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Shavkatjon Muhammadjonov
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"A need for transcending beyond the individual concerns"
December 24, 2003 - 04:19 AM
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Dear friend of this Globe,
I am writing you with the intention to share with you my recent awakening and experiencing I had in Egypt.
I was taking part in the International Volunter day in Cairo, I was sitting on the bench looking at the beautifully grown tree in the American University.. sinking into the thoughts of the current world situation and my place in it....one sight of my eye caught a steps of someone approaching me.. looking at that directions I saw this woman coming slowly looking around...
She was a Woman from Irak working for UNDP in Baghdad.
I offered her a seat to sit sdown and relax but she refused so we started talking.. untill that time I never m,et a person from irak whom I could talk with.. I ahd my own opinion about the war and its cause and so in.. I was desperate to talk to her...
She was an Artist...an actress used to work in the theater for some years...a person with a family...used to be working in differrnt social organizations ands NGOs-very active one..
I asked her, How do you fel now and what do you think about the situation:
she says: What is changed? The situation in Irak ha got more worse then it was before... I used to go to the shops at least with not that much fear as i do now, I dont dare to stay home for I fear for my family...
Now it has become a war not Between USA and Irak but already a War between Irakis themselves...
What US is going to do when people ask questions what democracy and Freedom ahve you brough to us?
First US officials said: "We want to stop Saddam from Nuclear weapon industry or whatever.. They didnt Find anything sending their 1400 specialist for four Months, then They said Saddam has got Terrorism Connections and relation to 9.11 they didnt find anything on him.... then they came up with the idea that they Wanted to Free Irakis from this Tyrrany....and Bring peace for People... what is it now? Peope suffer more....they create d war now betwen people themselves and the Presence of their Military is increasibng a feeling of Fear and aggression betwen People"
I was touched by her story.. tears came up from her eyes and it was just tearing me apart...here I was part of the felings of that woman who was talking..
I stupidly said: "it may take 10 years to build up safety feling among people again and peace in the country"
she screamed "OHH, No, please dont say that, people try to fantasize that peace comes soon , we chose to create an illusion that everything is gonna be ok, we Wont be Able to take it for Too Long, after all We are Humans"
I felt like crying and sharing her despair with her, I felt I wanted to support her and somehow to chear up...then we slowly talked about things she liked.. I saw her Eyes just shining when she talked about Arts and her trips she was making.... We were NO different from Each other... I felt her greive and understood her.. thgough I had differemt picture of it before..
I hope and Belive that Only them, Only Iraki people Know what They Need and Want the way to Liove not only our Smart Westerners who Beleive that Their "Practiced and Truth" may eb applied for Others,
"While Saving the World Dont Forget about the World" -
My greetings to her for helping me to understand..
Shavkat
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Yara Kassem
Joined: Sep 16, 2002
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A depressing situation
December 24, 2003 - 06:38 AM
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That's the real problem..The situation in Iraq is really depressing ( actually depressing is an optimistic word)
Those people have been suffereing for more than 12 years now since 1991,by the exhausting sanctions on Iraq and I'm not saying this to discuss who is responsible for that and judge him..I'm just talking about those suffereing people,there has been a generation who didn't really experience peace and living a peacefull and normal life..
And then out of a sudden they're invaded again by some armies who claim that they do have nuclear weapons allthough most of us know allready that Iraq doesn't have any kind of weapons since the 90ties.
People there are just asking themselves what kind of freedom and democracy are these people offering,why do they spend millions of dollars and lose thousands of lives just to offer them freedom,does that make any sense???
and they're just trying to ignore the fact that the situation is getting worse,forget about ethnical wars,wars between differnt religious and cultural iraqi groups,none of them beleives in that authority supposed to rule Iraq now,when do you think they can live normally...
They're just trying to convince themselves that they're done with wars finally,that they're free..
But all of us know the painfull truth..Saddam is gone,but this didn't solve any problem,war isn't over,troubles aren't finish,and nobody knows when they'll be free...
It really breaks my heart to see all of this happening to one of my favourite places,for us Arabs Baghdad is a symbol of our civilization,our history,our glory..When Baghdad had fallen,I bet most of us have cried a lot,I don't have to be Iraqi but I felt like my pride has been taken from me,I felt a terrible humiliation...
According to history,baghdad was always the center of prosperity,the axe of civilizations,since more than 1440 years ago and whenever it falls all the Arabic world falls,like the time it was invaded by the " Mongolians" ( we call them Tatar in arabic) and then all the arabic world has fallen,and I guess it's repeating again such a painfull history...The Arabic world is just collapsing again,and I don't mean we'll be invaded again but we're just collapsing and most of us are not aware about how bad the situation is..
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Hasan
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Re: "A need for transcending beyond the individual concerns"
June 12, 2004 - 05:57 AM
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Thank you for sharing this story..
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Hasan
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A depressing situation
June 12, 2004 - 06:07 AM
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Originally posted by yarinos
According to history,baghdad was always the center of prosperity,the axe of civilizations,since more than 1440 years ago and whenever it falls all the Arabic world falls,like the time it was invaded by the " Mongolians" ( we call them Tatar in arabic) and then all the arabic world has fallen,and I guess it's repeating again such a painfull history...The Arabic world is just collapsing again,and I don't mean we'll be invaded again but we're just collapsing and most of us are not aware about how bad the situation is..
One of the most responsible person for this fall is Saddam Hossain himself. Because of his stupidity, He was made fought to Iran for 12 years. He invaded Kuwait again stupidly, and gave U.S. a big SPACE in the region.
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Arslan Jumaniyazov
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Re: "A need for transcending beyond the individual concerns"
June 12, 2004 - 09:50 AM
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This IS really a problem. This is so sad that Baghdad has fallen. I just would like to say a couple of words about the fact that the situation in Iraq had exacerbated since the "freedom has been brought" there. The same thing is in Afghanistan. The banditism, cruelty, and disorder of so-called Mujahideen (they don't deserve to be called "mujahideen" because that's completely a different thing) were the cause of the emergence of Taliban, but what US has done in Afhganistan is to restore the power of Mujahideen. So, you can imagine what the situation in Afghanistan is. As far as Iraq is concerned, who were the reasons of Saddam's tyrannical ruling? Mainly the United States and the Soviet Union. The USA never was interested in bringing democracy to any country, they do it always alongside a covet purpose. US has many interests in coming to Iraq. They don't care about Saddam's tyranny or non-existence of democracy or weapons of mass destruction there. If they were, why wouldn't they fight with North Korea, after all why wouldn't they fight with Israel--the country that has a huge amount of WMD? Iraq is a bridge between Arabic peninsula and the countries of A'jam (non-Arab part of the Muslim world, particularly Fars), and taking this place gives a lot of advantages to US. Second, it's widely known now that US is just stealing Iraqi Oil. Yet, another reason is the religious purpose of George bush. Everyone knows that Bush is a fundamental Christian. And the emergence of Fundamental Christians in America was the consequence of the failures of the Socila Gospel. And Fundamental Christians believe in the second coming of Jesus Christ, but they also believe that before his coming the prophecy of the Bible should happen. These prophecies are the re-establishment of a Jewish Nation, and the crush of Muslims. For this reason, they have established the nation of Israel in 1948, and now they are tying to crush Muslims. Bush is a member of the Fundamental Christian movement. He experienced a "reborn" several years ago and now believes that he is acting as someone who was appointed by God. This is so sad. I hope all Muslims can one day gather together and oppose this imminent threat. Not only Muslims, but the whole world should be concerned about this because this is threat to everyone.
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Cicero
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Re: "A need for transcending beyond the individual concerns"
June 13, 2004 - 02:56 AM
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As a System Lord i see strenghtening up Iraq as a challenge. How would i play it?
I would separate Iraq into smaller pieces, because it is such a diverse place.
When separated, do a wide query who is who and what is his living like. (much needed to do decisions in their favour)
Would select an overall leader, which would be a Shiite, which represents the majority community in the country and as such needs validation.
From this point on, we would tackle things at a local and LOCAL ONLY level. That works good in Futurism and it for sure would work in any other community/culture on the globe.
The basic unit in the structure of the country would have UP TO 10.000 people in it. No more, would be too big to handle by individual leader. This allows focusing better for all the decision makers.
So the leader (which will act alike System Lord) will be on lookout for opportunities constantly and will need replacements and support.
Most stressed will be economy, as a tool to provide all people with good living. so what will be done first is making a copy of now very charished Futurist economy:
OWNED, GUIDED & FREE.
Starting with OWNED first, to provide basic services: Health care, electricity, train and bus service, later phone lines and internet. And airplnes.
After solving those given duties, we achieved almost everything needed for the country. (90 %). Not to relax now, we have ot finish off the campaign, by giving people "good living" and sustainable economy.
Guided & Free economy for all that want to work and benefit from the work in real time. Guided stresses employment before profitability, while Free stresses profitability as a priority on which other adapt to.
I dont know hom would Sunni's and Shiites react to this approach, if they would be able to reach good living of all by following this economic style. But as i am concerned Futurists are doing remarkable good that way.
Also there should be lots of done on freedom of the Individual, as unfree person cannot make anything strong, as he is limited in his efforts.
So i am asking you this: how do you feel about it?
Ave Futuria: Freedom ! Equality ! Progress !
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hammodi
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Re: "A need for transcending beyond the individual concerns"
June 13, 2004 - 09:39 AM
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Thank you for the feelings you have for the Iraqi people. You care about us.
Shavkatpeace, you said “I felt like crying and sharing her despair with her, I felt I wanted to support her and somehow to chear up”
I don’t know to whom you have talked but obviously she gave you a completely wrong idea.
>I used to go to the shops at least with not that much fear as i do now
This is so exaggerated. You can come to Iraq, and I will take you in a ride and show you hundreds of people shopping because NOW they have much better salaries than saddam (God curse him) used to give them.
I really appreciate your words because it shows that you care about other people. Some people in Iraq hate the “occupation” like the woman you talked to. But others (the majority) know that the “occupation” is heaven compared to saddam. You can read my other posts in the forum (Was the war in Iraq justified? Starting from page 16)
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hammodi
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Re: A depressing situation
June 13, 2004 - 09:41 AM
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Yarinos, you are a typical Arabic who sit in her country being sorry for the Iraqis because they are “occupied” by America and don’t care about all the human beings who were killed by saddam who was building his palaces when MILLIONS of Iraqi children died of diseases and mal nutrition. After that you are sorry that America saved us. You know what you are right maybe we should have lived under saddam’s regime so that you don’t feel sorry. Please why weren’t you sorry about us before? You Arabs we came to you asking and pleading to help us get rid of saddam but you refused.
<<for>>
Listen Arabs don’t have civilization or glory. The only thing that they have is oil which they didn’t know about it untill the West came and discovered it then the West bring their machines and brought the oil up or else it would be lying down there till now.
<<When Baghdad had fallen,I bet most of us have cried a lot,I don't have to be Iraqi but I felt like my pride has been taken from me,I felt a terrible humiliation...>>
Baghdad is my home and when it “had fallen” I was as happy as never because at last I am free which is a word you will not understand the joy of it unless you have lived under saddam (God curse him). Maybe your pride has been taken but mine has been given back to me and to all those who lost their sons as they were murdered by saddam all those who were homeless because saddam dried the marshes that they lived in for hundreds of years.
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hammodi
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Re: "A need for transcending beyond the individual concerns"
June 13, 2004 - 09:44 AM
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TheCodoba, saddam fought Iran for 8 years.
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Arslan Jumaniyazov
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Re: "A need for transcending beyond the individual concerns"
June 21, 2004 - 01:43 AM
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Hammodi, I don't understand what you mean by "Arabs don't have civilization." What do you mean by that? How about the advancement in cilivation of Arabs while Europe was in the darkness? Everybody knows this, including Europeans. Can you please explain what you mean.
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LLOYDLUNA.com
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Biblical
June 21, 2004 - 02:18 AM
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What happens today are all biblical and I think the best thing we could do is to keep on praying. I always believe in the power of prayer and proven the same in my daily struggle in life. I think more than this chaos lies an spritual battle that each and every should win. Regardless of race or religion, it's high time that we surrender ourselves to somebody up there.
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Edward Leh
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Only Time will Tell
June 22, 2004 - 02:07 AM
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I see you are from Tajikistan. I have been there a few times first in 1995 just after the breakup of the Soviet Union. You know how dangerous is was there. They were fighting dailey in Dushambe and the areas south of the city. Also the rebels (terrorists if you want to call them) were fighting and held the mountainous regions and later even invaded Lenninbad (Koujohn). I returned there a few times there was no heat in in the city, electricity was very erratic. food was scarce etc. This has just improved in the last 4-5 years. Look how long it took. Many of the other counties Kyrghzstan, Uzbechistan etc all had long term problems. Many are not resolved yet. Uzbechs vs Tajiks etc. It took years for Germany and many Eurpean Counties to recover after WWII. Why today does everyone think this war would be over and everything be normal immediatly??????
It takes time ---Haste makes Waste----
They must go slow or many mistakes can be made. I believe they are going to fast now.
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hammodi
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Re: "A need for transcending beyond the individual concerns"
July 6, 2004 - 02:26 AM
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Originally posted by Arslanik
Hammodi, I don't understand what you mean by "Arabs don't have civilization." What do you mean by that? How about the advancement in cilivation of Arabs while Europe was in the darkness? Everybody knows this, including Europeans. Can you please explain what you mean.
Arslanik, I am an Arab and I studied the history of Arabs. Arabs had a civilization but now they have nothing. Now Arabs are so ignorant in all the fields of life, this is a fact which I hate but still is a fact. Arabs can’t be proud because they once were powerful and advanced while now they are nothing.
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Injy
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Hammodi
July 7, 2004 - 04:56 AM
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I do somehow agree with your point of Arabs now are "more", I added it as my opinion, ignorant than before, but do not give cruel sweeping generalisation that they "have no civilisation". I am like you do not like the majority of them when they boast with some points of their history and that is IT, being too lazy, maybe, too reluctant, maybe to, too confused where to start a new one, maybe, or too falsely satisfied with their present condition. BUT, do not deny that there are few among them really brilliant, sure in comparison to the Arab population, is a source of real embarressing.
Hammodi, you are an Arab, and you know it is not the way you should address any typical Arab to change by attacking them or telling them you do not "have civilisation" because then you give them a way to diverge from your argument.
So as an Arab Hammodi, how you think we can change our societies??
Peace,
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Injy
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One more point
July 7, 2004 - 04:59 AM
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When Japan re-built itself after WW2, they did not get rid of their roots or their traditions, and they still are proud of it. They simply frankly admitted their mistake of waging wars all over Asia, which they consider a source of shame from the many Japanese I have tackled this issue with. Then, they were able to build the Present Second Biggest Economy.
Peace,
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