« BACK TO FORUM
 Author |
 Post
|
 |
|
Mike
Joined: Aug 31, 2001
Posts: 369 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male & 25
Country: Australia
Province/State: Western Australia
City: Perth
|
Terrorism. American Style.
December 27, 2001 - 08:24 AM
|
|
I am sooo sick of hearing how good the United States is, and how bad people like John Walker are. Even worse, how bad the people who dare to defy the enemy and fight back when their country gets invaded by the United States superpower. The sheer arrogance, or is it ignorance, of the american people and their government is stupendous.
Terrorism is defined as "the calculated use of violence or the threat of violence to inculcate fear; intended to coerce or to intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological."
What's the difference between Terrorism and the current Counter-terrorism campaign? aA campaign which is using violence and the threat of violence to coerce and intimidate governments into getting rid of "terrorist organisations" which do not support the ideals of the United States of America.
The only difference is what side you're on! In typical United States style, "You're either with us, or against us"
In the first few days after the World Trade Centre was destroyed, America was asking "Why do they hate us?"
"They hate us because we champion a new world order of democracy and capitalism *yardi yardi yarda*"
"The terrorists seek nothing more than apocalyptic nileism"
"Why do you hate us?"
Isn't it reason enough that a country doesn't even realise why a group of people hates them? Consider this a wake-up call to the citizens of the United States - your sacred flag, your sacred song, the land of the free and the home of the brave. Take your head out of the sand and see that a lot of people do not like America, or American people. In most instances, it's because they're so ignorant about anything going on outside their television, and so arrogant as to be "damn proud of it too!".
In the White Corner, wearing the red, white and blue trunks - the United States. In the Black Corner, wearing sinister looking black trunks - the bad guys - everyone who would dare fight against these champions of justice and fighters of terrorism.
But at the same time, the United States is the World Champion Terrorist country, using terrorism in countless instances to "coerce or to intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are political or ideological" - and there's nothing nobody can do about it!
You might have heard on the news that the only two organisations in America who develop Anthrax are the CIA and the Army. What the hell is the CIA doing with Anthrax?
Essentially, the CIA is a Terrorist organisation, but since it's "on our side", it's one of the good guys.
On top of financing terrorist organisations themselves (such as Al-Qa'eda), the CIA is notorious for kidnapping and assassinating leaders of countries (often democracies) who do not agree with the United States.
Ironically, the United States has funded the wars of hundreds of organisations, and assisted them in fighting America's enemies, only to have the organisations whom they have supported turn against them.
The guy who tried to blow up the World Trade Centre the first time was an Egyptian Cleric who was brought into the USA as a favour by the CIA, against the better judgement of the Immigration Department.
As the saying goes, "When the chickens come home to roost"
The worst part is, whether you're good or bad, if the Americans attack you, there's nothing you can do about it.
Lets use an example of American terrorism. Under the Reagan administration, the United States recruited mercinaries in Nicaragua to act as a terrorist army. Well-funded, well armed, and well equipped, the army worked to cripple the country so that it needed to rely on the United States. Reliance on the United States meant America's interests in nearby Nicaragua would always be protected.
Tens of thousands of people died at the hands of these American-funded mercinaries in this proxy war of terror and the country was ruined. Bridges destroyed, infrastructure rendered useless. Nicaragua decided to do the right thing and took the issue to the World Court, where they presented their case. The World Court accepted the case, ruled in their favour and ordered the US to terminate the crime & pay massive reparations.
The United States dismissed the ruling with contempt. Nicaragua took the issue to the UN Security Council, where the resolution was vitoed. The issue went to the General Assembly twice. The first time, only three countries voted against it. The second, only two. Both times, the USA vitoed the motion.
The United States responded immediately by escilating the war. Ther mercinaries were officially given orders - attack soft targets including agricultural co-ops and medical clinics, and avoid the Nicaraguan army. With the aid of the advanced communications equiptment which the United States supplied the Terrorist Mercinaries with, this was no problem.
International pressure from the United States meant Nicaragua couldn't obtain any international support. In spite of their World Court win, it's thousands of people lost, and its country crippled, and the blatant attacks on its softest civilian targets, Nicaragua had nowhere to go. They surrendered to the American's wishes.
The immense power of American propoganda was the New York Times headlines read "United in Joy", when the uniting was done more in reluctance.
One has to wonder what the truth is behind the headline "War on Terror"
Osama bin Laden has no less of a reason to attack the World Trade Centre than the United States had to attack Nicaragua.
USA and Britain supported Saddam Hussain throughout his worst attrocities - including the gassing of the Kurds.
This is what the Islamic world who is against the United States remembers, while the western world would like to forget it.
A lot of the coalition "fighting terrorism" consists of nations conducting terrorist campaigns, including Algeria, China, the United States and Russia.
The United States US has just appointed an ambassador to UN to lead the war against Terror - John Negroponte. At one stage, he was the US ambassador in Honduras - local supervisor of the terrorist war against honduras (which in many respects, was very similar to the war against Nicaragua in the types of attrocities committed)
The only difference between Terrorists and Counter-Terrorists is which side you are on.
Nelson Mandela's African National Congress had an arm known as "Umkomte we Sizwe" (the Spear of a Nation) which was a terrorist organisation. Now they are leading South Africa in what is revered by the west as South Africa's enlightened era.
The French Resistance was a terrorist organisation who fought against another terrorist organisation; Hitler's SS.
I'm not trying to say Al-Qa'eda is right. All I'm saying is that their position is obviously justifiable, and we're not getting the full story in mainstream media.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Robert Margolis
Joined: Nov 15, 2000
Posts: 480 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 46
Country: United States
Province/State: Florida
City: Palm Beach Gardens
|
UN needs "Ganas"
December 27, 2001 - 01:04 AM
|
|
It is true that the current UN does OK at handling refugees, immunization, and sponsoring research. They are not ready (nor would ANY country agree) to have a global armed service.
As far as corruption, I wonder sometimes if global expectations have helped foster these problems. If the UN is always considered a worthless talk shop, it will live up to that expectation (i.e., no ganas). I am not saying that the UN would solve all our problems tomorrow, however, we should be thinking of what roles it can EVOLVE into and ways to get there.
Meanwhile, I agree that the US has to hunt down Al-Quaeda as we cannot wait for more buildings (or shoes) to explode.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Robert Margolis
Joined: Nov 15, 2000
Posts: 480 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 46
Country: United States
Province/State: Florida
City: Palm Beach Gardens
|
Dosage and duration
December 27, 2001 - 08:43 AM
|
|
Pred -
My only thought here is that the world Al-Quaeda wants to build is one that most TIG members would not want to live in.
Perhaps terrorism and war could be compared to chemotherapy: in the right doses for a while it can sometimes cure, but too much and for the wrong reason and it becomes worse than the original problem.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Mike
Joined: Aug 31, 2001
Posts: 369 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 25
Country: Australia
Province/State: Western Australia
City: Perth
|
and the doctor?
December 27, 2001 - 08:54 AM
|
|
and what of the doctor administering it?
Thats the role America gets to play in most international events. It gets to be the doctor providing the economic cure, but gets to charge a hell of a lot at the end.
- - -
Pred.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Robert Margolis
Joined: Nov 15, 2000
Posts: 480 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 46
Country: United States
Province/State: Florida
City: Palm Beach Gardens
|
Dr Bin Laden
December 27, 2001 - 09:05 AM
|
|
I don't think I want served by the Al-Quaeda HMO either. :-)
We gone over this part before, but most likely China or Russia would not do much different (maybe even worse).
It would be ideal if there were some kind of international force, but most people I know freak out when they think of a REAL UN army (black helicopters, trilateral commission, Rockefellers, bigfoot, etc). I do not hear ANY country advocating it.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Mike
Joined: Aug 31, 2001
Posts: 369 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 25
Country: Australia
Province/State: Western Australia
City: Perth
|
solutions. solutions. solutions.
December 28, 2001 - 09:15 AM
|
|
David.
The alternative the U.S could make wouldnt mean it would have to pull-out of Afghanistan. Nor does it mean it has to stop looking for Al-Qaeda.
The problem is, there IS a better way, America just wont change its attitude because its people thirst for blood.
I believe you when you say America is being more honest to the media, Ive listened to the media releases from Ari Fleischer, and some from Rumsfield and they are being rather blunt and forthcoming in recent developments.
While being forthcoming is welcome, it doesnt help solve the problem of America inciting the hatred that it did in the years of lead-up for September 11th.
As I stated above, America has attributed to many terrorist regimes in order to secure its own interests in whatever region was order of the day.
If only America would listen to its own academics, to the minorities of people out there who have reasoned over the issues thought about in peoples minds from September 11th and have come to conclude, that there was something America could have done.
Im not sure that David understands how the UN is corrupted. Its because of the influence America has over it. I know that seems a big statement but to a degree its true, when the most powerful country in the world has vetoe power over everyone else, wouldnt you play dirty to save your pacific island from sinking because a really big country who has it all wont stop burning coal!
Wouldnt you play dirty when the worlds most powerful nation with the vetoe power to overrule you is selling weapons, equipment and even training to your next door neighbour?
Wouldnt you?
I would.
I do listen and research the issues i write about.
My big solution is for America to get rid of all its foreign policy and start again. This time with the idea that though it has power, it also has a responsibility to manage its affairs competantly, and with respect to other nations and their peoples cultures, beliefs and economic situation.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Robert Margolis
Joined: Nov 15, 2000
Posts: 480 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 46
Country: United States
Province/State: Florida
City: Palm Beach Gardens
|
The Duck's Name was Harold
January 5, 2002 - 01:31 AM
|
|
I think all of us react more when "one of our own" is hurt or killed versus on of "them". The title comes from a Far Side cartoon of an airplane crash and a reporter who was a duck quickly mentions about the hundred or so humans then goes into detail over the duck who was sucked into the engine. A positive possibility with globalization is that we will come to realize that "them" is truly ourselves.
By the way, I have visited Idaho. Got to see both an extinct volcano and old nuclear airplane engines. Interesting place.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Justin Feltis
Joined: Jan 5, 2002
Posts: 1 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Tongue-tied
User is
Offline
Country: United States
Province/State: Idaho
City: Pocatello
|
Re: Terrorism. American Style.
January 5, 2002 - 07:16 AM
|
|
Gee, I bet it's pretty easy to make such haughty statements when you don't have to worry about getting killed by anthrax or be torched by jet fuel or crushed by tons of concrete and steel. How nice it must be to view an issue from the outside. *sigh* You aren't worth the effort to talk to.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Nick Moraitis
Joined: Nov 18, 2000
Posts: 34 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Talkative
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 29
Country: Australia
Province/State: New South Wales
City: Sydney
|
how does it look from within?
January 5, 2002 - 07:38 AM
|
|
psych - so, what does it feel like for you?
i think pred was putting forward a honestly held opinion.
he may be wrong in some way. he may also be right in some way. it is also a view i know many people in america (and in New York) share.
i was in new york on sept 11th, and personally i don't think that makes me any more competant to discuss how to move forward with our world in an ethical way than the next person. in fact, i think being there and experiencing stuff clouds my judgement. i mean, do you think that in a murder trial, it would serve justice better if all jurors had recently lost a relative to murder? An external perspective can sometimes help, rather than hinder.
Looking forward to hearing your own thoughts and opinions...
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Brent
Joined: Jul 10, 2001
Posts: 17 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Talkative
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 28
Country: Australia
Province/State: Victoria
City: Melbourne
|
Re: Terrorism. American Style.
January 5, 2002 - 08:48 AM
|
|
Originally posted by Psychologix
Gee, I bet it's pretty easy to make such haughty statements when you don't have to worry about getting killed by anthrax or be torched by jet fuel or crushed by tons of concrete and steel. How nice it must be to view an issue from the outside. *sigh* You aren't worth the effort to talk to.
Gee, I bet it's terrible living in a country where all the bad stuff in the world happens - or at least just all the important bad stuff.
It's easy to make such haughty statements when you don't have to worry about bombs dropping on you, famine, being unable to get water, being too poor to feed your family etc etc etc.
Idaho - I don't know my American geography well, but that's a few thousand miles from New York, isn't it?
And there haven't been any anthrax attacks in Idaho, right?
And I believe the chances of the average american getting killed by an act of terrorism are so remote that you're more likely to win the lottery.
I doubt Idaho is classed as a level-1 terrorist target, so you're probably more likely to choke on an Idaho potato!
Terrorism. - Potato Style.
Guerilla Vegetables! :-P
How nice it must be to view the issue from so close. :-P
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Simon Charles
Joined: Jan 8, 2002
Posts: 20 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Talkative
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 27
Country: Canada
Province/State: Manitoba
City: Winnipeg
|
Re: Terrorism. American Style.
January 9, 2002 - 05:22 AM
|
|
I completely agree with Pred. I would like to say that the only way that anti-American sentiment in the Muslim world can be ruled out is out its CAUSE! One of the main things is America's constant military support of Israel. Another cause is the presence of American soldiers in Saudi Arabia. Americans argue that these are strategic holdings, well, unless you want to get bombarded by young Muslim radicals, and believe me, if you think you are doing anything by eliminating Al-Qaeda's Afghanistan bases, you are just scratching the surface. Al-Qaeda uses the cell system, where the members of the organization literally don't know everyone in the organization. Therefore, it is impossible to completely eliminate it. Hell, if the states got its hands on Osama it wouldn't make a difference. It would only inspire a whole new wave of young Osama's. The American's pose as a just country fighting for peace is not fooling anyone.
Another example of America's hypocritical foreign policy. When General Pervez Musharraf came to power in the coup in Pakistan, the Americans cut all aid to Pakistan and basically left the country economically out of a limb. Well, as soon as the Americans needed them in their war against terror all the economic sanctions disappeared and Pakistan is basically being flooded with American aid.
This 'War against Terror' is such a sham. Pred gave examples of Nicaragua, but what about Vietnam? Where the states supported a ruthless regime. Or what about the Congo? Or Cuba before Castro? The list is endless.
However, my history teacher told me that we cannot argue the fact that America is the only superpower in the world and we cannot change that, no matter how much we rant and rave about their hypocritical policies. Very depressing eh? 
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Mike
Joined: Aug 31, 2001
Posts: 369 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 25
Country: Australia
Province/State: Western Australia
City: Perth
|
i go away for a little holiday and look what happens.
January 9, 2002 - 09:22 AM
|
|
Psychologix.
Nice to see you on the boards. I'll give you a little introduction to them. Dont rant on your first post.
Another thing, dont rant about America and how wrong I, and many others, are to despise some of the things it does on your first post.
Brent was right. Like most people in the Western World, it is hard for them to even comprehend what its like in countrires like Afghanistan.
Take a look at a photo-essay. One that doent have American flags in it. Time has one. It shows a man being shot because he was a Taliban. It shows children watching. His children.
Now imagine you were that child, that was your father. He only joined the Taliban because they were in power and were the most capable of providing you with family.
You may say - but they hate america! - but america made them hate america. America turned its back. As it will do again. and again.
Only somewhere else. Some other time.
Deal with it. Flag hugger.
- - -
Rob.
Ive heard a lot about how globalisation will make us realise that 'them' is 'us.' Unfortunately, this raises the age old question.
Does the end justify the means.
- - -
Pred.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Robert Margolis
Joined: Nov 15, 2000
Posts: 480 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 46
Country: United States
Province/State: Florida
City: Palm Beach Gardens
|
Globalization is NOT Imperialism
January 9, 2002 - 10:41 AM
|
|
Pred -
I do not consider globalization a one-way street for the West. The ability to connect people, ideas, and resources has the best chance to expand opportunity for all. Certainly, globalization must be monitored and regulated where needed. Also, globalization will now be slower with all the extra security (not just in the US). It is not the 19th century imperialism where all the resources are merely stripped from other nations and sent to the "mother country". Standards of living have greatly improved in many developing countries as a result of globalization.
I think the realizations that come from globalization are one of the side effects. The main reason there are so many in favor of globalization is the economic opportunity. Other side effects may include a "wealth effect" where populations begin to think of such things as the environment once their immediate economic needs are resolved.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Mike
Joined: Aug 31, 2001
Posts: 369 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 25
Country: Australia
Province/State: Western Australia
City: Perth
|
its nice.
January 10, 2002 - 01:11 AM
|
|
Its nice to know a history teacher sees things the same way i do.
For some reason, i think of George W. Bush on the Titanic. sailing towards the iceberg. bragging that its unsinkable.
I imagine America as the Titanic. He is the captain.
And we all know what happens to the Captain when the ship goes down.
There was an article in todays 'West Australian' (but written by an unnamed Reuters writer) , it was written fairly well, and outlined that America was immersing itself in what it had done before September 11th. There was just an eerie feeling about everything.
The tax cut. education. Sports. Its all the same. Again.
Oh well. The ships unsinkable anyway.
- - -
Pred.
EDIT: Rob. Globalisation is a long way from completion, there are certainly a lot who have benefitted the most from globalisation. But at what cost to those who did not, and who will benefit the most from the further globalisation efforts to consume the world in the coming decades.
Its whoever has the market share.
The unsinkable boat.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
|
Display posts from:
|
|
Home
Community
