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M.F.Mughal
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Sample Of Islamic Sharia (a Must Read)
December 12, 2003 - 01:28 AM
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This link is to muslim students' association site.
http://www.uh.edu/campus/msa/articles/fatawawom/Content.html
Please see how islam ruins lives by way of placing so many restrictions on people.
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asdf
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Re: Sample Of Islamic Sharia (a Must Read)
December 12, 2003 - 02:27 AM
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I don't understand how Islam ruins lives.
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Chiran
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Re: Sample Of Islamic Sharia (a Must Read)
December 12, 2003 - 03:10 AM
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I read parts of the web site you posted, and honestly I fail to see how Islam “ruins” the lives of people. Would you clarify how exactly Islam “ruins” peoples lives?
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Raymond M. Kristiansen
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Re: Sample Of Islamic Sharia (a Must Read)
December 12, 2003 - 05:26 AM
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to say that Islam ruins lives is the same as saying that Christianity ruins lives. Ie that it is the religion itself that ruins.
But just as there have been pietistic christianity or a chrisitanity like that of Salem, USA or that of the inquisition in Europe, there have been, and is, extreme forms of Islam which SURELY ruins the lives of people.
Again, I ask that we focus on supporting the moderate forces within religion. Those who focus on the essence, not the enforcing my interpretation of the Religious texts on you... Islam is about love, and passion, and humanity, just like the words of Jesus Christ was. The fact that idiots have abused religion for their own petty causes is a totally different issue.
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mermaid
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whatEVER
December 13, 2003 - 01:14 AM
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i really feel sorry for the likes of you, mmughal. i am not a muslim not christian nor jew but i have read lots about all of them and i can honestly say you are pathetically trying to attack ur ex religion and dont even have suporting evidence. christians are not terorists just because of the cruscades. jews are not terorists because of israelis in palestine. same with muslims. plz have a brain for a change.
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M.F.Mughal
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Re: Sample Of Islamic Sharia (a Must Read)
December 13, 2003 - 01:16 AM
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http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?WFH1
http://womenforhumanity.org/index.php
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M.F.Mughal
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Re: Sample Of Islamic Sharia (a Must Read)
December 13, 2003 - 01:28 AM
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Dear friends,
Thanks for your response. You said that I do not have any evidence for what I say. This simply means you have not bother visiting the links or reading the related articles on the links.
Tell me how many muslim apostate have you met in your life? Ask yourselves, why you did not come across them? That is the real face of islam. The evidence of what islam really is, is in the quran and books of hadith and the books of islamic fiqh such as the one I quoted in the beginning.
Here is the Concept Of Jihad As It Is In The Quran.
For online quranic translations visit the following link.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/
NO COMPULSION IN RELIGION 2/256, 60/8, 109/6 etc.
My understanding is that the quran commands its follower to make nonmuslims embrace islam by all means including force and violence.
Here is why I reached this conclusion.
A) The quran divides the world into two groups, believers and unbelievers. The believers are called the party of Allah and the unbelievers are called party of satan 4/76, 5/59, 58/19-22 etc.
B) The quran clearly states that Allah has sent islam to overcome all other religions 9/33, 14/27, 37/173, 40/51, 48/28, 61/9, 66/6. Moreover it is promised that believers will overcome the unbelievers, perhaps, to give them the sense or encouragement that they should. Not only that but muslim are told to be harsh on nonmuslims, overcome them and humiliate them as much as possible.
C) The ways and means of propagating islam are also stated in the quran eg exchanging ideas nicely to convince the other side 16/125, 25/63, 29/46, 31/18-19 etc etc. Also by insulting, provoking and threatening the other side 2/6-20, 170-171, 6/25, 39, 7/176, 179, 8/55, 59-67, 9/28, 34, 10/43, 21/51-69, 22/46, 73, 25/44, 27/20-44, 80, 31/9, 35/22, 43/40, 46/26, 47/4, 12, 62/5, 63/4, 66/6 etc etc.
The idea seems to be that when weak talk to people nicely to convince them. When no longer weak, just invite people to islam even by provoking them by insults. Should this result in an armed attack, be ready to defend. However, when strong, just order infidels to turn muslims or all hell is going to break loose upon them.
In case of war, go for mass murder do not take captives till you have killed a good number of them and they are well humiliated. The captives are further humiliated by way of being looted and enslaved for good. Their women and children are humiliated by way of slavery. Their women have to sleep with anyone whoever can force himself upon them. I rather abstain from putting too much detail here, for people should read the holy quran and the hadith for themselves in this regard and see what kind of battles were fought by muslims at the time and how they treated their enemies when they had overcome them.
The quran not only condones tribal warfare but takes it a step further in the wrong direction in a more organised and forceful way. The other way to look at the quran is to see its revelational sequence ie which sura or verses were revealed before or after which. This helps to see how muslims behaviour changed as they gained more and more power and older laws were redundant by rule of abrogation. For example, no compulsion in religion verses were revealed earlier than those that cancel them by way of abrogation as is clearly stated in eminent sunni and shia tafaseer or commentaries on the quran.
I am not looking for justifications of these action on the basis of history and historical context but from the perspective of divinity and divine messenger-ship. We can assume for argument sake that the other people were barbarian but purpose of islam was allegedly not to respond in kind but to turn them into sensible human beings. At least that is what is preached nowadays about islam. The quran and the hadith as well as Islamic history tell us a very confusing but telling story.
Some stories in ahadith are not worth posting because they are so graphic about blood shed and mass rape of captured women, they are so low in morality, even tribals used to deal with each other better than that.
My view is that muslim writers have been hyping up stories to create a better contrast for muslims as a better people in sense of their power rather their morals or ethics. However, in reporting things, they made serious errors by not leaving any room for justifying things under the label of ethics ie universally accepted rules of decency.
For example, most Islamic books would have us believe that people in Arabia in time of Muhammad were ignorant, worthless, barbarian and had no respect for life or liberty etc etc. Muhammad came and brought them out of this depth of immorality and darkness of ignorance etc etc.
We are also told that some of these people were literate and very sensible who were businessmen and produced very good pieces of literature etc etc. For example, when muslims talk about the challenges of the quran as to none could produce like it, they very proudly state that the eminent scholars of Arabia at the time could not produce a single sura like that of the quran. So where do these scholars of Arabia suddenly pop out from amongst people in depths in darkness? We are also told that makkah was a centre of trade and commerce. This also means these people were very peaceful and progressive, for it is impossible for such things to happen unless right conditions exist for them. You cannot have a thriving trade centre in middle of war torn city or country. If arabs were busy in tribal warfare then how did Muhammad get married into a different religion family? This indicates the fact that relationship between various tribes belonging to different religious background were really good or why would jews and Christians etc do business with arab pagans and give them jobs or even go for intermarriages etc etc?
To me it would seem that it were muslims who are to be blamed for whatever went wrong after the declaration of Muhammad’s prophet-hood. Somebody is scheming here and fingers would point to a person or a group that has caused this disharmony in a people who are all living peacefully and going about their daily business successfully.
It seems that muslims have been having designs right from the word go to dominate the world. The reason why islam spread so fast and wide is not that Muhammad managed to convince so many people about the truth of islam over night, which jews failed to do then and muslims fail to do today -even though people are more civilised and better educated- but that Arab world was caught by surprise. People who are living peacefully do not expect to be suddenly attacked from all sides. Once a few people joined together in scheming and brought along some members of their tribes, it was not possible for individual tribes to combat them. And as the number grew it gave muslims a great advantage. Most of all it was an easy way to earn one’s livelihood ie by conquering, looting and enslaving people and being praised for it.
The idea is very similar in some suicide bombing campaigns. Even useless people become heroes over night. This fact took ages for America to realise that because people praise these people for carrying out such acts, some really get the buzz out of dying for such causes. Imagine a young lad who is broke and so has no future prospect and no girl would even look at him never mind marry him, suddenly beautiful girls crying for him and shouting his name. I do not mean by this that all causes are useless and so are all those who take part in them but that this is a factor in this story.
Anyway lets go back, I am talking about problems with my understanding of islam ie in this case my problem with concept of jihad.
I am quite aware of the fact that some muslims take it to mean struggle in general or a defensive war not an offensive war in the name of islam. However, the sense I get after reading the quran and hadith is that in islam jihad is an offensive war as well. For example, notice the emphasis in the quran on war, verses after verses in sura after sura are devoted to it. You do not emphasise things that are not important that way, do you? Also read in the quran the story of King Solomon in sura 27/20-44. He suddenly finds by hoopoe that a people worship the sun etc and invites them to give their this belief up for islam or they will have to face the wrath of his army.
Since there is a lesson in the quran for those who follow it, the lesson here seems to be quite clear that if you can then stop people by force if you have to from having beliefs against islam regardless where-ever they are on the earth or whether they bother you or not. Moreover notice the loss of temper of Solomon when he says, how he is going to deal with hoopoe. Solomon is not only a king to muslims but a divine prophet as well, whose example must be followed.
Take the story of Abraham 21/51– 71 etc. He is hell bent on teaching idol worshipper a lesson. To make his point he breaks their idols in their temple into pieces thus defiles their holy shrine or religious holy place. Is this not a provocative act? Was it at all necessary to make the point Abraham made? Nonetheless muslim must follow Abraham, says the quran 60/4-6.
The point I am making here is that the quran teaches muslims to deliberately provoke people and start a fight where there is none just because others do not believe what muslims believe.
The question therefore arises whether islam is really religion of peace or of war? The answers from the quran seems to be that islam is religion of war. Abraham is enemy of those who do not believe like him, he hates them because of their wrong beliefs and he is the example the muslims are told to follow. All this proves that muslims are incapable of living in peace with anyone who holds different religious beliefs. If they are trying now, it is only because they are unable to get their way as things stand at the moment.
Not long ago hindus demolished the babri masjid in india, was that a good thing? I am sure it was not because something has been done long ago should not have been disturbed ie let the by-gones be by-gone. But example is again that, Muhammad took over makkah and cleared all the idols from it ie about 360 from ka’ba alone. The question is, was he right in doing that? Were makkan idols in ka’ba (the holy cube) worshipped only by makkans who treated Muhammad allegedly badly or did people come to makkah for pilgrimage from other places as well and so it was their shrine also? The quran tells that it was 9/1–, 22/25, 105/1-, 106/1- etc etc. Makkah was religious centre for many people. So there was no excuse for muhammad for any such action in reaction to makkan actions even if they were harsh to him and his muslim followers. He was suppose to set good examples that led to peace, not the bad ones that led to wars.
The problem is similar in Israel and Palestine conflict over Jerusalem. Muslims claim that ka’ba in Makkah was build by Abraham and belonged to them. There is no proof that that was the case. Moreover even if that was the case, the ka’ba was now taken over by pagans so it should have been left the way it was. Hindus also want to build Ram mandir in place of babri masjid, claiming it to be lord rama’s birth place. So if muslims were right in taking over kaba then hindus cannot be wrong in reclaiming what they claim is theirs. In fact muslims are proud that they took over nonmuslim places of worship and converted them into their own places of worship. This is what I mean by religions rather than helping us solve our daily problems they add to them. I do not know how many more innocent lives will have to be lost in order to satisfy this religion based madness.
The hatred that islam creates between people in my views becomes very obvious if one reads the quran oneself. In verses I have quoted above, muslims are told in later verses to have nothing to do even with their very own relatives if they choose different beliefs or religion 9/24, 58/22, 60/1- etc etc. The quran even insults nonmuslims calling them dirty, like donkey, dog or worse than the worse animals 7/176, 8/55, 9/28, 62/5 etc etc. If we ourselves develop negative attitude towards other people then we cannot blame them for their reaction either, can we?
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M.F.Mughal
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Re: Sample Of Islamic Sharia (a Must Read)
December 13, 2003 - 01:40 AM
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Evidence or if you like exibit number(2)
HOW ISLAM DEALS WITH ITS APOSTATES
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/
Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:
Narrated 'Ikrima:
Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"
Volume 9, Book 84, Number 58:
Narrated Abu Burda:
Abu Musa said, "I came to the Prophet along with two men (from the tribe) of Ash'ariyin, one on my right and the other on my left, while Allah's Apostle was brushing his teeth (with a Siwak), and both men asked him for some employment. The Prophet said, 'O Abu Musa (O 'Abdullah bin Qais!).' I said, 'By Him Who sent you with the Truth, these two men did not tell me what was in their hearts and I did not feel (realize) that they were seeking employment.' As if I were looking now at his Siwak being drawn to a corner under his lips, and he said, 'We never (or, we do not) appoint for our affairs anyone who seeks to be employed. But O Abu Musa! (or 'Abdullah bin Qais!) Go to Yemen.'" The Prophet then sent Mu'adh bin Jabal after him and when Mu'adh reached him, he spread out a cushion for him and requested him to get down (and sit on the cushion). Behold: There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu'adh asked, "Who is this (man)?" Abu Muisa said, "He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism." Then Abu Muisa requested Mu'adh to sit down but Mu'adh said, "I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice. Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, "Then we discussed the night prayers and one of us said, 'I pray and sleep, and I hope that Allah will reward me for my sleep as well as for my prayers.'"
Volume 9, Book 84, Number 59:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
When the Prophet died and Abu Bakr became his successor and some of the Arabs reverted to disbelief, 'Umar said, "O Abu Bakr! How can you fight these people although Allah's Apostle said, 'I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah, 'and whoever said, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah', Allah will save his property and his life from me, unless (he does something for which he receives legal punishment) justly, and his account will be with Allah?' "Abu Bakr said, "By Allah! I will fight whoever differentiates between prayers and Zakat as Zakat is the right to be taken from property (according to Allah's Orders). By Allah! If they refused to pay me even a kid they used to pay to Allah's Apostle, I would fight with them for withholding it." 'Umar said, "By Allah: It was nothing, but I noticed that Allah opened Abu Bakr's chest towards the decision to fight, therefore I realized that his decision was right."
Volume 9, Book 84, Number 64:
Narrated 'Ali:
Whenever I tell you a narration from Allah's Apostle, by Allah, I would rather fall down from the sky than ascribe a false statement to him, but if I tell you something between me and you (not a Hadith) then it was indeed a trick (i.e., I may say things just to cheat my enemy). No doubt I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "During the last days there will appear some young foolish people who will say the best words but their faith will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will have no faith) and will go out from (leave) their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, where-ever you find them, kill them, for who-ever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection."
Volume 9, Book 84, Number 67:
Narrated Abu Sa'id:
While the Prophet was distributing (something, 'Abdullah bin Dhil Khawaisira At-Tamimi came and said, "Be just, O Allah's Apostle!" The Prophet said, "Woe to you ! Who would be just if I were not?" 'Umar bin Al-Khattab said, "Allow me to cut off his neck ! " The Prophet said, " Leave him, for he has companions, and if you compare your prayers with their prayers and your fasting with theirs, you will look down upon your prayers and fasting, in comparison to theirs. Yet they will go out of the religion as an arrow darts through the game's body in which case, if the Qudhadh of the arrow is examined, nothing will be found on it, and when its Nasl is examined, nothing will be found on it; and then its Nadiyi is examined, nothing will be found on it. The arrow has been too fast to be smeared by dung and blood. The sign by which these people will be recognized will be a man whose one hand (or breast) will be like the breast of a woman (or like a moving piece of flesh). These people will appear when there will be differences among the people (Muslims)." Abu Sa'id added: I testify that I heard this from the Prophet and also testify that 'Ali killed those people while I was with him. The man with the description given by the Prophet was brought to 'Ali. The following Verses were revealed in connection with that very person (i.e., 'Abdullah bin Dhil-Khawaisira At-Tarnimi): 'And among them are men who accuse you (O Muhammad) in the matter of (the distribution of) the alms.' (9.58)
Volume 8, Book 82, Number 794:
Narrated Anas:
Some people from the tribe of 'Ukl came to the Prophet and embraced Islam. The climate of Medina did not suit them, so the Prophet ordered them to go to the (herd of milch) camels of charity and to drink, their milk and urine (as a medicine). They did so, and after they had recovered from their ailment (became healthy) they turned renegades (reverted from Islam) and killed the shepherd of the camels and took the camels away. The Prophet sent (some people) in their pursuit and so they were (caught and) brought, and the Prophets ordered that their hands and legs should be cut off and that their eyes should be branded with heated pieces of iron, and that their cut hands and legs should not be cauterized, till they die.
Volume 8, Book 82, Number 795:
Narrated Anas:
The Prophet cut off the hands and feet of the men belonging to the tribe of 'Uraina and did not cauterise (their bleeding limbs) till they died.
Volume 8, Book 82, Number 796:
Narrated Anas:
A group of people from 'Ukl (tribe) came to the Prophet and they were living with the people of As-Suffa, but they became ill as the climate of Medina did not suit them, so they said, "O Allah's Apostle! Provide us with milk." The Prophet said, I see no other way for you than to use the camels of Allah's Apostle." So they went and drank the milk and urine of the camels, (as medicine) and became healthy and fat. Then they killed the shepherd and took the camels away. When a help-seeker came to Allah's Apostle, he sent some men in their pursuit, and they were captured and brought before mid day. The Prophet ordered for some iron pieces to be made red hot, and their eyes were branded with them and their hands and feet were cut off and were not cauterized. Then they were put at a place called Al-Harra, and when they asked for water to drink they were not given till they died. (Abu Qilaba said, "Those people committed theft and murder and fought against Allah and His Apostle."
Volume 8, Book 82, Number 797:
Narrated Anas bin Malik:
A group of people from 'Ukl (or 'Uraina) tribe ----but I think he said that they were from 'Ukl came to Medina and (they became ill, so) the Prophet ordered them to go to the herd of (Milch) she-camels and told them to go out and drink the camels' urine and milk (as a medicine). So they went and drank it, and when they became healthy, they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels. This news reached the Prophet early in the morning, so he sent (some) men in their pursuit and they were captured and brought to the Prophet before midday. He ordered to cut off their hands and legs and their eyes to be branded with heated iron pieces and they were thrown at Al-Harra, and when they asked for water to drink, they were not given water. (Abu Qilaba said, "Those were the people who committed theft and murder and reverted to disbelief after being believers (Muslims), and fought against Allah and His Apostle".
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M.F.Mughal
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Re: Sample Of Islamic Sharia (a Must Read)
December 13, 2003 - 01:44 AM
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Islam allows slavery (exibit number 3)
Although muslims tell me that islam is all about brotherhood, equality, fair treatment of each other, and mutual love and respect etc, the quran and the hadith also paint another picture of islam ie it allowed slavery to continue as I understand it. In fact contradictory dogmas and statements are part of islam as I have already explained.
The quran states that all people originate from the very same parents 4/1, 49/13 etc etc. Also that none is better than the other except the ones who do god's will better. The hadith also tells the same eg the elderly has no superiority over the youngster, white has no superiority over black etc etc.
Does this mean all people are equal before the law as far as islam is concerned? The answer seems to be, no. There is first of all discrimination between muslims and nonmuslims. Then between muslim men and muslim women. Then there is discrimination between muslim masters and muslim slaves.
I have already quoted the verses that divide people into two camps ie party of allah and party of satan. The party of allah is told to be tough on infidels 9/28, 67, 49/29 etc etc.
The ruler of muslims can only and only be a muslim 2/221, 4/34, 58-65, 24/51 etc etc. The ruler cannot be a muslim slave nor a muslim woman.
A muslim man is allowed to wed four women at the same time and is allowed to change them at will 4/3,20. There is no limit on him having slave girls. The wife obviously has no right to limit the number of her husband's sexual partners ie wives and slave girls. So long as one can afford it one is free to do as one pleases. There is no restriction in the quran as regard buying and selling of slaves, male or female. Since a man can have as many partners as he wants by changing wives or slave girls for example, the sexual morality in islam seems to be as good as nonexistent. Moreover a wife is property of her husband and so are her children the property of their father, thus the mother has no right to her children. So good for the paradise being underneath the mother’s feet and that the one who finds either of his parents’ still alive in their old age must take good care of them. Who knows where one’s mother would end up if she is property of her husband who can change her at will? Moreover where are the resources going to come from to take care of their needs if son is going to sit at home for looking after his parents? The quran is silent as usual, you would have to think for that yourselves. The quran is only political when it comes to controlling people and it has no answers when it comes to solving their economics based problems of invention, production or distribution etc etc.
All this gives rise to yet another question, how good the original muslims were? The quran clearly states the answer in 2/221, 4/25, 23/6, 24/3, 43/18 and elsewhere. These muslims were happy to keep their muslim sisters as slave girls, so one can see how charitable and loving were muslims as a people towards each other. What an excellent Islamic community! I would not say anything more than that. Now people who could keep muslims as slaves (ie their own very brothers and sisters in faith) could not be expected to let go their nonmuslim slaves, could they? What an excellent utopia Islamic welfare state, of which present muslims are dreaming all the time! Was it their fault? No, they were programmed or allowed to be so by the quran, so it was not their fault, was it? Moreover a man is allowed by the quran to beat up his wife and so it is yet more easier for a man to beat up his slaves girls, for they do not have any family or tribal ties that their folk will come to their aid eg fathers or brothers etc.
Here is al-bukhaari link for hadees and see what it says about slave girls as regard their faith ie were they believers or not? Note also the advice given to these slaves ie work hard for your masters, for Allah will be very pleased. Does this not encourage exploitation? People who turn muslim after being defeated by muslims there is hesitation on returning even their own looted stuff back. By the way these are just a few reports for sample. For more one will have to consult many other hadith and tafaseer books or even to sira=biographies of the prophet andislamic history accounts.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/046.sbt.html
Volume 3, Book 46, Number 716:
Narrated Marwan and Al-Miswar bin Makhrama:
When the delegates of the tribe of Hawazin came to the Prophet and they requested him to return their properties and captives. The Prophet stood up and said to them, "I have other people with me in this matter (as you see) and the most beloved statement to me is the true one; you may choose either the properties or the prisoners as I have delayed their distribution." The Prophet had waited for them for more than ten days since his arrival from Ta'if. So, when it became evident to them that the Prophet was not going to return them except one of the two, they said, "We choose our prisoners." The Prophet got up amongst the people and glorified and praised Allah as He deserved and said, "Then after, these brethren of yours have come to us with repentance, and I see it logical to return them the captives. So, whoever amongst you likes to do that as a favor, then he can do it, and whoever of you likes to stick to his share till we recompense him from the very first war booty which Allah will give us, then he can do so (i.e. give up the present captives)." The people unanimously said, "We do that (return the captives) willingly." The Prophet said, "We do not know which of you has agreed to it and which have not, so go back and let your leaders forward us your decision." So, all the people then went back and discussed the matter with their leaders who returned and informed the Prophet that all the people had willingly given their consent to return the captives. This is what has reached us about the captives of Hawazin. Narrated Anas that 'Abbas said to the Prophet, "I paid for my ransom and Aqil's ransom."
Volume 3, Book 46, Number 717:
Narrated Ibn Aun:
I wrote a letter to Nafi and Nafi wrote in reply to my letter that the Prophet had suddenly attacked Bani Mustaliq without warning while they were heedless and their cattle were being watered at the places of water. Their fighting men were killed and their women and children were taken as captives; the Prophet got Juwairiya on that day. Nafi said that Ibn 'Umar had told him the above narration and that Ibn 'Umar was in that army.
Volume 3, Book 46, Number 718:
Narrated Ibn Muhairiz:
I saw Abu Said and asked him about coitus interruptus. Abu Said said, "We went with Allah's Apostle, in the Ghazwa of Barli Al-Mustaliq and we captured some of the 'Arabs as captives, and the long separation from our wives was pressing us hard and we wanted to practice coitus interruptus. We asked Allah's Apostle (whether it was permissible). He said, "It is better for you not to do so. No soul, (that which Allah has) destined to exist, up to the Day of Resurrection, but will definitely come, into existence."
Volume 3, Book 46, Number 721:
Narrated Al-Ma'rur bin Suwaid:
I saw Abu Dhar Al-Ghifari wearing a cloak, and his slave, too, was wearing a cloak. We asked him about that (i.e. how both were wearing similar cloaks). He replied, "Once I abused a man and he complained of me to the Prophet . The Prophet asked me, 'Did you abuse him by slighting his mother?' He added, 'Your slaves are your brethren upon whom Allah has given you authority. So, if one has one's brethren under one's control, one should feed them with the like of what one eats and clothe them with the like of what one wears. You should not overburden them with what they cannot bear, and if you do so, help them (in their hard job)."
Volume 3, Book 46, Number 722:
Narrated Ibn 'Umar:
Allah's Apostle said, "If a slave is honest and faithful to his master and worships his Lord (Allah) in a perfect manner, he will get a double reward."
Volume 3, Book 46, Number 723:
Narrated Abu Musa Al-Ashari:
The Prophet said, "He who has a slave-girl and teaches her good manners and improves her education and then manumits and marries her, will get a double reward; and any slave who observes Allah's right and his master's right will get a double reward."
Volume 3, Book 46, Number 724:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "A pious slave gets a double reward." Abu Huraira added: By Him in Whose Hands my soul is but for Jihad (i.e. holy battles), Hajj, and my duty to serve my mother, I would have loved to die as a slave.
Volume 3, Book 46, Number 725:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, "Goodness and comfort are for him who worships his Lord in a perfect manner and serves his master sincerely."
Volume 3, Book 46, Number 726:
Narrated 'Abdullah:
The Prophet said, "If a slave serves his Saiyid (i.e. master) sincerely and worships his Lord (Allah) perfectly, he will get a double reward."
Volume 3, Book 46, Number 727:
Narrated Abu Musa:
The Prophet said, "The Mamluk (slave) who worships his Lord in a perfect manner, and is dutiful, sincere and obedient to his Saiyid (master), will get a double reward."
Volume 3, Book 46, Number 728:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, "You should not say, 'Feed your lord (Rabbaka), help your lord in performing ablution, or give water to your lord, but should say, 'my master (e.g. Feed your master instead of lord etc.) (Saiyidi), or my guardian (Maulai), and one should not say, my slave (Abdi), or my girl-slave (Amati), but should say, my lad (Fatai), my lass (Fatati), and 'my boy (Ghulami)."
Volume 3, Book 46, Number 729:
Narrated Ibn 'Umar:
The Prophet said, "If one manumits his share of a common slave (Abd), and he has money sufficient to free the remaining portion of the price of the slave (justly estimated), then he should free the slave completely by paying the rest of his price; otherwise the slave is freed partly. "
Volume 3, Book 46, Number 730:
Narrated 'Abdullah:
Allah's Apostle said, "Everyone of you is a guardian and is responsible for his charges. The ruler who has authority over people, is a guardian and is responsible for them, a man is a guardian of his family and is responsible for them; a woman is a guardian of her husband's house and children and is responsible for them; a slave ('Abu) is a guardian of his master's property and is responsible for it; so all of you are guardians and are responsible for your charges."
Volume 3, Book 46, Number 731:
Narrated Abu Huraira and Zaid bin Khalid:
The Prophet said, "If a slave-girl (Ama) commits illegal se-xual intercourse, scourge her; if she does it again, scourge her again; if she repeats it, scourge her again." The narrator added that on the third or the fourth offence, the Prophet said, "Sell her even for a hair rope."
Volume 3, Book 46, Number 734:
Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "If somebody fights (or beats somebody) then he should avoid the face."
Many a time one will hear that islam brought slavery to an end and removed racism etc etc but one can clearly see that that is not true. Even if today islam had the upper hand, the human rights will be thrown out of the window and people will be forced to live by islam as dictated in the quran and the hadees or the fiqh, for that is what islam really is.
Please remember that my point is that these books are not good enough to be attributed to all merciful god or his messenger, because according to my understanding they teach things which go against what humanity is all about. This is why I am in a dilemma ie in a catch 22 situation. Will I be doing the right thing by attributing such terrible teachings to my creator, who is supposed to be all knowing and very kind?
Again we are not judging islam in historic context as part of natural evolution but in context of its claim for divine origin. One may ask, how would I go about things? I do not know, for I myself am no god at all but I would expect that god would not go along with what unfair people think and do. He would set out his own vision and standard for them to follow and that would be the best if not perfect. I expect it would be based upon the principle of fairness and equality. Giving people choice to cooperate freely for their own good or go to hell. In case of the quran and the hadith, it seems the quran is playing in the hands of the prophet and the prophet is playing in the hands of the people who allegedly are his followers. For example, quran is taking into consideration even prophet’s and peoples’ unfair and wrong desires rather than telling them straight to their face what is right or fair and what is wrong or unfair as far as god was concerned. We see verse after verse coming down as Muhammad and his followers desire and what they desired is clearly written in the quran and the hadith, what a terrible joke!
For example, if slavery was wrong then god ought to tell the people so and forbid it right from the beginning. Let people then accept or reject his message at their own peril. The way the quran is dealing with this situation is creating a two tear system or double standard that those people were allowed to get their way but we are not. So one can see why I have problems with religions and scriptures because they raise serious questions in my mind rather than trying to help me solve the problem I am facing in living my daily life as a good human being.
The quran allows slavery by clear verses but contains no clear-cut verse as regard abolishing it, hence I am of the view that as far as the quran is concerned, slavery is fine even today. So one can see how dangerous islam is if people fell prey to it and also why the quran is not the word of god.
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Eric Nicolas Schneider
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Re: Sample Of Islamic Sharia (a Must Read)
December 13, 2003 - 01:44 AM
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ahoi everybody...
i see various ISLAMS in academics, country peasants, city workers, in middle east, northwest africa, black africa, south africa...
and they are seriously different depending on the societies...
Let's take the "hardcore" islam countries (which you may define yourself :-) )into account, and check womens's real everyday life - wow!
the womens liberty granted by islam "more than any other society" appears as a REAL NASTY joke if i look at the rough restriction of rights from clothing to talking to moving in public put on the muslim females EVEN in second generation immigrants in berlin, germany, where we have a strong turkish population.
So - are we talking about the book or about society reality ? are the repressive countries non-quran-muslim ?
that is an interesting point to discuss, and that might bring about an interesting public discussion in the global muslim nations' community.
and ... by the way... the word of god written on paper,
hello people, !!
how about sensing it in your heart and going towards a personal encounter with God?
there is not just ONE true-true religion, that is old-school NONSENSE.
if you need difefrent IDEA input and INSPIRATION for that, I recommend exploring cultures that have different (and non-dualistic) approaches and are LESS MESSED UP power societies, with gender restrictions etc (that have less weight on "POWER" in their religion) leads you there.
Wish you a good journey!
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Eric Nicolas Schneider
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Re: Sample Of Islamic Sharia (a Must Read)
December 13, 2003 - 01:57 AM
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I do like that long statement two posts ahead.
It shows beautifully,
that the different prophets all telling the message of god in various parts of the world FIT THEIR TIMES and SOCIETY'S MENTAL HORIZONS.
As humanity has progressed with ups and downs to at least the DESIRABLE agreement on human rights, we find ourselves in a NEW time, with new society compatible value systems, and also demands on ourselves to adjust our understanding of the universe and humanity, and readjust our relations between individuals and collectives.
This DEVELOPMENT of ideas has happened ever since, as anybody will agree from indigenous people to non-dualist religions, to the dualist religions of the jews, christians, then muslim.
The latter development is granted by muslims, too, as PRE-stages.
YET: does anybody want to tell me HUMANITY's menatal horiozon development has stopped or ought to have stopped since then ? that we should just have continued as 1000 years ago for the next 100,000 years ? that just will not work.
so: adjust your worldview and mental horizons. by the way,: the further we got away from the childrenof nature, the further it took us from individual freedom (most of the tribal peoples' languages have no grammatical form for the "imperative", to tell others how to behave and to rule them),
and towards planetary destruction. It does not appear to me that religions are the major hope for saving the world from destruction. The good thing is: e.g. many young christians are shairng the spirit of LIVING THE POSITIVE VALUES, in rel life : walk your talk !
and those values are the same 12 in all cultures, religions etc. (see: www.livingvalues.net (UNESCO supported)).
and put yourself in the position looking at people trashing their wives, and screaming for war ... "what would mohammed, jesus, buddha say and DO ?"
it's easy.
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M.F.Mughal
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Re: Sample Of Islamic Sharia (a Must Read)
December 13, 2003 - 02:07 AM
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Please read the quran and see how many verses it contains about war on nonmuslims. That should in itself indicate to you the peaceful and loving nature of islam. For you information sura 9 is 2nd last in revelational sequence which abrogates all the quranic commandments before it which go against it. See 60/8 (revelation no 91)in contrast with 58/21 (rev no 105), 9/23 (rev no 113) etc etc.
I would now invite your good selves to visit the link I provided on muslims and islamic faithweb. com.
That will clearly show you what the quran teaches about how women should be treated. The more people try to live by the quran and the hadith the more they are like taleban, saudi arabia, iran and pakistan etc etc.......
I am sure that none of you have read the quran, the hadith or the fiqh.
You will get scriptural on line translations on my web page
http://www.religionandsecularism3.gq.nu/favorite_links.html
here is a sample of ahadith about stoning people to death. Ahadith are reports about the prophet's words and deeds. Bukhari is the most authentic source of islam after the quran, as far as sunnies are concerned. This is what islam actually teaches.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/082.sbt.html
Volume 8, Book 82, Number 803:
Narrated Ash-Sha'bi:
from 'Ali when the latter stoned a lady to death on a Friday. 'Ali said, "I have stoned her according to the tradition of Allah's Apostle."
Volume 8, Book 82, Number 804:
Narrated Ash Shaibani:
I asked 'Abdullah bin Abi Aufa, 'Did Allah's Apostle carry out the Rajam penalty ( i.e., stoning to death)?' He said, "Yes." I said, "Before the revelation of Surat-ar-Nur or after it?" He replied, "I don't Know."
Volume 8, Book 82, Number 805:
Narrated Jabir bin Abdullah Al-Ansari:
A man from the tribe of Bani Aslam came to Allah's Apostle and Informed him that he had committed illegal sexual intercourse and bore witness four times against himself. Allah's Apostle ordered him to be stoned to death as he was a married Person.
Volume 8, Book 82, Number 806:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
A man came to Allah's Apostle while he was in the mosque, and he called him, saying, "O Allah's Apostle! I have committed illegal sexual intercourse.'" The Prophet turned his face to the other side, but that man repeated his statement four times, and after he bore witness against himself four times, the Prophet called him, saying, "Are you mad?" The man said, "No." The Prophet said, "Are you married?" The man said, "Yes." Then the Prophet said, 'Take him away and stone him to death." Jabir bin 'Abdullah said: I was among the ones who participated in stoning him and we stoned him at the Musalla. When the stones troubled him, he fled, but we over took him at Al-Harra and stoned him to death.
Volume 8, Book 82, Number 807:
Narrated 'Aisha:
Sa'd bin Abi Waqqas and 'Abd bin Zam'a quarrelled with each other (regarding a child). The Prophet said, "The boy is for you, O 'Abd bin Zam'a, for the boy is for (the owner) of the bed. O Sauda ! Screen yourself from the boy." The sub-narrator, Al-Laith added (that the Prophet also said), "And the stone is for the person who commits an illegal sexual intercourse."
Volume 8, Book 82, Number 808:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, "The boy is for (the owner of) the bed and the stone is for the person who commits illegal sexual intercourse.'
Volume 8, Book 82, Number 809:
Narrated Ibn 'Umar:
A Jew and a Jewess were brought to Allah's Apostle on a charge of committing an illegal sexual intercourse. The Prophet asked them. "What is the legal punishment (for this sin) in your Book (Torah)?" They replied, "Our priests have innovated the punishment of blackening the faces with charcoal and Tajbiya." 'Abdullah bin Salam said, "O Allah's Apostle, tell them to bring the Torah." The Torah was brought, and then one of the Jews put his hand over the Divine Verse of the Rajam (stoning to death) and started reading what preceded and what followed it. On that, Ibn Salam said to the Jew, "Lift up your hand." Behold! The Divine Verse of the Rajam was under his hand. So Allah's Apostle ordered that the two (sinners) be stoned to death, and so they were stoned. Ibn 'Umar added: So both of them were stoned at the Balat and I saw the Jew sheltering the Jewess.
Volume 8, Book 82, Number 810:
Narrated Jabir:
A man from the tribe of Aslam came to the Prophet and confessed that he had committed an illegal sexual intercourse. The Prophet turned his face away from him till the man bore witness against himself four times. The Prophet said to him, "Are you mad?" He said "No." He said, "Are you married?" He said, "Yes." Then the Prophet ordered that he be stoned to death, and he was stoned to death at the Musalla. When the stones troubled him, he fled, but he was caught and was stoned till he died. The Prophet spoke well of him and offered his funeral prayer.
Volume 8, Book 82, Number 813:
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:
When Ma'iz bin Malik came to the Prophet (in order to confess), the Prophet said to him, "Probably you have only kissed (the lady), or winked, or looked at her?" He said, "No, O Allah's Apostle!" The Prophet said, using no euphemism, "Did you have sexual intercourse with her?" The narrator added: At that, (i.e. after his confession) the Prophet ordered that he be stoned (to death).
Volume 8, Book 82, Number 814:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
A man from among the people, came to Allah's Apostle while Allah's Apostle was sitting in the mosque, and addressed him, saying, "O Allah's Apostle! I have committed an illegal sexual intercourse." The Prophet turned his face away from him. The man came to that side to which the Prophet had turned his face, and said, "O Allah's Apostle! I have committed an illegal intercourse." The Prophet turned his face to the other side, and the man came to that side, and when he confessed four times, the Prophet called him and said, "Are you mad?" He said, "No, O Allah's Apostle!" The Prophet said, "Are you married?" He said, "Yes, O Allah's Apostle." The Prophet said (to the people), "Take him away and stone him to death." Ibn Shihab added, "I was told by one who heard Jabir, that Jabir said, 'I was among those who stoned the man, and we stoned him at the Musalla ('Id praying Place), and when the stones troubled him, he jumped quickly and ran away, but we overtook him at Al-Harra and stoned him to death (there).' "
Volume 8, Book 82, Number 815:
Narrated Abu Huraira and Zaid bin Khalid:
While we were with the Prophet , a man stood up and said (to the Prophet ), "I beseech you by Allah, that you should judge us according to Allah's Laws." Then the man's opponent who was wiser than him, got up saying (to Allah's Apostle) "Judge us according to Allah's Law and kindly allow me (to speak)." The Prophet said, "'Speak." He said, "My son was a laborer working for this man and he committed an illegal sexual intercourse with his wife, and I gave one-hundred sheep and a slave as a ransom for my son's sin. Then I asked a learned man about this case and he informed me that my son should receive one hundred lashes and be exiled for one year, and the man's wife should be stoned to death." The Prophet said, "By Him in Whose Hand my soul is, I will judge you according to the Laws of Allah. Your one-hundred sheep and the slave are to be returned to you, and your son has to receive one-hundred lashes and be exiled for one year. O Unais! Go to the wife of this man, and if she confesses, then stone her to death." Unais went to her and she confessed. He then stoned her to death.
Volume 8, Book 82, Number 816:
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:
'Umar said, "I am afraid that after a long time has passed, people may say, "We do not find the Verses of the Rajam (stoning to death) in the Holy Book," and consequently they may go astray by leaving an obligation that Allah has revealed. Lo! I confirm that the penalty of Rajam be inflicted on him who commits illegal sexual intercourse, if he is already married and the crime is proved by witnesses or pregnancy or confession." Sufyan added, "I have memorized this narration in this way." 'Umar added, "Surely Allah's Apostle carried out the penalty of Rajam, and so did we after him."
Volume 8, Book 82, Number 817:
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: (note; here I am only using part of relevant part of hadith)
Allah sent Muhammad with the Truth and revealed the Holy Book to him, and among what Allah revealed, was the Verse of the Rajam (the stoning of married person (male & female) who commits illegal sexual intercourse, and we did recite this Verse and understood and memorized it. Allah's Apostle did carry out the punishment of stoning and so did we after him.
I am afraid that after a long time has passed, somebody will say, 'By Allah, we do not find the Verse of the Rajam in Allah's Book,' and thus they will go astray by leaving an obligation which Allah has revealed. And the punishment of the Rajam is to be inflicted to any married person (male & female), who commits illegal sexual intercourse, if the required evidence is available or there is conception or confession.
Volume 8, Book 82, Number 824:
Narrated Ash-Shaibani:
I asked 'Abdullah bin Abi 'Aufa about the Rajam (stoning somebody to death for committing illegal sexual intercourse). He replied, "The Prophet carried out the penalty of Rajam," I asked, "Was that before or after the revelation of Surat-an-Nur?" He replied, "I do not know."
Volume 8, Book 82, Number 825:
Narrated Abdullah bin Umar:
The jews came to Allah's Apostle and mentioned to him that a man and a lady among them had committed illegal sexual intercourse. Allah's Apostle said to them, "What do you find in the Torah regarding the Rajam?" They replied, "We only disgrace and flog them with stripes." 'Abdullah bin Salam said to them, 'You have told a lie the penalty of Rajam is in the Torah.' They brought the Torah and opened it. One of them put his hand over the verse of the Rajam and read what was before and after it. Abdullah bin Salam said to him, "Lift up your hand." Where he lifted it there appeared the verse of the Rajam. So they said, "O Muhammad! He has said the truth, the verse of the Rajam is in it (Torah)." Then Allah's Apostle ordered that the two persons (guilty of illegal sexual intercourse) be stoned to death, and so they were stoned, and I saw the man bending over the woman so as to protect her from the stones.
Volume 8, Book 82, Number 826:
Narrated Abu Huraira and Zaid bin Khalid:
Two men had a dispute in the presence of Allah's Apostle. One of them said, "Judge us according to Allah's Laws." The other who was more wise said, "Yes, Allah's Apostle, judge us according to Allah's Laws and allow me to speak (first)" The Prophet said to him, 'Speak " He said, "My son was a laborer for this man, and he committed illegal sexual intercourse with his wife, and the people told me that my son should be stoned to death, but I have given one-hundred sheep and a slave girl as a ransom (expiation) for my son's sin. Then I asked the religious learned people (about It), and they told me that my son should he flogged one-hundred stripes and should be exiled for one year, and only the wife of this man should be stoned to death " Allah's Apostle said, "By Him in Whose Hand my soul is, I will judge you according to Allah's Laws: O man, as for your sheep and slave girl, they are to be returned to you." Then the Prophet had the man's son flogged one hundred stripes and exiled for one year, and ordered Unais Al-Aslami to go to the wife of the other man, and if she confessed, stone her to death. She confessed and was stoned to death.
Volume 8, Book 82, Number 842:
Narrated Abu Huraira and Zaid bin Khalid Al-Juhani:
A man came to the Prophet and said, "I beseech you to judge us according to Allah's Laws." Then his opponent who was wiser than he, got up and said, "He has spoken the truth. So judge us according to Allah's Laws and please allow me (to speak), O Allah's Apostle." The Prophet said, "Speak." He said, "My son was a laborer for the family of this man and he committed illegal sexual intercourse with his wife, and I gave one-hundred sheep and a slave as a ransom (for my son), but I asked the religious learned people (regarding this case), and they informed me that my son should be flogged one-hundred stripes, and be exiled for one year, and the wife of this man should be stoned (to death)."The Prophet said, "By Him in Whose Hand my soul is, I will Judge you (in this case) according to Allah's Laws. The one-hundred (sheep) and the slave shall be returned to you and your son shall be flogged one-hundred stripes and be exiled for one year. And O Unais! Go in the morning to the wife of this man and ask her, and if she confesses, stone her to death." She confessed and he stoned her to death.
Here are some hadith about prophet' marriage to ayesha when she was only 6 years old and he was 51 years old.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/reference.html
BUKHARI,
Volume 7, Book 62, Number 7:
Narrated Said bin Jubair:
Ibn 'Abbas asked me, "Are you married?" I replied, "No." He said, "Marry, for the best person of this (Muslim) nation (i.e., Muhammad) of all other Muslims, had the largest number of wives."
Volume 7, Book 62, Number 15:
Narrated 'Aisha:
Allah's Apostle said (to me), "You have been shown to me twice in (my) dreams. A man was carrying you in a silken cloth and said to me, 'This is your wife.' I uncovered it; and behold, it was you. I said to myself, 'If this dream is from Allah, He will cause it to come true.' "
Volume 7, Book 62, Number 18:
Narrated 'Ursa:
The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for 'Aisha's hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said "But I am your brother." The Prophet said, "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry."
Volume 7, Book 62, Number 57:
Narrated 'Aisha:
Allah's Apostle said (to me), "You were shown to me in a dream. An angel brought you to me, wrapped in a piece of silken cloth, and said to me, 'This is your wife.' I removed the piece of cloth from your face, and there you were. I said to myself. 'If it is from Allah, then it will surely be.' "
Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64:
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).
Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65:
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)'
Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88:
Narrated 'Ursa:
The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).
Volume 7, Book 62, Number 90:
Narrated Aisha:
When the Prophet married me, my mother came to me and made me enter the house (of the Prophet) and nothing surprised me but the coming of Allah's Apostle to me in the forenoon.
Volume 7, Book 62, Number 163:
Narrated 'Aisha:
The Prophet was screening me with his Rida' (garment covering the upper part of the body) while I was looking at the Ethiopians who were playing in the courtyard of the mosque. (I continued watching) till I was satisfied. So you may deduce from this event how a little girl (who has not reached the age of puberty) who is eager to enjoy amusement should be treated in this respect.
MUSLIM,
Book 008, Number 3309:
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine. She further said: We went to Medina and I had an attack of fever for a month, and my hair had come down to the earlobes. Umm Ruman (my mother) came to me and I was at that time on a swing along with my playmates. She called me loudly and I went to her and I did not know what she had wanted of me. She took hold of my hand and took me to the door, and I was saying: Ha, ha (as if I was gasping), until the agitation of my heart was over. She took me to a house, where had gathered the women of the Ansar. They all blessed me and wished me good luck and said: May you have share in good. She (my mother) entrusted me to them. They washed my head and embellished me and nothing frightened me. Allah's Messenger (, may peace be upon him) came there in the morning, and I was entrusted to him.
Book 008, Number 3310:
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.
Book 008, Number 3311:
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old.
Regards and all the best my dear lovely friends.
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Faddy
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Re: Sample Of Islamic Sharia (a Must Read)
December 13, 2003 - 06:23 AM
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Dear Mugal,
It is shameful on your part that being a Muslim you could not understand the lesson of Islam. You are really most unlucky on the earth. In fact you are not having the basics of Islam that means being obedient to God. I give you a free suggestion. Before giving a single comment think thrice. But how can you think neither you have brain nor heart.
Islam spreads the true love and care in the society and a true Muslim character always helps others irrespective caste, race and gender. There is discrimination in islam on any possible basis. The rights Islam has given to the woman are no where in any community or religion. Islam has documentation of all the rules and regulation for life. These rules and regulations are not made by a person. So there is no any possible biasness.
Just be rational in your thinking and you will find that it is the best religion on the earth.
May God give you wisdom to think
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Raymond M. Kristiansen
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Re: Sample Of Islamic Sharia (a Must Read)
December 13, 2003 - 09:20 AM
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to Mmughal:
ok, I understand that you are on a crusade against Islam, and that you have made this crusade a large reason for your living, in some way.
Like any other emotional person (myself included) you have the need to feel that your cause is right. That Islam is evil, is to you a Truth without question. Just like the truth which farhadali has that Islam is the Supreme Good, and that there is nothing wrong with Islam, or islamists at all.
From my point of view, it is sad to view that your Truth has become so Absolute to you that you do not see any moderation to it. Indeed, you say that there "are no moderate muslims". Personally I find that shocking, it is like saying that there are no moderate christians (and believe me, there ARE millions of extremists within Christiandom), or moderate Hindus. Or wait, you refer to Islam as a system where any person who criticizes the quran is dead. Is this true in all Muslim societies? Also outside Iran and Saudi Arabia? What about Egypt? Are anyone there within a majorly Muslim society dead if they dare to critizise the Quran?
To farhadali's message I can just say that well, you believe in your religion, and for you your religion is the Only Way. Indeed, you go so far as saying that "these rules and regulations are not made by a person. So there is no any possible biasness." Which rules and regulations do you refer to? The rule that if you do X, you must have a hand chopped of? Or be stoned to death?
The way I personally see it, Islam has a foundation of Truth, just like Judaism, Christianity, and all other religions. This foundation has been abused over and over by people with less than good intentions. (The Crusades of the Christians is something I will always be shameful for). Or rather, their intentions are perhaps good, according to their heart, but they do not SEE how the means they use for achieving these intentions are killing other people, thus going against the foundation of one's religion (which is, mostly, about peace and love among mankind).
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jesse adams
Joined: Dec 16, 2003
Posts: 73 (view all)
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Country: United States
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Re: Sample Of Islamic Sharia (a Must Read)
January 2, 2004 - 01:10 AM
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The direct quoting of any religous text will allow people who wish to attack a specific religion ammunition. Wars are fought over religous doctrines because of this sort of nonsense. If you look at the bible, similar texts can be found (consider Pulp Fictions most famous quote). This sort of intolerance is fanatacism of the worst kind
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