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BrianSoto
连接： Jun 3, 2008
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Re: [Poll] Faith and reason: are they compatible?
August 20, 2008 - 01:01 AM
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kinkysmiths wrote:
I
What calculations for probability did you use to calculate for God existance/non-existance? That interests me.
Read Chapter 4 of The God Delusion for the answer to this.
kinkysmiths wrote:
I
..but Richard Dawkins is not God nonetheless nor would I want him to do the thinking about God for me.
You're implying that to hear the thoughts of others, to be compelled by argument, or to merely hear the voices of the foremost speakers on a given subject, is to allow them to do your thinking?
To hear/read different perspectives from some of the brightest minds on a particular subject doesn't mean you've allowed them to do your thinking, it means you're more informed on all the arguments. You're then more qualified to form an educated opinion, a more argument proof hypothesis of your own.
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Mohamed Eid
连接： Jun 29, 2007
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Re: [Poll] Faith and reason: are they compatible?
August 20, 2008 - 04:21 AM
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BrianSoto wrote:
I really can't understand your English in that last paragraph. I re-read it 4 times and it's as incomprehensible as the first. Perhaps someone can translate?
My question still stands. You've yet to answer it. - What happened to humans for the 90,000 years before Abrahamic religion was created? Where did they go when they died?
My next question to you is this - The religious often make the claim that everything is a part of "god's plan" or in Islam's case, "Allah's plan" . Was it a part of God's plan that some women are afflicted with Polycystic ovary syndrome? It was "God's plan" that those women could not have children?
What about disfigured children born with hideous mutations. Was it god's plan that they are constantly ridiculed until they commit suicide or live a life in exile? That was "god's plan"? Really?
This post was edited on: 2008-08-14 at 06:55 AM by: BrianSoto
I leave your questions, because you don’t have ears to hear what I’m going to tell, you don’t have a mind to understand it, and you don’t have a heart to evaluate it. That is why I prefer not to give you any more answers.
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BrianSoto
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Re: [Poll] Faith and reason: are they compatible?
August 21, 2008 - 04:51 AM
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On the subject of trying to disabuse and reason with a religious fanatic who repeatedly invoked "Allah" as "fact" during this comical exchange, a friend wrote in a private message adding the old saying which has now become my favorite response any time a fundamentalist invokes a god agent in a science debate as "evidence" after being confronted with a mountain of reason, and actual scientific evidence for evolution :
"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink."
I have lead Eid to the water. Whether he drinks or not is up to him. My job is done here.
I suppose if I lived in Somalia where I risked death for believing anything other than in Islam, I might need to abandon my ability to reason too. Thankfully, I live in a free country, where I'm not forced to believe primitive superstition. And no one here would think to call me an apostate or heretic for thinking for myself, and refusing indoctrination.
This post was edited on: 2008-08-21 at 04:52 AM by: BrianSoto
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Mohamed Eid
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Re: [Poll] Faith and reason: are they compatible?
August 21, 2008 - 11:27 AM
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You became “I’m always right and others wrong” you will not open minded person. I’ve believe facts that is based on very strong code of conducts, it’s the words of Allah, which has protected no body couldn’t have ability to change anything at all. It is the best code of conduct that fit and appropiate any kind of life cyle. Islamic knowledge is the mother of all knowledge, everything you need you will find it directly or indirectly. Understanding of Islamic knowledg very few of people may get this chance.
What you are going to compare Islamic religion facts is what someone like us initiative his mind, but bear in my that kind of mind Allah is who created it. What you’re trying to persuade me, is like a blind person trying to lead some who have eyes, that you know that isn’t possible.
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BrianSoto
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Re: [Poll] Faith and reason: are they compatible?
August 23, 2008 - 12:57 AM
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No. I've simply asked you to question what you've been taught using reason.
You can no more invoke Allah as a fact or evidence than you could a magical unicorn. Your evidence is subjective and anecdotal conjecture, but not fact. It's the same as if I called you "blind" for not seeing the way of my belief in a giant pink flying forest creature. There is no evidence for it, only your perception of what you personally feel or see.
I'm not arguing against Islam, or even in following a religion, I'm arguing the blind faith in theocracy that someone fed you, without a shred of evidence to support its claims, you blindly accepted it because everyone around you told you to. Your family and culture told you to believe in it. It would be the same as if you were born into a commune of hippies that told you UFO's were coming some day to destroy the earth. If you were raised to believe that, and all of your friends and family told you it was true, of course you will believe it, even though there is no evidence corroborating it. Muslims will attribute all good feelings or good fortune to "Allah". That's the religious compulsion. But in fact, people without "Allah" or without "god" experience glorious connectedness. rapturous love, and profound peace and happiness without "god", all the time.
I'm very much not blind. Blind people accept theological indoctrination as automatic truth. Thankfully, I've risen above that to question what I've been told. Modern man has seen an emancipation from the compulsion to attribute things to a maker simply because the world amazes us, we now know there are vastly more fulfilling and truthful explanations for the world's complexities.
Theism is far more maniacal and ludicrous thatn even deism. To believe in Theism you have to believe that something as omnipotent as a creator would actually only honor one religion on earth (LOL). Something as all powerful as a creator, would bias itself to only one religion. Just talking about Theism as if it were a credible proposition is like discussing the merits of Trolls and Hobbits.
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This post was edited on: 2008-08-23 at 07:31 PM by: BrianSoto
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Georgia
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Re: [Poll] Faith and reason: are they compatible?
August 25, 2008 - 01:09 PM
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I have yet to find a 'why' to human/life existance, and a certain argument that why it is not exceptional that we seem to be so closely connected. Maybe dreams and symbolism is all illusionary, but I do not see a rational explanation for them. People have a large will to survive, and I do not know why. Do you have any answers for these questions? I'd like to know for certain why there ought not to be some sort of force controlling the universe.
Also for some reason intuition can preail over logic. Sometimes perhaps it can be wrong, too, yet why do we follow it? Why are we so happy when it turns out to be right, or can produce something which is beyond what other people have produced in the same circumstances? And why do we imagine? Why do cultures question a God-like force, all over the world, even before the Catholic turned this into a means for control, like in aboriginal cultures?
Why are you so certain there is no (God-like) force controlling, or rather connecting us? I'd like to know.
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sumeni
连接： Aug 27, 2008
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Re: [Poll] Faith and reason: are they compatible?
August 27, 2008 - 08:50 AM
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I believe that faith and reason are compatible. It was reason that led us to faith. The questions of where we come from, where we go, death and the universe etc was the beginning of questioning that led to reason. Faith to me does not mean being born in a particular religion or observing religious observances. It is man's faith in himself and in the universe. A true man of faith is always logical, reasonable and free from superstitions , fanatism etc.
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Mohamed Eid
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Re: [Poll] Faith and reason: are they compatible?
September 8, 2008 - 07:16 AM
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Many people don’t reality investigate in-depth, the reason behind why we grow up from weak condition to strongest condition, from strongest condition to weakest condition, to understand clear. The life in this world is a like a traveller who is crossing a main road, he could breaks only while verifying the road is clear or not. If you’re someone belong to any religion or secularism, why do we die? Why don’t you protect yourself from death or growing old? Please, base on your debate very clear and concise evidence
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Hafiidhaturrahmah
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Re: [Poll] Faith and reason: are they compatible?
October 4, 2008 - 06:48 AM
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wow...very nice discussion. sorry for coming late ^_^
for me, there is no compactible from faith and reason.
faith...just faith...and we do need reason
or we want to find reason just for faith ??!!??
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Mohamed Eid
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Re: [Poll] Faith and reason: are they compatible?
October 14, 2008 - 01:19 AM
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Which one Faith and reason, do you think dominate the other?
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Ute
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Re: [Poll] Faith and reason: are they compatible?
October 15, 2008 - 05:12 AM
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Its not really faith and reason, more so passion and reason. When you find something you are passionate about you become very headstrong and occasionally irrational because you know you aren't wrong and cannot be wrong!
People who believe in God feel they have to prove his existence, while those who don't feel they have to prove he doesn't exist.
If they both decide to leave each other alone, faith and reason would co-exist.
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the1ultimate
连接： Nov 6, 2008
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Re: [Poll] Faith and reason: are they compatible?
November 17, 2008 - 05:56 AM
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A few people seem to be forgetting that science is still an imperfect model of the universe. While science's gaps still remain so large, I think there is still room for faith.
Modern religion is an anachronism, something born of a time when all it took to sway the masses was a funny hat.
As regards to God though, I think some people are missing the point, which is that if god can do anything (see omnipotent), then you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a well-hidden god, and no god at all.
The Short Answer: Yes.
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V0llEY
连接： Oct 28, 2008
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Re: [Poll] Faith and reason: are they compatible?
December 7, 2008 - 10:01 PM
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As it stands.
God - Theory
Science - Proven/Tested/Works
Book telling me I have something to look forward to when I die or not look forward to if I am evil.
Book showing me and giving explanations on how things are done and work to better myself and get a greater understanding.
Book written in so many versions and so many mis translations and words that have been changed to fit past kings or past so called holy mens ideals.
Christianity is coming to an end.
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Saladin
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Re: [Poll] Faith and reason: are they compatible?
December 17, 2008 - 09:51 AM
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Actually Arnol Mol gave a brilliant explanation, using reason, that the Qur'an is not the work of mankind...
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V0llEY
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Re: [Poll] Faith and reason: are they compatible?
December 17, 2008 - 09:18 PM
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aymanelhakea wrote:
Actually Arnol Mol gave a brilliant explanation, using reason, that the Qur'an is not the work of mankind...
care to elaborate on that...
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