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Reilly Yeo
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[Poll] DEMOCRACY - What should Canada do in Zimbabwe?
July 17, 2008 - 05:25 PM
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On our TiG blog, at http://www.tigblog.org/group/canadasworld/post/410423, one of our bloggers Lisa has asked a very good question about what countries like Canada should do in Zimbabwe. She says:
"Western democracy has taken many decades, centuries even, to develop, and has been through it’s own similar trials on its legitimacy. Let’s look also at the recent situation in Afghanistan...until Afghanistan is ready to build it’s own style of democracy, outside forces cannot simply give it to the nation and expect it to work right away... Democracy does not answer all problems, as history has shown.
The question I am attempting to raise is not what should be done in Zimbabwe, but whether or not the world even has a role to intervene...does Canada have a right or even a responsibility to intervene in nations where democracy is threatened?"
What do you think?
This post was edited on: 2008-07-23 at 04:54 PM by: ReillyY
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davyk
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Re: [Poll] DEMOCRACY - What should Canada do in Zimbabwe?
July 21, 2008 - 02:29 AM
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ReillyY wrote:
On our TiG blog, at http://www.tigblog.org/group/canadasworld/post/410423, one of our bloggers Lisa has asked a very good question about what countries like Canada should do in Zimbabwe. She says:
"Western democracy has taken many decades, centuries even, to develop, and has been through it’s own similar trials on its legitimacy. Perhaps this is a phase in the evolution of Zimbabwe’s democracy - much like the rule of Hitler has taught the German’s to be more aware and reorganize their political system to dilute power among many. Let’s look also at the recent situation in Afghanistan...until Afghanistan is ready to build it’s own style of democracy, outside forces cannot simply give it to the nation and expect it to work right away."
And what she wants to know from other people is: does Canada have a right or even a responsibility to intervene in nations where democracy is threatened, or is this simply pushing Western values onto nations that aren’t ready (and may never be ready) to open up to these ideas?
What do you think?
Canada and the rest of the West should just butt out of Zimbabwean politics.
They should leave us to choose our own leaders. Who are they to chose an leader for us like the EU is trying to do?
Who are they to determine the legitimacy of another country's president?
They should just butt out!
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mpanji nalumbwe wambuzi
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Re: [Poll] DEMOCRACY - What should Canada do in Zimbabwe?
August 7, 2008 - 03:50 AM
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Zimbabwe is not "an island" to resist the ideas coming from its neighbors and of course the rest of the world concerning her governance issues. Actually Governance issues in Zimbabwe leave much to be desired, the scary Inflation levels there,the political violence going on is so sad. It is not only Canada that is concerned about the situation in this Country...It is actually a global concern. Zimbabwe needs Peace prayers and meditations from the world over, for the conflict situation to be resolved.
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davyk
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Re: [Poll] DEMOCRACY - What should Canada do in Zimbabwe?
August 7, 2008 - 08:47 AM
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mpanjilwa wrote:
Zimbabwe is not "an island" to resist the ideas coming from its neighbors and of course the rest of the world concerning her governance issues. Actually Governance issues in Zimbabwe leave much to be desired, the scary Inflation levels there,the political violence going on is so sad. It is not only Canada that is concerned about the situation in this Country...It is actually a global concern. Zimbabwe needs Peace prayers and meditations from the world over, for the conflict situation to be resolved.
Noone said Zimbabwe is an island but what im saying is we want home grown solutions to our issues.
Noone has the ground to detect unto us what we aught to do or how to govern ourselves.Give me an example where there is a model of good governance!Every country has its own flaws.And the is no need to play holier than thou and also be hypocrites.
I ask what was the role of Canada and the rest of the West when we were fighting colonialism where were the human rights activits when we were being treated as second class citizens in our on country?
The will of the people of Zimbabwe should prevail not the expectations of the west.Who are they anyway to set the standard?
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mpanji nalumbwe wambuzi
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Re: [Poll] DEMOCRACY - What should Canada do in Zimbabwe?
August 14, 2008 - 05:57 AM
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When we speak of GOVERNANCE in general,we basically are talking about...how far any stakeholder or a citizen of that particular society,institution or organisation takes part in the decision making process of how the public resources are shared and distributed?. How transparent is this distribution of the resources.How "legitimate" is this society's decisions from the perspective of its citizens?.
Good Governance on the other hand goes beyond governance....an institution or society practicing Good Governance would first execirse Governance.The question one would ask at this point is...Is even governance as a concept being appreciated and practised at the moment in Zimbabwe?. With the Human rights abuse,Political violence and other evils that border on violation of a citizens rights?.
I suppose under the above circumstances, one would appreciate Zimbabwe's Internal Rights and Freedoms over her country. are cardinal and Even so, as a Nation it has its own assets to protect,be it human rights,natural resources rights,all the other rights that one can imagine and itself as a whole. However the other point one needs to drive home is the fact that, even endowed with the rich "NATURAL" resources....there is serious need to interact with others at least... ...for example TRADE and invite INVESTMENT purposes. Because how do you develop and how does a society or country become a model that she wants when she can not see how others are doing it.
Unless One says that there are no negotiation skills, technical skills in inviting Trade and Investment to sell the resources that are available to let them stay untapped???.
I Passionately believe Zimbabwe has capable and well equipped citizens that have what it takes to understand these issues and take their country to another level unless otherwise.That is why countries like Canada and the rest of the World are concerned about the situation.
The World does not want to take over Zimbabwe...It simply would like to HELP restore to its original place .. even better*
This post was edited on: 2008-08-14 at 06:05 AM by: mpanjilwa
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davyk
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Re: [Poll] DEMOCRACY - What should Canada do in Zimbabwe?
September 1, 2008 - 09:15 AM
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At least Bush is seeing the light.
Bush says Africans have better judgment on Zim
THE OUTGOING United States President, George W. Bush has made a rare admission that Africans have a better judgment in finding solutions to the problems in Zimbabwe.
Speaking to Tanzanian President Jakaya Kikwete on Friday the US President, who is leaving office in November this year, admitted that the US could take cues from African leaders about how best to approach the Zimbabwean issue.
"I … am looking forward to continuing our discussions on issues like Zimbabwe,” said Bush, adding that “These are issues that the president is most familiar with, issues in which he has got good judgment about how to proceed.”
“He (President Kikwete) also comes representing the African Union… (and) has kindly given me a briefing on how he sees the different situations and opportunities on the continent of Africa,” said Bush.
The US president also said that he will respect the judgment of the AU in relation to the situation in the Darfur region of the Sudan.
Bush also admitted that his government “offered support to opposition leader Morgan Tsvangirai” – a charge denied by the opposition Movement for Democratic Change leader.
Speaking at a luncheon to mark the opening of Parliament on Tuesday last week, President Mugabe said the British and Americans had visited all Sadc Heads of State to influence them to speak ill about Zimbabwe ostensibly because of the land issue.
“This time they have been promised by the British that sanctions would be more devastating, that in six months’ time the Government will collapse,” he added.
http://www.talkzimbabwe.com/news/117/ARTICLE/3270/2008-08-31.html
They should just leave us to solve our own issues.Who are they anyway to dectate who should be our leader?
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Mutseke M. Siira
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Re: [Poll] DEMOCRACY - What should Canada do in Zimbabwe?
September 29, 2008 - 06:16 AM
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canda should look at the welfare of the innocent People of zimbabwe who actually have nothing to do with the leadership but are dying of hunger.
netither President mugabe nor Mr. Morgan are feeling the exact heat like the ordinary peasants.
So, canada should never dream of sanctions, since they (sanctions) have nothing to do with the trouble causers.
Siiramut@yahoo.com
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davyk
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Re: [Poll] DEMOCRACY - What should Canada do in Zimbabwe?
September 29, 2008 - 10:46 AM
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siiramut wrote:
canda should look at the welfare of the innocent People of zimbabwe who actually have nothing to do with the leadership but are dying of hunger.
netither President mugabe nor Mr. Morgan are feeling the exact heat like the ordinary peasants.
So, canada should never dream of sanctions, since they (sanctions) have nothing to do with the trouble causers.
Siiramut@yahoo.com
i tend to agree with you there.
i wish these people would leave us alone to solve our own issues
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Nikki
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Re: [Poll] DEMOCRACY - What should Canada do in Zimbabwe?
September 29, 2008 - 12:56 PM
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I think that in this circumstance the best thing that Canada should do is leave the political side of things alone and step up aid efforts, by providing increased food relief through the Canadian and international organization that have been most successful in navigating the obstacles to food delivery to those most in need.
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kundai
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Re: [Poll] DEMOCRACY - What should Canada do in Zimbabwe?
September 30, 2008 - 05:12 AM
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i tend to agree with the writer that said africans should solve their own problems. looking at the past western countries have bn quick to find solutions that are only devasting in the long run take for example ESAP. so all we say is give us a chance to find solutions and support us.
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augustine
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Re: [Poll] DEMOCRACY - What should Canada do in Zimbabwe?
October 1, 2008 - 06:24 AM
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I take comfort and joy in the knowledge that the obtaining crisis in Zimbabwe is attracting continued and unrelenting support from the international community. Gone are the days, when the international community stood by and did nothing whilst atrocities were being perpetrated against the innocent children, women and the disabled by errant regimes.
In the face of this reality, the international community should persist and remain steadfast in their collective endeavours to push Zimbabwe's political leadership to reach a comprehensive and conclusive Political Deal that addresses the wishes and aspiration of all ZImbabweans.
The recovery path shall, no doubt, be painful and challenging since the democratic credentials of the new Government will be evaluated on basis of its adherence to the protection of human rights, freedom of association. freedom of the press,protection of property rights, freedom of expression et al. Failure to implement legal reforms, the International community should withhold restoration of bilateral or multilateral support to the new Government.
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davyk
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Re: [Poll] DEMOCRACY - What should Canada do in Zimbabwe?
October 6, 2008 - 06:32 AM
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kundie wrote:
i tend to agree with the writer that said africans should solve their own problems. looking at the past western countries have bn quick to find solutions that are only devasting in the long run take for example ESAP. so all we say is give us a chance to find solutions and support us.
i couldnt agree with you more for i know noone has then moral ground to lecture us in good governance,humanrights etc as these countries are some of the great violators of human rights eg the aborigines are treated as second class citezen in the country of the fathers.
We are suppose to decide who should govern us and not what other countries would want...
Canada and her friends should just constructively support our initiatives only and notdectate to us....!
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Stephen Ojeremen
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Re: [Poll] DEMOCRACY - What should Canada do in Zimbabwe?
October 20, 2008 - 03:51 PM
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Our dilemma today as an African, is that structural changes in democratic institutions are yet to be matched with behavioral changes. This means that we need democratic attitudes to match the democratic structures.
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smith
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Re: [Poll] DEMOCRACY - What should Canada do in Zimbabwe?
October 23, 2008 - 02:59 AM
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Canada should organize Agriculture land from the people to setup up food production centers there and grow some crops for them to be able to harvest there. it should be secured to prevent stealing.
They should still continue the aid to support hunger.
they should help local farmers who have existing land with seedlings for productions.
by so doing, the output of food production will increase in the next six months to one year then the prices of food and other things will reduce.
This is because the demand for food consumption will be gradually meet by an increase in food supply which will bring the price down because of population growth rate will reduce as a result of existing hunger logically
To speed up food production Canada can distribute seedlings which grows faster as food and it should be according to their soil sample.
this is a long run effect and it can be the only solution to help put things back on track
this will help work trust me.
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Olowoyeye Oluwatosin Anu
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Re: [Poll] DEMOCRACY - What should Canada do in Zimbabwe?
October 23, 2008 - 05:10 AM
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kundie wrote:
i tend to agree with the writer that said africans should solve their own problems. looking at the past western countries have bn quick to find solutions that are only devasting in the long run take for example ESAP. so all we say is give us a chance to find solutions and support us.
It's a good idea that Africa should be left alone to solve her own issues, but, what if these African leaders aren't practising Democracy enough to rule her people well? Don't you think it would be a BETTER idea for an external aid to come in/assist? Well, I'm an African, and I really don't see anything wrong in inviting expatriates into our matters. We can always learn from others.
Most of our leaders have been given the chance to rule us for many years, yet, they're disappointing and the economic situation retrogressing. In Africa, we are trully far away from any Democratic Leadership, (maybe in my Country, **sic). Our leaders profess to be democratic in styles, but in ruling they act otherwise. They impose their decisions on us, without having us to make decisions for ourselves. (AUTOCRACY).
Canada could step in by helping to encourage a form of Participatory Democracy, wherein, the opinion of the general public is respected and their candidate selected regardless of any opposition from past leaders.
^_^
This post was edited on: 2008-10-23 at 05:18 AM by: Olowotee
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