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speakup
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The "No Fail" Policy
May 4, 2009 - 11:50 AM
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Ontario public high schools have a policy that students who fail, do not hand in, or cheat on a test or assignment can retake that test or assignment as many times as necessary until they pass it.
What do you think about this policy? Does anyone know more about it?
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Tracy Webb
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Re: The
May 4, 2009 - 03:30 PM
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Hi - There is a growing movement across Canada (N.A.) in this direction, and it is the way I teach/evaluate/assess as well. I have had some students argue with me to just give them a zero and forget the work, but they are pretty happy when they get marks back which more accurately portray their abilities. Yes, some people abuse this, but I figure they'll learn the consequences of not being true to themselves sooner or later...It is a LOT of extra work, but overall I believe it is a much more humane and fair way to evaluate and assess progress, and to support student learning in a safer atmosphere of not failing - therefore hopefully they take the chance of trying more.
Cheers -
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Trilobike
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Saladin Abuhamdieh
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Re: The "No Fail" Policy
May 5, 2009 - 04:42 AM
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hehehe... we have fail policy here
well.. i think thats not that good policy coz students might not just study.. coz they allready know that they will retake it if they fail... but if they knew they only have one chance... they will do better and study more...
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speakup
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Re: The "No Fail" Policy
May 5, 2009 - 12:12 PM
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trilobike wrote:
Yes, some people abuse this, but I figure they'll learn the consequences of not being true to themselves sooner or later...How do students abuse it? And how do you deal with students who do?It is a LOT of extra work, but overall I believe it is a much more humane and fair way to evaluate and assess progress, and to support student learning in a safer atmosphere of not failing - therefore hopefully they take the chance of trying more.Thank you for your reply, Tracy! I find your points interesting, especially because I have heard mostly negative comments about this system. I really like the idea of offering students multiple chances to succeed, and I think it would be cool if society also believed this.
Just curious: how would you reply to the idea that this system does not properly prepare students for the "real world"? For example, work-related projects will be due at certain dates and there may not be extensions or opportunities to re-do them; how does this system give students the skills to complete projects on-time and efficiently manage their time?
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speakup
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Re: The "No Fail" Policy
May 5, 2009 - 12:25 PM
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abuhamdieh wrote:
hehehe... we have fail policy hereWhat do you mean by a "fail policy"?
well.. i think thats not that good policy coz students might not just study.. coz they allready know that they will retake it if they fail... but if they knew they only have one chance... they will do better and study more...Thanks for your reply, Saladin! Good points. I wonder how this would affect the quality of learning, especially with subjects like math and science. In math, ideas should be learned in a specific order, because ideas build upon each other. "Volume" depends on "area", for example. But if a student does poorly on an area test, and postpones studying for it, then he may find it hard to learn "volume" concepts when they are taught in class.
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dot
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Re: The "No Fail" Policy
May 5, 2009 - 02:19 PM
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"Haste makes waste" some people said yes and some people said no.
Most of people have this policy in their mind. It is like something can not see but fasten people tidely
I wish I had been born 100 years ago to say " It is bad". I think it is a way to motivate students by managing their time or figuring out the solution quickly which can make a distinct and is useful for the future life. I am not sure the quality of the works done by this way can be well-done. I have experienced that we have to manage many works at the same time in our IT technology, if not we will be dismised. It can achieve 90%, not 100% but it can be acceptable?
If I was in decline for applying my essay, I would make it by the best way that both giving enough details and save time. because I will use the saving time for checking the essay again and asking myself " what are the important parts?" then continue do these parts the second time.
The important things is I am pleased with my essay when it is done in little time like that
This post was edited on: 2009-05-05 at 02:22 PM by: dotdot
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Tracy Webb
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Re: The "No Fail" Policy
May 5, 2009 - 03:06 PM
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you wrote - "...know that they will retake it if they fail... but if they knew they only have one chance... they will do better and study more..."
Well, I suppose some may feel this way, but I haven't found this to be the case very often - and they do only get one rewrite per test opportunity. I have found the opposite to be true - students have said they feel much more relaxed and not as stressed out - therefore generally doing much better. Even students with 89% enjoy the challenge of doing even better.
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Trilobike
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Tracy Webb
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Re: The "No Fail" Policy
May 5, 2009 - 03:17 PM
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Hi - Students may abuse this system by waiting til someone else's work is passed in, marked and passed back and they just copy. Sometimes I catch this, sometimes I don't. I usually have a very good intuitive feeling about a student, and if I do suspect something of this nature, I often will just sit down with them and ask questions about their work, under the guise of making sure they really do understand it. I am not confrontational but there have been times when the onus is put on the student to prove their work.
Also - for the real world - well let's say I'm late for school for some reason: I'm not fired, or docked pay. Obviously if this was a habit, or in the tone of not caring there'd be different consequences. If I failed my Driver's Test, I get to try again when I'm better prepared, with no baggage of the previous test affecting me. If I get the opportunity to learn from my mistakes, I'm more apt to make less of them as I go along. If something comes up and I tell my principal that I really can't make a certain deadline - chances are I'll be given more time.
In the real world there are always absolutes, but also flexibile situations - I think that if students experience a mixture of both they'll be better at planning later. I cannot give extensions on everything, and the students know and accept this. An elastic can only stretch so far so often before it snaps - and I tell them that - "remember the elastic!" (Not that I'm representing the elastic - just the reality of time and school deadlines...) Cheers - *
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Trilobike
This post was edited on: 2009-05-05 at 08:06 PM by: trilobike
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Saladin Abuhamdieh
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Re: The "No Fail" Policy
May 10, 2009 - 10:43 AM
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what i meant of * Fail policy *
well.. i'll just speak about the last year in school because it's the most important one here
and thats the year i'm passing.. it's hard.. and you have only one chance first that after finishing all your time in school.. so i finish all subjects and i take first semester finals then second semester finals ( that i just finished today )
then we have a moth to study the whole curriculum
and do our final exams... if any one failed in more than 2 subjects or 3 i don't remember... they will have to retake the whole year.. if less then they just retake these exams...
but the previous years are not easier but it's hard to fail because sometimes they just give auto pass..
yes about your example... but i'll say it of something happened to me...
technology subject is not that important here.. it's optional with other subject that is science..
i know that i don't like technology and it's hard.. and getting not a high mark or failing at school in this subject won't make a big change coz i just need 50/100 to delete it ... and so i didn't study that much for it.. in the other hand i studied science very well... and i got in technology 40/80 and in science i got 78/80
i guess this no fail policy just make students don't study... coz there are not consequences to bear
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Jennifer Moule
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Re: The "No Fail" Policy
August 15, 2009 - 09:04 PM
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What I think is the most important part of a no-fail policy is that it increases the children's chances of actually LEARNING the subject. I'm surprised that hasn't been mentioned yet because, really, isn't that what matters far above the competition and the speediness of completing work??
If a student does not have enough time (or drive) to learn the material for, say, a Plant Biology a test then there are two possibilities. In the "Fail" system, that student will never ever accurately learn the information that was valued on that test. In the "No-Fail" system, the student will have to put effort into learning more and more until they have learned a sufficient amount of Plant Biology information.
The big, true value is that the student learned about Plant Biology. If the student had no time to do so before the test (For whatever reason. Maybe they are taking care of a sick parent, maybe they preferred to go shopping the night before.) and is permitted to fail, they won't know Plant Biology and therefore can't build on that knowledge in future school requirements.
This is exactly how children fall through the cracks!
All in all, this means that I fully support the "No-Fail" system though, despite being from Ontario, I did not experience this in my schooling.
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