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Ha Thi Lan Anh
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Cyberspace and postmodernism
September 27, 2003 - 09:51 AM
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Im taking a cyberspace course. We are discussing about technology (internet,web,computers) and human in postmodern age to analysize the cultural implications of interactive digital technology. Im working on my first assignment.There are some questions im doing research on.Would love to hear your opinions and if you could recommend any links for reference i would really appreciate.Also there are some questions about personal view which are are interesting and im curious to know how people in different countries think about it.
Q1: When it comes to cyberspace a tremedous amount of fantasy is riding on the top of a relatively little implemented technology.What are the problems with the technological components that form the basis of cyberspace(internet,world wide web..) as a cutural construct?
Q2 : We might not be totally unaware of the fact that the high-tech stuff is dissapointing.Can we make it better?Now?How?
Q3: Do you feel you are living in postmodern age? If no,what kind of world/age you are living in?
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Roentgen
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Re: Cyberspace and postmodernism
September 28, 2003 - 05:24 AM
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Lan Anh, here's my two cents worth to the very profound and interesting questions. I hope you could clarify your meanings of 'technological components', 'postmodernism.'
Q1: Problems with technological components of cyberspace as a cultural construct
If technological components could also mean the content of what comprises cyberspace, then the primary problem lies on the lack of it or the inadequacy of it. Some countries just don't have the capacity to produce or utilize information that are reflective of their realities or context. Ironically, these are the countries which sorely need the right information. Their unique cultural values are therefore threatened, in that sense. Instead of emoploying cyberspace as an opportunity to preserve and promote their own cultures, the reverse occurs by virtue of the lack of local content. Second, we could also lok at the quality of the information that is available. We could suffer from info overload, but the quality of the information is still not sufficient. Third, there are relevant concerns on the language that is being used in the cyberspace. English as the language used in cyberspace is reportedly on a decline but the challenge remains for everyone, particularly governments to promote the use of vernaculars and dialects. One interesting question was posed by someone from civil society: HAVE THIS SO-CALLED INFORMATION AND COMMUNICATION TECHNOLOGIES RESULTED TO THE ESTABLISHMENT OF INFORMATION SOCIETIES, AND NOT ONLY AN INFORMATION SOCIETY? Thinking about it, do we have a world not composed of have or have-nots anymore (this is so economic determinism) but a world of 'knows' and 'know-nots'?
Q2: Can you please elaborate more on this?
Q3: As I have mentioned earlier we may have different interpretations of postmodernism. You know, this word has been overused . I remember this thinker writing that postmodernism is 'another stage of capitalism' and another one saying that it is the wave of thought and culture where the past is attempted, successfully or in a futile manner, with the present. Still another one describes it as the state where political correctness is the wave of thought and egalitarianism, subjectivity and anit-capitalism. Whew!:-O (I'm not really sure if I'm getting all these varying drifts.)
What I understand is that we live in a knowledge economy or arguably, an information society. The value of information is so high and the proliferation of ICTs have created both opportunities for human development, on one hand, and further divisions, on the other. This of course has important ramifications in other aspects of our lives. Some nations have adequately harnessed the benefits of ICTs, while many others have lagged behind...even more. As to opportunities, one important implication is through the accessibility of information, important developments in one part of the world are easily known in the rest. Such has continuously influenced the way the people live and think in other parts of the world. A demonstration against a corrupt government in one place could inspire similar activities in another. Does this mean that democratic values are increasingly being shared? Does this mean that more and more, everyone of us feel more affinity with each other, so much so that if there is a violation of human rights in one place, we feel that the violation is also committted against us? Or does the flow of information only enhances the promotion of certain values instead of enhancing diversity?
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leticia zero
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quality of information
September 29, 2003 - 03:58 AM
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I do agree with a specific issue the above poster mentioned: quality of information is the main 'problem', the main characteristic we should be addressing when reflecting about the information society.
We are living an age of spreading information and knowledge so fast that it's often mistreated, mislead. It's been mostly about quantity when it should be about quality.
Deffinetely provinding communities with access to information and TIC's is a vital point in the way their susteinable development. But the key is providing them with the abilities to reflect, to think about this knowledge. It's fostering among this communities the ability to make use of this knowledge, this technologies in a reflexive way. This is the only cultural constructive solution. Cyberspace (and TIC's) an we have them now are deffinetelly a postmodern relationship tool, fragmented and overloaded. WHat communities need is to deal with it in a way that they would actually bieng taught how to fish, not just been given the fish.
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amy
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Re: Cyberspace and postmodernism
October 7, 2003 - 03:29 AM
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This is really interesting, as I'm just trying to get my head around what an "information society" is.
I found this Marshall McLuhan quotations to be helpful (or as helpful as McLuhan quotations can be):
"The wired plant has no boundaries and no monopolies of knowledge."
In an ideal situation, the Information Society would be this "wired plant" - one where information is readily accessible to all, travelling at the speed of light to facilitate all aspects of human life.
(Of course, like Roentgen wrote, currently, this Information Society is (at best) only located in the West.)
But this ideal Information Society is postmodern in that there are "no monopolies are knowledge" - the centers of knowledge are distributed and multiple. And the (very general) postmodern notion of truth is that truth is not singular, one, whole - but infinite, conflicting, in flux. There are no monoliths, no overriding metanarratives in postmodernism, and the hope is that a true Information Society will reflect this.
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Laurent Straskraba
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i just read this right now ....
October 7, 2003 - 05:07 AM
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if i knew u were posting this earlier, i could have put in much more on this issue ...
just wanna add that there are some people working in this field i could recommend to u, if u still would like to collect some material.
my personal opinion about the idea of "cyerspace" is that sometimes people exaggerate and create a "new world out there" that would be someting "extraterrastic" 
sure, 3d visualization like in the cave (here at the ars electronica center) open new views and possibilities but we cannot say that it´s another world. it´s just a new way to perceive things that we created.
i´ve also heard about an australian who wanted to abstract his body and exchange everything human by technical equipment. well, maybe this person has problems with his self-image :P
ok, so if u r looking for further info, just let me know.
urs,
laurent
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Mark Simons
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Re: Cyberspace and postmodernism
November 8, 2003 - 02:59 AM
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The information society is still in its infancy, just look at how far technology and mass communcations have come since 1990... Look how much the political situation has changed...
Over the next few years more technology will reach more people, and more people will become citizens of the world as it were. I mean that's what most of us here are, and what this technological, communications revolution leads to.
This internet revolution is not over, the shape of the information society has yet to be decided, imagine what would happen if the internet ended up like television... Horrible...
Technology still has a long way to go, see what Sony release at the end of next year in the shape of the PSP and then imagine what it'll be like five years from then...
Yet still there are a couple of billion people who have never used a phone.
But then they've generally got more pressing issues than the internet and swapping mp3s romz or avis...
It also seems for politicians there are more pressing needs than empowering the information age truely and properly, the UKs administrations approach to the internet is a shambles...
We as a worldwide community need to make a bit of sense of the mess that is the internet, we need our own mass media, by the people for the people, and it can be done, google news is a step in the right direction, and advancement in digital imaging technology, as well as increased bandwidth and easier ways of transporting large files around and sharing or selling them, then things could get even more interesting.
As more people grow up with this technology then we'll see more of the cultural side of things, videogames I would cite as a great example of postmodernism, art, business, entertainment, technology; say what you will about them, it's better than researching real life weapons and the like...
I don't know what age I'm living in, post modern, modern, this week or last, but I do think that most age naming comes when we're dead, or at least when our contemporaries appear on tv clips compiliation shows reminiscing about their youth.
As for the kind of world, it's the truly f'cked up kind. truth be told. Also get the feeling that a large part of this whole thing comes down to America, for a number of reasons, some linked to ICT, some not, and some of the solutions to that are linked to ICT - www.blackboxvoting.com - and some more traditional.
Failing that we could just ignore america and get on with our own global cultural social mash up, swapping things on the internet, meeting people, finding things out, and generally making things easier and more frustrating, often at the same time.
But we do need to keep an eye out on the ability to control the technology ourselves, if we loose control of the ability to find out, report and read information at our lesuire, then the information age will be as dark as any other.
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Ha Thi Lan Anh
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Re: Cyberspace and postmodernism
November 8, 2003 - 10:26 AM
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wow thank you so much everyone.ANyway this is a piece of part of what i wrote for my class discussion. Quite a long ramble sorry :P. Love to hear feedback and furthur thoughts.
Lan anh =)
Postmodern is a term that emerged in the 1980s . Simply defined, as it name tells, post modernism is the follow up of modern age. Since modern age was centralized around capitalism, Postmodernism is the late capitalism. Before I moved to Canada to study, I lived in a developing country where capitalism is not our religion. However now having moved to Canada I realize the world I am living in is different. Canada is at the stage of post capitalism with the presence and domination of multi-corporations ,overproduction and over consumption .Post modernism can also be understood as a set of changes of modernism in all fields of life including arts, architecture ,science, education, politics, communication, sociology, technology and even fashion.
According to Baudrillard, one of the postmodern thinker, postmodernism is a “ flow of ultra-technological images in a consumerist hyper reality across the medias cape or mind screen to which we can passively surrender”. According to this definition we are living in the post modern age since we are receiving massive information contained in digital codes everyday. Computers and cyberspace have become indispensable and influential to our life that it makes it hard to live our normal life without them. As we are wired, we become what Baudrillard called “passive victims of TV, computer and advertising.” Advertising on TV and Internet have contributed in the increasing phenomena of consumption lifestyle and popular culture in our world.
On the other hand, the post modern world celebrates diversity and differences. It allows people to cherish their own identities, culture and belief in their own ways and own voices. Looking at arts ,language and architecture, we are living and working in buildings that are constructed in postmodern style which were built in a “double coding through eclecticism putting different styles of two different periods” with a lot of “old techniques and new patterns” ,accepting “the clutter of mixed mass culture, ornamented , suburban etc” .These buildings express “irony, along with comedy, sorrow, paradox and antiauthority qualities needed for living humors in a society made of different races, sexual orientation, culture etc” rather than just the steel, glasses, cube and square of architecture in modern age. There are many examples, some among them are ATT tower,CN Tower etc. In the field of arts, language are being used in new ways giving the chance to the less privileged, marginalized meaning to become central. Language are also being used in a creative and playful way with new free artificial signs and symbols.
Moreover, one of the characters of the world we are living that make it a postmodern one is the power of cyberspace. It is dominating our life. In this post modern world, students and teacher can communicate through websites with video conferencing, email and web cam. Consumers and producers do trading on visual market. Elements of our lives and society are being digitalized. Cyberspace open up a new era of communications. It makes our world become an interconnected global village .
As we are attracted to the new features and utilities of cyberspace everyday , we also ,as in Burglar’s words, “surrender ourselves in the ecstasy of communication”. Why are we so thirsty for communication ? One reason is that cyberspace as the center of the postmodern world is such a world of fantasies and fictions that is hard to resist. On the other hand we have this ecstasy for communication because cyber- communication and digital communication have made communication become vague and unreal.
Even though living in a postmodern society I do not consider myself as a postmodernist for a number of reasons. Firstly, postmodernism bring about several phenomena that I do not feel inline with. One example is cyberpunk. The term Cyberpunk appears in 1980s and was used to refer to people and lifestyle that relate to computer and have attitude such as “hip, sexy , violent, mind altered, anti authoritarian, rebellious.” Cyberpunk’s opposition to the centralized use of computers by big corporations and states is appreciated. However, the way they express their opposition is rather dull and destructive. Cyberpunk tends to have fun by playing with the law trying to “operate outside the law”. This is not a progressive method of opposition. Moreover, cyberpunk can hack systems to satisfy their own desire. This appears to me as irresponsible and destructive actions. Secondly, in the postmodern world, people are more concerned on “ simulation and appearance” than “ substance and reality”. This is why popular culture become such a phenomena in our world. Hence, while postmodernism celebrates on the differences and diversity up on a wide massive space, it forgets the depth and real values of human and society. Post modern world centralize the existence of Cyborg which means "half computer half human". Cyberspace is also a cyborg where people and computers become indispensable. This connection obviously bring many benefits to human. However as cyberspace become the center, human are being victims and dependable on machines too much. This eventually not all good since cyberspace is vulnerable to attack and we not yet have enough security and privacy system.
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Michael Newton-McLaughlin
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Re: Cyberspace and postmodernism
November 9, 2003 - 01:38 AM
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Well... (I'm taking a break from a book, saw Anh Lan's post)
<<Cyberpunk>>
First off, I am trying to understand how exactly 'cyberpunk' is mutually exclusive to being a post modernist. From what I understand of post-modernism (admitedly not a whole lot), I do not think any particular group or groups dictate exactly what it is. It seems more like a 'concept' - one that evokes the idea of a contrapositive. 'post-modern' - so after the modern, but that brings to mind 'what is modern'? At some point, the 'post-modern' people in the early 1990s, were counter-culture to the 1980s rhetoric and ideals, art, etc.. but then.. being a decade later, have the 1990s vbiews become (in a sense) 'modern' so we are now to reject those ideas and keep going? Really the term seems more like a euphemism for 'out with the old and in with the new' - except when one looks at the social/cultural trends of many societies (I could speak for America and parts of Europe), we usually see the same fads/ideas/art recycled with a new twist (usually technological) to them. So is post-modernism a cop out?
My other point is more a direct response to Anh Lan... you criticize 'cyberpunk' for going outside of the law, for going outside of 'the norms' - and claim that "this is not progressive method of operation." Perhaps you are correct, yet, I believe the contrary. While some incremental changes to stopping 'the system' or any particular goal from happening, working within the system often is the way to go. From my experience, however, most quasi-successful (or indeed successful) changes in society (read: revolutions or huge social uprisings) were not of a legal statute.. rather.. they are often very much OUTSIDE the system of redress and law. To quote Immortal Technique: "When you work within the system, it is not you who changes the system, but the system that eventually changes you." I think to a certain extent this is quite self evident... so my conclusion then, is to confront your idea of groups 'working outside the law' as a source of social and political change being negative. I beleive it, if organized effectively, to be positive.
No love lost, right? ;-) - feel free to shoot me an email sometime..
In peace,
Mike
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alberto
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Re: Cyberspace and postmodernism
November 10, 2003 - 01:50 AM
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mmmm... a very interesting discussion... postmodrnism is deffinatly a complicated issue with many facets for example even in the field of culture there is a dissolution of the social forms associated with modernity, a rejection of the distinction between "high" and "low" or popular culture, both in choice of materials used to produce art and in methods of displaying, distributing, and consuming art. A celebration of a world that has no longer a physical and "noisy" space, but becomes immaterial, dehumanized, personalized, that rejects boundaries between high and low forms of art, rejecting what is rigid structure to emphasise what is "destructered".
Modernism, tends to present a fragmented view of human subjectivity but presents that fragmentation as something negative. Many modernist works try to present the idea that works of art can provide the unity, coherence, and meaning which has been lost in most of modern life; art will do what other human institutions fail to do. Postmodernism, in contrast, doesn't lament the idea of fragmentation, provisionality, or incoherence, but rather celebrates that bringing these aspect to extreme consequences.
Another interesting aspect according to is that in modern and even more in postmodern societies there are no originals, only copies--or what the already quotted  Baurillard calls "simulacra." For example there is an original work a Picasso, or an ancient book, and thousands of copies, but the original is the one with the highest value. Compare that with cds video games where there is no "original," there are only copies that are all the same.
Think of mp3s, millions of personalized originals, no copies...
Think of virtual reality, a reality created by simulation, for which there is no original and extreme personalization, just think of computer games like the sims or on-line books, postmodern art or films.
Another interesting aspect is the concept of knowledge and culture. In modern societies knowledge was good for its own sake. In a postmodern society, however, knowledge becomes functional and usefull--you learn things, not to know them, but to use that knowledge. The key question is "What will you DO with your degree?", how many people do you know that just go to university to follow courses, to learn and don't do exams, get diplomas or MAs etc...
Not only is knowledge in postmodern societies characterized by its utility, but knowledge is also distributed, stored, and arranged differently in postmodern societies than in modern ones. Specifically, digitalization has revolutionized the modes of knowledge production, distribution, and consumption in our society. Think of digitilzied (and personlized) enciclopedias, magazines and books. Maybe one day anything that's not digitizable--will cease to be knowledge, Mcluhan in super highspeed fastforward, scary but possible...
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amy
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Re: Cyberspace and postmodernism
November 12, 2003 - 05:27 AM
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Originally posted by anardelli
Another interesting aspect according to is that in modern and even more in postmodern societies there are no originals, only copies--or what the already quotted Baurillard calls "simulacra." For example there is an original work a Picasso, or an ancient book, and thousands of copies, but the original is the one with the highest value. Compare that with cds video games where there is no "original," there are only copies that are all the same.
Think of mp3s, millions of personalized originals, no copies...
A little off-topic, but this is interesting in the light of Walter Benjamin's THE WORK OF ART IN THE AGE OF MECHANICAL REPRODUCTION http://pixels.filmtv.ucla.edu/gallery/web/julian_scaff/benjamin/benjamin.html. From a Marxist perspective, having no one privileged original is great, because art then begins to lose its aura of, well, "privilege" - that is, only rich people can see a Picasso in a gallery, drinking champagne, etc. This is also why the distinction between "low" and "high" art is blurred and how hierarchies are flattened.
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alberto
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Re: Cyberspace and postmodernism
November 14, 2003 - 09:05 AM
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Interesting point... but very complex and that opens a perspective on so many contraddictions and questions...
If it's true that a marxist perspective of flattened hierarchies can be considered positive as are "privileges" that dissapear, it's also true (first contraddiction) that the system that has led to access culture for all (masses) is the system that Marx criticyses: capitalism. It's because of the capitalist way of production that for example books started to be printed in millions of copies, translated etc... therefore became accessible.
The second contraddiction and question in quotting Marx is that, once his theory become system you have a culture which is accessible to all but becomes a "regime's culture" that is censored, piloted, used for propaganda or simply in the "name of the ideal". Obviously this, even considering all the excpetional genius emerged within many communist regimes, collides with the essence of art being a personal recreation and interpretation of reality, society, individuality or of profound meaning.
Another thing that comes to mind in terms of questions on the massification of culture, if one side it has brought to access knowledge on the other it has also meant, mainly because of capitalism, the birth of a second division culture for the masses that creates films, books, (non)-artists that flatten the level of arts and that most "members of the mass" consume.
You have access, but access to what?
Or better what are you pushed towards having access to?
Privilege and hierachy are therefore maybe reproposed within "low" and "high" arts, and it's just they are not measured in dollars but in elements of social structure.
?!?
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Belle
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Re: Cyberspace and postmodernism
October 12, 2005 - 02:19 AM
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Hi am currently taking a cyberspace course as well and I am working on a project. I am seriously confused with one of the questions and I was wondering if someone could help me...Question goes as follows:Is cyberspace based on technology? If yes, what kind of technlogy? What are the problems with the technical components that form the basis of cyberspace? wow long question...THANKS SOO MUCH!
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Derek Martin
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cyberspace
October 13, 2005 - 04:57 AM
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False
Cyberspace is a location, independent of technology
It is an imagined space wherein people agree on what is occurring
One of the net's pioneers, John Perry Barlow referred to cyberspace as a "consensual hallucinogen"
When you're talking on the phone, you're conversing inside a cyberspace
When you're chatting online, that's cyberspace too
But so is the space inhabited by people using CB radios
As are the virtual worlds populated by so many MMPORG players (EverQuest, World of Warcraft, etc)
If you're lucky enough to be able, you can even experience the cyberspace of shared dreaming with a friend(s)
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SODOKPA T. S. Camus. F
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Forum in French
February 19, 2006 - 12:28 PM
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je veux qu'on réserve une partie au francophone
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