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Crystal_Abongta
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Rape leading to an Abortion
January 6, 2004 - 11:23 AM
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Rape = An abortion, What an equation! Ok this time, I cut a long story short. Another unpleasant situation happened recently. Mariana a young 20 year old girl left her friend’s house late in the evening heading for home. She took a short-cut to get home quickly, this road is quite lonely and so it ended up that she got raped by a strapping man along the way. While the police keep on with their investigations, the story continues.
Mariana confirmed she had conceived during the unfortunate rape incidence when it was already two months old. The worst side of it is that she is contemplating an abortion so she came to my office for help. Despite all I’ve told her, she is bent on having the abortion than the child of a father she does not know and hate even without know him. She says the child would always remind her of that unfortunate day if she keeps the pregnancy to birth. So to erase such bad memories, an abortion would be the solution.
What do you think about this? Are her reasons founded?
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Brian Smith
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Re: Rape leading to an Abortion
January 6, 2004 - 11:37 AM
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I do believe that she has the right to choose abortion... The was not a willing act on her part, she has been violated... this is not an 'unfortunate act' but a disppicable and deplorable crime.
The child must be thought of too, he/she will be branded for life and with a mother who would have serious issues dealing with the proper upbringing.
In the end it is her right to choose. If she has had counselling both ways then we must allow her to make the choice and support her in whatever she does.
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Crystal_Abongta
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Rights?
January 7, 2004 - 03:13 AM
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Originally posted by Brian
[B]I do believe that she has the right to choose abortion... /B]
Just a question Brian, and if I got you well, You say she has the right to choose abortion.
Well ‘rights’ I don’t really understand what you mean here by ‘rights’.
Is it normal to insist on your rights even when such a choice would inflict pain on or end another human being’s life?
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jesse adams
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Re: Rape leading to an Abortion
January 7, 2004 - 03:17 AM
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You seem to be suggesting she keep a child which she will hate and remind her constantly of being brutalised, terrified and violently attacked. I dont think that her getting to know the guy would really be an option. You state that she doens't want to get to know him - I cannot understand why!
The rights and wrongs of abortion are constantlyargued about but even the most ardent prolife supported generally agrees that int he case of rape the woman should be allowed a guilt free abortion.
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Crystal_Abongta
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Look at it this way
January 8, 2004 - 04:23 AM
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Originally posted by jda
You seem to be suggesting she keep a child which she will hate and remind her constantly of being brutalised, terrified and violently attacked.
Well, I actually was advising her to keep the child. We know it’s an unfortunate situation that she got raped and so we condemn the act. Again, the resultant is an innocent human being who is not responsible for the dirty act of the rapist. Well as a Christian, I know children are a blessing from God. Well the channel of the blessing in this case was not the best but it still remains a blessing.
A human life starts from the moment of conception until natural death; we don’t have to decide to keep or take a way a human life in this case. If she sees the child as a blessing that would comfort her from her unfortunate situation, it would be that. It now depends on how she accepts her fate. Killing the child would not wash of her memories of the incident. Rape is the one thing that we understand, we don’t forget. It lingers around you like a foul smell but when you understand and accept it, you cope with it.
We grow over our misfortunes by understanding them, we don’t forget them. The child if allowed to live could be a stepping stone to such a growth.
I don’t think that her getting to know the guy would really be an option. You state that she doesn’t want to get to know him - I cannot understand why!
Sorry, I said no such thing; maybe you didn’t get me well. It’s not even important if she knows the criminal, it would hardly change a thing for the act is done already. She now has a bigger task to accomplish and that is keeping the pregnancy and caring for the baby when the time comes.
The rights and wrongs of abortion are constantly argued about but even the most ardent prolife supported generally agrees that in the case of rape the woman should be allowed a guilt free abortion.
My good friend, I would be the last to agree on this except you prove beyond reasonable doubts. I’ve been a prolife activist for the last six years and have no idea about this. Abortion is unconditionally accepted in cases where the mother’s life is astake and so the child’s life is taken away with the acceptance that the mother would bring forth more children if she lives and again since we are not so sure of the child’s survival during the difficulty.
Here it’s not even a matte of an agreement between people; it’s a matter of the conscience. Do you know of ‘post abortion syndrome? Call it a post abortion phobia’, that is a serious problem to many a woman. I once had a client who suffered from this kind of effect. Permit me detail it.
She got pregnant for a man who had gone to bed with her mother and her junior sister you can imagine that. When she learned of it, she wanted to get rid of anything that would remind her of such and unfortunate situation. I advised her against this and but she went ahead and had the abortion. This was her first pregnancy and know what happened? It turned out that her womb was damaged and she could not give birth in the future. She suffered from this post abortion phobias and became very aggressive. She keeps pitying and blaming her self for taking away the life of the only person that could make her life worth living. She is been having so many problems with her husband present husband who can’t support the fact that she can’t give birth any longer.
This happens in different ways to different women and should this come to pass with this present girl in question, it would not only remind her of what let to the sterility but it would make her unhappy for the rest of her life. Its all probability but we can never be so sure so to be on the safe side, it’s good to avoid such things.
In life, I’ve come to know that; Problem 1 + Escaping Problem 1 = Problem 2 so rather than create problem two by escaping problem one, its good to face your problems head on. She can remain for ever happy by keeping the pregnancy, caring for the child, and taking him/her as a special blessing from God to wipe her tear of what befell her some time in the past.
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motunrayoh!
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Re: Rape leading to an Abortion
January 8, 2004 - 07:24 AM
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frankly i don't blame her for feeling this way. what i'd advise her to do is to have the baby but she should give the baby up for adoption.getting rid of the baby isn't the solution. she should also consider the dangers of abortion to her own self.if something should go wrong, she might not be able to have any more kids or she might even lose her life. so please tell her to have the baby but not to keep the baby.
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Crystal_Abongta
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Re: Rape leading to an Abortion
January 8, 2004 - 08:56 AM
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Originally posted by motunrayo
frankly i don't blame her for feeling this way. What I’d advise her to do is to have the baby but she should give the baby up for adoption.
Nobody blames her for feeling that way; many women placed in her position might have the same feelings. We are rather criticizing such feelings and trying to make her understand the situation by looking at it from another perspective and that should be the returns of keeping the pregnancy.
Giving the child up for adoption is another better option but not the best for a young African woman. The simple reason that adopting children is still very new in this part of the world. Child adoption services are even scarce. There is much ignorance in the field and worst still; the bad practice of child trafficking, and using children for rituals makes the procedures the more difficult. Single parents are scared to the bones about what can befall the children they give out for adoption.
Getting rid of the baby isn't the solution. She should also consider the dangers of abortion to her own self. If something should go wrong, she might not be able to have any more kids or she might even lose her life. so please tell her to have the baby but not to keep the baby.
This is exactly what I’ve been trying to make her understand. We are currently exploring the various types of abortions and the consequences as she thinks over.
In any case, deciding whether to keep the baby or give him/her up for adoption would be her personal choice. I can only mediate.
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jesse adams
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Re: Rape leading to an Abortion
January 9, 2004 - 03:52 AM
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You are suggesting that the girl goes through 9 months of pregnancy with all of the psycological and physical trauma that entails considering her rape. In order to deliver a baby and then give it up. Do you not see the psycological damage this could do to the girl? Also physical danger through an abortion is no greater than having a tooth filled.
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Oloka Obbo Odongo
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Re: Rape leading to an Abortion
January 9, 2004 - 09:20 AM
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Going thruogh 9 months with the physciological touture and all the associated side effects of rape is more safer than going to abortion that may endup her life span now and forever more! , let her deliever the child as a testmony and alesson to others who choose to walk alone and on long quite roads, some time thing may sound bad but she should consider her life than any thing else.
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melissy
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Re: Rape leading to an Abortion
January 9, 2004 - 09:59 AM
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Well as a Christian, I know children are a blessing from God. Well the channel of the blessing in this case was not the best but it still remains a blessing.
Oh yes, I'm sure you really believe that - I realize from your previous posts that children are only blessings if they are heterosexual.
A child would only be an accessory to this woman to supress her feelings. I say it's the womans decision. You can't understand this issue completely. I'm not trying to be sexist, but I really don't think a man can possibly comprehend what pregnancy and raising a child under these circumstances would be like.
Abongta, why do you even bother asking others for imput? All you end up doing is shutting down their ideas and try to make yourself seem like some kind of knowledge god. In opinion, there is no 'right' or 'wrong'.
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Me
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Re: Rape leading to an Abortion
January 11, 2004 - 02:27 AM
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Abongta, I have more than a few issues with what you've been posting here, but I'll try to limit how many I bring up. Looking at this from a cultural perspective, I can understand that differences in opinion are likely. But, as was mentioned earlier, in the West even most of the staunchest pro-lifers are willing to allow abortion in the case of rape. Why? Because of the considerable physical and psychological trauma already endured by the victim. Why should she have to carry around that mark of her abuse for nine months? And be confronted by it every day if she raises the child? Who's to say she's even fit to raise a child so soon after her experience? Rape is a bit more than an "unfortunate situation". It's violent abuse, and highly traumatic.
If she wants the child, that's her right. If she doesn't, that's also her right. Frankly, it seems to me as if you indulged in a bit of power-abuse: she came to you, seeking help and understanding, and instead of trying to understand her feelings, you instantly condemned them based on your own beliefs. You're entitled to those beliefs. But who are you to impose them on others? That fetus is not a human being until it's born- it's travelling down that road, but at the beginning it's far less developed than the animals slaughtered to feed you.
"Post-abortion syndrome" may result, and you may certainly advise her of it, but to belabor the issue is to make it more likely, because you're trying to sow seeds of doubt and of disgust with oneself for not feeling capable of raising the child of their rape.
The world has more than enough people already, without the resources to take care of all of them. Forcing a woman to add another baby she doesn't want to the world's population is simply stupid.
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Mikael
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Re: Rape leading to an Abortion
January 11, 2004 - 04:33 AM
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Abongta, I'd like to address something that you posted. (I've added the ... to shorten the quote).
"She got pregnant ... When she learned of it, she wanted to get rid of anything that would remind her of such and unfortunate situation... she went ahead and had the abortion. This was her first pregnancy and know what happened? It turned out that her womb was damaged and she could not give birth in the future ... She suffered from this post abortion phobias ... She is been having so many problems with her husband present husband who can’t support the fact that she can’t give birth any longer. This happens in different ways to different women and should this come to pass with this present girl in question, it would not only remind her of what let to the sterility but it would make her unhappy for the rest of her life. Its all probability but we can never be so sure so to be on the safe side, it’s good to avoid such things."
Firstly, this is one example of a situation in which the abortion lead to complications such as loss of fertility. It's a stretch to say that the abortion is what caused all of her problems. If she was raped or if she did not want to become pregnant than having the baby could also cause many problems, and the rape itself is very traumatic. People are not always able to take care of children, and when a child is unwanted it can lead to serious familial problems. Imagine a rape victim having a baby, and the child learning that it was conceived from rape. The children can also remind the mother of the act which is very difficult to get over. Yes, it is important to love one's children, but humans are not always emotionally or mentally ready for such a huge responsibility, especially under such situations of duress.
In life, I’ve come to know that; Problem 1 + Escaping Problem 1 = Problem 2 so rather than create problem two by escaping problem one, its good to face your problems head on. She can remain for ever happy by keeping the pregnancy, caring for the child, and taking him/her as a special blessing from God to wipe her tear of what befell her some time in the past.
It's a bit of a leap of logic to assume that keeping the baby will keep her forever happy. A baby in of itself isn't necessarily for everyone. Like I said before, you can't say that all people are able to competently care for a child. In the case of a rape, when the pregnancy is unwanted, having a child will irreversibly alter a woman's life, especially if they are young, wanting to pursue higher education, or get a career in a field that interests them. It is difficult for me to conceive of telling a woman that she has no choice but to give up all of her dreams because a man raped her and therefore she must have the child. It is like saying that not only was the choice taken away from her when she was raped, but now the choice of what to do with the baby is also taken away.
What I'm saying is that the choice should be the woman's. If you believe that women should not be allowed to make their own decisions about this then you are removing control of their own lives from them.
I would suggest that Problem 1 + a solution to problem 1 = a chance at a better life, not further problems.
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Uche Eze
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Re: Rape leading to an Abortion
January 11, 2004 - 12:58 PM
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"Abongta, why do you even bother asking others for imput? All you end up doing is shutting down their ideas and try to make yourself seem like some kind of knowledge god."
Messy, I don't believe that should be a respond by any genuine intellectual. I guess Abongta's reason for bringing this in the forum is to sample various opinions, and emerge with something better. I don't want to believe he is a kind of knowledge God, coz we thesis and anti- thesis we can never arive at any synthesis.
There is no reason whatesoever, why that girl should commit abortion. This is happening in Cameroon and for one thing Cameroon law doesn't allow abortion under no circumstance.
Beside, all along, you've been talkin' of the unfortunate girl, nobody is talking of the child. Do u realise that the ultimate decision has to come but from the child. The first person who'z life is at stake is the child before the mother, this means that we ought to get the concernt of the child, whether the child will accept to be killed or not..and if you were in that child's shoes, the answer will definitely be no. SO why will you have to kill a child againts his wish (if its a boy) thatz tantamount to murder, in fact it is murder.
Furthermore, we don't know what that young man can come out to be in future. We don't know if he will be the best President the world will ever make. So why do you take the chances of killin' our best ruller?
Now, assume that i am a Bishop, I was a product of rape, if we say a child born of rape will always give nightmares and trauma to the mum, it means i am stil giving nightmares and traumas to my mum, so they should kill me now? Is that a coherent arguement? absolutely no.
Again, how can we say it will be a pepetual trauma, when we all know without doubt that, time is the hiller of all wounds.
Finally, history holds it s truism that, two wrongs has never make a right, and they will never ever make a right.
Permit me take my leave here and you all have a pleasant Sunday
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jesse adams
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Re: Rape leading to an Abortion
January 12, 2004 - 04:09 AM
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I find it difficult to actually believe I am going to say this but here goes. I agree with Abongta that as a councillor it his responsibility to describe the alternatives and potential routes forward for the girl. Whatever happens the girl will be mentally scared and will forever have to deal with her choice. To deal with rape and then a subsequent pregnancy is a nightmaqre scenario and I am sure we all hope that the girl sufferes as little as possible.
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Crystal_Abongta
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SOS
January 12, 2004 - 06:00 AM
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Originally posted by messy
Oh yes, I'm sure you really believe that - I realize from your previous posts that children are only blessings if they are heterosexual.
And there you go again, I wonder if you realize I am doing all to avoid lousy drones like your damn self. This topic has nothing to do with sexual preferences ok; your callousness is enough to make one vomit. Don’t ruckus so much, I can’t even border about stripping you off your pro-homosexual tendencies ‘cause you can’t be anything better than that.
… I say it's the womans decision. You can't understand this issue completely. I'm not trying to be sexist, but I really don't think a man can possibly comprehend what pregnancy and raising a child under these circumstances would be like.
Who is denying this fact? I said it in my post that I can only mediate! That is the role of a counselor ok. Go back and read what counseling is all about. If its not you to say that, it can’t be somebody else. I wonder what you are insinuating, that men have not feelings? Do you know how many children I am sponsoring now because I stopped their mothers from aborting? My words are based on physical action, not the kind of daydreaming and fallacies you are buried in ok. Just permit me conclude that you are one block of a sexist.
Abongta, why do you even bother asking others for imput? All you end up doing is shutting down their ideas and try to make yourself seem like some kind of knowledge god. In opinion, there is no 'right' or 'wrong'
So because I ask others for their opinions, I just have to sit back and swallow any shit that ephemeral ‘prophets’ like you dish out not so? For your information, I don’t even think of being a god or what ever you want to call it. That’s not part of me. Call me what ever you want do, it changes nothing in me; I am indifferent to such childishness.
Originally posted by erratic-enigma
…Why should she have to carry around that mark of her abuse for nine months? And be confronted by it every day if she raises the child? Who's to say she's even fit to raise a child so soon after her experience? Rape is a bit more than an "unfortunate situation". It's violent abuse, and highly traumatic.
You want to know why, because it is already a human life she is carrying and nobody should decide for his/her life. The Cameroon law considers the life of a human person to begin from conception and should last until natural death. Deciding thus to eliminate the innocent child’s life because she wants to save the traumas that could befall her is tantamount to murder. We condemn the act of rape and not the resultant which in this case has to do with the life of a human person.
If she wants the child, that's her right. If she doesn't, that's also her right.
I didn’t say it’s my right to stop her, I said it’s my duty to point out the pit holes ok and she alone decides. The Cameroon Law is against all forms of abortion and she has to weight the implications of her choices and not me.
Frankly, it seems to me as if you indulged in a bit of power-abuse: she came to you, seeking help and understanding, and instead of trying to understand her feelings, you instantly condemned them based on your own beliefs. You're entitled to those beliefs. But who are you to impose them on others? That fetus is not a human being until it's born- it's travelling down that road, but at the beginning it's far less developed than the animals slaughtered to feed you.
This is where I don’t get you clearly, what do you mean by “Instantly condemned” don’t try to be another Messy that would be too bad for your health. When you go to a counselor, he/she listens to your problem and proposes a way out in the most amicable way he can. The patient/client has the sole responsibility to take the final decision ok. We don’t point accusing fingers during counseling neither do counselors interrogate or usurp powers.
I don’t see how in trying to point out the possible shortcoming of a particular choice a client makes means I am imposing my personality on him/her. You make me have the impression that you are just another blabbermouth.
"Post-abortion syndrome" may result, and you may certainly advise her of it, but to belabor the issue is to make it more likely, because you're trying to sow seeds of doubt and of disgust with oneself for not feeling capable of raising the child of their rape.
Go read about counseling ok, that’s about the best help I can give you. There is no phrase that that suggest what we are discussion is what I’ve been telling her. Have you ever heard of professional ethics?
The world has more than enough people already, without the resources to take care of all of them. Forcing a woman to add another baby she doesn't want to the world's population is simply stupid.
I should have sensed this from the beginning. Well if the baby she is carrying would one day belike you with this type of ideas, then she might well need the abortion.
Originally posted by mikael
…when a child is unwanted it can lead to serious familial problems.
If I may ask, who are you to describe an innocent baby ‘unwanted?’
What I'm saying is that the choice should be the woman's. If you believe that women should not be allowed to make their own decisions about this then you are removing control of their own lives from them.
That is what I am saying, that the choice is hers. Only don’t tell me what you think I belief. We are not solving a gender problem here and nobody as said women don’t have rights to their decisions, you are informing us.
I would suggest that Problem 1 + a solution to problem 1 = a chance at a better life, not further problems.
Who was your teach in college? I need to meet him for a talk.
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