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redmamba
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Towards a better existence
August 31, 2009 - 09:50 AM
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There have been ages and schools of thought. From the classical ages, so called scholastic ages, medieval, mordern, contemporary, neo-classical, medieval etc
Now we are in an age; some call it digital, information age, dot com bla bla, even "Bolt Age".
How come humankind remains a confused lot? How come we seem not any better than our grand fathers? With all the available data or information at the disposal of mankind, how come we have not made sense of survival in this world?
I am thinking, we need some sort of universal thinking; education style, a way of correlating all available information and data such that it becomes one body of knowledge that can guide and inform each person's decision or thought processes.
Is this dreaming too much; thinking too far? Let me know what you think!
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Me
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Re: Towards a better existence
August 31, 2009 - 03:06 PM
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Maybe we don't want to be "perfect"...I guess at the end of the day we wan't to be able to say "I'm only human". Do you wan't to be all knowing and wise? (remember it comes with a great responsability)
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redmamba
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Re: Towards a better existence
September 2, 2009 - 05:31 AM
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Hi S.African Friend, I understand your concerns; perfectionism is not the answer. However, seeking perfection when we are too far from perfect is not that bad, is it?
Secondly, seeking improvement, the highest possible improvement as per given circumstances is not and should not be confused for perfectionism.
Human condition or nature demands that we seek to better. If by the kind of "understanding", I am speculating around, all humanity should live better then why not?
Are there basic principles that all men and women should hold as true about God, the universe, the earth, other people and self? Would, there being of such and teaching of such to all mankind help make the world more habitable and sustaining for all?
Do a people have belief systems full of contradictions. Would the Ironing out of the contradictions be good for the a people and mankind in general?
Let us think along those line; maybe we could just find a way towards "better existence for all in this world".
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Me
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Re: Towards a better existence
September 2, 2009 - 02:23 PM
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True, very true...we all want to be better off, but. If we cannot come to terms about small things like, which soccer player is the best and who should govern the country and how, do you think we even have a remote chance to unite our, even basic, principles concerning God and other people?
Even within the smallest unit in a country's economy, the family, there are often different views that lead to conflict.
Lets assume we have overcome the above, then how do we go about determening commom grounds in basic principles? Education perhaps?
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redmamba
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Re: Towards a better existence
September 5, 2009 - 05:15 AM
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Hi John! I like how realistic you try to be. However, realistic here is more in terms of "pessimistic view on what is"
You write and say "If we cannot come to terms about small things like, which soccer player is the best and who should govern the country and how, do you think we even have a remote chance to unite our, even basic, principles concerning God and other people?"
You are very right that people have different views. I like the ending of your post. Somehow you believe in the possibility of establishing fundamental principles that can be acceptable and guide mankind as a whole.
Will this be through education? and truly that is the avenue. however before we think of a way to disseminate, we have to first establish these principle or self evident truths or universals. People may understand God differently. however, a closer inspection reveals that difference lies in what they were taught and not what they have experienced or what they can verify.
Therefore, cleaning out beliefs or gleaning basic principles can help religious leaders realize the points of departure in their beliefs. then the tricky thing would be to ask " how did the point of departure come about?" what socio-economic factors influenced the departure? What beliefs or experiences informed the departure? How can we verify the authenticity of given claims in our days?
There my brother: we shall have started.
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Me
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Re: Towards a better existence
September 5, 2009 - 03:05 PM
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Hei.
Okay then, lets start in the beginning. I grew up in Christian home, my dad is a preacher and a teacher in the week. He taught me what he understands God should be to me and the Christian community around me added to that. I inevitably take the Christian perspective of God and disregarded most other religions in my childhood. I recently looked into other religions but the Christian view has priority. How do I find common ground with say a Muslim?
I do not count the other kinds of Christianity because we are, I assume, partly in the same thought.
What religion are you?
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redmamba
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Re: Towards a better existence
September 8, 2009 - 01:37 AM
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John, yeah, that is the beginning. It all started in the family: from childhood we were taught certain tenets. A Muslim was taught that Mohamed is the only Prophet while Christians are taught that Jesus is the only way. No body goes to the father except through Jesus, Mohamed the Prophet.
However, there were others who also taught. Buddha had lessons; the Buddhists have their Vedas. Our African ancestors also had their prophets; and they also taught. They told their people "unless you follow me, do what I say; fire from beyond will consume you."
Christians say Jesus is God; in what sense, very controversial! The Muslims say Mohamed is second to God; the veracity of those claims, we have to rethink. Buddha taught and so did our African teachers of old. There is a least common multiple in all their teachings. Thinking about all with truth, which is only possible via impartiality or objectivity, as the only desire and goal, we can establish basic principles that all mankind irrespective of childhood, upbringing, race or class can hold as true and self evident.
As for what religion I am; I should be a christian. My mum and dad were Roman Catholics by baptism; by default I also got baptized as an RC member. However my curiosity and Inquisitiveness has led me far and wide. That is why, these days, I like to tell people that I AM A FOLLOWER OF THE WAY; THE WAY OF TRUTH, GOODNESS, BEAUTY AND DILIGENCE.
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abbarighton
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Re: Towards a better existence
September 10, 2009 - 01:38 PM
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The word “age” is misused a lot, but the original meaning of the word refers to a very long period of about 2,166 years. That’s what the ancient Judaic, Hindu, Zoroastrian and Christians traditions held, which is why Jesus of Nazareth spoke of prophecy being fulfilled at the end of the age (or aeon) that he ushered in, rather than the “end of the world,” as it was mistranslated into English.
As the modern son of man tells us, the Greek word "Apocalypse" actually means to “uncover, reveal, or unveil” the truth that has been ignored, forgotten, misinterpreted and misunderstood, and the phrase apokalupsis eschaton literally means “revelation at the end of the aeon, or age.” For while symbolic prophecies depict more dramatic and dire events, literal real prophecies foretell the actual truth -- that the proud and militant hypocrites who divide humanity will be judged, exposed, rebuked and made contrite of spirit, and the humble, gentle, peaceful and “meek” majority of us shall inherit this earth, save it, and vastly improve it.
That is quoted from an article from message highlights linked to our site at The All Faiths Coalition for Peace and Freedom.
The son of man has delivered a message that is truly enlightening and inspiring. I highly recommend it, because I believe it can and will serve for the betterment of the human condition, for ALL human beings.
This post was edited on: 2011-05-28 at 08:48 PM by: abbarighton
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redmamba
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Re: Towards a better existence
September 11, 2009 - 04:37 AM
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Marisa, I like your drift. Mankind has to have the courage to acknowledge the truth and the truth alone. Vested interests, small fears; a deliberate choice 'to know not' is what ails this world. Given we do not want to face the truth; we create wild imaginations into a coherent body of knowledge that confuses generations. I love Jesus; His desire was to demystify what pharisees were burdening others with. That is the spirit to embrace towards a better existence. Unburden all from the yokes of conceited beliefs!!!!
Marisa, go on; share some more. I really like the info you were sharing. And where is John? What is your take?
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abbarighton
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Re: Towards a better existence
September 11, 2009 - 07:34 PM
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Thank you, Gideon. It's nice to see people with open minds and open hearts.
When you ask, "Where is John?" were you referring to the John who wrote the book of Revelation? Or were you talking about the John you are having a discussion with on this thread?
Let me know.
This post was edited on: 2009-09-11 at 07:37 PM by: abbarighton
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abbarighton
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Re: Towards a better existence
September 12, 2009 - 12:16 PM
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gideonwafula wrote:
Are there basic principles that all men and women should hold as true about God, the universe, the earth, other people and self? Would, there being of such and teaching of such to all mankind help make the world more habitable and sustaining for all? Do a people have belief systems full of contradictions. Would the Ironing out of the contradictions be good for the a people and mankind in general? Let us think along those line; maybe we could just find a way towards "better existence for all in this world".
Gideon, while I'm waiting for your clarification as to what "John" you asked about, I'll say I am very glad you asked the above questions.
If you read any of the pages of the web site of Joseph J. Adamson, whose work I have cited, you will see that his goal or mission is to suggest a world view that can bring about a better existence for all in this world.
For example, he points out that there are indeed eternal universal truths that are common to all religions. And paramount among those truths is that we should treat others as we would want to be treated if we were them.
That is the universal divine imperative, which just happens to be the golden rule that the prophet Jesus taught as well.
As Adamson states, all the greatest spiritual teachers have said basically the same thing. Thus Jews are supposed to be taught that we should not do to others what is hurtful to our self. The Muslims are supposed to be taught that no one is a true believer in Allah until he loves for all others what he loves for himself. Buddhists are taught that we should treat others as we treat our self. Hindus are taught that we should not do unto others anything that, which if it were done to us, would cause us pain. The Taoists are taught that we should regard our neighbor's gain as our own gain, and our neighbor's loss as our own loss. And, like Jesus, the founders of all true religions have also said that the search for the Divine and Holy should be not in the world, but within.
These teachings and values are at the very core of all genuine religions. They are compatible and consistent with all the other core universal spiritual values that Jesus and all other enlightened ones taught, about unconditional love, peace, freedom, honesty, humility, tolerance, forgiveness, compassion, charity, and pacifism.
That was quoted from True Spiritual Values.
This post was edited on: 2011-05-28 at 08:51 PM by: abbarighton
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abbarighton
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Re: Towards a better existence
September 12, 2009 - 12:29 PM
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JBK36 wrote:
I recently looked into other religions but the Christian view has priority. How do I find common ground with say a Muslim?
Karen Armstrong is a member of the Jesus Seminar and author of books like The Battle for God and The History of God. She has great knowledge of all three of the Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam). You may find her work beneficial.
You may also find the work of Joseph J. Adamson even more beneficial, because on his web page titled Divided Islam vs True Islam, he states:
Mohammed's Qur'an makes it very clear that Islam does not cancel out the messages of previous prophets, such as Abraham, Moses, Isaiah, David, Solomon, Enoch, and Jesus. In fact, the Qur'an commands Muslims to speak with great courtesy to Jews and Christians, because they "all believe in the same God" (29:46).
The Qur'an condemns violence and aggression, and holds that killing is always a great evil (2:190 and 2:217). Moreover, even though the Qur'an does permit a war of self-defense to fight foreign invasion and persecution, when the Prophet Muhammad had it written, one of his main purposes was precisely to stop indiscriminate killing!
The Qur'an states quite clearly that warfare is not the best way of dealing with difficulties and conflict. It says that the faithful should "argue (with unbelievers) in the most kindly manner, with wisdom and goodly exhortation."
It does say that, if attacked, the faithful may retaliate in an appropriate way that is proportionate to the wrong suffered. However, it also says that tolerance is far more advisable than retaliation. It says: "To bear yourselves with patience is far better for you, since God is with those who are patient in adversity." (16:125- 127) Indeed, it even says it is a meritorious act to "be charitable and to refrain from retaliation." (5:45) It is very similar to the teaching of Jesus, which advises us to "turn the other cheek" rather than retaliate by striking back.
The Qur'an also makes it clear that Mohammed's mission was not to create a new world religion, but to bring the religion of Abraham and Jesus to the Arabs, because they had no prophet before Mohammed, and they had no scriptures in their own language.
Furthermore, Mohammed made it very clear that he was not founding a religion to which everyone had to belong. According to the Qur'an, "There must be no coercion in matters of faith" (2:256), so coercion or the imposition of religion on unwilling people or all citizens is not permitted. If people disagree with a Muslim, he is to say: "Unto you your moral law, and unto me, mine." (109:6) In fact, in the Qur'an, as in Jewish and Christian scriptures, there is an emphatic prohibition of imposition, force and compulsion in religious matters.
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redmamba
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Re: Towards a better existence
September 13, 2009 - 01:27 PM
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Hi Abarighton, When I asked as to where John is; I was referring to John, my dear brother from South Africa with whom I was sharing in this forum. However, should John the writer of Revelation be of particular interest; I am more than interested to learn more.
Abbarighton, you capture the gist of my posts too well to warranty any further questions from me. Let me check out the websites you suggest and I will be back either with contend or utmost appreciation. CHAO. I like the way you have discussed Mohamed's thinking against Christianity. Let me ask this though; is there any movement or organization, around the world, concerned with our subject of discussion?
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abbarighton
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Re: Towards a better existence
September 13, 2009 - 02:06 PM
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gideonwafula wrote:
Is there any movement or organization, around the world, concerned with our subject of discussion?
Many spiritual teachers, especially since the 1960s, have been teaching universal truths that are common to all religions, to try to help people realize that we are a family of religions, races, nations and cultures, and all children of God, the Great Spirit-Parent of all.
The Jesus Seminar is an international group of religious scholars who have been working toward that goal, and you may be interested in the books of one of its members, Karen Armstrong, who wrote The History of God and The Battle for God.
Many moderate and progessive Jews, Christians and Muslims are also working toward interfaith dialogue, as are most Buddhists, Hindus, Sikhs, Bahais, and others who recognize our oneness and kinship with each other.
All people of true faith and understanding of divine will and intent are working toward peace. They understand that we should love one another, and treat all others as we would want to be treated if we were them.
I advocate the work of the modern son of man, who is also a singer of new songs, because he understands and explains why the "meek" (the humble, gentle, peaceful majority) cannot inherit the earth unless and until the proud and militant religious zealots are made contrite in the face of truth, and stop fighting for power over each other.
This post was edited on: 2011-05-28 at 08:53 PM by: abbarighton
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Me
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Re: Towards a better existence
September 14, 2009 - 02:29 PM
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Gideon, bro I have been away for a while. I must say Marissa your writing is rich (you are an expert), I must still read more from the site though...Anyway I think we have focused a lot (so far) on believers. What I need your take on is what about people who do not believe in a god. Where do they fit in this oneness? I believe that, because the human race is not perfect (we cannot control everything. for example our future) we, therefore, need to know that there is something, bigger and better, than us out there that we can trust to guide us in our shortcomings. So if we who have a religion can find peace in simple matters could we find common ground with those of no belief?
I also believe that all religions are based on peace principles, but there are the extreme people. In Christianity they call themselves the "Jesus freaks" i would think. As we all know there are the Muslim extremists as well. They would not accept to be one (even in small matters) with say a Jew. What would does globealisation have in store for them?
This post was edited on: 2009-09-14 at 02:36 PM by: JBK36
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