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BrianSoto
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Re: [Poll] Do you need Faith or Religion to achieve Morality?
August 7, 2008 - 12:56 PM
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EI wrote:
If the morality derived from Christianity, does that mean you could change your religious whatever idealism or new theory discover. Tell me more about, why do you always move from your religion to new ideas?
Did you not read what I just wrote? Morality did not derive from Christianity.
I just explained how morality was being practiced long before Abrahamic religions.
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Mohamed Eid
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Re: [Poll] Do you need Faith or Religion to achieve Morality?
August 7, 2008 - 01:57 PM
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I've a good enough background of morality, but morality asserts other field of lifestyle, so why morality doesn’t supports the facts of religions and the existence of the Lord and his superpower.
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BrianSoto
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Re: [Poll] Do you need Faith or Religion to achieve Morality?
August 7, 2008 - 02:05 PM
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EI wrote:
I've a good enough background of morality, but morality asserts other field of lifestyle, so why morality doesn’t supports the facts of religions and the existence of the Lord and his superpower.
Go back and read what I wrote two posts back.
Morality exists without religion.
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Mohamed Eid
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Re: [Poll] Do you need Faith or Religion to achieve Morality?
August 8, 2008 - 04:28 AM
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I"ve read earlier your all posts, that is why I'm going to interchange different views. Whatever it is, do you believe morality more important than religion?
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Mohamed Eid
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Re: [Poll] Do you need Faith or Religion to achieve Morality?
August 8, 2008 - 04:31 AM
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I"ve read earlier your all posts, that is why I'm going to interchange different views. Whatever it is, do you believe morality more important than religion?
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BrianSoto
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Re: [Poll] Do you need Faith or Religion to achieve Morality?
August 8, 2008 - 02:40 PM
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EI wrote:
I"ve read earlier your all posts, that is why I'm going to interchange different views. Whatever it is, do you believe morality more important than religion?
Do i believe morality is more important than religion?'Important' isn't the word I would use to qualify either. Since I won't accept religion as a credible institution, I appraise it no value, much less priority in relation to morality.
Morality is necessary because without it we would have Nihilism or Anarchy. Religion is not necessary, so without it we all would be fine.
This post was edited on: 2008-08-08 at 02:42 PM by: BrianSoto
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Mohamed Eid
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Re: [Poll] Do you need Faith or Religion to achieve Morality?
August 9, 2008 - 12:59 PM
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Since the person doesn’t know anything about religions, he couldn’t enable to make comprise between something he doesn’t know and something he knows well. Because, he couldn’t bring out on the discussion table a concrete arguments on his claims. You should look the objectivities of your claims. Never try to make presentation what you don’t know anything at all. I’m looking for on how to learn much about Christianity, as to keep objectivities of my claims.
Morality gives only prior consideration on physical matters. What I mean, a person can pretend someone who is loyal, good manner, lovely characters and treat social in a polite way. All of these things the person can act this characters, he only shows up people. Morality can not be guarantee in any situation, it’s something fluctuates in every circumstance. If one theory or code of conduct get fail, it wouldn’t be applied any more, it should be needed to replaced a new on. Furthermore, all of the moralities are suggested by a human mind, it can be wrong or right. So how could we apply it since someone like us bring it from his/her thoughts? Those believe morality don’t know about what beyond the death. Why doesn’t morality identify why we born, grow, become less power, and than die? Moralities don’t have accountability.
But religions are beyond the human brain, the almighty Allah who created the entire brains, exposed the religions as people exercise among themselves, not violent one to another; and should treat in respectful way for the sack of Allah. Everything you’re doing you’ll exam this estimated question, “Does the Allah allow me or not to act it?” You fear the accountability of your Lord and the re-alive in hereafter. All of those things control the disciplines of the religious person.
So, you can judge now, how the religion is more important than anything else.
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BrianSoto
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Re: [Poll] Do you need Faith or Religion to achieve Morality?
August 9, 2008 - 05:58 PM
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Why do you insist on making assumptions about my experience with Religion? I already told you once before, people that make assumptions are foolish and often inaccurate, as you are here.
If you had actually read my statements you would see I have a long experience with Christianity. I was born and raised into religion. My family is almost all devout Christians. From my experience, religious people are more intolerant than those who are not.
Morality doesn't need to explain life or death It never claimed to. Science can do that, and does so with devastating accuracy and credibility, not fantasy like religion.
I find it profoundly disturbing trying to have a rational conversation with someone that constantly invokes the name of "Allah" or "God" as an explanation. Since there is no evidence of such a being you are merely parroting an indoctrination. It's tantamount to me invoking the Magical Spaghetti Monster or Hydra or Zeus. Could you honestly debate someone that said Fairies and Unicorns created the earth and all that's in it? Of course not. Well the same is true here.
You are invoking these primitive superstitions (Allah) in the middle of a debate as if it were somehow a credible, viable substantiation.
Two things. I have a very long and studied personal experience with religion, so you are incorrect and foolish for making that assumption (not to mention it shows you either won't read, can't read or can't comprehend what I've already explained); and Morality does not claim to answer life and death questions, nor would it need to. Science does that, and quite convincingly.
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Mohamed Eid
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Re: [Poll] Do you need Faith or Religion to achieve Morality?
August 10, 2008 - 12:47 PM
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Don’t be irrationalized person and you’ve to keep the ethics of the discussion, why we’re in here is to share ideas. Your entire speech contradicting one to another. Look, you mentioned earlier that religion isn’t necessary, and you currently claim that you grow up your religion and from a family devout Christianity. It’s apparently clear that you don’t know thing about your religion.
You accused me that I’m someone use assumptions, what the poorly claim you have!. I respect person’s believe.
I was practicing my religion since my childhood, it built my personality, thoughts and endowed me to be very responsible person even my childhood. When I was nine years old up to know, I still learn different subjects of the Islamic religion.
Apart from that, you don’t know Islamic religions. Your debate is like number 3 that each one reads his front side, it can be 3, W, M or 4 in Arabic number, and that is way you are preferring morality than your religion.
Mine is number 1, in everyone side you stand aside this number, you definitely identify it’s number 1. The name of Allah that I invoked my debate, indeed is a great name, I appreciate it too much. You could not understand how it is important.
To believe something you need proofs, alright, proofs can be documents or witness, or the debate of the lawyers. Well, when all of these harmonize together then jury make decision. Likewise, the holly Quran is the mother of all proofs, that Islamic religion is true, everything regarding the life from beginning to end are being available. I’m a student of Degree journalism and mass communication for the last month, all characteristics of good journalist and journalism, I already learned my Holly Quran; miracle. Everything in the world Quran already say something.
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BrianSoto
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Re: [Poll] Do you need Faith or Religion to achieve Morality?
August 10, 2008 - 11:51 PM
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Yes, I grew up in a family of devout Christians. I was fortunate enough to be educated later as I grew up. I questioned the things I was indoctrinated with. I held them to the light of scrutiny. I learned no one needs religion for morality. I still say that. What don't you understand?
You assumed I had no experience with religion. That's an assumption. You were wrong.
It's not important to me because I have no evidence of Allah existing. Prove to me Allah exists and I'll reevaluate how important he is.
Following that reasoning, I'd like to advance my own belief that I think you should respect as being important - it's my god, The Flying Elephant named.Xianshi. I would like you to appreciate how important my god is, even though I have no evidence of him.
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Mohamed Eid
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Re: [Poll] Do you need Faith or Religion to achieve Morality?
August 12, 2008 - 12:37 PM
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Allah has sent prophets and messengers alone with miracles with many proofs throughout the ages for people to be able to clearly see with their own eyes and to be able to use their own senses the miracles and proofs pointing to the fact, Allah does in fact, exist.
Miracles of prophets and messengers of Allah have come to people through the ages. Moses, peace be upon him, showed many miracles to pharaoh and to the children of Israel. Plagues, locusts, water turning to blood, his stick becoming a snake, the voice in the burning bush and the parting of the Red Sea are clear miracles for the people of Moses time.
Again, Allah sent Jesus, the son of Mary, peace be upon him, with clear miracles for the people of his time. Speaking from the cradle while still a new born infant, creating birds from clay, curing the sick, giving sight to the blind and even bringing a dead man back to life, were all clear signs to the people to know Jesus, peace be upon him, was a messenger of Allah as was Moses before him.
Muhammad, peace be upon him, was the last and final messenger of Allah, and sent to all of mankind. Allah sent him with a number of miracles, not the least of which was the Quran. The predictions and prophecies of Muhammad, peace be upon him, have come true even in this century and the Quran has been used to convince even scientists of the existence of Allah.
The Quran is the best of proofs for the existence of Allah and today over one and half billion people memorize and recite from the exact text, in the exact same language it was revealed in; Arabic. More than 10 million Muslims have completely memorized the entire Quran from cover to cover, and can recite it from memory without looking at it.
No one sees or hears Allah, not even the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. Nor are we able to use our senses to make some kind of contact with Him. However, we are encouraged in Islam to use our senses and our common sense to recognize this entire universe could not possibly come into existence on its own. Something had to design it all and then put it into motion. This is beyond our ability to do, yet it is something we can understand.
Source: http://godallah.com/evidence.php
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BrianSoto
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Re: [Poll] Do you need Faith or Religion to achieve Morality?
August 13, 2008 - 01:06 PM
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We've established that you're thoroughly indoctrinated, and probably delusional
on these points.
That isn't evidence that you just categorically listed off. Those events are allegories in books of myth. Most religious don't even take those stories literally, yet here you are interpreting them as a literalist. You actually beleive those things happened, and are calling them "evidence".
Most moderate and educated Muslims and Christians see view those stories as metaphors, they don;t actually believe those things happened.
There is no debating with you because you're incapable of rational conversation.
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Mohamed Eid
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Re: [Poll] Do you need Faith or Religion to achieve Morality?
August 13, 2008 - 01:22 PM
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BrianSoto wrote:
We've established that you're thoroughly indoctrinated, and probably delusional
on these points.
That isn't evidence that you just categorically listed off. Those events are allegories in books of myth. Most religious don't even take those stories literally, yet here you are interpreting them as a literalist. You actually beleive those things happened, and are calling them "evidence".
Most moderate and educated Muslims and Christians see view those stories as metaphors, they don;t actually believe those things happened.
There is no debating with you because you're incapable of rational conversation.
I know that you will not believe what I told you earlier. Our Allah told us that sort of people like you could not enabled to understanding the truth of the Quran. As much as I try to make any kind of debate and persuade something, you don’t have ability to believe what I’m telling you. You’ll confirm it some day. Be on your position and I’ll be my position. I’m billion percentage confidence my religion and the existence of my Allah.
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BrianSoto
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Re: [Poll] Do you need Faith or Religion to achieve Morality?
August 13, 2008 - 02:40 PM
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I have the ability to believe anything that I'm compelled to believe with some measure of evidence or rationalization. You offer neither.
You fail to convince me, because the basis for which your religion is founded is steeped in superstition, without the least bit of corroborated evidence to sustain it.
If I told you my Demon Elephant God has told me we all as a human race need to behave in a certain manner, you would demand some measure of evidence that this god even existed before you agreed to such things.
The same is true here. I am unlike you, I don't blindly accept indoctrination as truth. You were brainwashed as a child, and you blindly accepted this highly irrational story even as you grew older. Now with your ability to reason, you still fail to see how absurd it sounds.
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DakotaStorm
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Re: [Poll] Do you need Faith or Religion to achieve Morality?
August 14, 2008 - 06:18 AM
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Faith yes,Relegion questionable.Moraltity comes from a person's character.The fundamental Primal instincs within each individual,exists within each of us really determines a person's morals.Great if one can find a Religion which supports this aiding towards bringing the best morals out within a person's character.If a Relegious order does not have these basic fundamentals,then there is only distortion,which leads to distorted idealism within morals.This is an age old question with Scientists and Religions still at loggerheads with each other.The querry could be better explained in terms of Character,Morals,Primary Survival Insticts and Spirituality.As Discoverred in my own work,There can be many Relegious people,whom do not act Spiritually Morall.Look at the history of Religious development,it contains both good and bad aspects done in the name of Religion,Spiritual Morality does not force one to rely upon language interpretations for it is naturally inbuilt within each of us.
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