« 回到论坛
版主：
AminaYasmine, Liamjod, mnopq
 作者 |
 发布
|
 |
|
Ansari, Omar Mansoor
连接： Sep 29, 2000
邮件 10
帖子等级
说话温和
用户是：
下线
性别和年龄： 男性, 31
国家：Afghanistan
|
cool, Luke
January 8, 2004 - 01:14 AM
|
|
now going to bed, catch you guys tomorrow
|
|
回到顶部 |
链接这个地址
|
|
Michael Newton-McLaughlin
连接： Dec 2, 2001
邮件 10
帖子等级
说话温和
用户是：
下线
性别和年龄： 男性, 26
国家：United States
Province/State: California
城市: Berkeley
|
The Arabs are dancing on CNN again!!!! (shut up Rummy)
January 8, 2004 - 01:18 AM
|
|
- I was going to make a comment on generalizing, but many of you already did so - and that covered my thoughts. The idea that 'most Arabs hate the west' is certainly a slippery slope - i think most poignantly addressed by Nick in this thread. Also - this is the third time I've heard a recomendation to read Paris 1919, so I'll check it out.
- Looking at history is a great way to do things. However, the author seems to us many terms like 'backward' that are really not analyzed, but accepted. Is it ok for us to accept a term like backward - presumably negative- without really any contemplation of what that MEANS?
- 'Facism' is done differently every where - the old style perhaps exists in the middle east, the newer version here. Facism seems to revolve around the idea that private property is God, and must be protected at all costs. Usually thats done through autocratic rule. The U.S. has done a good job in just indoctrinating us against ourselves.. "If those in charge of our society - politicians, corporate executives, and owners of press and television - can dominate our ideas, they will be secure in their power. They will not need soldiers patrolling the streets to control us. We will control ourselves." - Howard Zinn
- I certainly agree with jacob, Raymond, a few others who have mentioned foreign (namely British, French, German or U.S.) intervention or colonizations. This brings me back to the article: "But since the 1950s, both the dominating and dominated initiated an attempt to build a new world, where competition (which is part of human nature) gradually moved from the battlefields to the realm of creation, economy and trade."
First off - I can buy that competition is part of 'human nature' - but then, this seems to assume that any level of competition is within human nature. Sorry, but there seems to be a point when (most) of us agree that there are levels of competition that are dangerous to all of us. However, this is not profitable, and those with the power and ability to stop or go forward usually are blind to the stop signs put before them. The author would like us to buy into the idea that competition through avarice and greed (i.e. Smith's individual man who operates on an onotogenic, self-serving principle). What the author wants all of us to beleive - and this is of course my humble opinion- is that the choices we make are really autonomous to others, and that if we do compete and are self-serving, then we reach some type of equilibria and perfect competition - where everyone benefits. The problems with this are numerous and outspoken - and I don't want to turn this into an economic debate. I only wanted to point out tha t to accept the author's argument, you have to have contributed significantly to capitalisms deeds.
A few of those deeds contradict the author's idea that we went from the battle fields into 'the realm of creation, economy and trade.' Aye, I would say two world wars, about 49 wars of struggle and independence and probably about 35 wars of aggression in the 20th century, combined with the 'intelligence community' realizing their power to create mayhem in the background was INDEED moving us from the battle grounds into the scientists lab. The problem with this argument, is because it is false. Humans have, for as long as I can recall in my world history classes, worked hard to create things that would 'better themselves' while at the sametime advancing those inventions that would also destroy one another. Now, I do not doubt that the rate at which this technology and creation was accomplished is directly related to the industrial revolution or our competition. however: what was/is the motive, and the (destructive) process that occured, and STILL OCCURS today?
- Another point on the article. "Let us stop for a minute and ask ourselves, Arabs and most Muslims, what did we offer for ourselves and the rest of the world, since the beginning of the industrial revolution to this day, from human sciences and inventions or any other added value to civilization? Unfortunately, the answer is: almost nothing!!".
The author, seemingly a bought and sold neo-liberal, takes the view that in order to contribute something to the world, it needs to have significantly been for consumption or help the 19th-20th century business 'industrualizing worlds' adopt the ideology of free trade, or perhaps been a player in large scale exploitation of labor in order to extract and create. Obviously the late Edward Said, who wrote 'Orientalism' (http://www.emory.edu/ENGLISH/Bahri/Orientalism.html) would disagree from the author's viewpoint. Again, I reiterate my earlier point: perhaps Arabs did not release a new Hummer line this past year... a few of us might be thankfull for that. Or rather, the author's analysis is confined to only a few points, and is rather narrow (and shallow)
Alright... in response to CaptainChurch1 - "The second the USA stops supporting Israel, we are goners (because our own problems would sink us if we didn't benefit God's future plan in Israel, because of the Jews)." Wait a moment. If we stopped sneding billions of dollars to Israel, perfectly capable of supporting itself, and stopped sending military weapons to them, that are used to enforce a brutal occupation on mostly innocent people, somehow the U.S. would fall??? I beg to differ. Many of you would disagree with me that we should not stop aiding Israel, but few of you would agree, I am sure, that Israel (or the US) would fall and die because of it. I usually do not ignore people so lightly, but this person's ignorance shines right through.
Luke - "I think their glory days are in decline, and they resent the US for being the new world power." I am not so sure you can really make it this black and white. Democracy and Free Trade are just words when you're fighting to live... I think that perhaps rather than try to wave some abstract thought about reminiscence on 'glory days' you might look for concrete examples of hatred and see where they extend from. You claim that this may be on a subconcious level. Well, would it be fair of me to generalize that jews have a subconcious aversion to Arabs (and most of Europe) for trying to ostricize and kick us all out? Perhaps what you claim is there, but man, I'd really like to see you give two shits about a country's past when you are presently starving.
Omar - "Even if Arabs hate the west it does not mean that Arabs hate the western citizens, but they hate its mentally ill rulers and their dirty politics which is the foundation of state terrorism and alliance of aggression and extremism."
I would agree, but only with the caviot that 'dirty politics' is not just a western thing - but extends every where. Rarely does 'power' or the people that yield it do the right thing for those that do not. In my study of history, it is the people that must take the power into their own hands in one way or another. Of course, when large groups of people want they can certainly force the establishment to do things - and luckily in some places of the world, the response has not been to kill those people so readilly.
SuzyQ - "We are on high terrist attack, we have been for some weeks now. So explain to me why they want to attack and kill us." Wait a moment. All of a sudden 'ORANGE ALERT' means 'watch for the Arabs dancing! (Rumsfeld)'? I think the US propaganda machine has done a good job of making sure that every time some ass hole gets on TV and says we are going on a 'high threat of terrorist attack' everyone looks harder at Arabs/muslims who pass by them. Suzy - can you explain the rest of your post? I was having a hard time understanding 'the US trying to create peace in Iraq'. I sort of feel that that objective was thrown to the way side when we, you know, bombed the hell out of it.
|
|
回到顶部 |
链接这个地址
|
|
SLOVENC
连接： Nov 25, 2003
邮件 14
帖子等级
说话温和
用户是：
下线
国家：Slovenia
|
Re: Why do Arabs hate the West?
January 8, 2004 - 01:58 AM
|
|
Why do all ppl think that those thate hate the politics of the US hate the US?!? not only the Arabs hate their politics! there are lots of other countries even western that don't like the arogance of the US politics! But that doesn't mean that they hate the USA so please don't talk like that!
|
|
回到顶部 |
链接这个地址
|
|
Saladin
连接： Oct 1, 2002
邮件 34
帖子等级
爱说话的
用户是：
下线
 虚拟义务工作者:
性别和年龄： 男性, 25
国家：United Kingdom
Province/State: Redbridge
城市: Ilford
|
VETOES
January 8, 2004 - 02:13 AM
|
|
Hi all,
maybe the theme's title should be converted to "Why Arabs hate the US foreign Policy?"
As me for example,
you can find find some justifications in these statistics from the link http://www.al-bushra.org/palestine/veto.html
Mideast-Related Vetoes
March 28, 2001
THE VETOES
Of the 248 vetoes recorded by the five Security Council members since the inception of the United Nations, the United States has cast 73 - the vast majority of them related to the Middle East.
Here is a list of the US vetoes, in addition to 25 US abstentions on S. C resolutions that are condemning
Israel alone which are 25 out of 71.
While the vetos are 38.
Vetoes cast by the United States to Shield Israel from criticism by the UN Security Council
Until the Nixon administration, the United States had never employed its veto power in the UN Security Council. The first U. S veto was cast on March 17, 1970, over Southern Rhodesia. The second veto came two years later when
Washington sought to protect Israel from a resolution condemning Israel for one of its attacks on its neighbors. Since then, the United has cast its veto a total of 38 times to shield Israel from Council draft resolutions that condemned, deplored, denounced, affirmed, endorsed, called upon and urged Israel to obey the world body.
1. 10 Sep. 1972 Condemned Israel's attacks against southern Lebanon and Syria. Vote: 13 to 1 with 1 abstention
2. 26 Jul. 1973 Affirmed the rights of the Palestinian people to self determination, statehood and equal protections. Vote: 13 to 1 with China absent
3. 08 Dec. 1975 Condemned Israel air strike and attacks in southern Lebanon and its murder of innocent civilians.
Vote: 13 to 1 with 1 abstention
4. 26 Jan. 1976 Called for self-determination of Palestinian People. Vote: 9 to 1 with 3 abstentions
5. 25 Mar. 1976 Deplored Israel's alteration of the status of Jerusalem, which is recognized as an international city by most of world nations and the United Nations. Vote 14 to 1
6. 29 Jun. 1976 Affirmed the Inalienable rights of the Palestinian People. Vote 10 to 1 with 4 abstention
7. 30 Apr. 1980 Endorsed self-determination of Palestinian People. Vote 10 to 1 with 4 abstention
8. 20 Jan. 1982 Demands Israel's withdrawal from the Golan Heights. Vote 10 to 1 with 4 abstention
9. 01 Apr. 1982 Condemned Israel mistreatment of Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and Gaza strip and its refusal to abide by the Geneva Conventions Protocols of civilized nations. Vote: 14 to 1
10. 02 Apr. 1982 Condemned an Israeli soldier who shot 11 Moslem worshipers in the Haram al Sharif near Al Aqsa mosque in the Old City of Jerusalem. Vote: 14 to 1
11. 08 Jun. 1982 Urged sanctions against Israel if it did not withdraw from its invasion of Lebanon. Vote: 14 to 1
12. 26 Jun. 1982 Urged sanctions against Israel if it did not withdraw from its invasion of Beirut, Lebanon. Vote: 14 to 1
13. 06 Aug. 1982 Urged cut-off economic aid to Israel if it refused to withdraw from its occupation of Lebanon. Vote: 11 to 1 with 3 abstention
14. 02 Aug. 1983 Condemned continued Israeli settlements in occupied Palestinian territories of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, denouncing them as an obstacle to peace. Vote: 13 to 1 with 3 abstention
15. 06 Sep. 1984 Deplored Israel's brutal massacre of Arabs in Lebanon and urged its withdrawal. Vote: 14 to 1
16. 12 Mar. 1985 Condemned Israeli brutality in southern Lebanon and denounces Israeli "Iron Fist" policy of repression. Vote: 11 to 1 with 3 abstentions
17. 13 Sep. 1985 Denounced Israel's violations of human rights in the occupied territories. Vote 10 to 1 with 4 abstentions
18. 17 Jan. 1986 Strongly deplored Israel's violence in southern Lebanon.Vote: 11 to 1 with 3 abstentions
19. 30 Jan. 1986 Deplored Israel's activities in the occupied Arab East Jerusalem, which threaten the sanctity of Muslim holy sites. Vote: 13 to 1 with 1 abstention
20. 06 Feb. 1986 Condemned Israel's hijacking of a Libyan airplane on Feb. 4, Vote: 10 to 1 with 1 abstention
21. 18 Jan. 1988 Strongly deplored Israeli attacks against Lebanon and its measures and practices against the civilian population of Lebanon. Vote: 13 to 1 with 1 abstention
22. 01 Feb. 1988 Called on Israel to abandon its policies against Palestinian uprising that violate the rights of occupied Palestinians, to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention and formalize a leading role for the U.N. in future peace negotiations. Vote: 14 to 1
23. 15 Apr. 1988 Urged Israel to accept deported Palestinians, condemned Israel's shooting of civilians, called on Israel to uphold the Fourth Geneva Convention and called for a peace settlement under U.N. auspices. Vote: 14 to 1
24. 10 May 1988 Condemned Israel's May 2 incursion into Lebanon. Vote: 14 to 1
25. 14 Dec. 1988 Strongly deplored Israel's Dec. 9 commando raids on Lebanon. Vote: 14 to 1
26. 17 Feb 19.89 Strongly deplored Israel's repression of the Palestinian uprising and called on Israel to respect the human rights of the Palestinians. Vote: 14 to 1
27. 09 Jun. 1989 Strongly deplored Israel's violation of the human rights of the Palestinians. Vote: 14 to 1
28. 07 Nov. 1989 Demanded Israel return property confiscated from Palestinians during a tax protest and allow a fact finding mission to observe Israel's crackdown on the Palestinian uprising. Vote 14 to 1
29. 31 May 1990 Called for a fact-finding mission on abuses against Palestinians in Israeli occupied lands. Vote 14 to 1 . United States casts the lone veto to block a Security Council fact-finding mission to report on abuses of Palestinians in land Israel captured in war.
30. 04 Apr. 1992 Condemned Israel for the killing of four Palestinians and injuring 50 more, 10 of them seriously, in Rafah.
Vote: 14 to 1.
31. 04 Dec. 1993 Urges Israel to allow the return of 101 Palestinian Deportees. Vote: 14 to 1.
32. 17 May 1995 Condemning Israel's intention of confiscating 134 Acres of land in East Jerusalem. Vote: 14 to 1. United States blocks a resolution that declared invalid Israel's expropriation of Arab-owned land in east Jerusalem.
33. 15 Apr. 1996 Condemns Israel's closure of the occupied territories. Vote: 14 to 1.
34. 25 Apr. 1996 Condemned Israel for bombing UN quarters in Qana, South Lebanon, and the continuous Israeli attacks.
Vote: 14 to 1.
35. 28 Sep. 1996 Condemned Israeli settlements in Ras Al Amud in Jerusalem. Vote: 14 to 1.
36. 07 Mar. 1997 Called for Israel to stop plans to build settlements in Jabal Abu Ghuneim (Har Homa) in Jerusalem.
Vote: 14 to 1. United States vetoes resolution calling on Israel to refrain from east Jerusalem settlement activity.
37. 21- 22 Mar. 97 Condemned Israeli settlement in Jabal Abu Ghuneim.
Vote: 14 to 1. United States blocks resolution demanding Israel's immediate cessation of construction at an east Jerusalem settlement.
38. March 27, 2001: United States vetoes resolution backing a U.N. observer force to protect Palestinian civilians.
*It is hard then to find a single Arab who can welcome these facts, although others might like it.
|
|
回到顶部 |
链接这个地址
|
|
Abdallah Diwan
连接： Sep 29, 2000
邮件 21
帖子等级
爱说话的
用户是：
下线
性别和年龄： 男性, 29
国家：Egypt
Province/State: Al Iskandariyah
城市: Alexandria
|
Re: Why do Arabs hate the West?
January 8, 2004 - 05:09 AM
|
|
Yes, this is true, even in the west people who hate Bush, or the US policy in handling there international policy. And they treat Arabs as the axis of evil which is really bullshit, I know that most of the US and British Army forces don’t want war, maybe they need money to earn there living through joining the Army. They don’t want war.
Sadam Husein was one of the worst leaders ever who ruled, and we the Arabs don’t like him actually but we don’t like him to be handled that way, and in the media when the US got him on the media while treating him as a new animal found and lucking which family does he belongs to put him in the zoo. This is really a shame. Bin laden also even if he was working with the CIA or not, that doesn’t mean as Omar said that he represent us. Killing civilians is really far away from Islam. There are a lot of commands to Muslims in the Quraan (our book) never to begin fighting except if the others begin, And not to kill in particular (children, women, aged persons) even in war time. And about fighting the others, killing Civilians are not found in any ways of Gihad, Giahd is only when some one comes to occupy your land, property or money, home, family. And only to prevent the damage to happen to you in your property, there is also another rule of the prisoners of war that they should be treated very good, and in the era of profit Mohamed he ordered the Muslim’s army to release every prisoner after paying a very low amount of money, if he is young and able to go to war again, and if he don’t have the money he was supposed to teach 7 of the Muslims how to read and right in order to get his freedom, also they used to release if there is any aged persons going to war without paying anything whenever the war is over. Another proof that we don’t discriminate between Muslims and non Muslims, is that when Omar the Friend of profit Mohamed Opened Jerusalem and after that Egypt; after being occupied by the Romans for hundreds of years, first of all he was very welcomed like a very loved leader in Jerusalem, and then he was asked by the Christian Priestess to go inside the church and pray in it, as they was happy he came with peace, but he refused to pray in the church being afraid that maybe Muslims from the coming generation could like to turn the church because of him into a mosque for them to pray following him. And then he did his famous Declaration , Omar’s Declaration that Muslims and Christians and Jews, will live together and the non-Muslims have the full right to practice all there rights as Muslim’s Citizens but will be paying a Certain Tax which was in order to afforded there full protection living in Muslim Countries, and it was only taken from non-Muslims who are working and could work others who cant pay are never obliged to, this is actually equivalent to the Zakat which is the tax given by Muslims to the Government to be given to the poor, and it was obligatory for all rich Muslims, and not taken from non-Muslims. Another thing I don’t agree with is saying that Abraham was kicked with his wife from Jerusalem, to tell you this is the story we know, so we will act according to what we knew, right. Kicked out!!! Is something not a Muslim know about it, so we will not hate about it, cause we have our own story, which is Abraham was getting old, and he didn’t get any children and his wife was not Jewish by the way cause this was before the Judaism was found by the way cause she is the mother, so how could they kick Abraham’s wife and son if they didn’t exist. Another thing is the story was that there was a known pharaoh I think he is King Akhenaton he believed in the only one god, some people think he is the god of Abraham. And a god relation was found between him and Abraham, so they gave him (Hager) as a gift which later had been his wife, after his wife became old and then asked him to marry her, to get a child, but what happened was not she was kicked but an order came to Abraham from god to go to Mecca and to reconstruct the first house built on earth, the house of the god. With his son Ishmael, and this is the story we believe in, so how come we think they were kicked. ( there is something important , you need to read the roots of some one culture, to understand his actions and way of thinking based on his history not your history) cause we will always act according to our beliefs not others belief we can’t hate the west of kicking them, cause we don’t believe they did 
Any way we believe in Jacob because he was a profit and a son of Abraham, that’s why we always call Jews our cosines, and in our religion if we didn’t believe of all the profits. Another thing in Islam you could marry a Christian women or a Jewish woman, with her keeping her religion, so how come we hate them??
Also I think some of you met Dimitry my Greek best friend, and he is a Greek living all his life time in Egypt, getting his education here and you so how we were the best friends on earth, I remember one time he was going to ckick some one hardely cause he was just joking with him telling him your accent is not Arabic enough, they guy was really going to get hurt loll. Cause Dimitri is acting and say I am a complete Arab and proud to be an Egyptian.
Any way I think this is some of my thoughts , and really it is really foolish to think we hate the west, then I think at least we didn’t have to come to TIG and share ideas and projects and really love each others  , I really love you all guys , and wish this place always be a place for us to learn from Each others , and to cooperate with each others and not to get apart , remember we are all brothers coming from Adam and Eve , so we need to work towards real peace not making the gap widen between us.
I LOVEEEEE UUU ALL 
|
|
回到顶部 |
链接这个地址
|
|
Tunisian
连接： May 20, 2003
邮件 10
帖子等级
说话温和
用户是：
下线
性别和年龄： 女性, 28
国家：United States
|
let's imagine
January 8, 2004 - 06:36 AM
|
|
Let’s imagine for a while that the middel east’s inhabitants are europeans, asia’a are arabs and europe’s are latin americans…just to make a good meltingpot! Usa would just be at the same place as today! I deeply think that there would be wars since ages between europe-middel east- and usa because the problem is not that arabs hates or not us citizens but that the government and rulers of usa are working since ages-like great britain before when it was the country where there where never sunset and france and portugal and….- to enlarge their power in the world, to make profits from the products of the other countries. Energy as we know is the key of success and progress and arabs have “unfortunately” petrol so energy! that’s why usa is always trying to set “democracy” in this particular region of the world! Why not setting “democracy” in costa rica,samoa, or madagascar? Why did they helped ben laden and taliban to get rid of russians in afghanistan and then to come there to set “democracy”?
Let’s have a more particular example!a real one, tunisia is an arab country right? Did anybody from usa heard about tunisia before! Maybe yes for it is organising the next phase of the world summit on the information society! but never because there were problem with that arab country! For a simple reason, tunisian aren’t more peaceful than the other arabs! It is just that we don’t have petrol ! almost the only arab country that doesn’t have petrol! Why,because when france colonised algeria, morocco and tunisia and others,”she” decided to keep algeria as a second country! Something like having a house in the countryside while living in the city! so “she” took lot of morocco and even more of tunisia and gather it with algeria, especially the desert! All this stuff is about power!only power!
The american media –and gov- said without an evidence that the terrorist attacks were done by arabs! And americans felt sad,shoked angry,frustrated coz thousands of them were killed, which is a tragedy, but it is also a tragedy that palestinians are killed,iraki are killed,afghani are killed, africans are killed-by civilan wars with us weapons- by hiv/aids cos the western medecines are too expensive for them…..these people are also human being!
There is a sad sentence I have been always hearing since years! A war begin in an arab country, it is either against israel or usa, we fellow it on the news, we scream our frustration, disagreement, we go on strikes….and then we just give up and keep watching it on TV, when it is “finished” we say: “……..IS NEXT” after afghanistan ,irak is next, after irak we said syria is next, lybia is next, “who is next?”
We don’t hate US people, why to hate them!? Why to hate anybody? But we do disagree with the us government, we do disagree with the way wetern media present us to the world! We do disagree to see children, women, old people and also men dying each day in palestine ,congo or wherver! We don’t want to have to fight for our culture, belife, borders……each day that the sun rises…
|
|
回到顶部 |
链接这个地址
|
|
Yara Kassem
连接： Sep 16, 2002
邮件 12
帖子等级
说话温和
用户是：
下线
性别和年龄： 女性, 29
国家：Egypt
Province/State: Al Qahirah
城市: Cairo
|
Re: Why do Arabs hate the West?
January 8, 2004 - 06:48 AM
|
|
As a start to my post,I completely agree with those who said that generalizing is not good here you can never generalize saying that Arabs hate the west..
and you can't even generalize saying that all Arabs are offensive regarding this issue,or that all arabs are terrosrists or fascists,you can never be fair like that and you can also never link Islam to that thing,like saying that their glory days are gone,it's never like that it's always when you insist on dividing the world in 2 groups,there's a conflict and discrimination..
I discussed in a previous discussion about cultural diversity,as i was askign if it's fair to us as arabs to be all treated as terrorists or monsters or whatever according to whhat does a very little mentally sick group of proplr calling themselves muslims?and everytime i go to any other place in the world I find myself in that defense position defending myself,my religion,my people and all my beleifs and tryign to proove that i'm not as agressive as the picture they've got about us..
And in every single place I go,people just ask me why do you hate us???I don't hate any one?I don't hate he west,I don't hate the US,I just wanna live in peace..Why do I always have to defend myself because some minority did some terorist acts???
And I completely agree with what Nick said,Hatred is quite a tough word..we don't hate any one we don't hate any nationalities or ethnical groups,but according to the current events happening in the Middle East,such as invasion of Iraq,Occupation of Plestine,threats to Iran,Syria and Lybia..We must get angry,frustrated and sad...
What do you think,Guys???
|
|
回到顶部 |
链接这个地址
|
|
Luke Lieberman
连接： Feb 13, 2003
邮件 156
帖子等级
喋喋不休
用户是：
下线
性别和年龄： 男性, 30
国家：United States
Province/State: California
|
Re: Why do Arabs hate the West?
January 8, 2004 - 07:48 AM
|
|
The proof is in Bin Laden's statements and actions as the leader of a terrorist organization. There is no question but that he has plotted and executed violence against western targets over his career - it is the reason that he is famous. There is no doubt that he used to finance and administer training camps for Al Qada and in these camps people were taught to hate "infidels" and plotted their destruction.
I am amazed there is any question in your mind. But also it is amazing to me that you think the US would have gone to war in Afghanistan without certainty that Bin Laden was the culperate. What else do you think the US gained in this conflict if it was not to nutrulize a threat? What other advantage is there to fighting a war in Afghanistan?
The US is spending a great deal of rescource in Your country and I wonder what other benefit there is to this action? In Iraq the easy answer is Oil - but Afghanistan has no oil. They have no real economy - there is no economic advantage to fighting a war there - it just costs us money - the only reason the US went to war in your country was simply defense. We saw Al Qada, its training facilities and it leadership as being bent on harming the US.
Since destroying and raiding the taining camps we have found ample evidence that this organization was bent on our destruction.
They are still a threat now. Sept 11th had alot of people interested in the truth from all over the world - including the families of the victims - many very wealthy - who investigated.
This conspiracy theory is very misguided - provide me with a single shred of evidence that the US provided false identities of the highjackers. They have footage of them boarding the plane, ailieses on the passenger lists - some of these men were already wanted by the FBI. You obviously have a profound mistrust of my government - fine - but I know that no one over here sees it as in our interests to lie to ourselves about where this threat is coming from. The idea that our government destroyed the Pentagon and the Twin Towers in an effort deceive the US is just stupid - I don't give it an ounce of creedence.
|
|
回到顶部 |
链接这个地址
|
|
Hoda
连接： Jun 22, 2003
邮件 23
帖子等级
爱说话的
用户是：
下线
国家：United States
Province/State: West Virginia
城市: Princeton
|
Who hates whom?
January 8, 2004 - 08:50 AM
|
|
There has been so much talk lately about why Arabs hate the west. Not much has been said about why the west hates the Arabs. It a growing phenomenon that can be felt when flipping or reading the western media ( at least the American one!) maybe it is a vicious cycle: who hates whom the most !! I try to look at it from a human point of view, putting politics on the side. I don't find that the Arabs hate the west, they just might hate their policy and attitude towards them. Besides, resentment toward the west ( again, mainly American policy) has taken a global direction, we just need to read the media from around the world for a couple of days to sense the mood. But again, lets blame it on Arabs. Especially when someone like osama bin laden releases yet another tape showing how much he detests the west. As if he is a measure of the level of hatred the Arabs hold against the west. how convenient!!
I am adding couple of articles regarding the issue : enjoy !!
http://www.counterpunch.org/chuckmanplanet.html
http://www.counterpunch.org/said07212003.html
|
|
回到顶部 |
链接这个地址
|
|
sean jayasekara
连接： Aug 30, 2003
邮件 4
帖子等级
发音不清
用户是：
下线
性别和年龄： 男性, 29
国家：United Kingdom
Province/State: London, City of
城市: London
|
Re: Why do Arabs hate the West?
January 8, 2004 - 09:39 AM
|
|
Why do Arabs hate the West?...
Why do Westerners hate Arabs??
There is hate on both sides - by sufficient minorities - and that is enough. Since the beginning of Islam there has been some competition, some rivalry, some wars and some hatred between Christianity (The West) and the Arabs(Islam). It seems to be the worlds greatest power struggle now in its 13th Century. However, the war/power struggle is taking place at the top. You do not see ordinary Arabs attacking innocent Westerners on the street as part of your daily life or vice versa no matter where you live - again it is influential, often greedy people and mindless minorities that are causing the problems.
Four of my best friends are Muslims ( Arabs and others ), all with different levels of belief, different opinions and different views - yet all agree that they get unfair treatment (as does much of the developing world) from the "super-powers". September 11 was a passionate day in my student house: cheering from some corners at the destruction of the Twin Towers and anger from others about the way in which outsiders would now view Muslims.
|
|
回到顶部 |
链接这个地址
|
|
Yara Kassem
连接： Sep 16, 2002
邮件 12
帖子等级
说话温和
用户是：
下线
性别和年龄： 女性, 29
国家：Egypt
Province/State: Al Qahirah
城市: Cairo
|
Painfull position
January 8, 2004 - 09:58 AM
|
|
Sean,you might be right to some point
Both we're getting discriminated to some extent but with some differences..
But I'm still insisting that the word hatred is so unfair and dividing us into two groups is more unfair,it gives me the spirit that we're just putting ourselves into an eternal war..
And it's not that there was a competition since the very beginning:Since the beginning of Islam there was never any competition with christianity( I mean the very beginning of Islam i.e.the days of the prophet),as in Kor'an we have a complete chapter about Jesus and Virgin Mary,we trully beleive in them (it's just some details that we're having as differences),and our prophet was married to a christian woman she's called The coptic Mary,and there's a lot of things said by our prophet on how we should kindly deal with christians as we're all humans...
We were all here raised on these things,on treating all people the same no mattter from what religion they are..For example,I was raised in a catholic school I never had any problems of discrimination ,most of my friends are christians and I have also jewish friends I never heard about that kind of discrimination except when I grew up and started hearing those strange terminologies and those painfull question such as why do the arabs hate the west...
actually,I spent my childhood in Europe and a big number of the arabs does actually live in the west,and you have no idea how painfull it is to try to answer this question,or even being put in that defense position...
|
|
回到顶部 |
链接这个地址
|
|
Loran
连接： Jan 6, 2004
邮件
帖子等级
发音不清
用户是：
下线
性别和年龄： 女性, 23
国家：United States
Province/State: Ohio
城市: Massillon
|
Re: Why do Arabs hate the West?
January 8, 2004 - 10:48 AM
|
|
I would like to know why the arabs hate us in general. Because they must hate us because they can not leave the U.S. alone. We are on high terrist attack, we have been for some weeks now. So explain to me why they want to attack and kill us. They killed thousands of people and then everyone is left with nothing. We americans are over in Iraq trying to make peace..but it will never happen and everyone looks to god to do sumthing about it. Maybe there are reasons these things happen.Maybe we should become closer to god and these things would not happen. Everyone has to suffer and America is done suffering.
|
|
回到顶部 |
链接这个地址
|
|
Ansari, Omar Mansoor
连接： Sep 29, 2000
邮件 10
帖子等级
说话温和
用户是：
下线
性别和年龄： 男性, 31
国家：Afghanistan
|
Re: Why do Arabs hate the West?
January 8, 2004 - 10:51 AM
|
|
In Farsi there is a saying: “Begiresh ke Nagiret”, to translate it word by word it means “grab him not to grab you” it’s meaning is “criticize one before he criticizes you”.
The actual question should be “why the West hates Arabs?”
Study the world today, study the situations and study today’s politics. All their actions are against the Arabs and the Muslims: Palestine, Iraq, Labia, Syria and so on, and is just to secure Israel in the region. They will cease all the governments in the region that are militarily strong and economically better and still are against the occupation.
Even if Arabs hate the west it does not mean that Arabs hate the western citizens, but they hate its mentally ill rulers and their dirty politics which is the foundation of state terrorism and alliance of aggression and extremism. Luckily, the members in here are wise enough to understand what is going on in the world, who is extremist and who is aggressor, who is killer and who is terrorist?
|
|
回到顶部 |
链接这个地址
|
|
Haseeb
连接： Apr 21, 2003
邮件 15
帖子等级
用户是：
下线
性别和年龄： 男性, 30
国家：Afghanistan
Province/State: Kabol
城市: Kabul
|
Then and Now!
January 8, 2004 - 11:23 AM
|
|
Is condition in a time when there was no International law or International bGoverning Body, and now that there is International laws and the UN , camparable?
Omar, Nice use of "beegeeerish Ke Nageerait!"
|
|
回到顶部 |
链接这个地址
|
|
Ansari, Omar Mansoor
连接： Sep 29, 2000
邮件 10
帖子等级
说话温和
用户是：
下线
性别和年龄： 男性, 31
国家：Afghanistan
|
Re: Why do Arabs hate the West?
January 8, 2004 - 11:30 AM
|
|
Originally posted by SuzyQ
I would like to know why the arabs hate us in general. Because they must hate us because they can not leave the U.S. alone. We are on high terrist attack, we have been for some weeks now. So explain to me why they want to attack and kill us. They killed thousands of people and then everyone is left with nothing. We americans are over in Iraq trying to make peace..but it will never happen and everyone looks to god to do sumthing about it. Maybe there are reasons these things happen.Maybe we should become closer to god and these things would not happen. Everyone has to suffer and America is done suffering.
Loran, we all are talking about the same thing, dear.
The Arabs never hate you, however, if they hate any one in the west that is your president who killed more than 300000 innocent women, men and children in Afghanistan. Thousands in Iraq and it is not what they are doying now, if you study the history they did it to Japan too, they dropped a nuclear bomb over Hiroshima (Orishima? Yurishima?) Island of Japan and left no one alive. What you listen watch on the American TV is all what your president want they kept you away from the reality. They always tell you that the Arabs kill you, but if you meet Arabs they are the coolest people I ever met. I mentioned before as well, the rulers of your country is doing all this just to save Israeli occupation in Palestine, don’t you watch TV how the Israeli solders kill innocent children, women and men in Palestine, I am sure you have watch them. Your president supports those solders. Please ask them why they are doing this.
People do not believe the 11 September incident was carried by any Arabs, (Usama ben Laden was working with the American CIA when the Russians were in Afghanistan); there were other hands behind it, and those hands were of your rulers, who wanted to blame the Arabs then and get the support of American people and the western people in war on Saddam Hussain and in Saving Israeli occupation.
They don’t think other nations are human if they killed a milion no problem but their interests are important. You must study what your leaders are doing? You will definitely find the reality.
|
|
回到顶部 |
链接这个地址
|
|
|
从帖子中显示：
|
|
主页
团体
