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Justin Wrubel
连接： Oct 18, 2004
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Re: THESAME SEX MARRIAGE RIGHT OR WRONG?
June 1, 2009 - 01:45 PM
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Thanks Daniella. I think we're on the same page in that we both think that people should try and be open minded and objective when making assumptions or judgements about the lives of others when they cannot have that subjective experience themselves. Read different books, engage in discussion with different people; only draw on conclusions once you've explored every avenue of thought.
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Daniella Fanitsa Mickelson
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Re: THESAME SEX MARRIAGE RIGHT OR WRONG?
June 1, 2009 - 01:54 PM
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Yes I have the same feelings, like I understand if someone has certain morals, but when people assume right from the gecko that the their way is the right way, that is a very egotistic point of view.
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Ibukun
连接： Jan 27, 2007
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Re: THESAME SEX MARRIAGE RIGHT OR WRONG?
June 4, 2009 - 12:11 PM
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It depends on your definition of what is right. It is in your own religion that you have such commandment and some others. Some people do not practice these religion and I suppose you believe in equity and justice. then you will be denying those in this category their rights if you say it is ungodly to practice what they believe.
Religion is different from human rights.
In case you want to know, I'm a Christian.
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Mohamed Eid
连接： Jun 29, 2007
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Re: THESAME SEX MARRIAGE RIGHT OR WRONG?
June 4, 2009 - 12:41 PM
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dainfinity wrote:
*
Religion is different from human rights.
In case you want to know, I'm a Christian.
I believe you do not know anything about religions, since you are saying this quote. Religions have been revealed to keep the rights of people. The knowledge that I have learned the holly Quran is so great about religions and histories of earlier religions and what the religions revealed. I have read the Quran fundamental human rights of people that states in constitutions and human right declaration, all Abraham regions had agreed to keep the human rights. But today people follow their own wishes and needs not respect religions and not respect the good nature characters that every person original born.
There’s no religion that Allah revealed and then legalize or allow same sex marriage, this is something that the moral and fit characters would not accept at anyhow. There is no advantage within the same sex marriage, but it something shame that harm the superiority and dignity of the person. Those lobbying and supporting same sex marriage really are distorting the real meaning of marriage and the role of families in the community and even the national status.
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Justin Wrubel
连接： Oct 18, 2004
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Re: THESAME SEX MARRIAGE RIGHT OR WRONG?
June 4, 2009 - 07:13 PM
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With all due respect, I think the point that dainfinity, myself, and others have made is that same-sex marriage is more of a civil, human rights issue than a religious issue. We have to remember that religions are born out of culture, not the other way around, and the Qu'ran is no different (the first instance of the Qu'ran was made in 610 CE; after the Bible and well after the first democracies which instituted civil and human rights were formed).
Since human and civil rights are a product of government (country and state legislation) which is a concept that pre-dates organized religion, marriage, or civil union is within the rights of each individual living in that demoratic state.
Just because someone believes in a religion doesn't mean everyone else does or should follow the same religious beliefs. If it is a "sin" in your church, than same-sex unions won't be performed there, but you cannot deny someone their human rights because you don't agree with a lifestyle choice that doesn't affect you or anyone else outside the family.
I am curious with some points that were mentioned.
If same-sex unions fall under the Code of Human Rights, and there is a biological basis (meaning you can't just switch your sexuality on and off), how is it morally or fundamentally wrong?
How does homosexuality strip the person of their dignity if they are just being themselves (or, put into other words, how God made them)?
Since when did "the role of the family" become so polarized. That is a very big statement. That is saying that only heterosexual couples are capable of raising good family's (which is completely untrue, otherswise there wouldn't be so many cases of marital and child abuse, and the divorce rate wouldn't be 50%). Some people forget that it is a bigger "sin" in the eyes of the church to divorce than anything else, yet people can do it with freedom while a large group of people can't receive equal human rights under the law (which is seperate from religion).
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prieten47
连接： Oct 26, 2006
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Re: THESAME SEX MARRIAGE RIGHT OR WRONG?
June 8, 2009 - 02:55 AM
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EI wrote:
dainfinity wrote:
*
Religion is different from human rights.
In case you want to know, I'm a Christian.
I believe you do not know anything about religions, since you are saying this quote. Religions have been revealed to keep the rights of people. The knowledge that I have learned the holly Quran is so great about religions and histories of earlier religions and what the religions revealed. I have read the Quran fundamental human rights of people that states in constitutions and human right declaration, all Abraham regions had agreed to keep the human rights. But today people follow their own wishes and needs not respect religions and not respect the good nature characters that every person original born.
There’s no religion that Allah revealed and then legalize or allow same sex marriage, this is something that the moral and fit characters would not accept at anyhow. There is no advantage within the same sex marriage, but it something shame that harm the superiority and dignity of the person. Those lobbying and supporting same sex marriage really are distorting the real meaning of marriage and the role of families in the community and even the national status.
Mr. Eid, we shouldn't forget that religion has often not respected human rights in the past. European history is full of religious wars, inquisitions, witch-burnings, and in modern times religious figures have fought equal rights and access to contraception and abortion for women.
Modern day Islamic countries where various kinds of Sharia law have been imposed also discriminate against women in the areas of family life, contract law and inheritance.
I am sure religion can also be a force for good, but we shouldn't assume this is always the case.
If a country decides that marriage should be given advantageous status versus being single, then marriage should be open to both homosexuals and heterosexuals. It's only fair.
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muoka
连接： Jul 13, 2009
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Re: THESAME SEX MARRIAGE RIGHT OR WRONG?
July 27, 2009 - 03:04 AM
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Very interesting topic, My opinion is that marriage should be kept strictly between a man and a woman. Why do people marry? Who came up with the idea of marriage and why? If we can answer these two questions soberly then its obvious that same sex marriage is wrong.
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Justin Wrubel
连接： Oct 18, 2004
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Re: THESAME SEX MARRIAGE RIGHT OR WRONG?
July 28, 2009 - 07:17 PM
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Many cultures "invented" marriage centuries before Christianity. For the most part, marriage is considered a contract and was hardly for love, it was a transaction between families for monetary or other currency gains (livestock, land, etc).
Courtly love (romance) that the western world now considers the basis of marriage happened around 12th century (medieval times). For Christians, the notion of marriage as a sacrament and not just a contract can be traced back to St. Paul, who compared the relationship of a husband and wife to that of Christ and his church (Eph. v, 23-32).
So based on the traditional and original theme of marriage and the courtly, romantic theme of marriage, same gender marriage shouldn't be a problem at all. The arguement has been presented already that if Christians don't believe in same gender marriage that is there prerogative. But no singular faith or institution should project their beleifs on others who share different views. we should all be a little more accepting and open minded and let people love one another 
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Daniella Fanitsa Mickelson
连接： Jan 16, 2009
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Re: THESAME SEX MARRIAGE RIGHT OR WRONG?
July 31, 2009 - 11:20 PM
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I think Justin shows a valid point. One must know how to accept others before he or she can truly accept themselves.
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Jennifer Moule
连接： Jul 16, 2009
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Re: THESAME SEX MARRIAGE RIGHT OR WRONG?
August 13, 2009 - 09:53 PM
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I can't believe that I've read some people saying that human rights should not be put before morals. First of all, morals are subjective - they mean something different to everyone. Religious rules are person-made, marriage is person-made and therefore the guidelines are made by PEOPLE.
Not everyone has the same God that is so often cited to have created marriage. People married long before any Christianity ideas came to part. There is NO HARM TO ANYONE to allow gay marriage. It is plain stupidity to say that if we allow gay marriage then everyone will have a same sex marriage. Does that mean disallowing same sex marriage is preventing YOU from having one? Or are you the exception?
Overall I can't believe that so many people on such an open-minded, human rights focused site could be so ignorant about the RIGHTS of gay people to get married. And the rights of a society to not be guided by religion that not everyone conforms to. In my opinion, denying anybody their rights because of who they love deems you too shallow, cruel, and uninformed for such a special place as Taking IT Global.
In fact I just blogged about this, check it out here: http://missjennifer.tigblog.org/post/754565
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Otis
连接： Aug 13, 2009
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Re: THESAME SEX MARRIAGE RIGHT OR WRONG?
August 16, 2009 - 08:22 AM
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While i of course am against this from a religious perspective, i will not use that argument to defend my point. No, wait, one thing before that, the idea of same sex being wrong came before the time of Christianity. Long long before shown in Leviticus 18:22 we are shown that same sex relations are wrong, thus from that same train of thought, same sex marriage would be wrong as well. Now lets attack this with reason. Where are our limits? Yes, i used to agree that people should have a choice and thought those who didnt were too closed minded, but then, i thought what our limits pertaining to choice should be. No other creature naturally goes to another of the same for mating purposes. The only exception to this is where one male animal humps another male animal as a sign of dominance, not because of ANY natural attraction. Thus, this same sex marriage is a human phenomenom brought up through want of power and taboo, a want to be "unique". But think of it, Nature has set for Male and female to combine to form new life. But we want to choose to go against this and have homo relationships. Why? The love i have for my mother is differnt from the love i have for my girlfriend/wife, the love i have for my father is differnt than the love i have for my brother. love takes many forms depending on the context and relation its used in. This argument of marrying someone of the same sex is immoral because there are limits and types of love that should be ubderstood. I love my mother, does that give me the right to marry her? i love my dog, does that mean i should fight for beastiality? where will it stop? when will it stop? we need cease this disturbed way of thinking and realize THERE ARE NATURAL LIMITS IN THIS WORLD. If you can differentaite love for your mother from love for your dog...why cant you differentiate love for one sex differnt from love for another? I have no doubt that a man can truly love another man to a point where he would give anything to see to his well being..... but we must remember that to everything in this world there are laws, we observe our own laws and spit at the laws of nature. People, open you eyes and understand, When will it stop? today same sex, what next? when will we ba satisfied? there is much more i can say but i'll stop for now and wait for a reply....
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!xotîz
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Jennifer Moule
连接： Jul 16, 2009
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Re: THESAME SEX MARRIAGE RIGHT OR WRONG?
August 16, 2009 - 11:21 AM
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Assuming you are straight, the love YOU feel for the same sex is NOT the same love felt for the same sex by homosexual people. So many people STRUGGLE in the young realization that they feel romantic love for the same sex and not for the opposite sex.
Because so many people realize that they feel romantic and sexual love for the same sex so early, around puberty, tells me that this is not out of the excitement of taboo. Children just hitting puberty want anything but to be different, and so many people struggle with the realization that they still deny themselves as adults, yet they STILL feel it. It is not a confusion of different kinds of love.
Comparing ourselves to animals is narrow minded. Humans have sex for pleasure as well as other reasons, where very few animals do the same. So many people are told to wait until they find someone they truly love (and marry, depends on the discourse) before they have sex. From this, sex is thought of as an ultimate expression of passionate, romantic love. Very very VERY few people are told until they want a child because that's become a great after thought of the purpose of sex. Not even people who wait til marriage are having sex for the sole purpose of procreation.
Thus, if we are telling so many young people to wait until they are truly in love to have sex, we agree that sex is for two people in love. It's not animalistic, based solely on biological drives of procreation. Thus, because homosexual people feel true passionate love for people of the same sex (much like I assume you do for those of the opposite) then it IS completely natural, as HUMANS, to engage in intercourse and marriage.
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Justin Wrubel
连接： Oct 18, 2004
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Re: THESAME SEX MARRIAGE RIGHT OR WRONG?
August 16, 2009 - 12:05 PM
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I agree with Jennifer. I also would like to point out again that attraction all comes back to brain chemistry. Homosexuality IS NOT a choice, it is biological; and yes, it is found in the animal kingdom between various birds, mammals, insects, fish and other species of animals, which is further proof of the biological component of sexuality. Just like one is not born choosing their skin, hair or eye color, you do not choose your level of sexuality either.
I cannot choose to be homosexual or bisexual. I am a heterosexual male and it would be nice if my rights as one were accepted and protected, just like the rights of homosexuals, bisexuals, and transgendered should be accepted and protected.
Here is a more comprehensive list of animals:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior
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Otis
连接： Aug 13, 2009
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Re: THESAME SEX MARRIAGE RIGHT OR WRONG?
August 16, 2009 - 02:50 PM
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neither argument addresses that limit of morality i spoke of. So now the world is an oyster where i can have sex with whatever i want as long as there is love between us? You both failed to mention the difference in the love you have for siblings or family to the love for your lovers of either gender. There is a difference between every human interaction.
On a mental level for love the body releases dopamine(a feel good hormone) in the body when you are around someone/something you like. When the person leaves your body yearns for the feeling the dopamine caused.(you miss the person). As time goes on if you are both still interested in each other you make a commitment to them that you will stay by them no matter what. This commitment can be taken in many shapes and forms, Thus the differnt types of love. Eros, Agape, Physio and Philia. Why are you all so quick to generalize everything to eros, who decides the different between them all? and if we ourselves are the judge then what about those who go out for siblings or animals? And by the way relating us to animals is in no way simple minded because animals are less complexed than we are. Animals live by basic instincts, those instincts we all share whether we want to admit it or not.
Love in all forms differ from each other. If we allow gay marriage, then sibling marriage is next because it is the same principle. If i love my sister why cant i marry her?(thats a serious question). If gay people can be so sure that the love they have for each other contains eros love(erotic love) then why are sibling marriages illegal? I'm not saying you cant love someone of the same sex, but for everything we must have limits.
I refuse to let love be the reason behind every immoral act people use to satisfy themselves in whatever way. the mind set of animals are differnet as i said before, animals do not all have sex for pleasure, there are many different reasons... example... dominance. There must be limits, there must be laws. If same sex marriage is allowed on the concept of love, then sibling marriage and even matters of bestiality will soon start to rise up.
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!xotîz
This post was edited on: 2009-08-16 at 04:01 PM by: Oats162
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Jennifer Moule
连接： Jul 16, 2009
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Re: THESAME SEX MARRIAGE RIGHT OR WRONG?
August 16, 2009 - 03:31 PM
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The biggest problem with your argument, though, is that you seem to think that you know where the "moral" line is. Who are you to decide that homosexual relationships are among the same immorality as sibling relationships. The problem with relying on "morals" is that they are arbitrary, societally determined, and different for various groups of people. It is NOT within my moral guidelines that homosexuality is wrong, and it is NOT within that of many other groups of people. Why, as people not affected by homosexuality, should religious heterosexuals be able to decide what is moral for them?
The fact is that these morals are SOCIETALLY created (through MAN-MADE religious "truths" ) in order to ensure a certain agenda. In fact, certain periods of history promoted same-sex romantic and sexual relationships until groups of people moved in hoping to oppress women through domestic and caregiving roles and promote capitalism through what we now consider the traditional, masculine, bread-winning role in families. Keeping homosexuals powerless, feared, and pathologized in society maintains the rule of a small group of people who think their agenda is more valuable than others'. This is the SAME principle that is behind other types of discrimination such as sexism and racism. To so strongly speak out AGAINST THE RIGHTS of homosexuals is discriminatory and NO BETTER than using religious, scientific, or any other sort of "evidence" against the equality of black people, women, jewish people, or anyone else. Speaking out against the rights of ANY minority group is to speak out against the rights of EVERY minority group.
Doing so greatly stands in the way of making the world a better place, so thanks for putting up some more walls!
This post was edited on: 2009-08-16 at 05:06 PM by: missjennifer
This post was edited on: 2009-08-16 at 05:07 PM by: missjennifer
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