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Sockit2Ya
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US soldier removed from Iraq for shooting at a Quran
May 18, 2008 - 10:21 PM
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BAGHDAD - An American sniper was removed from Iraq after he used a copy of the Quran for target practice, the military said Sunday, a day after a U.S. commander held a formal ceremony apologizing to Sunni tribal leaders.
The elaborate ceremony — in which one U.S. officer kissed a new copy of Islam's holy book before giving it to the tribal leaders — reflected the military's eagerness to stave off anger among Sunni Arabs it has been cultivating as allies.
The tribesmen have become key in the fight against al-Qaida in Iraq militants, who depict the American forces as anti-Islamic occupiers. One anti-U.S. Iraqi Sunni group condemned the Quran shooting, calling it "a hideous act." Similar perceived insults to Islam have triggered protests throughout the Muslim world.
American commanders launched an inquiry that led to disciplinary action against the unidentified soldier, who has been removed from Iraq, Buckner said.
Members of the local U.S.-allied group said the Quran was found with 14 bullet holes in a field after U.S. troops withdrew from a base in the area.
Sheik Ahmed Khudayer al-Janabi, a local tribal leader, said the group had planned a protest march last Thursday but called it off under pressure from U.S. forces and to prevent any insurgent violence as retaliation.
"I come before you here seeking your forgiveness," Maj. Gen. Jeffery Hammond was quoted as saying at the ceremony. "In the most humble manner I look in your eyes today and I say please forgive me and my soldiers."
"The actions of one soldier were nothing more than criminal behavior," he added. "I've come to this land to protect you, to support you — not to harm you — and the behavior of this soldier was nothing short of wrong and unacceptable."
Tribal leaders, dignitaries and local security officials attended the ceremony, while protesters carried banners and chanted slogans, including "Yes, yes to the Quran" and "America out, out."
The military statement called the incident "serious and deeply troubling" but stressed it was the result of one soldier's actions and "not representative of the professionalism of our soldiers or the respect they have for all faiths."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080518/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq
Criminal behaviour for shooting at a Quran? Or is this just another example of appeasing Muslims not to kill over something so trivial?
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Arslan Jumaniyazov
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Re: US soldier removed from Iraq for shooting at a Quran
May 19, 2008 - 12:27 AM
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Something so trivial?? Steve, thanks for showing your true face!
Putting this debate whether shooting at the Qur'an is trivial or not, let us first ask ourselves one question. Isn't there anything else in the world to use as a target practice that that US soldier used the Muslim Holy Book? Or was it a coincidence that he somehow mistakenly grabbed a copy of the Qur'an to use it for a target practice?
Steve, don't you see that the pathologically sick and racist person was driven by his hatred for the country he was invading? An invading troop who shows absolute contempt for the Holy Book of the indigenous people is a criminal.
I am sure that sadistic racist would be more than happy to shoot at anyone who follows the Qur'an too. So, I am glad he was removed from Iraq.
Arslan
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Sockit2Ya
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Re: US soldier removed from Iraq for shooting at a Quran
May 19, 2008 - 05:34 PM
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Putting this debate whether shooting at the Qur'an is trivial or not, let us first ask ourselves one question. Isn't there anything else in the world to use as a target practice that that US soldier used the Muslim Holy Book? Or was it a coincidence that he somehow mistakenly grabbed a copy of the Qur'an to use it for a target practice?
Steve, don't you see that the pathologically sick and racist person was driven by his hatred for the country he was invading? An invading troop who shows absolute contempt for the Holy Book of the indigenous people is a criminal.
I am sure that sadistic racist would be more than happy to shoot at anyone who follows the Qur'an too. So, I am glad he was removed from Iraq.
Arslan
Arslan, does this not show the true face of Islam's followers, that they would kill over something like this? Shoot at a Bible, see if Christians will react with violence and death threats. It's not going to happen.
The point is not how trivial it was, it is the type of reaction something like this could have set off, especially in a place like Iraq where religious inspired violence is commonplace.
I do not agree that the soldier was sick or a racist, I mean, if you witnessed innocent people being blown up, kidnapped, tortured and murdered everyday because of sectarian hatreds and Islamic extremists, I can totally understand him having a negative view of the Koran.
I can clearly remember the news story of the British schoolteacher in Sudan that allowed one of her young students to name a teddy bear 'Mohammed' and angry mobs of Muslims in the streets calling for her execution.
It was trivial and they wanted to kill over it.
I thought the religion was supposed to be tolerant and peaceful, but some of its followers make me wonder how that is the case.
This post was edited on: 2008-05-19 at 06:01 PM by: stevew
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Arslan Jumaniyazov
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Re: US soldier removed from Iraq for shooting at a Quran
May 19, 2008 - 06:07 PM
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Steve,
I totally agree with you in the case of Teddy Bear in Sudan. That really was a trivial issue, and I personally didn't see anything wrong with that. And the reaction in Sudan was really condemnable.
But this case is quite different. And it will be quite different if I shoot at a Bible (something I will never do). But if Iraqi troops were occupying the United States, and an Iraqi soldier used the Bible--or something else that Americans hold dear, for example a US flag--as a target practice, I highly doubt you would call it a trivial issue.
Steve, it is not.
Arslan
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Sockit2Ya
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Re: US soldier removed from Iraq for shooting at a Quran
May 20, 2008 - 10:53 AM
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If U.S. troops were using Iraqi civilians as targets or were shooting at mosques, then that would not be trivial.
Even shooting at a Quran is not so trivial since so many people in Iraq are willing to kill over something like that.
In another news column I read today about this, the Iraqi cabinet warned of 'grave consequences' if something like this happened again.
I can only imagine what those consequnces would be.
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Arslan Jumaniyazov
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Re: US soldier removed from Iraq for shooting at a Quran
May 20, 2008 - 11:03 AM
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Steve,
I asked you a simple question. Suppose the roles were reversed. Iraq is occupying the United States. An Iraqi soldier is using something Americans hold dear as a target practice. Would you consider it such a trivial issue?
Arslan
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Sockit2Ya
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Re: US soldier removed from Iraq for shooting at a Quran
May 20, 2008 - 12:45 PM
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Yes, I honestly believe that shooting at a flag or a Bible is a trivial issue.
If a foreign country invaded Canada and shot at a Canadian flag, that would be the least of my worries, it's a flag, a piece of cloth, and someone burning or shooting it would not make me murder someone else.
I would take a proactive approach to it, I would not start lynching people in protest. I would concentrate on real issues and concerns.
I would think same would be true if a foreign country invaded the U.S., but I can not say because I am not an American.
That's how I see this issue. I am not condoning it, I just can not understand why people can restort to violence over something like this.
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aseel
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Re: US soldier removed from Iraq for shooting at a Quran
May 20, 2008 - 02:22 PM
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I would have to say that maybe this is sth trivial for you but stevew for us muslems it is sth so important,its our holly book after all..i am not with violant reactions by no means i am with solving problems and misunderstandings in a diplomatic way,yet in my eyes this soldier did do sth that is taken as an offense by us muslems..but still that is an individual act and no one should be killed for it even the soldier himslef..the thing is that under such circumstances and because of the way that many of our islamic icons has been viewed in the west starting form the way our prophit has been portraited in the cartoons at Denmark to this incident you should understand that muslems feelings are being provoced everyday..at least we shld have the right to protest!!!!!!!
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Arslan Jumaniyazov
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Re: US soldier removed from Iraq for shooting at a Quran
May 20, 2008 - 03:26 PM
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asooleh87 wrote:
I would have to say that maybe this is sth trivial for you but stevew for us muslems it is sth so important,its our holly book after all..i am not with violant reactions by no means i am with solving problems and misunderstandings in a diplomatic way,yet in my eyes this soldier did do sth that is taken as an offense by us muslems..but still that is an individual act and no one should be killed for it even the soldier himslef..the thing is that under such circumstances and because of the way that many of our islamic icons has been viewed in the west starting form the way our prophit has been portraited in the cartoons at Denmark to this incident you should understand that muslems feelings are being provoced everyday..at least we shld have the right to protest!!!!!!!
A perfect comment, Aseel!
Arslan
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Sockit2Ya
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Re: US soldier removed from Iraq for shooting at a Quran
May 21, 2008 - 11:42 AM
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I appreciate your stance about reacting peacefully but a lot of people who also consider the Quran holy are the same people that get justification from the book for acts of violence.
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Arslan Jumaniyazov
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Re: US soldier removed from Iraq for shooting at a Quran
May 21, 2008 - 03:22 PM
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Steve,
Do you really expect people believe in what you say? There is no doubt, if Canada was invaded by Iraq--and Canadians were suffering from Iraqi raids and humiliations on a daily basis--you would not only be in favor of killing invaders but also attacking the mainland Iraq.
Likewise, if America was invaded by Iraq, overwhelming majority of Americans, including liberals and leftists, would be in favor of punishing invaders in the most ruthless manners. There is just no doubt about that.
Arslan
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Sockit2Ya
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Re: US soldier removed from Iraq for shooting at a Quran
May 21, 2008 - 11:18 PM
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I would support the invasion of my country if it was ruled by a genocidal dictator and me and my family lived in a constant state of fear and oppression by my own government.
Wouldn't you?
Why do you think Sunnis are now starting to fight with U.S. and British forces and not against them?
They are starting to come to their senses that the so-called 'invaders' are actually on their side.
It's common sense.
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Arslan Jumaniyazov
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Re: US soldier removed from Iraq for shooting at a Quran
May 22, 2008 - 10:56 AM
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I would support the invasion of my country if it was ruled by a genocidal dictator and me and my family lived in a constant state of fear and oppression by my own government.
Wouldn't you?
I would welcome a legitimate force--an internationally recognized force that is not driven by self-interest and hypocritical goals--if there is an ongoing genocidal campaign or an immediate threat of it. In 2003, it was not the case in Iraq. It was the case in 1988-89, and in 1991 when the Operation Desert Storm was over. In the first case, as we all know know by looking at internal discussions, the United States deliberately tried to blame Iran for Halabja because Saddam was a friend. In the second case, Bush Sr. initially called for the overthrow of Saddam's regime, and then simply left Iraqis on their own to do it.
Why do you think Sunnis are now starting to fight with U.S. and British forces and not against them?
Two reasons. One is that it is the Americans who realized that they need to be friends with them and offering them lots of money. Second is that the Iraqis--whether Sunni or Shi'a--are not going to welcome Al-Qaeda either. The fact that they are against American invasion doesn't mean that they welcome an invasion by Al-Qaeda. And the fact that they are fighting Al-Qaeda doesn't mean that they are going to be friends with the US/UK.
They are starting to come to their senses that the so-called 'invaders' are actually on their side.
There is nothing "so-called" about it. They are invaders, and that is common sense.
Arslan
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Sockit2Ya
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Re: US soldier removed from Iraq for shooting at a Quran
May 22, 2008 - 12:39 PM
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I would welcome a legitimate force--an internationally recognized force that is not driven by self-interest and hypocritical goals--if there is an ongoing genocidal campaign or an immediate threat of it. In 2003, it was not the case in Iraq.
So you believe that Saddam Hussein should not have been overthrown and bought to justice for crimes against humanity because his genocidal crimes were just a 'thing of the past'?
Remember, Iraqis did celebrate when Saddam fell and 12 million of them voted. That is significant as well.
Two reasons. One is that it is the Americans who realized that they need to be friends with them and offering them lots of money. Second is that the Iraqis--whether Sunni or Shi'a--are not going to welcome Al-Qaeda either. The fact that they are against American invasion doesn't mean that they welcome an invasion by Al-Qaeda. And the fact that they are fighting Al-Qaeda doesn't mean that they are going to be friends with the US/UK.
Yes, lots of money to fight the terrorists who are blowing up their fellow Iraqis everyday. Personally, I would not need the lure of money to protect my fellow countrymen from the threat of terrorism.
But I do not think it's all about money. I think Sunnis that were previously fighting for al-Qaida now realize that if they want a better Iraq free from terrorism and death, they need to work with coalition forces instead of fighting against them.
Again, it's common sense. That's why American forces are still in Iraq and why they can not leave.
This post was edited on: 2008-05-22 at 12:54 PM by: stevew
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Slick Frenzy
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Re: US soldier removed from Iraq for shooting at a Quran
May 23, 2008 - 02:55 PM
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"Steve, don't you see that the pathologically sick and racist person was driven by his hatred for the country he was invading? An invading troop who shows absolute contempt for the Holy Book of the indigenous people is a criminal."
Shooting the so called Holy Book is bad form. the circumstances and the blind judgement of the soldier is irrellevent though. except from an ideolog's point of view.
By way of contrast, I wonder how many Christians in Islamic States share the same privilage of a slap on the wrist for beind discovered with a Holy Bible? How many Christians are killed for uttering the name of Christ? And yet none of those stories every make a newspaper...why? becuase there is zero politically fodder in those stories. afterall, one less christian...good riddance, right?
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