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Ibukun
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OBAMA , USA and the MUSLIM RECONCILIATION : Do you Believe this will Wwork?
June 5, 2009 - 06:35 AM
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President Obama’s move is of course a daring one preaching against Muslim stereotypes, religious extremism and canvassing for world peace all around. Though he has said we should forge ahead irrespective of the past. Do you think his move will work out considering the pains US has made these people to go through?
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ronald bodi
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Re: OBAMA , USA and the MUSLIM RECONCILIATION : Do you Believe this will Wwork?
June 5, 2009 - 08:23 AM
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yeah times have changed and so do pple.its no longer a muslim affair.maxists did ave their share too.
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Alex Rhoden
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Re: OBAMA , USA and the MUSLIM RECONCILIATION : Do you Believe this will Wwork?
June 5, 2009 - 12:05 PM
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Beautifully worded speeches and noble vague ideas of what could be are Obama's speciality, not specifics...Concrete foreign policy changes and real results are NOT likely to happen. I posted all of Obamas broken presidential campaign promises on the thread titled "Obama and the American dream". When our President does not keep his word to Americans, What makes us think he will keep his word to the Muslims?? I see Obama as another American puppet, controlled by AIPAC and Corporate / Banking interests. As of this moment, Obama is not looking after the interests of the people. He is like every other previous politician we have had. He promised us a change. He is the only one who has changed...for the worst !
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Youth Fed
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Re: OBAMA , USA and the MUSLIM RECONCILIATION : Do you Believe this will Wwork?
June 6, 2009 - 08:35 PM
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come on, give the man a break... Banking interests, eh? Can I ask you a question? Are you basing this assumption on a online video called Zeitgeist? Or maybe one called "The Obama Deception"?
Both those videos are completely bogus, filled will logical fallacies and conspiracy theories, and very shady 'evidence'.
I think he gave a great speech, and although I don't think there will be instant change, I think a gradual change is in the works.
Ely Loew
Social Media Team Director
Youth Federaiton for World Peace
www.youthfederation.org
Facebook: http://tinyurl.com/yfedfacebook
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prieten47
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Re: OBAMA , USA and the MUSLIM RECONCILIATION : Do you Believe this will Wwork?
June 8, 2009 - 02:32 AM
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Come on, Alex,
Give Obama a grace period for cryin' out loud. He inherited this financial catastrophe from the previous administration. The bailout was well underway before Obama took office. I took a look at your list of "broken" promises. There are a lot of "breaking's" in there. You complain one of the promises he has broken is that he hasn't sat down with dictators without preconditions. Which dictators do you have a soft spot for? How do you know he won't in the future?
As a Republican who voted for a Democrat for the first time in my life, I think I will be more patient with Obama before I consider him a failure. Compared to the disastrous Bush administration, Obama can do no wrong for quite a while.
Speaking on the subject of this thread, the entrenched positions on the Israel-Palestine conflict are just so set in stone that I can't imagine a nice speech by Obama would make any difference. The "stone-heads" of Hamas have now been joined by the "stone-head" Netanyahu. I am afraid we have little to hope for in the Middle East.
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prieten47
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Re: OBAMA , USA and the MUSLIM RECONCILIATION : Do you Believe this will Wwork?
June 8, 2009 - 09:14 PM
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illuminati wrote:
Sitting down with dictators without preconditions to reach a negotiated settlement is the only way to reach an equitable solution.
Images of Neville Chamberlain waiving a piece of paper come to mind.
I agree with your analysis of the American political process. Money speaks loudest in Washington, DC. But the Democrats have a unique opportunity that they haven't had since Clinton's first term. They control the Presidency, and both houses of Congress, in the Senate it looks like they now have a fillibuster-proof 60 votes.
Let's see what the Dems do with it. They better act before the next Congressional elections.
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prieten47
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Re: OBAMA , USA and the MUSLIM RECONCILIATION : Do you Believe this will Wwork?
June 13, 2009 - 02:37 AM
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illuminati wrote:
Do not compare (or confuse) this with Neville's foreign policy of appeasement. I am talking about Negotiating from a position of strength... The U.S. has no moral authority to make demands and still uses a form of "gunboat diplomacy" to make its demands on weaker nations. All Nations should have a right to defend themselves as well as an awareness of the consequences of abuse of power with other nations. No nation should have a monopoly on nuclear technology. There needs to be a balance of power.
Let me see if I follow you: "Sitting down with dictators without preconditions to reach a negotiated settlement is the only way to reach an equitable solution" and you say this is not appeasement because the USA should "negotiate from a position of strength", but the USA "has no moral authority to make demands" and "there needs to be a balance of power."
Where exactly is this "position of strength" of the USA if it has no moral authority and all the dictators have a "balance of power" with us?
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: OBAMA , USA and the MUSLIM RECONCILIATION : Do you Believe this will Wwork?
June 13, 2009 - 07:52 AM
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Prieten - argue with Alex if it entertains you but you are not going to convince him of anything - His positions as they stand now dont make any sense.
Strength? despite everything on Obamas plate Alex is accusing him of reneging on promises because he is not running to dictators and begging their forgiveness.
He is such a radical leftist that Obama is a neo-con in his eyes and he has condemned him since the moment he took office - so consider the fundamental absurdity of his position then ask yourself if the conversation is worth it.
he cant even give him any real credit for the speech in Cairo - which was a major effort to engage the muslim world in constructive dialogue - instead Alex gives all the credit to the writers, as though they just handed him the papers when he got to the podium.
maybe, some day Alex will realize that just because wise men like Obama disagree with him on issues like say... Israels existence - that does not make them automatically corrupt - rather it means that there is more then one lens through which to see the issue.
and that good faith efforts to make peace - even when they do not deliver it over night - are to be applauded, not derided by armchair generals.
That as talented as Obama is, he is not a magician - he cant wave a wand and create peace in the middle east -
and that policy will not be completely rearranged in some sudden radical way - that is the delusion of self-righteous fools.
sitting down with dictators without preconditions will lead to an equitable solution for whome? certainly not for the people that the dictator rules without consent, rather you risk helping the dictator consolidate his grip on power.
It is fine to sit down without precondition - but that is different then sitting down without an agenda, and if the objectives of the agenda cannot be accomplished there is no point in simply talking.
while diplomacy is important you must maintain your principals - only fools rush in - rather it must be pursued with patience and a little strategy (and you already consider Obama a failure for exhibiting a little patience)
- when faced with someone like say Kim Jung Il - what are you supposed to do if they dont want to compromise? Offer to sit down again? Remind them you have no preconditions?
WE have made plenty of agreements with Kim - he just breaks them whenever he feels like it.
if it is not possible to change the dictators behavior through the talks there is no point in having them - discussions are not a solution in and of themselves.
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Alex Rhoden
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Re: OBAMA , USA and the MUSLIM RECONCILIATION : Do you Believe this will Wwork?
June 13, 2009 - 03:43 PM
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Prieten, The U.S. "position of strength" is military and economic in nature. The U.S. spends more on it's military weapons systems then the rest of the world combined so there can never be a true balance of power in the world. In order for the U.S. to regain credibility and respect from the rest of the world, It must stop trying to police the world and begin treating ALL nations fairly and honestly, Instead of being hypocritical by favoring certain nations at the expense of others as it currently does.
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Alex Rhoden
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Re: OBAMA , USA and the MUSLIM RECONCILIATION : Do you Believe this will Wwork?
June 13, 2009 - 03:55 PM
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Mr. Luke Lieberman states, "just because wise men like Obama disagree with him on issues like say... Israels existence " . Luke Lieberman, You have habit of making libelous and false statements in most of your postings. Let me set the record straight. I do not have a problem with israel existing. They can all come to America and buy our foreclosed homes if they like. I DO have a problem with israel living on Palestinian land. Land they stole by force from the Palestinians, with the assistance of the U.S. and Great Britain. I also have a problem with the illegal occupation of Palestine by israel. Obama has the political savvy to avoid the issue, just like all the other Presidential puppets before him.
Now run along Luke Lieberman, and say hello to cousin Avigdor Lieberman on your next vacation trip to israel. The two of you share much in common.
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prieten47
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Re: OBAMA , USA and the MUSLIM RECONCILIATION : Do you Believe this will Wwork?
June 15, 2009 - 01:10 AM
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illuminati wrote:
Prieten, The U.S. "position of strength" is military and economic in nature. The U.S. spends more on it's military weapons systems then the rest of the world combined so there can never be a true balance of power in the world. In order for the U.S. to regain credibility and respect from the rest of the world, It must stop trying to police the world and begin treating ALL nations fairly and honestly, Instead of being hypocritical by favoring certain nations at the expense of others as it currently does.
Well, I think Luke makes the stronger argument. Negotiating with tyrants tends to give those tyrants legitimacy and demoralizes those people in the country who are trying to get rid of the tyrant. I certainly hope Obama favors certain nations "at the expense" of others, namely friendly ones over enemies. Wouldn't make much sense to be your friend if you are just going to be neutral toward me and my enemies.
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prieten47
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Re: OBAMA , USA and the MUSLIM RECONCILIATION : Do you Believe this will Wwork?
June 17, 2009 - 02:06 AM
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illuminati wrote:
Prieten, The U.S. has a long history of giving legitimacy and support to tyrants, dictators and Monarchs. The U.S. gives no consideration to the people who live under the regimes that we currently assist, support and do business with. The U.S. has a double standard with regards to nations it does business with. If EVERY nation was allowed to have a few nuclear weapons that could reach Washington D.C, Tehran, Tel Aviv or Moscow for example...I believe every nation would think VERY carefully before invading, occupying or starting a war on false evidence as the U.S did in Iraq. I could live with a completely neutral world without war.
Well, maybe we should start thinking about the people who are suffering under tyranny, instead of continuing the old policy of giving legitimacy to tyrants (which is what you are advocating).
Let's say EVERY nation in the world had nuclear weapons. Would that really make you feel safer? Would that give any hope to people living under tyrannies? Would you be comfortable with an Afghanistan run by the Taleban (like it once was) having a few ICBMs that could hit New York?
Do you really think the world would be neutral with no wars if everyone had ICBMs? I know North Korea is just itching to use their new nukes. They just announced, if someone even "touches" their dignity, they are going to get hit with a nuclear attack.
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: OBAMA , USA and the MUSLIM RECONCILIATION : Do you Believe this will Wwork?
June 17, 2009 - 05:59 PM
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HAHAHHAHA! Is that the best you can do? - use my last name as guilt by association ; - )
The FM is not family, and I dont know him.
Some times it tough to believe you are actually in your forties.
now to your... argument...
- I do not have a problem with Israel existing. They can all come to America and buy our foreclosed homes if they like. - Alex
So you dont have a problem with Israel existing - just a problem with its existence...
Got it, you want the country destroyed even though such a war would destroy the entire middle east - and are unable to comprehend the complex history of the region through anything but the most simple prism.
- The U.S. has a long history of giving legitimacy and support to tyrants, dictators and Monarchs. - Alex
So do you - a month ago you were apologizing for and defending Ahmadinejad and the Iranian government - what do you think of them now???
- if EVERY nation was allowed to have a few nuclear weapons that could reach Washington D.C, Tehran, Tel Aviv or Moscow for example...I believe every nation would think VERY carefully before invading, occupying or starting a war - Alex
Ahhh - so thats the solution, every government should have nuclear arsenals - Brilliant!! Right that would make the world so much safer - boy I wish you were president and not Obama...
The more hands hold nuclear weapons, the more likely they will be used - and in this world if one is used, so will another, and another, and another...
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prieten47
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Re: OBAMA , USA and the MUSLIM RECONCILIATION : Do you Believe this will Wwork?
June 20, 2009 - 07:10 AM
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I think Obama has painted himself into a corner with his desire to "engage" Iran face to face over the nuclear proliferation issue.
The Iranian elections have turned into a travesty of the democratic process. The official election result is so far from the realm of the possible, that even Khamenei is backpedalling furiously.
While all the European presidents and prime ministers from Sarkozy to Gordon Brown to Angela Merkel are openly condemning the fraudulent election and criticizing the violent crackdown on the opposition, Obama is babbling platitudes, "I have deep concerns about the election," and "How that plays out is ultimately for the Iranian people to decide."
The prospect of not being able to fulfill his campaign promise to sit down with Ahmadinejad has gagged Obama's mouth precisely at a time when he should be giving some moral support to the Iranian people.
Oh well, just like Jimmy Carter, he'll have to learn on the job.
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