just to use your rice example... let's say you hate rice and I love it. That's ok. We can have long conversations about it. But, what if you decide to physically attack someone who loves rice (an individual action)? Or if you get Rice Hating friends together and pass a law outlawing rice in your city or throwing rice lovers into prison (a societal structural action)? Do I have any rights to defend myself against your actions?
The basic question is one of how to protect the rights of minority groups in democratic systems. The challenge is that most minority groups are by definition holding a position/opinion which is not the majority opinion.
How do societies decide what types of individual actions/ideas/preferences/existence of a minority group simply CANNOT be tolerated and which ones can?
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