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Abdallah Diwan
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Discriminating Muslims and Arabs
January 11, 2004 - 06:49 AM
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i met one of my old freineds yesterday an Egyptian Guy living in France , and studing political science , he was really to happy of what is going on with him in France , cause he is really treated too bad , cause he is an arab, and whenever some one know he is an arab he just go and give him his back , lots of people keep talking to him in the worst way ever cause he is just a muslim , and he suffered to fined a summer job cause he is an Arab , he went to the Mosque and began teaching young muslims the Hooly Quraan and Arabic, he also added that the French Muslims did understand islam better then him , and they were not even brough Muslims , they just searced for the truth through all the religions and found it in Islam , really people who serch and work hard to fined god are the trully muslims ,they guy was named in the college the phantome ,or a gost some thing like that no one want to talk to him and he never talk with outhers, he told me a guy could keep walking behined him to track him and not talking , they just say you maybe going to boomb a place so we are heer to stop you (too Silly) same thing happened to a freined of mine in the UK, and also when ever he is on his laptop people keep looking on his screen to se what he do and telling him it maybe a map of a terrorist new attack or something, and then come France and the ban of the scarf and every thing go againest our Human Rights,i think this problrms raise people like Mugahel who is affraied to mention that he is a muslim .and i think we should try find our way to reality  , and may god bless you all.
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Haythem Kamel
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CLAIMS
January 11, 2004 - 07:24 AM
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yea abdallah , you are right
and thats happend in all over the world , especially in Europe and USA , not only France
i have an Egyptian Friend preparing for his Phd in Computer science in a University in England
he told me that the people there hate the arabs and the muslims with out any reasons , and dealing with them as if all of them are terrorist , with out any reason for that ,
eveb the kids in the streets , they deal with him badly because he looks as an arab , and some times they thru stones and tomatos because of that .
in the hostel if a washer machine stop works or any thing happend the mates say that the responsible is one of the arabs
this stuipid new discrimination it is not based on colour or only ethinc group , it is based on religion
and in those countries they claimed that they are the land of freedom , and say that in the eastern countries there is no human rights , they must first search in there home about this discrimination , and then , they can talk
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Maitreyi Doshi
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my views
January 11, 2004 - 07:25 AM
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My blood boils when people are discriminated. Why are the Arabs discriminated? Aren't they not Human beings? Dont they not have eyes, nose, blood same as all of us? Why because of a few hand full of people who have done atrocious things the whole religion is considered bad? I do totally disagree with this.
I have so many Muslim friends, I am really proud to say that I am their friends. I have learnt so much from them, I have learnt to respect their religion a lot better.
Its not the people how spoil the religion and its politics and some bunch of stupid "so called leaders" who are spread a lot of hate and misunderstanding among people.
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Haythem Kamel
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look and think
January 11, 2004 - 07:29 AM
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i receive this words on email ,
i read it , i found that all of it is true ,
read it
and think about it
: ((
It Wasn't Arabs
by Edgar J. Steele
November 18, 2003
"Let me count the ways..."
--- with apologies to Elizabeth Barrett Browning
The following email came from a list member this morning: "Today's Jews are far from perfect! But their enemies are my enemies too. I detest the Arabs. To my way of thinking they are two-faced butchers. It seems as though most of the world's terrorists come from their countries."
I got a little carried away with my response, I confess. It felt cleansing, somehow, to list all the reasons why this person was wrong. Maybe it was my being included in the SPLC's recent "List of 40 to Watch," meaning right wingers they have targeted for elimination, wherein I was labeled an anti-semite. (You want anti-semite? I'll give you anti-semite!) Here is my response, in full:
I haven't the degree of antipathy you feel for Arabs, despite a couple that I would willingly have dispatched, had it been legal. Nor do I have any particular love for them, other than that normally reserved for the underdog. Your hatred seems born of something quite apart from personal experience. Here is just part of the basis for my outlook:
It wasn't Arabs who tried to steal my law practice - it was a jew.
It wasn't Arabs who threatened to kill my children and wife - it was jews.
It wasn't Arabs who threatened to kill me - and continue to do so with regularity - it was/is jews.
It wasn't Arabs who screwed the stockholders of the company I worked for in SF - it was jews.
It isn't Arabs who fill my email inbox with pornographic spam - it is jews.
It isn't Arabs who send all those viruses to me over the Internet - it is jews.
It isn't Arabs who try to get my ISP to cancel my internet access - it is jews.
It isn't Arabs who periodically forge mass spam mailings to so many, using my domain name - it is jews.
It isn't Arabs who send me all that incredibly vituperative, irrational and pornographic hate mail - it is jews.
It wasn't Arabs who blocked my PayPal account and stole the balance it contained - it was jews.
It wasn't Arabs who painted a bullseye on my chest by labeling me one of "40 to watch" - it was jews.
It isn't Arabs who have made it all but impossible for me to work as a lawyer - it is jews.
It isn't Arabs who maintain a dossier on me and draw from it to defame me on every venue possible - it is jews.
It wasn't Arabs who have been bent upon bankrupting and imprisoning so many that I know - it was and is jews.
It isn't Arabs who have arrested and imprisoned Chester Doles as a felon in possession of a gun, though he is no felon and owned no guns - it is jews.
It wasn't Arabs who indicted David Duke on tax evasion charges that were pure speculation, forcing a plea deal and a 1-year prison sentence because he dared not go before a jury - it was jews.
It wasn't Arabs who arrested Artie Wheeler for domestic terrorism because he had firearm reloading equipment and supplies - it was jews.
It wasn't Arabs who arrested and imprisoned Christine Greenwood for distributing clothing to needy white children - it was jews.
It wasn't Arabs who sued and bankrupted Richard Butler because he provided shelter to some derelicts who stupidly shot at some people - it was jews.
It wasn't Arabs who had Ernst Zundel deported to Canada - it was jews - where he now stands accused of thought crimes - by jews - for which he could get deported again, to Germany, where he will be tried for more thought crimes - by jews.
It wasn't Arabs who sued and bankrupted Tom Metzger because one of his followers stupidly killed another - it was jews.
It isn't Arabs who have hijacked my government - it is jews.
It isn't Arabs who have hijacked the American legal system and now are transforming it to conform to Talmudic law - it is jews.
It isn't Arabs who own and run the Federal Reserve Bank, which is in the process of destroying the dollar and the American economy - it is jews.
It isn't Arabs rigging the US stock market and commodities futures markets - it is jews.
It wasn't Arabs who sent our military into Afghanistan and Iraq - it was jews.
It isn't Arabs who refuse to serve in the US Military in numbers proportionate to their population percentage - it is jews (1/10 of 1%, vs. 2-1/2%).
It wasn't Arabs who sued to remove "under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance - it was jews.
It wasn't Arabs who sued to remove the Ten Commandments from that Alabama courthouse, had Judge Moore removed from the bench and now seek to disbar him - it is jews.
It isn't Arabs who sue to remove nativity scenes from public venues - it is jews.
It isn't Arabs who erect menorahs in public venues in place of crosses - it is jews.
It wasn't Arabs who sued to remove group prayer from public schools - it was jews.
It wasn't Arabs suing to remove decorative lights from schools at Christmas - it was jews.
It isn't Arabs who refuse to allow children to say grace over their school lunches - it is jews.
It isn't Arabs who continue to impose affirmative action upon us in all walks of life - it is jews.
It isn't Arabs who began and continue to expand militant feminism - it is jews.
It isn't Arabs who buy off all our legislators with our own tax dollars - it is jews.
It wasn't Arabs who tried to sink the USS Liberty and killed and maimed so many of its crewmembers during an extended attack - it was jews.
It isn't Arabs enacting hate crime laws designed to outlaw criticism of themselves - it is jews.
It isn't Arabs who run NAMBLA (North American Man-Boy Love Association) - it is jews.
It isn't Arabs suing to force us to allow homosexuals to lead boy scout troops - it is jews.
It wasn't Arabs who started and ran so many black organizations like the NAACP - it was jews.
It isn't Arabs importing huge numbers of Somalians and Bantu into American cities - it is jews.
It wasn't Arabs who formulated American legislation providing pensions to Russian jewish immigrants for doing nothing - it was jews.
It isn't Arabs who run organized crime throughout America - it is jews.
It isn't Arabs who import tons of drugs into America every day - it is jews.
It isn't Arabs who literally own and run all of Hollywood's moviemaking enterprise - it is jews.
It isn't Arabs who literally own and run all of America's mainstream media - it is jews.
It isn't Arabs spewing obscenity and race-mixing propaganda from the TV and movie screens - it is jews.
It isn't Arabs trying mightily to block release of the Mel Gibson movie, "The Passion" - it is jews.
It isn't Arabs lying about and guilt tripping us with "the holocaust" - it is jews.
It isn't Arabs stealing American tax dollars to fund all their holocaust monuments throughout America - it is jews.
It wasn't Arabs who forged the Anne Frank "diary" - it was jews.
It wasn't Arabs who lied about gas chambers at Dachau and Auschwitz - it was jews.
It wasn't Arabs who lied about mass graves at Treblinka - it was jews.
It wasn't Arabs who lied about jews being made into lamp shades and soap during WWII - it was jews.
It wasn't Arabs who doctored WWII prison camp photos to appear to be belching smoke from crematoria - it was jews.
It wasn't Arabs who used WWII pictures of dead non jews, claiming they were jews - it was jews.
It wasn't Arabs who made anti-semitical talk punishable by death in Russia after they took power - it was jews.
It wasn't Arabs who killed over 20 million Russian Christians - it was jews.
It wasn't Arabs who looted and destroyed the Russian economy - it was jews.
It isn't Arabs who have amassed an illegal arsenal of over 300 nuclear weapons in the Middle East - it is the jews.
It isn't Arabs who brag about controlling America - it is jews.
It isn't Arabs who advocate the use of torture by and on Americans - it is jews.
It isn't Arabs who twist American laws to punish anti-semitical speech - it is jews.
It isn't Arabs endeavoring to get America to outlaw anti-semitical speech - it is jews.
It isn't Arabs who sell goods that it is illegal in America to boycott - it is Israeli jews.
It isn't Arabs who extort "fees" for allowing their kosher label on goods - it is jews.
It isn't Arabs who retaliate against rock-throwing children by shooting them in the head - it is jews.
It isn't Arabs stealing land in Palestine - it is jews.
It wasn't Arabs who ran down Rachel Corrie with a bulldozer - it was a jew.
It isn't Arabs who have caused America to spend $2.5 trillion ($31,250 per American family) in the Middle East - it is jews.
It isn't Arabs who send teams of trained assassins into foreign countries, including America, to kill people with whom Israel disagrees - it is jews.
It isn't Arabs who run the ADL, which maintains dossiers on thousands of law-abiding American citizens, for the purpose of punishing those with whom they disagree - it is jews.
It isn't Arabs who break into and enter the offices and homes of law-abiding American citizens, to procure evidence both for their database and in the hopes of getting evidence they can pass to the FBI for prosecution - it is jews.
It isn't Arabs who have caused America to go from being the most-loved country in the world to the most hated - it is jews.
Finally, though most won't believe it (all the preceding are facts - provable facts):
It isn't Arabs who regularly phony up "hate crimes" against themselves - it is jews.
It wasn't Arabs who caused the Great Depression - it was jews.
It wasn't Arabs who started WWI - it was jews.
It wasn't Arabs who started WWII - it was jews.
It wasn't Arabs who killed JFK - he was american
It wasn't Arabs who demolished the World Trade Center - it was jews.
It wasn't Arabs who bomb the FBI building - he was american
It isn't Arabs bent upon destroying Christianity - it is jews.
And, lest we forget:
It wasn't Arabs who had Jesus Christ crucified - it was jews
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Discriminating Muslims and Arabs
January 11, 2004 - 11:21 AM
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Actually it was the Romans - Jews did not have crusafixion in their legal system - that is why they took Jesus to the Roman govorner.
But really the ignorance here is astounding.
If you want to end the disease of discrimination - start with yourself.
That little tirade of anti-semetic hate rhetoric is every bit as deplorable as hate rhetoric targeting Muslims.
You seem indignant about unfair charges leveled at Muslims and you turn right around and exhibit the exact same behavior that you are complaining about.
If the Jews have it out for you it is probably because3 your mouth got you into trouble. You make outragous accusations like "The jews caused 9-11" for which you have zero proof - and the people you are inulting are going to resist you.
You are right - Jews try to remove rabid anti-semites from the legal profession - good - you sound like you earned the label of anti-semite.
You know how we know it was Al Qada operatives that destroyed the trade centers - survellience cameras, airplane records, the recording boxes in the cockpit, the phone call from a husband aboard the flight that crashed in Penn to his wife in which he confirmed the nationality of the highjackers on his plane - and the fact that Al Qada tried to blow up the towers in 98' - we caught the criminals - they were Al Qada - we have them in jail now.
That is proof - now you come up with some.
The fact you would try to blame Jews for the Hollocaust is little short of disgusting.
It looks to me like you are receiving exactly the same kind of intolerance you are exhibiting.
The energy you put out comes back to you - its called karma.
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Discriminating Muslims and Arabs
January 12, 2004 - 02:26 AM
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Yarinos - to begin I brought up the invasion of Spain to rebut a point about the English invasion of Egypt - if we are going to talk about English invasions 200 years ago then why not talk about Arab invasions 400 years ago.
I would rather talk about niether as niether is really what the current conflict is all about.
But please understand - I was not in any way trying to connect Spain and Iraq - go back and have another look.
And what Haythem said was that he agreed with and endorsed all of those anti-semetic statements - which is basically the same as saying them. I think you both need to reolize that Arabs are not the only ones who face descrimination - and in some cases they desciminate. You should be indignant - at Haythem's email for me - you should be telling him that it is a very unislamic attitude to spew such hate.
When last Goddessabbatha and Mmughal made anti-arab statements - I stood up for you and corrected them. I expect the same treatment from you.
If you want to be treated without descrimination - than how can you sit by and allow Haythem to make such statements - think about it - so long as arabs are spewing racism - how can they complain about it? Right now by your attitude toward Haythems statements you are telling me that it is ok for Arabs to be Anti-semetic but not OK for Americans to be anti-islamic.
And notice something else - before you were telling me about how Jews can really be comfortable in Arab countries - that they have no reason to wish for their own homeland because there is no descrimination in counries like Egypt - well...
I would like you to become aware of your own biases against Jews. Abdallahdiwan - you are basing you accusation of Jews/Sept 11 on what? What evidence do you rest your case on? What proof are you looking to which is more compelling than survellience photos and eyewitness accounts? You mentioned that Al Qada had committed other terrorist acts - you will recall on of them was an attempt to blow up the twin towers in 1998.
It seems your beleif that Jews were behind 9-11 is based on little more than a suspicious attitude toward Jews. It seems it was based on a feeling about the Jewish race in general rather than anything solid. I lost friends in the Twin Towers - guess what - they were Jewish. Do you have any idea how many Jews live in New York and how many died in the towers? Estimates run that about 15% of the victims in the Towers disaster were Jewish - that means that about 400+ Jews died that day.
Wake up. If you are upset about descrimination than stop excersizing descrimination in your own mind.
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Terri Willard
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Re: Discriminating Muslims and Arabs
January 12, 2004 - 06:28 AM
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Discrimination sucks... no two ways about it. But, it will always be engaged in when people are afraid (on their on behalf or on the behalf of their children or other vulnerable populations) of the "other". While fear is never a logical process, people can generally come up with a logical justification (and statistics) for their fear.
That aside... I find the title of this thread fascinating. I just finished reading Irshad Manji's "The Trouble With Islam" (I've actually created another thread on the book at http://www.takingitglobal.org/discuss/showthread.php?threadid=5318). In the book she points out that perhaps a lot of the problems within Islam may have their source in conflating Islam (a religion) with Arabs (a cultural/ethnic group). Islam is far far bigger than the Arab world... in sheer numbers, the majority of the world's Muslims are actually South Asian, not Arabic. But, somehow - both within the Muslim community and outside of it - Manji argues that non-Arab flavours of Islam have been stifled. It's an interesting argument.
From reading the cases described in the first couple posts to this thread, it sounds to me like people are discriminating against the individuals as visible Arabs (although likely conflating that with being Muslim). I suspect that a non-Arab African Muslim walking down the street would attract less discrimination because so many Europeans and North Americans are unaware that Muslims come in all shapes, sizes, and races.
Another intersting conundrum that Manji points to is that it is seemingly inadmissable to report spontaneous acts of kindness to Arabs or Muslims. She cites having tried to do exactly this over the last few years and having had a national broadcaster reply that profiling acts of openness and tolerance would just serve to highlight that the general trend is one of discrimination. Hunh? Even if the stories of kindness outnumbered acts of discrimination by 10 to 1? No discrimination is acceptable, but neither should the media blow the scale of discrimination out of proportion.
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Ansari, Omar Mansoor
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Re: Discriminating Muslims and Arabs
January 12, 2004 - 06:55 AM
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a
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Abdallah Diwan
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Re: Discriminating Muslims and Arabs
January 12, 2004 - 07:38 AM
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Luke , i think Hitham didn't say that , this is an email that was sent to him , so i think you dont have to attack him  . something else i don't really belive that the Qaada did 11 septeber , i really think it was jews , and your proof is not enough for me , but any way Al Qaada was wrong and they did lots of teerorists attackes which was wrong and caused the bad reflection on muslims , i think if they wanted to take revenge for palastine , then they didn't have to kill civilians arowned the world , which is really forbiden in Islam and not islamic at all , If i was them i would have based the Qaada inside palastine , and never killed a jew Civilian , but killed all the Army , this is islamic if i want to defened my property and peopole , this cannot be done for Civilians , and agers and children, i think Gihad is to defened your life , propert and land relegion but during war time , or when the Isrealy Army is comming to Bust a Muslim or an Arab , i think this time when they are killed as milletery men they are not terrorists and no one could say they are terrorists , so i hope muslims Mugaheids and armies Know this and work for it , and show the glorry of Islam
Another thing , i think it is mentiond in the jewish stories , that there end will be in the end of the world on the hands of Arabs , i heard this story a lot , and there is a certain tree that will only protect jews from Arabs, it is known in our religion too that the jew can make any thing to keep him self alive , cause they are alwayes afraied to die , i donno if this is true or not.
Cheers,
Abdallah
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Yara Kassem
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Re: Discriminating Muslims and Arabs
January 12, 2004 - 07:55 AM
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Guys,I can't beleive we're getting through such a discussion again...
Again,Jews and Arabs and discrimination and again we're back to generalizing issues...
Luke,Calm down a bit!!! none of us ofcourse is blaming jews for the holocaust ,this would surely be insane...
I would never attack Jews,this would be discrimination but the ones I would attack would be Israelis,those ones killing civilians in the streets and abusing us all the time..But,Why would we attack normal Jewish people..As I told you before in a previous discussion,I have nothing at all against Jews as long as they have nothing against us...
You're right about that we should start by ourselves when it comes to discrimination and so you should do,I guess we all gotta be fair a little bit more..
There's a fact,that some people like the ones Abdallah and Haythem mentionned were being discriminated and a loit of other Arabs going to the US and Europe,it's a fact Luke..we're being attacked just for being Arabs and Muslims,in the streets and when dealing with others...Just like what's been happening in one of the discussiosn when you were attacking us by saying that Arabs invaded Spain so then we shouldn't complaint from teh horrors of US invasion to Iraq or whatever..Is that logic,Luke???
I guess you should start about yourself too,and look at us from the perspective that we're normal people just like you,you like to be respected for the human beign that you are and not because of your religion or your culture..Don't you think so Luke?
Guys,I would really like that discussion to be more civilized,let's just try to get away than personnal accusation and generalizing things...
Cheers
Yara Kassem
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Yara Kassem
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Re: Discriminating Muslims and Arabs
January 12, 2004 - 08:20 AM
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I really feel so bad when I hear about anyone getting discriminated,not only Arabs(like me) but all kinds of humans gettign discriminated hurts me a lot..and I hate that kind of racial jockes about specific nationalities...I hate when people are being attacked because of their religion,culture,language or color,this is absolutely unfair and unhuman..Don't you think so Guys??
And even though I haven't been experiencing that kind of usual discrimination like those guys we're talking about,I lived a big part opf my lif in Eastern Europe and I never even had the feeling I'm that different from them and never even been hurt by any of the cultural shocks,and also the rest of jmy familly as my aunt lives in France for more than 30 years now and she's never been exposed to what we're talkign about now,even after knowiung that we're arabs...
But the discrmination I've been dealing with is like that qyyestion I was asked a time " why do aarbs hate the west",and you want the truth it hurts a lot,and like being attacked because the Arabs invaded Europe hundreds of years ago,or because of Al Qaeda practises,or because of the islamists groups..This is unfair!!!!It's exactly like blaming Jews for the Holocaust,Don't you think so Luke????
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Haythem Kamel
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understanding the others
January 12, 2004 - 10:27 AM
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thanks yara for your update
but i want to mention an important thing especially to MR. LUKE
first of all i said in the begining of my update that it is from an email i received
and the author of the email is an American , i think like you
and i just want to share his point of view in this disscussion , and what i did is only copy and paste !!!!!!!!!
and if you didnt read what i wrote in the begining of the my update , i think it is better for you to review it again please.
second ,
i didnt say any point of view about hating jews or even israelians
and you didnt know that i have many jews friends , some of them from israel and a couple member in the knesset ( the israelian parlement ) it self , especially if you know that i speaks hebrew , and i think that you dont understand it , and i want to tell you , the first lesson to understand a civilisation , you must understand their language
and i think that you dont understand both arabic or hebrew
and i told them about what happend in the palistenian cities ,
but they didnt made a revolution like what you did , and they didnt made a history lesson like you did
but we talks , as friends , even one of them were an army soldier in israel , and he dont like there , and i think that you dont know that there is problems in the israelians army , that the soldiers dont obey orders to kill the palastenians , and a few monthes ago - if you follow the news - , a number of israelians pilots fighters refused to obey orders to shoot the palastanians houses ,
i think that you , in the USA dont know that the israelian governments bombed the palastanians civilians homes by the US-MADE fighter F16
and they are diffending ISRAEL from the young TERRORISTS holding STONES on their hand, by bombing their FAMILIES and shotting the kids in their head !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
so
even the israelians them selves know the truth , and hate to kill innocent people
so , the jewish people understand the other point of view ,
third
you speak about the arab invasion to spain
what happend after the arabs leaved spain , they left a strong nation , and made a great contribution to the european heritage , and to the world , by the great scintific and theoretical and phylosophical contribution , that changed history
if you compare that by any western invasion to the east , you will find that they left weak nations , with no science , and they left troubles and civil wars and problems every where
forth
about 9 - 11 , i think you need to walk in NY streets , especially in MANHATAIN and the financial district ,
you will find the numbers of jewish = the number of muslim
but i think that you need to read more dimographic researches about the state
and also i have friends died there in the twin towers
you dont know that i visited New Yorks for about 4 times , each time it was just a visit not more than 3 days
and i love New York , may be more than any other place , and i have many friends there
and i was very sad in 9-11
and about who did it
there is no recording boxes found from the planes
there is no proof that any body was the responsible for that attack , and the american ( jewish ) media after a couple of minutes after the attack said that el Qaeda is responsible !!!!!!!!!!!!!
who is govern the states , the government or the media????????????????
so
i will not say that the jewish made it , but they are the only benifeciars from it
see what happend in the insurance companies and stock market , and you will understand who is the benificiar
see what happend in the oil prices and you will understand
see what happend in the policy toward the middle east , and you will understand by your self
fifth
about the semitic
i think that you need to read more in religion and history ,
read the bible , the old testiment , and you will undertand that the word ( semitic )
came from the child of ( noah ) his name is ( sam )
and ( sam ) is one of the ancestors of ( Abraham )
and abraham is the father of both ( Ismael ) and ( Issac )
and i think that the Ismael is the father of the Arabs and Issac is the father of jews
so arabs and jews are cousins , so , if you say anti-semitic so you mean that it is discrimination against both , the arabs and the jews
so both are the same ethinc group ,
so
it is unlogic to say that there is some one from arab country is an antisemitic???????????
do you got the point
so
MR.Luke
you need to read more in the history , religion , language , politics
to know what is going on
to know that peace , and tolerence is the important point for having a better world
and i have many american friends ( non muslims ) that can help you if you want to understand whats going on in the world
thanks and i am happy for having this discussion with you
by the way , i didnt sent any email to you
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Tunisian
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Re: Discriminating Muslims and Arabs
January 13, 2004 - 02:02 AM
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discrimanation, again and forever!
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Discriminating Muslims and Arabs
January 13, 2004 - 02:09 AM
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Thank you Meland, that was a very responsible post.
I am still waiting to find out what Haythem really meant by his post - because it is not at all clear.
And Yarinos - OK to begin, I'm against all forms of descrimination - and I undertand that there has been a backlash against Arabs in my country following Sept 11. I don't agree with it, nor do I participate in it.
I think Jews are beginning to get frustraited with Sharon because he has not exactly kept them safe as he promised, and he seems to be losing them political ground in the world at large.
The whole point is that is you harrass a complete stranger for no other reason than their race... well it's just wrong.
Now, please understand something about Israelis - they are tired of being threatened and attacked. As another one of you countrymen threatened Israel in another thread - he said that there will never be peace, that Arabs will always try to destroy Israel - well... do you think this kind of talk is constructive? Do you think this makes Israelis want to put their guns down and pull the tanks back?
Israelis have heard these kind of threats - more than threats but war in 1948, 67, 73, their Olympic athleates have been murdered, there have been several intefaddas...
When Israelis hear threats that "every Arab is going to fight to the death to destroy Israel" - as our friend said on a different thread - then they start to see every Arab as a potential threat - and treat them accordingly.
Don't for one moment assume that the Israelis actions stem from any place other than fear. I think the vast majority of Israelis would have been happy to accept the peace accords at camp David - and had Arafat agreed to them Sharon would never have been elected - Barak would still be in power.
Anyway...
Where America and Arabs are concerned - and I do think it is a bit of a seperate issue - certainly there is mutual misunderstanding. I think it would do for the American media to do some honest historical retrospectives. I think that Americans have a sincere need to understand her Arab brothers more deeply than she does - otherwise war will be dreadful outcome.
Certainly some Americans understand this - books on Arab history and culture have been selling like hotcakes since Sept 11.
But I also want to respond - because this cuts both ways. I think many Arabs have a profound misunderstanding of American culture - as evidenced by comments I have heard expressed on this site.
I have heard that:
- All Americans are brainwashed
- The CIA caused 9/11
- The Jews caused 9/11
- 90% of campeign money comes from Jews
- 80% of media control is in the hands of Jews
- the Hollocaust was a lie (later recanted, thank you)
- That Americans are all shallow and stupid.
All of these comments have been made in the last month by Egyptian kids.
"i don't really belive that the Qaada did 11 septeber , i really think it was jews ," - Abdallahdiwan
Yes Yarinos - I think a few of you have accused the Jews of creating Sept 11 - and there was another Egyptian kid who made similar accusations.
I'll make an effort at this point to dispell a few myths.
The CIA operates out of the Pentagon - I find it doubtful that they chose to fly airplanes into their own offices.
Most American Jews are Democrates - most of Bushes funding comes from oil tycoons and an interlocking group of powerful Protestant Churches. Bush himself is a very religious Christian.
Bush is also at odds with the American media - he doesn't like them and indeed fears the "liberal" media because it often portrays him in a less than favorable light.
That and America has one of the best higher education systems in the world - we are not all stupid.
It is amazing to me when kids from Egypt have tried to lecture me on American culture.
I think both sides need to make a greater effort to understand the other. You cannot just focus on how other people are effecting you - you must also focus on how you are effecting other people.
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leticia zero
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Re: Discriminating Muslims and Arabs
January 13, 2004 - 03:04 AM
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I just want extract something out of all of this debate here, something to be highlighted and maybe you will find it interesting food for tought.
It's about the internet being such an important media for the spread of information, points of view and allow voices to be heard.
When I read Haythem's post, as well as his update, I completelly misunderstood him for a jew hating person. I also, as many other people such as Luke, thought and understood that he shared those points of view he had copied and pasted. Now from his further explanations I realized where he stands on the issue.
This makes a good exanple of something that's been discusssed in a couple of threads in the media section of this forum. When I posted there I was mistaken for someone advocating censorship. Not at all.
And the resultsof the dialogue in this thread right now reinforce my point of how the free flow of information can lead to hate, anger when it doens't come with justifications, proper analysis, critical views.
My point is also that fostering education and critical conscience and the ability to reflect and criticize information is as important as the acces to the information itself.
Maybe if Haythem had put mor eeffort in accompanying his copy-paste with a little analysis of it as ellaborated his oppinions over that list this thread would have been saved from some angry discussions, finger pointing and misunderstandings.
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