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gpjgoodwill-Olivia

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Re: Is Obama trying to destroy the economy?
Nov 4, 2009

i dont think so & he's a really great person i feel he not messing up it up
& hi im olivia
smile

Kabo Harold

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Re: Is Obama trying to destroy the economy?
Dec 15, 2009

It would be reckless of me to state that President Obama is trying to destroy the U.S economy. In all honesty, though he is trying to offset deflation by pumping liquidity into the market, his actions are going to have negative effects for the US economy in the long term. Free market capitalism works under theme of "creative destruction". In essence, businesses and countries undergo periods of cyclical booms and busts.

A recession/ depression should there be welcomed by countries as it allows the distortions and imbalances that occurred during the boom to be corrected. President Obama is not allowing the natural process of this boom-bust cycle to occur. As a result, the US dollar will be sacrificed, living standards in the US will decline and more economic bubbles will occur. When the economic bubbles pop, that will destroy the US economy, whilst the executives at Goldman Sachs utilize the golden parachutes.

This post was edited on: 2009-12-15 at 08:47 AM by: kaboharold

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Re: Is Obama trying to destroy the economy?
Jan 7, 2010

Your fact are totally unbeliveble are untruth, and false.

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jodevizes

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Re: Is Obama trying to destroy the economy?
Jan 10, 2010

I think you will find that most of the Western countries that have been burned in this credit crunch are busy propping up their banks and pumping cash into the economy.

These are one set of scared weasels. Trouble is the banks are just going to do the same again, safe in the knowledge that now they know for sure that the government is going to prop them all up.

Bonus city here we come......
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------
Jo Devizes knows a womens website that is rather good.

jodevizes PROFILE

Fale Andrew Lesa

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Re: Is Obama trying to destroy the economy?
Jan 12, 2010

You cite a fox news article to support your assertion that Obama is trying to destroy America's economy?

First things first:

Most expert economists would confidently say that the economy was heading down-stream before Obama was even nominated as the democratic nominee in the race for presidency.
Its no hidden fact that the former administration's reckless spending policies as a result of Bill Clinton's economic stimulus and reduced national debt, toppled by the housing market collapse and national off-shoring of businesses and employment opportunities ultimately resulted in the economic halt of growth, productivity, economic stability, etc.

Secondly:

This article coming from Fox news, you don't expert this to be taken seriously do you?

Every American on earth knows that Fox news recklessly leans to the right wing of the spectrum and does not hesitate to provide one-sided commentary and media coverage.

And lastly,

How on earth does Obama and Obama alone destroy an economy that stretches as far back as 1776?
Last time I checked the American government is not structured around a dictatorship, Obama as president does not have the power or the political freedom to destroy the economy alone - not without the assistance from congress and other American officials.

Kabo Harold

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Re: Is Obama trying to destroy the economy?
Jan 12, 2010

Mr Fale Lesa

I am pleased to meet your acquaintance. However, it is displeasing that you fail to cite Obama's economic policy to the present predicament currently plaguing thew global market. I agree with you on your assertion that some economists (Austrian economists) were well aware of the oncoming crisis before Obama was elected. In 2000, after the dot com bubble burst America went through a mild recession that was nullified by the US Federal Reserve cutting interest rates and President Bush increasing public spending. The Fed insidiously continued its low rate policy after the 9/11 attacks and subsequently helped to inflate huge asset bubbles in the US real estate and stock market from 2002-2007. In late 2007, the credit bubble burst as consumers and other market participants started deleveraging on consumption, credit and lending. All this did NOT occur during Obama's Presidency.

Mr Lesa, any healthy economy needs a way to correct error and remove waste. Nature has extinction, the economy has loss, bankruptcy and liquidation. Interfering in this process lengthens feed back loops. Error and waste are allowed to accumulate and you ultimately get a massive collapse. The collapse in banking credit, global equity markets and trade in 2008 had to lead to a painful but swift depression. Then along came good'ole President Obama... Instead of allowing the bear market to run its full course and economic imbalances to correct themselves, Obama chose to listen to the cabal of Keynesian scoundrels at the Federal Reserve and US Treasury. He singlehandedly bailed out the mortgage lenders, the auto industry, the banks and his pals at Wall Street in what can only be dubbed as economic masturbation.

This post was edited on: 2010-01-12 at 12:44 PM by: kaboharold

This post was edited on: 2010-01-12 at 12:49 PM by: kaboharold

Kabo Harold

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Re: Is Obama trying to destroy the economy?
Jan 12, 2010

Perhaps what is more damaging about President Obama is his belief that government intervention and regulation will somehow lead to economic growth and prosperity. If incessant intervention by the Federal Reserve and US government caused the global financial crisis, how can more intervention and regulation be the cure?? If an easy credit policy adopted by the Fed led to mass speculation and chaos in the financial markets, how can more consumer credit and easy money be the cure?? Mr Obama has deviated the US economy from a capitalistic economic model to a more socialistic model. Judging by the protectionist policies he has placed on Chinese tires, I have come to the conclusion that he does not believe in the "magic" of the free market. Mr Lesa, you cannot spend your way out of a recession! You cannot regulate the economy into oblivion and expect it to function! You cannot cannot tax people and businesses to the point of near slavery and expect them to continue producing! Moreover, you cannot create an abundance of money out of thin air without destroying the underlying fiat currency. I am not an American but if the President of Botswana were to make the same inimical policies regarding capitalism and trade that President Obama is making,I would be pretty pissed off to say the least.

The biggest advantage that the US economy has over other countries is that the US economy is the most dynamic economy in the history of mankind. The Romans, Greeks, Ottoman and Mongol Empires did not come close in achieving the creativity and innovation that has driven Uncle Sam since 1776. However, the success of the US economy in the long term will come from an ardent belief and adoption of free market capitalism. Socialism is a fundamentally flawed economic model because of its lack of market prices. When government starts to collude with financial institutions that will lead to a recipe of disaster. After all was it not Thomas Jefferson who once said " I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs"... I'm sure your fore fathers are spinning in their graves in sheer anger and disbelief at the shenanigans of Wall Street and Washington. Warm regards. Cheers!

Fale Andrew Lesa

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Re: Is Obama trying to destroy the economy?
Jan 12, 2010

kabo harold

I very much acknowledge your prompt response and value the economic substance that you have provided.
From here I should acknowledge that as a law student and a former high school student passionate about the social sciences, my individual account of the economical affairs facing America and the globe are at best limited to what I read. Instead, I choose to familiarize myself with official documents/articles from leading American economists, American officials and American organizations that specialize in the economy. I always ensure that there is a bipartisan approach to what I read on the economy and that international accounts are also considered ethically.

Now you ultimately argue that Obama's economy policies and the direction that this particular administration has taken around the economy is recklessly flawed.
You may well be accurate here but lets draw some facts before we allow ourselves to clutch at broken straws:

This is what Obama walked into on his first official working day as President of the United States and the largest and best performing economy the world has ever witnessed:

a $1.3 trillion deficit, two costly wars, rising unemployment and unprecedented crises in our banking system.

The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act was one of Obama's initial actions towards the state and condition of the American economy - The plan will save or create 3.5 million new jobs, make critical investments in our infrastructure and give 95 percent of working Americans a tax cut.

We all know that the bulk of Bush's tax cuts were centralized around the top brackets of American tax payers, this policy centralizes on the opposite - giving much of the middle/low class a tax break that many believe they deserve.
Its a well known fact that the low/middle income earners any where in the world are more likely to spend this extra cash almost immediately - the top bracket of America will not.

What pumps economic stimulation into the economy the fastest?

Spending.

I've taken this from Obama's official website:

"A new housing program has stabilized the market, preventing more foreclosures and helping millions more re-finance at historically low mortgage rates. The Administration is also moving forward with its plans to get credit flowing again to businesses and families, and to reform our regulatory system so we have a set of 21st century rules to match 21st century financial markets."

One of the biggest components of America's recession was the collapse of the housing market - most economists would argue that the policy above and his intentions in this area are most ideal to reinvent the housing market and to re implement policies that ensure a crash like this will never be repeated again.

Another component of Obama's economy policy:

"By making bold and wise investments in healthcare, energy and education, and restoring fiscal accountability to government spending, we will cut costs for American families and businesses, create good jobs that can’t be shipped overseas, give our children the education they need to be competitive in the global marketplace and leave our grandchildren a legacy they can be proud to inherit."

This is why a number of Americans vested their trust and their vote in Obama.
He promised immediate investment in health care, education, energy, social security, employment, etc - the homeland should always take presidency in a global market brought on through the modernization of capitalism and its predecessor, the movement of globalization and industrialization.

These are very much the policies under a recession such as this that other economies have followed: most notably China, Russia, India, Britain, Japan, etc.

This post was edited on: 2010-01-12 at 06:20 PM by: FaleAndrewLesa

This post was edited on: 2010-01-12 at 06:20 PM by: FaleAndrewLesa

Fale Andrew Lesa

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Re: Is Obama trying to destroy the economy?
Jan 12, 2010

Lets have a look at an interesting economic report (Bush's final) written and published by the man himself George W Bush:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/16/bush-economy-will-improve_n_158554.html

He quotes the Obama administration has "laid the groundwork for a return to economic growth and job creation".

Bush's statement came at the beginning of the annual report of the White House Council of Economic Advisers.
Those advisers predicted "a strong economic recovery early in the term of the next administration."

Kabo Harold

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Re: Is Obama trying to destroy the economy?
Jan 13, 2010

Mr Lesa

It is becoming glaringly clear that youthful exuberance is clouding your judgment regarding US fiscal and monetary policy. You mentioned that " This is what Obama walked into on his first official working day as President of the United States and the largest and best performing economy the world has ever witnessed:

a $1.3 trillion deficit, two costly wars, rising unemployment and unprecedented crises in our banking system."

Wow! President Obama certainly had a lot on his plate. Lets look at how he responded to such herculean challenges. The huge government bailouts and fiscal stimulus he endorsed have led to a ballooning budget deficit of $1.58 trillion. If Mr Obama has it his way, there might be more stimulus coming in Q4 2010. On hindsight, one may say, President Obama is mortgaging your future. A borrow, spend and tax policy wont lead to robust economic growth. The two costly wars he inherited might be extended into Iran and Yemen. Unemployment continues to increase on a monthly basis. U6 data points to 15.6% unemployment and the banking system is still teetering on the brink of collapse. Banks that were "too big to fail" 12 months ago are even more bigger today. Wall Street is back to its legendary system of high risks, high rewards. Speculation is in fashion again. To this day, I eagerly await financial reform.

The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act is just another socialist venture thats going to prove to be a waste of tax payers money in the coming years. I've seen similar Bills being passed by African leaders. They never work out!! Economic growth should be driven by private sector development. The US economy should grow on the creativity and innovation of its entrepreneurs. At present, public sector spending is a big driver of economic activity in the US. If you remove the fiscal and monetary stimulus, we'd see deflationary pressures overwhelming the market, subsequently leading to a depression. Mr Lesa, it is very unhealthy to put so much trust in government economists and central bankers. I happen to be a financial analyst and scholar of the Austrian School of economics. I've been observing the US equity markets for some years now. Allow me to enlighten you on my observations. On May 2007, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke said the crisis in sub-prime mortgages would be contained. The system collapsed a few months after he made the comment. Former Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson told Americans on May 2008 that they were "closer to the end of the financial turmoil than the beginning." Lehman Brothers filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy 4 months after he made the comment. Not only do I think Mr Bernanke is highly incompetent in executing his duties as Fed Chairman, but I also think he's a diabolical liar.

Kabo Harold

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Re: Is Obama trying to destroy the economy?
Jan 13, 2010

One thing I have learnt during the global financial crisis is to never trust a government economist and central banker. The sad reality is that President Obama was elected on a political ticket of change and hope. From where I'm sitting, theres been no change in the US financial system! No change in his key economic advisory team! No change in limiting government intervention in the economy! No change in his plans to limit Americans from their unsustainable spending patterns! In fact, he's encouraging you guys to go out and spend, borrow and spend again.

It is no secret that the engine that drives the US economy is the American shopper. Consumer spending makes up 70% of U.S GDP. It is no secret either that consumer spending is way down. But perhaps even more disturbing is that consumer spending- the backbone of the boom years in America’s economic growth is nothing more than an illusion. This is primarily because the boom years were not based on real wage increases as you would expect, but rather economic growth was based on an unsustainable credit expansion policy adopted by former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan and other central planners as I mentioned earlier. America was literally growing its economy on a mountain of debt. Wall Street and Main street helped to inflate the biggest asset bubble in modern day history. When wild spending and borrowing caused the bubble, the resulting anti bubble will be marked by exaggerated thrift, debt cancellation and pessimism. This is exactly what President Obama does not get get! He can try stimulating the economy with huge stimulus packages, but if ordinary Americans are not spending, and are living in a cascade of debt, it is impossible to forecast an economic recovery. Do not be fooled by the rally in stocks. Let me take this time to remind you Mr Lesa that "The lights were on when the Titanic went down"... The best thing Obama can do for Americans is to allow them to start saving again and rebuild their balance sheets, instead of enticing them with willy nilly programs like Cash for Clunkers and Cash for Houses. Many thanks, Cheers!!

Fale Andrew Lesa

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Re: Is Obama trying to destroy the economy?
Jan 13, 2010

Kabo Harold,

I'm quite surprised that you highlighted age as reasoning behind my somewhat "distorted" picture of the American economy, especially after I specifically told you that my overall knowledge of economics on the grand scale was bleak.

I also question the legitimacy/authenticity of your argument now that you have openly declared your opposition to socialism in the economy and its failed economic objectives.
If there is one thing I request during discussions such as this, it would be the bipartisan approach to political discussion. As a centralist on the spectrum I do not hesitate to point out the right and wrongs of both left and right - you on the other hand are sitting in another ship all together, a ship of partisanship and one-eyed perspectives.

As a history fan I'm surprised you didn't acknowledge the well-known fact that the American government has been a leading investor in the economy since 1913 and the establishment of the Federal Reserve System. From there we have witnessed remarkable expansions between the government and its relations with the economy from both left, right and centre administrations.

I doubt that Obama's economic policy differs much from former administrations either. The Economic Stimulus Act of 2008, pioneered by George W Bush to the tune of $152 billion dollars in bail out was his response to the recession for example.
George W Bush's economic philosophy may have been to de-emphasize the role of government in the private sector but you need to acknowledge that his overseeing of the subprime mortgage crisis was very much poor and that national debt under his administration rose significantly as a result of poor economic management.
Historically, America tends to spend much more than it actually earns or owns and I fail to see how Obama's administration should bear the full brunt of your criticisms.
Yes, he did champion change and new direction in his presidential campaign but you should know very well that Obama is not a man of economics. Obama was a man of law and order, equality in social justice and race-relations and an expert on international relations and current affairs. His economic advisers are the experts in the economy and they are the officials that give Obama the details and even the solutions.
I've said continuously now that Obama alone can not destroy the strength and the might of the American economy and you have failed to acknowledge this. It has been the largest economy since the mid 1800's and remains today as the world's most recognized in performance, structure and ability.

Lets look at US Consumer spending, an issue that you foolishly believe Obama has recklessly ignored:

http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/economy-and-business/23dec09-US-Consumer-Spending-Rises-7998950 7.html

The Commerce Department says a $16 billion rise in wages and salaries translated into a point-four percent boost in incomes. That, in turn, helped propel spending, which rose .5 percent in November.

"When we look at all the indicators, we think that consumers are in a much better place [financially] than they were a year ago, and these sorts of numbers confirm that," says PNC Financial Services Group senior economist Craig Thomas.

"Fueling that optimism are signs that double-digit unemployment in the United States will recede in coming months. A survey of U.S. employers shows that 20 percent expect to hire full-time workers next year, up from 14 percent in 2009. Unemployment reached a high of 10.2 percent in October and currently stands at an even 10 percent."

Most economists predict a lackluster U.S. economic recovery in 2010. But Jim O'Sullivan, chief economist at MF Global financial firm, says current data point to better times ahead.

http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/Upbeat-US-Economic-Data-Reported-80291027.html

This post was edited on: 2010-01-13 at 06:47 PM by: FaleAndrewLesa

Kabo Harold

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Re: Is Obama trying to destroy the economy?
Jan 15, 2010

Mr Lesa

I apologies for the late response. I was overloaded with engagements yesterday. I detect undertones of anger in you post. I sincerely hope you did not take offense to the youthful exuberance remark I made about you. Mr Lesa, my passionate advocacy for free market capitalism and Austrian Economics is an embodiment of my own youthful exuberance. Allow me to elucidate my admiration for your sense of purpose and conviction. When I was 19 years old, the only thing on my mind was Tequila, voluptuous women and Saturday nights... I am convinced that you are man who lives by a different creed and for that I salute you.

With that said, let me take this time to correct and rectify the misconceptions you have eloquently stated. Mr Lesa, I am rather perturbed by your lack of in depth analysis of history and economic phenomena. You have correctly stated that the Federal Reserve is a product of government intrusion into the market, which was formed in 1913 to guard against financial collapse. What you did not mention is that the USA has had 18 recessions since 1913 which were all instigated by the US Federal Reserve's fiscal and monetary policies. The gist of my argument is that the money supply should be controlled by the market and not an entity thats headed by a politically appointed economist. The world would be much better without central banks! Government expansion on the other hand has always led to slow growth, bureaucracy and a decline of innovation from the private sector. Moreover, you mentioned that:

I doubt that Obama's economic policy differs much from former administrations either. The Economic Stimulus Act of 2008, pioneered by George W Bush to the tune of $152 billion dollars in bail out was his response to the recession for example. George W Bush's economic philosophy may have been to de-emphasize the role of government in the private sector but you need to acknowledge that his overseeing of the subprime mortgage crisis was very much poor and that national debt under his administration rose significantly as a result of poor economic management. Historically, America tends to spend much more than it actually earns or owns and I fail to see how Obama's administration should bear the full brunt of your criticisms.

First and foremost, there is a huge difference between President Obama and good'ol Ronald Reagan. There is an even bigger difference between economic growth fostered by socialistic policies and capitalistic policies. Both Administrations were as different as night and day. Please take note that President Bush only asked for the $142 billion after the collapse of Lehman. He initially wanted to allow the banks and credit companies to fail but took a U- turn after consulting Barack Obama and John McCain's economic teams. Mr Lesa, the crash happened during the Presidential election hence it was up to the incoming President to manage the crisis. Bush allowed Lehman Brothers to fail!! I give him props for that. All the other bailouts and fiscal stimulus packages were rightfully poor management decisions. He should have allowed all of them to fail!

Kabo Harold

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Re: Is Obama trying to destroy the economy?
Jan 15, 2010

What is utterly distasteful Mr Lesa is your feeble attempt to distort the truth about Americas spending patterns. Firstly, I agree with you that the Yanks have historically been big spenders. However, before the dot com crash in 2000, they were spending money that they actually earned through real wages. After 2001, Americans started revving up consumer credit compliments of the US Federal Reserve. Thus to not make any distinction between consumption based on real wages and consumption based on credit expansion is glaringly misleading. President Obama is placing Band Aids and Bubble gum on structural problems that need reform. As a young law student I can understand your relentless defense for Obama. He too as you pointed out is a trained lawyer. On the night Obama was elected, I personally wept with tears of joy. Today my tear ducts are plagued by tears of discontent. President Barrack H Obama is the poster boy of fiscal irresponsibility!! I get the impression that you assume that since Obama is not an economist, he cannot be held accountable for the poor economic decisions that he's made. Nonsense!! The American people look upon him for leadership. Global investors look upon him for market stability and an unwavering sound money policy that protects the integrity of the US Dollar...

The myopic economists and financial analysts that you've quoted did not have the foresight to predict the biggest financial crisis since the Great Depression. Do you now expect them to predict a recovery? If a blind man runs his car down a cliff, would you confidently let him lead you to safety?? Even Stevie Wonder can clearly see through the lies and corporate innuendo being propagated by Wall Street and Washington... These blind bats have hoodwinked the market for far too long. Good my friend...

This post was edited on: 2010-01-15 at 08:02 AM by: kaboharold

This post was edited on: 2010-01-15 at 08:07 AM by: kaboharold