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Arnold Mol
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Quran Vs. Muslim behaviour: Examples of how some Muslims ignore the Quran
June 5, 2008 - 03:26 PM
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The BBC reported:
Danish cartoons 'plotters' held
Danish police have arrested three people suspected of planning to attack a cartoonist who drew caricatures satirising the Prophet Muhammad.
Intelligence agents said two Tunisians and a Dane of Moroccan origin had been arrested in Aarhus at 0330 GMT "to prevent a murder linked to terrorism".
The editor of the newspaper that first published the caricatures said he had been deeply shaken by news of the plot.
The pictures printed by Jyllands-Posten sparked violent protests two years ago.
Danish embassies were attacked around the world and dozens died in riots.
'Concrete plans'
In a statement, the head of the Danish Security and Intelligence Service (PET), Jakob Sharf, said its operatives had carried out pre-dawn raids in the Aarhus region.
The detentions of the three suspects had been made "after lengthy surveillance", he added.
The Danish citizen will be released pending further investigation, while the Tunisians will be held until they are expelled from the country.
The PET did not identify the target of the alleged plot, but the online edition of Jyllands-Posten said its cartoonist, Kurt Westergaard, was the focus.
The newspaper, based in Aarhus, said Mr Westergaard, 73, and his 66-year-old wife, Gitte, had been under police protection for the past three months.
In a statement on Jyllands-Posten's website, Mr Westergaard said: "Of course I fear for my life when the police intelligence service say that some people have concrete plans to kill me.
"But I have turned fear into anger and resentment."
The editor of Jyllands-Posten, Carsten Juste, said he and his staff had been "deeply shaken" by the news.
"We'd become more or less used to death threats and bomb threats since the cartoons, but it's the first time that we've heard about actual murder plans - that's new," he said.
Muslim anger
The BBC's Thomas Buch-Andersen in Copenhagen says the arrests have stunned people in Denmark, where the furore over the cartoons was thought to have passed.
The caricature featured the head of Islam's holiest prophet with a turban depicting a bomb with a lit fuse.
The cartoons were later reprinted by more than 50 newspapers, triggering a wave of protests in parts of the Muslim world.
The demonstrations culminated a year ago with the torching of Danish diplomatic offices in Damascus and Beirut and dozens of deaths in Nigeria, Libya and Pakistan.
This post was edited on: 2008-06-05 at 03:26 PM by: ArnoldYasin
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Arnold Mol
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Re: Quran Vs. Muslim behaviour: Examples of how some Muslims ignore the Quran
June 5, 2008 - 03:28 PM
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Although I believe it is a crime to attack or ridicule people's beliefs in any form as was done by the cartoonists, it can in no way be accepted that the cartoonist deserves death or any other form of punishment.
This goes directly against the Quran:
5:32 On that account, We decreed to the Children of Israel (the Eternal Moral Ordinance for all humanity 2:178) that whoever kills a human being, unless it be for murder or bloody crimes on the earth, it would be as if he killed all mankind. And whoever saves one life it would be as if
he saved the life of all mankind. And Our messengers came to them with evident truth, yet, even after this, many of them continue to commit excesses in the land.
These people act directly the opposite of the Quran. The Quran never says to kill or harm anyone that offends Islam or the Quran or the Prophet. Although many people, Muslim or non-Muslim, have the idea that the Quran is agressive towards opponents but the text shows the opposite and this concept of violence and hate can not be found anywhere in the text. The Quran only allows self-defence in the case of war against the assautling army but never aggression nor revenge against non-Muslims. Sadly Muslims have fallen into a victim-psychology where they ignore the Quranic text and try to justify aggression and hatred using dubious historical texts as Hadith, which have been mostly written 200 years after the Prophet Muhammed, or base it purely on the commands of certain radical scholars in the past and present
Instead of reforming their socio-economical and political situations themselves, they blame their low status and oppression mostly on the Western powers which came to dominate them in the 19th and 20th century. This blame is mostly unjustified, as although the occupations were wrong, the Western countries only took advantage of the already present weakness among the Muslim people which was formed through the allowed abuse by their leaders and clergy.
This victim attitude combined with the anger created through the oppression in Palestine has allowed a very aggressive and untolerant version of Muslim attitude to emerge and to influence all sects in Islam in one way or another.
This is in a sense the root cause of the wrongs commited by Muslims in this day and age.
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Arnold Mol
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Re: Quran Vs. Muslim behaviour: Examples of how some Muslims ignore the Quran
June 5, 2008 - 03:29 PM
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The riots and now this murder plot against a person who has "insulted" Islam through drawing some cartoons is a result of the above mentioned factors. But these behaviours and violations go directly against the Quranic message.
When it comes to insulting Islam or Muslims:
28:55 (Additionally) whenever they hear vain talk of ridicule, they withdraw from it decently and say, "To us our deeds and to you yours; Peace be upon you, we do not seek to join the ignorant.”
25:63 The true servants of the Beneficent are those who walk upon the
earth humbly, and when the ignorant ones address them, they say, "Peace!"
The above 2 verses give a very clear command on how to act when being confronted by insults or ridicule.
Even when we look at the historical records concerning the Prophet Muhammed, sources that are deemed by most Muslim sects as having as much authority as the Quran itself although they are written 200 years after the Prophet, a very clear picture emerges where he upheld the above verses during his whole life. When he was confronted with insults and ridicule, he never turned aggressive nor took revenge on the people. He remained peacefull and polite to them, even after he had risen in power.
The riots that destroyed a Danish Embassy is also a clear violation against the Quranic message as the Quran says:
53:38-39
- i That no laden one shall bear the load of another.
- ii And that every human being shall be responsible for, and compensated for, his labor.
So Denmark and agencies and people coming from Denmark can never be held responsible for the deeds of a fellow countryman. This also counts for the decision made by a government, which the citizens cannot be held responsible for.
It is thus clearly shown that both the murder plot and the riots are non-Islamic behaviours and do not reflect the Quranic message but the delussion and rejection of the Quranic message by the Muslims themselves.
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Saladin
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Re: Quran Vs. Muslim behaviour: Examples of how some Muslims ignore the Quran
June 6, 2008 - 04:52 PM
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Very thoughtful insights Arnold.
Straight to the point.
Actually I am a practising Muslim from Egypt, and I shall address my experience with the Danish cartoons dilemma in this podium.
In late 2005-beginnings of 2006, when the anti-Muslim cartoon crisis erupted, me and my family, we thought about doing something useful for Islam and Muslims from one part, and non-Muslims as well from the other part.
We came to the decision to host a Danish exchange student in Alexandria, Egypt. This student stayed with us for 7 months, worked as a volunteer in the Bibliotheca Alexandrina, travelled through the country, explored its lores, cultures, and traditions, and had a "concrete" experience about Islam and Muslims.
Nevertheless, I think of that behavior from my family's part as a purely Islamic behavior, pursuant to the Qur'anic verse translating as follows:
125. Invite (mankind, O Muhammad (S) ) to the Way of your Lord (i.e. Islâm) with wisdom (i.e. with the Divine Inspiration and the Qur'ân) and fair preaching, and argue with them in a way that is better. Truly, your Lord knows best who has gone astray from His Path, and He is the Best Aware of those who are guided.
Peace,
Ayman
This post was edited on: 2008-06-06 at 05:06 PM by: aymanelhakea
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Mohamed Eid
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Re: Quran Vs. Muslim behaviour: Examples of how some Muslims ignore the Quran
August 4, 2008 - 03:53 AM
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Quran and Muslim don’t contradict with one another, sometimes if the person doesn’t know well Quran and its translation, the reason revealed, when and where and not read with facilitating and other verses explaining, may be he can handle something wrong, But Mr. Arnold Mol, the verses you taken are true, but, it is applied other occasions. The dilemma of Prophet Muhammed P.A.B.O.H is a great crime, look the verse you’ve taken earlier the next two verse. (The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom;{5:33}, Save those who repent before ye overpower them. For know that Allah is Forgiving, Merciful {5:34}). There are blunt verses and Hadith denoting the abuse of the prophet and the judgment that can be taken.
Although this verse portrays general abuse, it can be direct war, war of moths or pen. All of those things are violence and impolite, if you have a conscience you’ve to take actions against that dilemma.
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Arnold Mol
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Re: Quran Vs. Muslim behaviour: Examples of how some Muslims ignore the Quran
August 4, 2008 - 04:47 AM
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Salaam Eid,
The verse you mentions refers to self-defense of a country and its people. They have nothing to do with, for example, public mockery of the Prophet.
The Quran is clear, when people mock you, say Salam and walk away. It never says you must use violence.
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Mohamed Eid
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Re: Quran Vs. Muslim behaviour: Examples of how some Muslims ignore the Quran
August 5, 2008 - 11:28 AM
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Believes and spirituality Islam are core values of the real Muslim person. If you meet someone making trouble your religious value, you’ve a right to do the best action. But you’ve to look its pros and cons of that particular issue, if the feed back is worse then the actions you’re going to launch, you should leave it.
Let us, stick to the points, there is no versus among the Muslim person and his/her religion, unless the person couldn’t understand the essence of what kind of respond he/she is going to reward some sort of action.
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Hafiidhaturrahmah
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Re: Quran Vs. Muslim behaviour: Examples of how some Muslims ignore the Quran
October 4, 2008 - 07:33 AM
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this thing happened again, still same country.
in Indonesia, a bid demontration happened by this cause.
and by this big demo also...foreign buyer in stock exchange sold out the stock.
as my personal approach, i will do something that i can do as far as i really can do (sorry for hyperbol words)
maybe I couldnt do a real thing for this
but I hope my pray will be come true...for a better world with respect each others
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Mohamed Eid
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Re: Quran Vs. Muslim behaviour: Examples of how some Muslims ignore the Quran
October 5, 2008 - 05:12 AM
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The Quran is the only miracle thing, that unite the hearts of all human in the world, if they fully practise it. We Muslim people know that, and Quran can simply adopt and use in any circumstances. But the misery thing is, the human habits and personal behaviour.
Quran have the solution of that, it is just true follow and regular exercising in any situation, if we do so, I have many missing solutions around the world could be get easly.
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Saladin
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Re: Quran Vs. Muslim behaviour: Examples of how some Muslims ignore the Quran
December 18, 2008 - 05:59 PM
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EI wrote:
Quran and Muslim don’t contradict with one another, sometimes if the person doesn’t know well Quran and its translation, the reason revealed, when and where and not read with facilitating and other verses explaining, may be he can handle something wrong, But Mr. Arnold Mol, the verses you taken are true, but, it is applied other occasions. The dilemma of Prophet Muhammed P.A.B.O.H is a great crime, look the verse you’ve taken earlier the next two verse. (The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom;{5:33}, Save those who repent before ye overpower them. For know that Allah is Forgiving, Merciful {5:34}). There are blunt verses and Hadith denoting the abuse of the prophet and the judgment that can be taken.
Although this verse portrays general abuse, it can be direct war, war of moths or pen. All of those things are violence and impolite, if you have a conscience you’ve to take actions against that dilemma.
Eid, if you are suggesting that this is a general punishment to those who abused the prophet, then I have no choice but to step in with some comments.
The word referred to as "make war" in the verse is equivalent to the verb "yuharibun", in Arabic, from the noun "Hirabah". "Harb" is war, in Arabic, but Hirabah is something different. It means carrying out extraordinarily brutal crimes against inncoent secure helpless people. The verse includes a warning to those carrying out these acts of terror, that their actions are regarded as assaulting Allah and His messenger.
The medieval Muslim scholar Ibn Taymiyah, known for his adherence to fundamentalism, stressed in his book "Iqtida'ul Sirah", that any Muslim harming any non-Muslim living under Muslim rule; should be dealt with as someone committing Hirabah. This was at a time when Muslims in Spain were slaughtered if they dared to remove the pork chunks put by the Spanish Inquisitions, from their home entrances.
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Saladin
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Cont'd
December 18, 2008 - 06:00 PM
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The verse itself has a context. It narrates the story of some nomads who sought the protection of the Muslims. They were found sick in the desert, in a desperate condition, and Muhammad (s) agreed to their demands to stay in a creek near Medina, until they heal. He even sent his camels and his shepheard with the nomads, so that they could drink the healthy camel milk.
After those nomads healed, they brutally crucified the Prophet's shepheard, cut his hands and feet, and penetrated hot iron in his eyes, before seizing the camels and escaping to the desert. Later on, the Muslims knew about everything, and their cavalry patrols were able to capture the suspects and bring them to the Prophet (s). When they confessed, this verse was revealed to Muhammad (s).
I believe that this verse contains very important elements of the evolution of societies. It indicated several choices with respect to the just penalty of Hirabah.
In the 7th century Arabia, in that particular case, either of the first three choices: To kill, or crucify, or cut off opposite side hands and feet, would be considered a just penalty, no one complained about it back then. However, if these penalties are not just in the 21st century, the verse opened the door for those culprits to be "sent away from the land", which is equivalent to "imprisonment".
Muslims need to understand that Islam is made to suit all societies and all times. This is the central issue.
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Arnold Mol
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Re: Quran Vs. Muslim behaviour: Examples of how some Muslims ignore the Quran
December 19, 2008 - 01:59 PM
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Salaam,
Very well put. The problem with many Muslims is that they neglect context of verses, do not know the Arabic used and so rely their judgement on very limited and faulty translations.
And more importantly, they create contradictions by neglecting other verses. For example, the verses clearly say that when people insult you, you must say Salaam/Peace! and walk away.
So to say the Qur'an or any hadith orders us to attack anyone mocking the Prophet is a clear contradiction with the Qur'anic verses mentioned.
If the Qur'an ordered the prophet himself to say peace and walk away, how are we then to do the opposite?
Muslims must wake up and stop with this blind following of Imams and traditions.
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