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Elizabeth
Joined: Jul 1, 2003
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How can we transform a society?
August 25, 2003 - 06:36 AM
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It is a shame that the worlds educator get paid such low salaries. These people should be valued, not taken for grantite. Why is it that sports stars get paid millions, while they are just mere entertainment? Teachers train the world, do they not deserve any praise?
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Matthew Huebert
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Re: How can we transform a society?
August 27, 2003 - 01:54 AM
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True, teachers do not get world-class salaries. Salaries are defined by money that has to come from somewhere. Athletes make their millions because millions of people pay to watch them. There is no objective person sitting up in the sky telling everybody how much money they will make based on their contribution to society; people in society set each other's wages by paying each other for the value they give.
One way for teachers to get paid millions would be for them to go into private enterprise. Robert Kiyosaki has educated millions of people about finances by writing books; I learned more useful, life-applicable information from him than most any other teacher. He makes money by leveraging books & the internet to reach more people than he could ever talk to in a classroom.
Teachers could also get paid higher in a private school where students pay high tuition fees. However, this is not an option that will go extremely far as long as free education continues to be available.
Under the current system, increases in teacher's salaries will come either from an increase in taxes, or from the government taking money out of other programs and putting it into education. Being that we have a bloated, often inefficient government, I believe that cutting it down to size would free up the cash necessary to improve the education system and reward teachers for their performance.
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Elizabeth
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Re: How can we transform a society?
August 29, 2003 - 05:09 AM
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I am not saying that teachers deserve millions of dollars. I am just trying to say that it is ilogical that physical strength over powers the mind. What is history mostly made of? How far will home runs take you in life? But you are right, the millions of people that watch the sports enterprise give them their salaries. That is fact.
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Terri Willard
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Re: How can we transform a society?
September 2, 2003 - 01:15 AM
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I read somewhere (I'll try and find it later) that day care workers and pre-school teachers in the USA are paid less well than parking lot attendants.
It's scary that we seem to value the security of our cars more than the education of our children.
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Mr. Frodo
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Re: How can we transform a society?
September 2, 2003 - 07:59 AM
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It is always funny to me when people complain about teachers' low salary, and yet forget where the money comes from in the first place. The vast majority of states (remember, states are in charge of education) are already so far in the hole they may never get out. To increase all of the teacher's salaries, by even a small amount, would mean states would have to go even further into the red. I am certainly not questioning the importance of educators in the preservation and furthering of society, but I simply do not see any practical way to increase their wage without increasing taxes, and how many will sign up for that?
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Oke Rotimi
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Re: How can we transform a society?
October 15, 2003 - 12:06 PM
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Mattuebert i love your comment.
Anyway i think teachers deserve to be treated special when compare their wonderful service to humanity and to what they are being paid.
_____Oke Rotimi (omo iya shade )
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Sally
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Re: How can we transform a society?
November 1, 2003 - 08:33 AM
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sports stars work extremely hard to "entertain" us like you said...they need to train and train to make themselves look good for the audience so i think they deserve some credit and get loadz of money. Teachers don't need to work as hard phsically...and they have the help of other teachers and textbooks to teach students....maybe it's true they desrve a higher salery but not so much as sports stars..
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farhana siddique
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"A SCARY FACT THIS IS"
November 13, 2003 - 11:58 AM
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Originally posted by taikod
I read somewhere (I'll try and find it later) that day care workers and pre-school teachers in the USA are paid less well than parking lot attendants.
It's scary that we seem to value the security of our cars more than the education of our children.
Dear Taikod, what u read and shared with the board is 100%
true to our society. Here, in Pakistan, the person unable to assert himself in anyother cherished profession of society, is thought to befitted for teaching field.The sole reason of all this is not too far to seek; it's a deadly low-paid profession.
See what the so-called "Builder of the Nation-Builders" cultivates and what he harvests. He provides the nation with a whole new brilliant regiment of youth, and earns just a little money; quite insufficient for his survival.
A time has come to pay due heed to this issue and as mentioned by Opinionram, these people shouldn't be taken for granted.
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Damian Profeta
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Anti-TIG Teachers
November 14, 2003 - 08:50 AM
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English & Spanish
-----------------
Let’s talk about the Anti-TIG Teacher. Today I had a class with a specimen of this educational nature.
What are they like? They:
Do NOT Inspire
Do NOT Inform
Do NOT Involve
It can be added that they don’t Educate either. The variant of this species I have had to deal with is the chair of Argentinean Literature.
I’m sure that everyone has had an Anti-TIG teacher, and more, in the best of cases had only a few of such teachers… unfortunately, my experience has shown my that TIG teachers are few.
How can you identify the typical Anti-TIG teacher?
1-By half the year, only half the class remains. A quarter has passed to another shift and the rest saw their university career frustrated, at least for the year.
2-They incite fear. They’re authoritarian and always reject students’ opinions.
3-The class soon becomes a monologue or worse, a soliloquy. The students remain quiet, many times because they’re scared to participate.
4-Since they see themselves as "investigators" they abound in unnecessary technicalities – that go unexplained. As result we deepen our ignorance, boredom, because the class cannot be followed, and finally the greatest disinterest. This combination results in frustration...(Many of these "investigators" would have to realize of that knowing something is not the same as knowing how to transmit it, even when it isn’t more than a minimum of knowledge).
5-When they don’t obtain the result they had hoped (a class that participating, students who repeats their technicalities, etc.), they blame the students, without ever thinking about what they lack as teachers.
6-... the list of traits that identify them is infinite
I’m worried, next week I have my last examination… and I think it might not be the last…
I am very furious... only honor keeps me from saying his name. At least, without him setting it out to be, he’s an example I have of how not to be when I finally become a Teacher. I will always have as goal to be a TIG Teacher.
TO INSPIRE. TO INFORM. TO INVOLVE. TO EDUCATE.
-----------------------------------------------------
El Profesor Anti-TIG
Hablemos del Profesor AntiTIG. Hoy tuve clases con este especímen de la naturaleza docente.
Cuáles son sus características?
NO-Inspira
NO-Informa
NO-Incluye
Está de más decir también que tampoco Educa. La variante de esta especie que me tocó a mí es el de que se aboca a la cátedra de Literatura Argentina.
Seguro que todos alguna vez en la vida tuvieron un Profesor AntiTIG, es más, en el mejor de los casos los Profesores AntiTIG son sólo unos pocos... lamentablemente mi experiencia me dice que los Profesores TIG son pocos.
Cómo puede identificarse un típico Profesor AntiTIG?
1-A mitad del año, sólo sigue cursando la mitad de la clase. Un cuarto se pasó al otro turno y el resto vio frustrada su carrera, al menos por ese año.
2-Infunde miedo. Es autoritario y siempre rechaza las opiniones de los alumnos.
3-La clase pronto se vuelve un monólogo o peor, un soliloquio. Los alumnos se quedan callados, muchas veces porque tienen miedo de participar.
4-Como se creen "investigadores" abundan en tecnicismos -no explicados- innecesarios. Como resultado tenemos una profundización del desconocimiento, aburrimiento porque no se puede seguir la clase y por último el mayor de los desintereres. Esta combinación da como resultado frustración...(muchos de estos "investigadores" deberían darse cuenta de que saberse un genio no es lo mismo que saber transmitir, aunque más no sea, un mínimo de conocimiento).
5-Cuando no obtiene el resultado que espera, (una clase participativa, alumnos que repitan sus tecnicismos, etc.) responsabiliza a los estudiantes, sin pensar en qué está fallando él como docente.
6-... la lista de características para identificarlo es infinita.
Yo estoy preocupado, la semana que viene tengo que dar el último exámen... y pienso que no será el último...
Estoy muy furioso... sólo el decoro me hace obviar su nombre. Al menos, sin que él se lo proponga, aprendo cómo no voy a ser cuando por fin me reciba de Profesor. Siempre tendré como norte ser un Profesor TIG.
INSPIRAR. INFORMAR. INCLUIR. EDUCAR.
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Sunny Yeung
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Re: How can we transform a society?
November 14, 2003 - 09:29 AM
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Well... the teachers in my school district are paid about $43K per year, and that's not a very bad salary at all in my eyes. Anyways, I think the thing keeping the salaries low are the administrators who are trying to fluff up everything and serve themselves up with a real nice slice of the pie.
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Cherrie
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Re: How can we transform a society?
January 2, 2004 - 05:42 AM
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Are all of you guys from the US?? (I'm not trying to be rude or anything, I'm just trying to gauge the teachers' situation ...you know, depending on economy and what dollar you're talking about...)
Umm... I'm from New Zealand and teachers (state not private secondary schools) get paid SQUAT (am I allowed to use that word??) here... an average teacher gets paid about $30,000pa (I think...or approximate anyway)...that's NZD. So in US, that's about 15000. HODs (Heads of Departments) get paid about $50,000pa NZD. That's about the highest pay you can get. (I think if you're a Dean, you get a bit more...)
And recently (well, 2002), the government made this stupid thing (I'll summarise) where basically, teachers in secondary (3rd to 7th form or Year 9 to 13 or Grade 8 to 12 or...13 to 18 year olds...), primary (5 to 12/13 year olds) and kindergartens (so younger than 5) get the same pay. There are some other criteria like, you have to have a degree to qualify...
I KNOW that for kindergarten, teachers are giving the children their values and basic skills (which are important), but giving them the same worth (i.e. pay) as SECONDARY teachers who have to have precise knowledge about their subjects AND mind adolescents who are growing up, etc... that's just WRONG!!
Anyway, (I DO have a point...) there was a big uproar by the PPTA (Post Primary Teachers' Association) and there were heaps of strikes last year...and rightly so. Our school (I was in 6th form then) even organised an enormous protest outside our school (on a huge busy street) with banners and stuff. I wasn't directly involved with the planning (as the seventh formers did it)...but everyone was really proud of their work, because we actually got all the right permits beforehand, and followed the rules (the police didn't have to come)...students went to classes and went out to rally only when they had free periods, etc... everything was scheduled so beautifully and this went on for an entire week. Anyway, heaps of other schools around the country did the same.... it was on the news every night. I mean, how often are there thousands of students willing to give up their free time to fight for teachers??!
In the end, the teachers got a small raise...due to the fact that NZ are trying to implement this new system called NCEA (National Certificate of Education Achievement) to replace the old system.. they're doing this year by year and level by level. It's a HUGE amount of work because it's basically transferring from the relatively external (old) system to a very internal (like, internal assessments instead of national exams...though they're still there...only as a percentage of your total score) so there's heaps of training involved to make sure all the schools are giving the same standards,etc. Anyway, the outcome was a small raise in the disguise of a small amount of money allocated to certain schools so they can give it to "resources" to help integrate the new system. I don't really know the full story, but if anyone is interested I could try look it up somewhere.
Anyway, private schools get quite a lot more... I know that this school in Auckland gives their teachers $10000 pa more than state schools. Still, it's nothing compared to what the politicians get:
Starting: $110,000pa
Earn up to: $195,000pa
The Prime Minister gets: $305,000
I actually think they're slightly higher because I think they just gave themselves a raise...(is THAT why Dad was yelling??)
I know that they RUN THE COUNTRY, but HELLO, the teachers educate the future generations!!!
Hmm.. despite that being my opinion, I still have some lingering thoughts...
Do you think that if teachers have moderate (not stingy, but not over the top) salaries, the level of education would actually be higher than over the top salaries because then only teachers who are passionate about what they do will do it....?? i.e. so they're not there for the money...there's a similar problem with many other professions... I mean, how many people do you know who want to be doctors simply because of the prestige (ahem,letters behind their name) or the money as opposed to genuinely wanting to "heal"...but then again, how many people are genuinely passionate about their jobs 24/7?
I don't know. I think I just got myself confused.
If anyone actually finished reading this, congrats. Please proceed now to include your comments. Please do not make the same mistake I did: making this the length of a novel. Thank you, thank you very much.
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James Morgan
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Teachers are the are the gatekeepers to your countries future?
January 5, 2004 - 04:54 AM
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This may be construed as a bold statement but I believe that the descent of moral standards in the United Kingdom is directly related to the undervaluation of teachers in society. Post second world war was a golden age for teachers, they were paid well and appreciated. They had power within and outside of the classroom, they were seen as valued members of society commanding justifiable respect and getting paid well for it. Unfortunately as time when on, their power within the classroom diminished. I will never advocate corporal punishment but its seems obvious that the abolition of corporal punishment was a major contributor to the loss of power. The kids just took over. In the area of Britain I live in, South Wales, the problem has got completely out of hand. In most areas of the city there are large gangs of kids, ranging from 5-18 years old just doing what they want, they have no respect for anyone, their parents have no control over them and there are so many of them that people are too fightened to call the police who dont care anyway. There has always been bad kids, i was no angel myself, but there has to be a fear of repurcussions being visited upon you if you do something and you get caught for it. Without that society is lawless. These kids dont care for education, they view it as an annoyance in the way of them having fun. Suspension? Great, two weeks off watching TV. Expulsion? Even better. Detention? I wont go and when I dont I'll get suspended (see above). They have no fear of repurcussions from neighbours of other members of the communnity, theres simply too many of them. I know of many occasions when grown men have be beaten badly enough to require hospital treatment by gangs of youths as young as 8 or 9. Anyway getting back to the point I was trying to make, we must give power back to the teachers, it is imperative. If corporal punishment is not the answer, then what is. The future of society depends on our ability to produce honest, hardworking and above all respectful members of our society. Beliefs, opinions and values that are formed in our schools are just as important as the ones formed by our parents. Is it however a broader problem which asks questions of our society as a whole? Further discussion would be valued.
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majeedullah qarar
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I think
January 5, 2004 - 05:53 AM
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that the low salary of a teacher isn’t just a financial problem that suffers the teachers only, but it is also an educational problem because it will drive talents and skills toward other fields and the duty of teaching will stay with the people not suitable or appropriate for it.
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James Morgan
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Is there an answer?
January 5, 2004 - 07:18 AM
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Do you think there is a way for people to persuade their governments to take education more seriously. They keep saying they will in my country but nothing ever seems to get done. Teachers are the shapers of the next generation, if our children are taught by sub-standard teachers who feel under appreciated and under paid what hope is there for the future?
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Cherrie
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I don't understand...
January 5, 2004 - 08:50 AM
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how so many people agree that teachers are underpaid and yet there has not been any resolution...
what can we do to make a change?
any ideas?
I'm actually serious. If there are any good ideas we should plan to take action.
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