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Kabo Harold
连接： Mar 2, 2006
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性别和年龄： 男性, 25
国家：Botswana
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Re: Paradox Of Our Times
June 29, 2009 - 07:08 AM
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Hello Redmamba
Although I am delighted that you see the evident pros of embracing free market capitalism, my heart swells with sorrow when I hear you mention that "It is from this understanding that I wish to agree with my friend Prieten47. Free market economies encourage creativity and initiative: however it advances greed; man eat man kind of mentality. Out of greed then Man or woman does not care about anything but to get rich; some even aspire to be lords of the universe."
My African brother Redmamba, let me take this time to clearly articulate that greed is good, greed is right. Greed for the pursuit of wealth, greed for the pursuit of happiness, greed for the pursuit of recognition and greed for the pursuit of excellence are all admirable qualities in a thriving and robust economy. For ages, the greatest civilization in the world have been founded on greed; The Spartans, the Greek empire, the Roman Empire, Chinese civilization, the British and American empire. The cornucopia of creativity, innovation, production and trade that emanates from societies driven by qualities of self interest are profound. When Henry Ford invented the Model T automobile, was the invention driven by his benevolence?? When Bill Gates designed Microsoft Office applications and Dos, was his creativity being driven by love??
I can assure you that the innovation of both these men was driven by a relentless pursuit of wealth and recognition. Free market capitalism brings out the best and worst qualities in human beings. However, empirical evidence suggests that capitalism has done more good than harm to society. If everybody aspires to make it big in life, don't you think poverty alleviation would be reached?? One mans self interest can help lift millions out of poverty. Microsoft is entering new markets in poverty stricken areas of India and Africa. By hiring, training and paying these locals, poverty is being reduced
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prieten47
连接： Oct 26, 2006
邮件 24
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爱说话的
用户是：
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性别和年龄： 男性, 50
国家：Japan
Province/State: Hokkaido
城市: Sapporo
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Re: Paradox Of Our Times
June 30, 2009 - 06:08 AM
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Kabo Harold, I'm sorry, I didn't see how old the GINI index was for Botswana. Yes, I am sure Botswana has improved since 1993.
I agree 100% with you that some politicians will try to use the current economic crisis to "lock in" some voters who can be made dependent on government handouts. We have to hope the "baby is not thrown out with the bathwater" and the good aspects of capitalism are not destroyed.
Today, Bernie Madoff was sentenced to 150(?) years in prison for his fraud. I am afraid capitalism has taken some severe hits from the Wall Street hucksters and Madoff-types and many people's trust in capitalism has been shaken.
I hope you are fully recovered from your illness.
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redmamba
连接： May 2, 2004
邮件 5
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性别和年龄： 男性, 26
国家：Kenya
Province/State: Nairobi Area
城市: Nairobi
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Re: Paradox Of Our Times
July 1, 2009 - 04:20 AM
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KaboHarold, this is what you had to say:
"A My African brother Redmamba, let me take this time to clearly articulate that greed is good, greed is right. Greed for the pursuit of wealth, greed for the pursuit of happiness, greed for the pursuit of recognition and greed for the pursuit of excellence are all admirable qualities in a thriving and robust economy."
My dear friend: now I know why you named this thread "Paradox of Our times". It is paradoxical that I am persuaded to agree with you. From the way the world is structured; reality out there now, it appears greed is right and good. Heard of words like "consumerism"? Well at the heart of consumerism is the greed you describe very romantically. Is world recession, the economic meltdown especially in the USA not a result of some greed; unbridled capitalism?
Greed has insatiability as an extension or attribute. And it is insatiability that makes a demon out of capitalism. I do not advocate for communism or socialism. I prefer social-capitalism; i.e. that human beings (out of greed according to Kaboharold)go for the best possible, however, they remain conscious to the consequences of their actions and the effects of their actions on those around them.
In your own title 'paradox of our times' you describe things or reality, as it is, better than you might have imagined. From some angle, free market, liberalization, capitalism, etc seem to be the best suit. In some other way communism, market control, conservatism, caution etc seem to be best suit.
The solution is in being able to appreciate the paradoxes; then thinking of now with even just 50yrs from now in consideration. Then we can make conscious choices that will leave earth a good home for all and not just a good haven for the 'accidentally privileged few!'
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prieten47
连接： Oct 26, 2006
邮件 24
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爱说话的
用户是：
下线
性别和年龄： 男性, 50
国家：Japan
Province/State: Hokkaido
城市: Sapporo
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Re: Paradox Of Our Times
July 1, 2009 - 09:04 PM
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kaboharold wrote:
My African brother Redmamba, let me take this time to clearly articulate that greed is good, greed is right. Greed for the pursuit of wealth, greed for the pursuit of happiness, greed for the pursuit of recognition and greed for the pursuit of excellence are all admirable qualities in a thriving and robust economy. For ages, the greatest civilization in the world have been founded on greed; The Spartans, the Greek empire, the Roman Empire, Chinese civilization, the British and American empire. The cornucopia of creativity, innovation, production and trade that emanates from societies driven by qualities of self interest are profound. When Henry Ford invented the Model T automobile, was the invention driven by his benevolence?? When Bill Gates designed Microsoft Office applications and Dos, was his creativity being driven by love??
I can assure you that the innovation of both these men was driven by a relentless pursuit of wealth and recognition. Free market capitalism brings out the best and worst qualities in human beings. However, empirical evidence suggests that capitalism has done more good than harm to society. If everybody aspires to make it big in life, don't you think poverty alleviation would be reached?? One mans self interest can help lift millions out of poverty. Microsoft is entering new markets in poverty stricken areas of India and Africa. By hiring, training and paying these locals, poverty is being reduced
I think Redmamba put his finger on the Achilles Heel of this romantic rhapsody to Capitalism. The world is a very different place today than during the Greek, Roman times (those civilizations all collapsed by the way). The population of the world is much greater today. The demand for oil and mineral resources is already pushing against the Earth's limits. If one has a "limitless" wilderness to conquer, to satisfy one's limitless greed, capitalism can achieve great things. But when there are limits to growth, capitalism descends to "beggar thy neighbor." Is that a world we really want? Shouldn't we look for more sustainable economies? The populations of the developed world are stagnant, in Japan it is going down. I think this is a hopeful sign for the Earth's future. But one would never know it from reading our newspapers. Politicians all complain that there won't be enough taxpayers in the future without thinking about whether the Earth can afford more high consumers.
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