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dromarof
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Re: [Poll] Homosexuality: Nature or Nurture?
August 25, 2008 - 09:52 PM
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Hi all,
Sorry to barge in like that, I just read the thread, and it caught my attention.
Allow me to express my point of view on the subject, hoping I am not offending anyone, or crossing any forum lines while doing so:
1- In analyzing the subject, I do believe the first question to be asked is "do you believe in God?". Answering this question would lead you to the answer directly. The answer should be either yes or no answer. Analyzing the subject according to your answer we get the following:
a- Yes, I believe in God. This closes the subject permanently, as it simply tells you that since God had prohibited homosexuality, it could never be your nature, because simply God is not unjust. All religions prohibited homosexuality. Evan, forgive my saying, but the "God love is unconditional" is absolutely untrue. Jesus never spoke those words. You see, Jesus didn't bring a law to the Christians to follow, his mission simply was to remind the Jews of the true law of Moses. Jesus clearly said in the Bible "If you want to be good, follow the commandments", he also said "the one who doesn't follow the least of the commandments will not witness the kingdom of heaven". What does the commandments say? In the book of Leveticus in the OT "Any man who lies in bed with another man, like a man lies with a woman, both of them should be put to death".
Evan, I really don't understand your point of the "God in the OT", and "God in the NT". Are we talking polytheism here? Every time I get into discussion with a Christian they mention that Jesus existed for ever and all this confusing Trinity thing, but what you mentioned is much more confusing. Christians always talk about Jesus and God as completely 2 different entities, but then claim they are one. Any way, this is not the point of the thread, just mentioned because of your post. If God's love is unconditional, why do you think there are heaven and hell.
b- No, I don't believe in God. Then, it is up to you. Do whatever you like. The world, laws, rules, and traditions considered to be man made, has no meaning no more.
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dromarof
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Re: [Poll] Homosexuality: Nature or Nurture?
August 25, 2008 - 09:52 PM
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2- In believing that homosexuals have been created as a homosexual, so are those with Kleptomania (compulsive stealing), do you think they should be allowed to steal because they are? And please don't tell me that homosexuals don't harm anyone, the effect they have on the long run is much more drastic to the society.
Please note, that my post is not pointed to anyone in specific (except for the comment on Evan's post). I do hope that I am not offending anyone. If I do, I sincerely apologize.
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Robert M
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Re: [Poll] Homosexuality: Nature or Nurture?
August 26, 2008 - 11:17 AM
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dromarof wrote:
And please don't tell me that homosexuals don't harm anyone, the effect they have on the long run is much more drastic to the society.
Have any examples of how this is true? What exactly is the effect?
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dromarof
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Re: [Poll] Homosexuality: Nature or Nurture?
August 26, 2008 - 08:35 PM
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RobertM wrote:
dromarof wrote:
And please don't tell me that homosexuals don't harm anyone, the effect they have on the long run is much more drastic to the society.
Have any examples of how this is true? What exactly is the effect?
How about the end of life on earth for starter?
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Robert M
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Re: [Poll] Homosexuality: Nature or Nurture?
August 27, 2008 - 10:56 AM
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dromarof wrote:
How about the end of life on earth for starter?
Pretty vague. I was looking for a concrete example. But, alright, lets assume then that you are talking about the fact that in a homosexual relationship poeple can't procreate. If this assumption is correct; then what about all the other couples that aren't in a homosexual relationship? How about all the children that are orphans in the world?
There will always be a mix of these life styles (that being; male/female, male/male, and female/female). How could a few couples out of many result in the end of the world?
Your example lacks substance, and I find it hard to make a point of the matter and have a discussion with something so vague and clearly ubiquitous.
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dromarof
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Re: [Poll] Homosexuality: Nature or Nurture?
August 27, 2008 - 11:10 AM
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Actually if you checked statistical figures you will find out it is not as vague as you think. And more importantly, homosexual couples given the right to adopt, gives rise to new generation rise under an environment that is opposing to nature, what do you think the result would be? A couple of decades ago, it would have been weird to hear about a homosexual individual, and people tried to hide it. Now, the nice guy in any movie is a homosexual. How do you think that happened? How is it going to develop with time? Of course, that is aside from STDs. And don't tell me that this occur between heterosexuals too. There is something called disease prevalence. Check the prevalence of any STD and see the percentage of contracting it among homosexuals, and compare it with heterosexuals. Your argument sounds like the arguments driven when you discuss alcohol consumption. Today, do you have any idea how many alcohol addicts are there in the US alone?? Do you think if people were taught that alcohol is wrong and forbidden from the start would this have been the case? I wonder.
By the way, I am not trying to convince with what I think, I am just explaining what I meant.
This post was edited on: 2008-08-27 at 11:12 AM by: dromarof
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Evan
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Re: [Poll] Homosexuality: Nature or Nurture?
August 28, 2008 - 01:31 AM
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Hi, I did some research and here is what I found in relation to gay and lesbian adoptive parents. This is about dromarof's claim about "an environment that is opposing to nature:
Recent professional literature and opinion stresses the irrelevance of parental homosexuality. A review article on lesbian parenting by Falk (1989) in the American Psychologist, complained that courts "often have assumed that their children are likely to be emotionally harmed, subject to molestation, impaired in gender role development, or themselves homosexual. None of these assumptions is supported by extant research and theory" (p. 941). Further, "there is no evidence either that homosexual parents are more likely to seduce or allow their children to be seduced than their heterosexual counterparts or that lesbian mothers or their acquaintances molest children more often than heterosexual individuals." (p. 944). And "research on the sexual orientation of children of lesbian mothers does not confirm the 'contagion' assumption inherent in so many court decisions" (p. 946). And, "it is important to note that no research has identified significant differences between lesbian mothers and their heterosexual counterparts or the children raised by these groups. Researchers have been unable to establish empirically that detriment results to children from being raised by lesbian mothers" (p. 946).
Similarly, a review of research on homosexual fathers stated that "[t]here is no evidence of any kind that demonstrates that living with a homosexual parent has any significant negative effects on children. In fact, it appears that gay parents are as effective and may be even more so in some ways than nongay parents"
I hope that addresses the concerns.
Also, when discussing alcoholism we can not forget the Prohibition. Prior to the Amendment to the US Constitution, drinking was legal, but greatly frowned upon. Groups like the Women's Christian Temperance Union fought for its abolition. The elected officials of the US, with the full support of their electorate, were so against alcohol that they decided to ban it.
However, the Prohibition had the complete opposite effect. Alcohol became the most sought-after item on the market, and organized crime with its mob wars and speak-easies ruled the land. Prohibition didn't work then, and it certainly would not work to abolish a NATURAL desire such as homosexuality.
Thanks,
Evan
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Evan
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Re: [Poll] Homosexuality: Nature or Nurture?
August 28, 2008 - 01:32 AM
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Sorry, I forgot to cite my source! Here it is:
Journal article by Paul Cameron, Kirk Cameron; Adolescence, Vol. 31, 1996
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dromarof
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Re: [Poll] Homosexuality: Nature or Nurture?
August 28, 2008 - 01:49 AM
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Evan,
Thank you for your post.
It never crossed my mind that the parents are not efficient, or would sexually abuse their children.
I simply meant that a child raised with homosexual parents has a much higher chance of becoming a homosexual himself. It is the natural course of action. Specially, when he is seeing this as the normal thing. In contrast with alcoholism, most children of alcoholic parents refrain from alcohol due to the destructive effect alcohol had on their families. That was my point, sorry if I hadn't clarify it. And again, alcohol prohibition couldn't have worked in a Christian society, where the church allows alcohol consumption. This issue requires a separate thread may be. To clarify my point more, check the percentage of addicts in countries where alcohol is prohibited and compare it with other countries were it is allowed or even encouraged. Even in Muslim countries, where alcohol is not prohibited, and served on demand, numbers are far beyond comparison.
Thanks.
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Oliver Khakwani
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Re: [Poll] Homosexuality: Nature or Nurture?
September 2, 2008 - 06:47 PM
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Um...the thread seems to have drifted a bit from the original question.
Ok, for starters I should probably point out that I'm bisexual, atheist and libertarian. I don't find the arguments about society's liberalism creating homosexuality that convincing because if you consider the Kinsey reports from 1938 when being gay was still illegal virtually everywhere it was pretty much as prevalent as it is today.
From my personal experience I think it's something that is learnt because up until I was 9 I had basically no male influence in my life - my dad lived in the North of England working 5 days a week and I only saw him on weekends, all the teachers at my primary school except for 2 were female.
But I also read an article on the BBC that said gay men's brains are more similar to female brains and the same goes for gay women and male brains so there's probably something predetermined in it too.
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Adelusi Oluwafemi Temidayo-Don
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Re: [Poll] Homosexuality: Nature or Nurture?
October 30, 2008 - 03:23 PM
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My goodness! Where was i when this issue was discussed? Well, never too late anyway.
Having read through each response to this post and with the level on tones noticed therein, i just concluded that "homosexuality" is indeed a serious issue in this our present society. With this, i am scared of what the next generation will introduce and do.
However, i would like to start issuing my writs from the view of "CHOICE" . You see, life is a choice not a chance at all. Life is like a market where everyone buys what he or she likes(Please note 'good or bad" ). And it would be very unfair if fail to recognize that we are not born with anything but through choice have all what we have in our possessions now just because we chose to have them.
There is this word in the Bible "Choose now between me and your god" which i think i have totally adopted. It shows that God is a God of democrat (he allows everyone to choose) but based on our choice he will judge us because he believes we are not under any other duress. Even when we are, we stil have the choice to say "NO!". So homosexuality is a choice!
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Adelusi Oluwafemi Temidayo-Don
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Re: [Poll] Homosexuality: Nature or Nurture?
October 30, 2008 - 03:25 PM
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CONTINUATION
......... In my attempt to conclude this response, I would like to say that if God wanted Homosexuality at first, i would have created two men (Ada and another Ada) not Ada and his opposite sex, Eve. However, i believe He did not create man and woman in error. He knew what he was doing when he created Ada and Eve. In fact, he said,
"a man will leave his father's house and go after a woman". Did he say a man will go after man or woman after woman?
Hear him again "a man that finds a woman finds a good thing and obtain good favour in the sight of God".
Now questions:
What would a man that find a man or a woman that finds a woman finds in the sight of God? Good thing and favour or crisis and God's wrath? I would like us to remunerate on that.
Please pardon me for this conclusion, just that i am being God sensetive. I believe you will all agree with me that God is perfect and always right? Good! Sinse He is, then homosexuality is the greatest malady of humanity. I am just wondering how God is feeling about it.
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Korey Anthony Chisholm
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Re: [Poll] Homosexuality: Nature or Nurture?
December 16, 2008 - 06:00 AM
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Homosexuality some times i feel is treated oneside in the eyes of people, it is the only issue that is not treated a sa human right because proplr feel it's not right base on culture and relgion, if i can remmmeber that as sar as culture and relgion it's been present in all times, and will be here until when ever... i have been a members of this Communitz at age 5 as i can remmeber what or who si to judge that i learnt to be gay or born, i was tormented through school form that age to college and even today in my country, so for me i can clearlly see the answer for this question. The questionm fo rme is since i am told i am not right or i not to be this way, should i kill myself, or should anz Government or person have to rigth to kill me cause i am gay because relgion or culture does nto agree with me. The question is should whz i don't have humam right when i am a human, some times is makes me think if i ant to be human since we are so unjust to ourself and others.....
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Chantelle Ennis-Charoo
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Re: [Poll] Homosexuality: Nature or Nurture?
January 6, 2009 - 01:42 PM
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I strongly believe that external stimuli such as: family, peers, and the media influence *some* people to become homosexuals.
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Chantelle Ennis-Charoo
Panorama Content Editor [Cooperative Edu. Student]
TakingITGlobal.org
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