TIGed

Switch headers Switch to TIGweb.org

Are you an TIG Member?
Click here to switch to TIGweb.org


Home Community Discussion BoardsIssuesHuman RightsTHESAME SEX MARRIAGE RIGHT OR WRONG?

« BACK TO FORUM

Discussion Boards Guidelines Discussion Board Guidelines
FAQ

Thread Pages «  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12  »
Author
Post
Mohamed Eid

Joined: Jun 29, 2007
Posts: 153 (view all)
Poster Rank: Chatterbox
User is Offline

Gender & Age: Male, 35
Country: Somalia
Province/State: Woqooyi Galbeed
City: Hargeisa
Re: THESAME SEX MARRIAGE RIGHT OR WRONG?
Jun 4, 2009


dainfinity wrote:

*

Religion is different from human rights.

In case you want to know, I'm a Christian.


I believe you do not know anything about religions, since you are saying this quote. Religions have been revealed to keep the rights of people. The knowledge that I have learned the holly Quran is so great about religions and histories of earlier religions and what the religions revealed. I have read the Quran fundamental human rights of people that states in constitutions and human right declaration, all Abraham regions had agreed to keep the human rights. But today people follow their own wishes and needs not respect religions and not respect the good nature characters that every person original born.

There’s no religion that Allah revealed and then legalize or allow same sex marriage, this is something that the moral and fit characters would not accept at anyhow. There is no advantage within the same sex marriage, but it something shame that harm the superiority and dignity of the person. Those lobbying and supporting same sex marriage really are distorting the real meaning of marriage and the role of families in the community and even the national status.


back to top  |   link to this post
Member Profile EI PROFILE TIG Messenger TIG MESSENGER
Justin Wrubel

Joined: Oct 18, 2004
Posts: 20 (view all)
Poster Rank: Talkative
User is Offline

Gender & Age: Male, 31
Country: Canada
Province/State: Ontario
City: Kitchener
Re: THESAME SEX MARRIAGE RIGHT OR WRONG?
Jun 4, 2009

With all due respect, I think the point that dainfinity, myself, and others have made is that same-sex marriage is more of a civil, human rights issue than a religious issue. We have to remember that religions are born out of culture, not the other way around, and the Qu'ran is no different (the first instance of the Qu'ran was made in 610 CE; after the Bible and well after the first democracies which instituted civil and human rights were formed).

Since human and civil rights are a product of government (country and state legislation) which is a concept that pre-dates organized religion, marriage, or civil union is within the rights of each individual living in that demoratic state.

Just because someone believes in a religion doesn't mean everyone else does or should follow the same religious beliefs. If it is a "sin" in your church, than same-sex unions won't be performed there, but you cannot deny someone their human rights because you don't agree with a lifestyle choice that doesn't affect you or anyone else outside the family.

I am curious with some points that were mentioned.
If same-sex unions fall under the Code of Human Rights, and there is a biological basis (meaning you can't just switch your sexuality on and off), how is it morally or fundamentally wrong?
How does homosexuality strip the person of their dignity if they are just being themselves (or, put into other words, how God made them)?

Since when did "the role of the family" become so polarized. That is a very big statement. That is saying that only heterosexual couples are capable of raising good family's (which is completely untrue, otherswise there wouldn't be so many cases of marital and child abuse, and the divorce rate wouldn't be 50%). Some people forget that it is a bigger "sin" in the eyes of the church to divorce than anything else, yet people can do it with freedom while a large group of people can't receive equal human rights under the law (which is seperate from religion).


back to top  |   link to this post
Member Profile justingeni PROFILE TIG Messenger TIG MESSENGER
muoka

Joined: Jul 13, 2009
Posts: 15 (view all)
Poster Rank:
User is Offline

Age: 35
Country: Kenya
Province/State: Nairobi Area
City: Nairobi
Re: THESAME SEX MARRIAGE RIGHT OR WRONG?
Jul 27, 2009

Very interesting topic, My opinion is that marriage should be kept strictly between a man and a woman. Why do people marry? Who came up with the idea of marriage and why? If we can answer these two questions soberly then its obvious that same sex marriage is wrong.


back to top  |   link to this post
Member Profile bmuoka PROFILE TIG Messenger TIG MESSENGER
Justin Wrubel

Joined: Oct 18, 2004
Posts: 20 (view all)
Poster Rank: Talkative
User is Offline

Gender & Age: Male, 31
Country: Canada
Province/State: Ontario
City: Kitchener
Re: THESAME SEX MARRIAGE RIGHT OR WRONG?
Jul 28, 2009

Many cultures "invented" marriage centuries before Christianity. For the most part, marriage is considered a contract and was hardly for love, it was a transaction between families for monetary or other currency gains (livestock, land, etc).

Courtly love (romance) that the western world now considers the basis of marriage happened around 12th century (medieval times). For Christians, the notion of marriage as a sacrament and not just a contract can be traced back to St. Paul, who compared the relationship of a husband and wife to that of Christ and his church (Eph. v, 23-32).

So based on the traditional and original theme of marriage and the courtly, romantic theme of marriage, same gender marriage shouldn't be a problem at all. The arguement has been presented already that if Christians don't believe in same gender marriage that is there prerogative. But no singular faith or institution should project their beleifs on others who share different views. we should all be a little more accepting and open minded and let people love one another smile


back to top  |   link to this post
Member Profile justingeni PROFILE TIG Messenger TIG MESSENGER
Daniella Fanitsa Mickelson

Joined: Jan 16, 2009
Posts: 70 (view all)
Poster Rank: Talkative
User is Offline

Gender & Age: Female, 26
Country: Canada
Re: THESAME SEX MARRIAGE RIGHT OR WRONG?
Jul 31, 2009

I think Justin shows a valid point. One must know how to accept others before he or she can truly accept themselves.


back to top  |   link to this post
Member Profile dmickelson PROFILE TIG Messenger TIG MESSENGER
Jennifer Moule

Joined: Jul 16, 2009
Posts: 15 (view all)
Poster Rank:
User is Offline

Gender & Age: Female, 30
Country: Canada
Re: THESAME SEX MARRIAGE RIGHT OR WRONG?
Aug 13, 2009

I can't believe that I've read some people saying that human rights should not be put before morals. First of all, morals are subjective - they mean something different to everyone. Religious rules are person-made, marriage is person-made and therefore the guidelines are made by PEOPLE.

Not everyone has the same God that is so often cited to have created marriage. People married long before any Christianity ideas came to part. There is NO HARM TO ANYONE to allow gay marriage. It is plain stupidity to say that if we allow gay marriage then everyone will have a same sex marriage. Does that mean disallowing same sex marriage is preventing YOU from having one? Or are you the exception?

Overall I can't believe that so many people on such an open-minded, human rights focused site could be so ignorant about the RIGHTS of gay people to get married. And the rights of a society to not be guided by religion that not everyone conforms to. In my opinion, denying anybody their rights because of who they love deems you too shallow, cruel, and uninformed for such a special place as Taking IT Global.

In fact I just blogged about this, check it out here: http://missjennifer.tigblog.org/post/754565


back to top  |   link to this post
Member Profile missjennifer PROFILE TIG Messenger TIG MESSENGER
Otis

Joined: Aug 13, 2009
Posts: 22 (view all)
Poster Rank: Talkative
User is Offline

Gender & Age: Male, 27
Country: Jamaica
Province/State: Saint Catherine
City: Spanish Town
Re: THESAME SEX MARRIAGE RIGHT OR WRONG?
Aug 16, 2009

While i of course am against this from a religious perspective, i will not use that argument to defend my point. No, wait, one thing before that, the idea of same sex being wrong came before the time of Christianity. Long long before shown in Leviticus 18:22 we are shown that same sex relations are wrong, thus from that same train of thought, same sex marriage would be wrong as well. Now lets attack this with reason. Where are our limits? Yes, i used to agree that people should have a choice and thought those who didnt were too closed minded, but then, i thought what our limits pertaining to choice should be. No other creature naturally goes to another of the same for mating purposes. The only exception to this is where one male animal humps another male animal as a sign of dominance, not because of ANY natural attraction. Thus, this same sex marriage is a human phenomenom brought up through want of power and taboo, a want to be "unique". But think of it, Nature has set for Male and female to combine to form new life. But we want to choose to go against this and have homo relationships. Why? The love i have for my mother is differnt from the love i have for my girlfriend/wife, the love i have for my father is differnt than the love i have for my brother. love takes many forms depending on the context and relation its used in. This argument of marrying someone of the same sex is immoral because there are limits and types of love that should be ubderstood. I love my mother, does that give me the right to marry her? i love my dog, does that mean i should fight for beastiality? where will it stop? when will it stop? we need cease this disturbed way of thinking and realize THERE ARE NATURAL LIMITS IN THIS WORLD. If you can differentaite love for your mother from love for your dog...why cant you differentiate love for one sex differnt from love for another? I have no doubt that a man can truly love another man to a point where he would give anything to see to his well being..... but we must remember that to everything in this world there are laws, we observe our own laws and spit at the laws of nature. People, open you eyes and understand, When will it stop? today same sex, what next? when will we ba satisfied? there is much more i can say but i'll stop for now and wait for a reply....
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------
!xotîz


back to top  |   link to this post
Member Profile Oats162 PROFILE TIG Messenger TIG MESSENGER
Jennifer Moule

Joined: Jul 16, 2009
Posts: 15 (view all)
Poster Rank:
User is Offline

Gender & Age: Female, 30
Country: Canada
Re: THESAME SEX MARRIAGE RIGHT OR WRONG?
Aug 16, 2009

Assuming you are straight, the love YOU feel for the same sex is NOT the same love felt for the same sex by homosexual people. So many people STRUGGLE in the young realization that they feel romantic love for the same sex and not for the opposite sex.

Because so many people realize that they feel romantic and sexual love for the same sex so early, around puberty, tells me that this is not out of the excitement of taboo. Children just hitting puberty want anything but to be different, and so many people struggle with the realization that they still deny themselves as adults, yet they STILL feel it. It is not a confusion of different kinds of love.

Comparing ourselves to animals is narrow minded. Humans have sex for pleasure as well as other reasons, where very few animals do the same. So many people are told to wait until they find someone they truly love (and marry, depends on the discourse) before they have sex. From this, sex is thought of as an ultimate expression of passionate, romantic love. Very very VERY few people are told until they want a child because that's become a great after thought of the purpose of sex. Not even people who wait til marriage are having sex for the sole purpose of procreation.

Thus, if we are telling so many young people to wait until they are truly in love to have sex, we agree that sex is for two people in love. It's not animalistic, based solely on biological drives of procreation. Thus, because homosexual people feel true passionate love for people of the same sex (much like I assume you do for those of the opposite) then it IS completely natural, as HUMANS, to engage in intercourse and marriage.


back to top  |   link to this post
Member Profile missjennifer PROFILE TIG Messenger TIG MESSENGER
Justin Wrubel

Joined: Oct 18, 2004
Posts: 20 (view all)
Poster Rank: Talkative
User is Offline

Gender & Age: Male, 31
Country: Canada
Province/State: Ontario
City: Kitchener
Re: THESAME SEX MARRIAGE RIGHT OR WRONG?
Aug 16, 2009

I agree with Jennifer. I also would like to point out again that attraction all comes back to brain chemistry. Homosexuality IS NOT a choice, it is biological; and yes, it is found in the animal kingdom between various birds, mammals, insects, fish and other species of animals, which is further proof of the biological component of sexuality. Just like one is not born choosing their skin, hair or eye color, you do not choose your level of sexuality either.
I cannot choose to be homosexual or bisexual. I am a heterosexual male and it would be nice if my rights as one were accepted and protected, just like the rights of homosexuals, bisexuals, and transgendered should be accepted and protected.

Here is a more comprehensive list of animals:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior


back to top  |   link to this post
Member Profile justingeni PROFILE TIG Messenger TIG MESSENGER
Jennifer Moule

Joined: Jul 16, 2009
Posts: 15 (view all)
Poster Rank:
User is Offline

Gender & Age: Female, 30
Country: Canada
Re: THESAME SEX MARRIAGE RIGHT OR WRONG?
Aug 16, 2009

The biggest problem with your argument, though, is that you seem to think that you know where the "moral" line is. Who are you to decide that homosexual relationships are among the same immorality as sibling relationships. The problem with relying on "morals" is that they are arbitrary, societally determined, and different for various groups of people. It is NOT within my moral guidelines that homosexuality is wrong, and it is NOT within that of many other groups of people. Why, as people not affected by homosexuality, should religious heterosexuals be able to decide what is moral for them?

The fact is that these morals are SOCIETALLY created (through MAN-MADE religious "truths" ) in order to ensure a certain agenda. In fact, certain periods of history promoted same-sex romantic and sexual relationships until groups of people moved in hoping to oppress women through domestic and caregiving roles and promote capitalism through what we now consider the traditional, masculine, bread-winning role in families. Keeping homosexuals powerless, feared, and pathologized in society maintains the rule of a small group of people who think their agenda is more valuable than others'. This is the SAME principle that is behind other types of discrimination such as sexism and racism. To so strongly speak out AGAINST THE RIGHTS of homosexuals is discriminatory and NO BETTER than using religious, scientific, or any other sort of "evidence" against the equality of black people, women, jewish people, or anyone else. Speaking out against the rights of ANY minority group is to speak out against the rights of EVERY minority group.

Doing so greatly stands in the way of making the world a better place, so thanks for putting up some more walls!

This post was edited on: 2009-08-16 at 05:06 PM by: missjennifer

This post was edited on: 2009-08-16 at 05:07 PM by: missjennifer


back to top  |   link to this post
Member Profile missjennifer PROFILE TIG Messenger TIG MESSENGER
Jennifer Moule

Joined: Jul 16, 2009
Posts: 15 (view all)
Poster Rank:
User is Offline

Gender & Age: Female, 30
Country: Canada
Re: THESAME SEX MARRIAGE RIGHT OR WRONG?
Aug 16, 2009

Not that it matters, but I am straight. I don't need to be of a racial minority (which I'm not) to stand hard against racism, or a woman (which I am) to fight sexism, or a child (which I no longer am) to advocate for child rights. Do you? Similarly, I don't need to be a sexual minority to stand up for them.

Anyway, what detrimental after effects could possibly result from allowing another marginalized group to have rights? Love should not be regulated by other people or some ancient book (also written by people) that is only prescribed to by some. In what way can whether or not another man or woman is romantically involved with someone of the same sex effect you whatsoever, other than the way your character is compromised by standing in their way? In fact, globally and procreatively speaking, a big current problem of the world is overpopulation. I would argue that standing for homosexual rights is a societal change that benefits and defends not only the RIGHTS of this group of people, but is a pretty good contribution to lessening over-population of the world thus enabling better access to global resources. Evolution can be pretty smart and so can societal discourses.

Aside from that, essentially, in reading your last argument, you've likened yourself to the people who once sent black people to the back of the bus, or those who kept women out of universities. I'm sure those people also argued like you:

You and others in this forum say (the Coles notes version):
"If we accepted homosexuality, what next? There has to a be a line! Next thing you know people will feel "love" for their siblings! We can't just let everyone have gay marriage, how will there be any children? The bible says gay people are sinful and stand only to corrupt the world! History and biology says that people were made for heterosexual sex because of procreation and the way we're made! ANIMALS don't have homosexual relations so why should we?"

Similarly, historical blocks to human rights have said:
"If we let women into Universities, what next? We can't just let ANYONE in! We can't have universities of JUST women! Science says women's brains are too small to truly learn much at universities! The bible says their place is having babies, taking care of children in the home and supporting their husbands!";
or
"If we let black people sit with white people, what next? Who knows what kind of corruption that will cause! Our children can't grow up in that kind of world, it's too dangerous! Next they'll take over the world: we can't let white people become the minority! Science says that black people aren't biologically fit to have power in society!"

Sounds stupid right? They were "true" once upon a time and used by people trying to stand in the way of equal rights. I'm sure you can see the similarities: your arguments sound just as closed-minded and ignorant to me. Why are you allowed to say that about one group when they seem outrageous and evil about the ones that are now accepted?

Equal rights can never go too far.


back to top  |   link to this post
Member Profile missjennifer PROFILE TIG Messenger TIG MESSENGER
Otis

Joined: Aug 13, 2009
Posts: 22 (view all)
Poster Rank: Talkative
User is Offline

Gender & Age: Male, 27
Country: Jamaica
Province/State: Saint Catherine
City: Spanish Town
Re: THESAME SEX MARRIAGE RIGHT OR WRONG?
Aug 16, 2009

Didnt say your orientation would matter in the argument, was jus curious. You keep going around the matter of siblings who will start fighting for freedom to love.... Love is the argument that we started with for gays to get married, if two people love each other whether man nor woman they should have the right to get married, by that same train of thought, sibling marriage should be legalized, what will you do when that time comes? will you fight for their equality as well? will you fight for the equality of a man to marry his prize goat? how far are you willing to go to make this a world where all are considered equal and no one an outcast? in a world where such a vague stand to equal rights exists, where whatever a man concocts can become reality without a second thought will be a world void of rules.... rules create inequality...the end of the line for this train of thought is a world with out rules, and in a world without rules chaos will reign (***sighs***, this really must have been the argument slave drivers must have used) sad...... geez..., none the less the finish line to this mindset is clear
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------
!xotîz


back to top  |   link to this post
Member Profile Oats162 PROFILE TIG Messenger TIG MESSENGER
Jennifer Moule

Joined: Jul 16, 2009
Posts: 15 (view all)
Poster Rank:
User is Offline

Gender & Age: Female, 30
Country: Canada
Re: THESAME SEX MARRIAGE RIGHT OR WRONG?
Aug 16, 2009

I think you pretty much resounded my point. Your argument about siblings and animals sounds completely ridiculous to me. You're grasping at straws because you're afraid.

And yes, you pretty much sound like a slave-driver. You must be proud.


back to top  |   link to this post
Member Profile missjennifer PROFILE TIG Messenger TIG MESSENGER
Jennifer Moule

Joined: Jul 16, 2009
Posts: 15 (view all)
Poster Rank:
User is Offline

Gender & Age: Female, 30
Country: Canada
Re: THESAME SEX MARRIAGE RIGHT OR WRONG?
Aug 16, 2009

So you're saying you have the stifle the rights of some so that our own power stand is protected. I wouldn't say that's thinking globally, that's thinking like a privileged person who is afraid to lose some of that privilege.

This post was edited on: 2009-08-16 at 09:02 PM by: missjennifer


back to top  |   link to this post
Member Profile missjennifer PROFILE TIG Messenger TIG MESSENGER
Otis

Joined: Aug 13, 2009
Posts: 22 (view all)
Poster Rank: Talkative
User is Offline

Gender & Age: Male, 27
Country: Jamaica
Province/State: Saint Catherine
City: Spanish Town
Re: THESAME SEX MARRIAGE RIGHT OR WRONG?
Aug 16, 2009

not my power stand, the cause for this is not my own... to maintain stability there must be rules which will bring inequality, we cant get around that, no matter how many ways we put it, ULTIMATELY, the world needs rules which generate inequality, you stand against inequality which means ultimately, you stand against the rules of society. my base argument still stands in the air, what next? nothing to be afraid of, but to break the ban on gay marriage means many more things must be allowed and will be fought for, this will never end until all rules are leveled out, when this happens there will be no rules, there is no going around that fact. that is ultimately the end if we continue like this. From a religious, moral, social, all stand point, the same conclusion will occur. Look ahead to what will come in the future
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------
!xotîz


back to top  |   link to this post
Member Profile Oats162 PROFILE TIG Messenger TIG MESSENGER
Display posts from:

« BACK TO FORUM

Forum Jump:


Thread Pages «  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12  »

All times are GMT-05:00

» Check that you are logged in!

You cannot create new threads in this forum
You cannot post replies in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot edit/delete your posts in this forum
Administrators: angiex, anuriandima84, BeeWall, Fatimamirza09, Liamjod, Quincy-348, shamricardo, smensah
Moderators: danieln25, darhcik, janepe, Liamjod