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Luke Lieberman
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Iran's "preconditions"
January 28, 2009 - 02:12 PM
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It seems asking Iran to unclench its fist is asking too much - they are determined to take the region into war.
I ask you, If Obama is willing to talk without preconditions - why is Iran refusing him? And why demand an 'apology' like an immature child? Doesn't Iran have things to 'apologize' for? what is this nonsense?
I think they will find that Obama is not going to be pushed around - and if they miss this opportunity for dialogue they best remember it when the bombs start to fall...
"In response to the administration's suggestion of direct talks, Javanfekr said Iran had its own conditions.
"We are ready for talks with some preconditions ... including ending America's military presence in Iraq and Afghanistan," he said and repeated the demand for an apology."
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/22/20090128/twl-uk-iran-obama-nuclear-interview-sb-bd5ae06.html
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ssamida
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Re: Iran's
January 29, 2009 - 10:32 AM
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American must apology not only to Iran ,but to all the world for the acts she did and still doing.
maybe it should start by indians who were diabolised by hollywwood and exterminated by the yankees.
or to vietnam ,north korea , serbia , panama ,afghanistan and Irak .
your leaders are just ASSASSINS.
But the question is :
will the apoligies be accepted !
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Alex Rhoden
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Re: Iran's "preconditions"
January 29, 2009 - 10:50 AM
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SSamida makes a valid point, The United States was directly responsible for radicalizing Iran. The U.S. destabilized a democratically elected government in Iran and installed the Shah. The Shah was an American puppet who allowed western oil interests into the country in the 1960's.The Shah ordered his death squads with the blessing of the U.S. government.All political dissent was crushed until the Iranian revolution took the country back from this tyrant. The U.S. has been involved in this sort of ugly, despicable bahavior in many other parts of the world. I hope President Obama is familiar with America's Foreign policy history. The U.S. government owes the whole world an apology for a litany of actions.We export toxic debt,financial crisis and endless war.
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gzusbmine
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Re: Iran's "preconditions"
January 29, 2009 - 11:10 AM
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What did I say...Obama will have us loving our slavery... I mean servitude...and we (i.e. the US) and the rest of the world will lovingly follow after him into yet another war. You see Bush purposely did a bad job, so that the next president coming in would appear as a saint. War/Bombs, Iraq; War/Bombs, Pakistan; War/Bombs, Iran...Obama is very Bushy...he just happens to be so full of sugar that the poison is easier to swallow.
Be prepared for the greatest deceit...open your eyes, the agenda is the same, there is no real party difference.
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Iran's "preconditions"
January 29, 2009 - 12:36 PM
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sigh... librals can be so naive
"The Shah ordered his death squads with the blessing of the U.S. government.All political dissent was crushed until the Iranian revolution took the country back from this tyrant."
Alex - what are there in Iran NOW? Under this current regeime that "liberated" Iran?
What do they do to political dissent?
How many professors have been arrested?
How many newspapers shut down and censored?
Please Alex - explain to me why the only Muslim woman to ever win the Nobel Peace Prize is currently under House arrest in Iran?
You do realize that under the Shah there were about 300-700 political prisoners - and now there are over 10,000 under this regieme.
What do they do to homosexuals in Iran?
Can you wear what you want? say what you want?
why are thousands or reform candidates prevented from running for office by the Guardian council?
Such hypocracy - if you cared about things like political suppression - you would not be defending Ahmadinejad.
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gzusbmine
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Re: Iran's "preconditions"
January 29, 2009 - 12:58 PM
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Luke, I think your comprehension level is limited or you are reading what you want to read. I hardly believe that Alex is saying he is supporting the current government of Iran. He is merely saying that anytime the U.S. government gets involved with "helping a country achieve democracy," the U.S. only puts in a worse, more oppressive government. The question should be does the U.S. government do this ignorantly or do they have some greater purpose? The U.S. lost control/influence over Iran and is looking to replace Iran's government. Its not for the betterment of the Iranian people, but for the betterment of U.S.'s ulterior motives that the U.S. acts out against Iran. Open your eyes, why after we have gone into Afghanistan has opium trade risen to astronomical levels?
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Alex Rhoden
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Re: Iran's "preconditions"
January 29, 2009 - 05:55 PM
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Gzusbmine understood exactly what I said. Luke, You misunderstood me once again. I am NOT defending Ahmadinejad. I am talking about CIA "Blowback". The CIA term first used in March 1954 in a recently declassified report on the 1953 CIA operation to overthrow the democratically elected government of Mohammed Mossadegh in IRAN. It is a metaphor for the unintended consequences of the U.S. government's international activities that have been kept secret from the American people. Installing the Shah in power brought twenty-five years of tyranny and repression to the Iranian people and elicited the Ayatollah Khomeini's revolution. The staff of the American embassy in Teheran was held hostage for more than a year. This misguided "covert operation" of the US government helped convince many capable people throughout the Islamic world that the United States was an implacable enemy.
The pattern has become all too familiar. Osama bin Laden, the leading suspect as mastermind behind the carnage of September 11, is no more (or less) "evil" than his fellow creations of our CIA: Manuel Noriega, former commander of the Panama Defense Forces in the 1980's, or Iraq's Saddam Hussein, whom we armed and backed so long as he was at war with Khomeini's Iran and whose people we have bombed and starved for a decade in an incompetent effort to get rid of him. These men were once listed as "assets" of America's CIA.They were all on the CIA Payroll. As an American, I am ashamed of these facts.
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Iran's "preconditions"
January 29, 2009 - 10:39 PM
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"Luke, I think your comprehension level is limited"
Gzus - I would ask you to leave aside personal attacks and deal with substance
"anytime the U.S. government gets involved with "helping a country achieve democracy," the U.S. only puts in a worse, more oppressive government."
You mean besides Germany, Japan, South Korea & Bosnia.
Perhaps you need to read a little more history.
"Open your eyes, why after we have gone into Afghanistan has opium trade risen to astronomical levels?"
Because Bush foolishly invaded Iraq instead of properly dealing with Afghanistan.
But it is absurd to suggest that the current democratically elected government in Afghanistan is "more oppressive" then the Taliban.
Hamid Karzi is no Mullah Omar.
You are female Gzus - I suggest you try living under the Taliban.
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Iran's "preconditions"
January 29, 2009 - 10:40 PM
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"I am NOT defending Ahmadinejad"
Just saying that Obama owes him an apology.
What you are suggesting is that Ahmadinejad has a right to demand an apology for things of which he himself is more guilty then anyone else.
Certainly Ahmadinejad has suppressed more political dissent in Iran then Obama has.
What if Obama said that he would not talk to Ahmadinejad until he apologized for calling the Holocaust a 'big lie', hosting a cartoon conference to mock the tragedy and a conference starring David Duke to deny the genocide -
What if Obama said first Ahmadinejad must apologize for supporting Hezbullah and Hamas?
Would you think it wise? Or do you think at this point it is wiser to act like ADULTS - let bygones be bygones and enguage in constructive dialogue?
And yet - with the world on the brink of World War 3 - Ahmadinejad refuses diplomacy like a petulant child.
He will not speak to Obama until Obama kisses his ring?
I am well aware of Iranian history - I have many Pursian friends - sitting next to me know as I am in my Torts class -
many of their families fled Iran to escape political persecution. Some still have relatives in Iranian prisons for no other reason then supporting women's rights or being teachers who read the "wrong" books to their class.
I ask again - how is it not hypocritical for Ahmadinejad to ask an apology for exactly the same things he himself is guilty of?
How does he not resemble Bush in refusing dialogue until the other side abases itself in front of him?
Here we have Obama stretching out his hand - and Ahmadinejad spitting in his face out of pure pride.
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Alex Rhoden
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Re: Iran's "preconditions"
January 30, 2009 - 09:24 AM
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luke wrote:
I am well aware of Iranian history - I have many Pursian friends - sitting next to me know as I am in my Torts class - I think you added a bit too much rum in your tortoni.You should pay attention to your tortoni, they need constant stirring otherwise they lose their creamy texture. My sister in law told me about Pursians from the planet Pursia in the andromeda galaxy. We are discussing "Persia". I am saying that the United States needs to realize that it has lost all moral and ethical credibility in its MiddleEast foreign Policy. You should Read my TIG Blog on "Changing America's Foreign Policy" and you can become acquainted with the reality of the situation.
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Iran's "preconditions"
January 30, 2009 - 12:53 PM
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I think you added a bit too much rum in your tortoni
"torts" is an area of law - I go to law school at night. There are about 8 Persian kids in my class and about half of those were born in Iran. The rest are second generation.
There are more Persians living in Southern California then anywhere else is the world outside Iran itself.
Tomorrow night I am going to my friend ms. Shakoori's party and I'll be surrounded by Persians - all of whom have a keener understanding of Iran's history and current situation then you do.
focusing on a spelling error is not debate - it just means you can't debate substance.
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gzusbmine
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Re: Iran's "preconditions"
January 30, 2009 - 03:20 PM
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Luke, do some real homework, find out from other resources beside the mass media propaganda about the state of the Afghanistan and its people. They have a puppet elected government installed by the U.S. that can't protect its own people against the war lords there. Sure the Taliban are "gone," but the war lords have risen back up to rob the women from their villages and turn them into sex slaves. Their basic infrastructure destroyed by US and the Taliban is gone. Where is the money we promised to help them rebuild? Instead, all we have done is create permanent military installations for ourselves. Here are videos about the reality of Afghanistan from its people. Believe me, I think you will here a few say that they are no better off then they were under the religious suppression of the Taliban. Hey look, if you don't listen to them, don't act like you know that they are better off.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yFiHkhv-UE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO7Zpm6mySo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwABiYJ0koQ
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Iran's "preconditions"
January 31, 2009 - 04:38 AM
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"Luke, do some real homework, find out from other resources beside the mass media propaganda about the state of the Afghanistan and its people. They have a puppet elected government installed by the U.S. that can't protect its own people against the war lords there."
I know it is easier to dismiss those with whom you disagree as unlearned rather then debate substance - or further still try to understand their views.
But you have no idea where I get my information.
Instead you, in your learned 23 years presume to lecture me on the ways of the world.
How much have you traveled outside the United States?
Warlords have run Afghanistan for hundreds of years - NATO is not going to wave a wand and change this.
Nor is it reasonable to expect it will suddenly be a wonderful land of law and order.
It would/will take more then a decade of serious investment in education and infrastructure to really change Afghansitan.
Bush was not wise enough to try this - we will see if Obama is.
But really, the US did not go into Afghanistan for the sake of the Afghanis - nor did it really claim to - this was a side effect.
We went in to deal with Al Qaeda after they had attacked two of our major cities.
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Alex Rhoden
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Re: Iran's "preconditions"
February 1, 2009 - 08:37 AM
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Luke, There are a few individuals in the world who share an attribute with George Bush. That is, the unwillingness to change even when confronted with the facts. Please don't be one of them. Luke, You and I have had many current events debates regarding Israel's influence on Americas policies regarding Iran and Palestine. Illegal occupation,Illegal use of weapons of mass destruction on Palestinian civilians and the horrific massacre of Palestinian women and children. All this made possible with Americas contribution of over 3 billion dollars per year in weapons to Israel. Ayman and other TIG members have shown you documented facts of these attrocities. Please read the Harvard University study on my TIG blog and then ask yourself why you refuse to admit the truth to yourself?? Here Is a recent news article: AFTER THE GAZA WAR
Israel Has Fewer Friends Than Ever, Even In America.. By Rod Nordland of NEWSWEEK Published Jan 24, 2009. Israel has never been more isolated. Its best friend, the United States, had vetoed 41 UN Security Council resolutions condemning Israel in the past three decades, but was about to vote for the Jan 8 resolution denouncing the attack on Gaza when President Bush intervened, at the behest of Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert. Still, in the face of unprecedented global criticism, the U.S. didn't dare veto, but merely abstained. Europe and Latin America erupted in near unanimous outrage over Gaza, with fits of anti-Semitic violence in France, Sweden and Belgium.
Amnesty International has accused Israel of war crimes (using white phosphorus against civilians), and the UN secretary-general was unusually outspoken. After Israel bombed five U.N. compounds, Ban Ki-moon called the attack "A heartbreaking loss of innocent life … outrageous and unacceptable.".
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Iran's "preconditions"
February 4, 2009 - 12:08 AM
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"the unwillingness to change even when confronted with the facts."
I have presented you with both facts and reason and you haven't changed your stubborn stance one bit -
so right back at ya!
You are acting like "Israel is evil" is a "fact" - as opposed to your opinion.
You also refuse to acknowledge any of the facts I have presented you with regarding Iran.
the pot should not call the kettle black.
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