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Shweta
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Re: Universal Declaration of Human Rights
April 3, 2009 - 07:10 AM
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I would like to warn that some comments/statements in the posts amount to administrative offences. While sharing your perspectives, please refrain from making statements which generalize and blame others on basis of religion, region, gender, or disability.
We have to make an effort to make the discussions constructive.
Thank you for understanding,
Shweta
Community Engagement Moderator
TIG
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Saladin
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Re: Universal Declaration of Human Rights
April 10, 2009 - 02:57 PM
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-Moreover, I can prove to you, by numbers, that during the past 3 decades, most victims of violence/terrorism were not linked to Islam, unlike what you perceive.
-That should be interesting.
Indeed, here you go: some examples of terrorists/war criminals worldwide and their victims (All numbers from Wikipedia):
France Wars of Religion (1562-1598): 2,000,000 to 4,000,000 dead.
Holy Roman Empire's Thirty Years War (1618-1648): 3,000,000 to 11,500,000 dead.
Genocide of 8,000,000 to 140,000,000 native Americans since 1492.
Genocide of Australian Aboriginies: 225,000 to 650,000 dead (1788-1888).
Victims of West African slavery and Western Imperialism in the Middle East, Africa, Southeast Asia, and Australia.
Napoleonic Wars (1804-1815): 3,500,000 to 16,000,000 dead.
Great Famine, India, caused directly by British policy: between 6,000,000 and 10,000,000 dead (1876-1878), added to 4,700,000 dead from smallpox (1868-1907), and 4,000,000 dead in the Bengal famine of 1943.
American Civil War: Between 4,000,000 and 5,000,000 military and civilians dead.
World War I: 19,000,000 to 59,000,000 dead.
Stalin's Holodomor famine and political repression campaign in Ukraine (1932-1933): 2,500,000 to 5,000,000 dead.
World War II : 40 to 72 million dead, including 6,000,000 Jews, and the victims of 2 atom bombs, and the US-led forced displacement of 120,000 Japanese-Americans into "War Relocation Camps".
American-Philippine War (1899-1913): 250,000 to 1,200,000 dead.
Russian Civil War (1917-1921): 5,000,000 to 9,000,000 killed.
KKK: 4 million members across the US in 1928!!
Spanish Civil War (1936-1939): 500,000 dead.
1948 War: Between 750,000 and 1,000,000 Arabs displaced from Palestine.
Chinese Civil Wars (1928-1936 and 1946-1949): Between 3,000,000 and 5,000,000 dead.
Chinese invasion of Tibet (1950-1951): 1,200,000 dead.
Korean War (1950-1953): 4,000,000 dead.
Vietnam War: 5,300,000 Vietnamese, Cambodian, and Laotian civilians dead.
Algerian War of Independence (1950s and 1960s): 1,000,000 Algerians killed during the Mission Civilatrice of the French army .
The Revolutionary United Front – Sierra Leone: 75,000 killed (1991-2002), and 20,000 others amputated, and the forced migration of about 107,000.
The US-funded UNITA movement - Angola during the Angolan Civil War (1975 – 2002): 500,000 dead + hundreds of thousands of refugees.
The Khmer Rouge Movement – Cambodia: 1,700,000 to 3,000,000 dead .
IRA: 2,000 dead + 15,000 injured (1969-2001).
Soviet invasion of Afghanistan(1979-1989).: 1,000,000 Afghan civilians dead
Salvadoran Civil War (1980-1991): 75,000 dead.
US-funded Guatemalan Civil War (1960-1996): 200,000 dead.
US-backed Contra War, Nicaragua (1980s): 50,000 dead.
Sri Lankan Civil War: 85,000 killed (1983 -2009).
Second Congo War (1998-2003): 3,800,000 to 5,400,000 dead.
This post was edited on: 2009-04-12 at 07:25 AM by: aymanelhakea
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Saladin
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Re: Universal Declaration of Human Rights
April 10, 2009 - 03:03 PM
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Armenia/Azerbaijan conflict in Nagorno Karabakh (1988-1994): 150,00 - 200,000 dead and wounded.
Bosnian Serb Army: 200,000 dead and 1,800,000 displaced(1991-1996).
The FAR and the Army of Liberation of Rwanda: 800,000 – 1,000,000 dead (1994-1995).
First Chechen War (1994-1996): Between 30,000 and 100,000 Muslim civilians killed .
Second Chechen War (1999-till date): 50,000 Muslim civilians killed and another 5,000 "disappeared".
Genocide of Kosovar Albanians by the Yugoslav Federation: 1,000,000 dead/displaced (late 1990s).
US-led embargo against Iraq (1991-2003): 1,000,000 - 3,000,000 dead including 1,200,000 children.
US-led invasion of Afghanistan (2002-present): 50,000 dead.
Nevertheless, wars have been carried out even in the name of democracy, most recently the Operation Iraqi Freedom, which resulted in the death of about 120,000, and the displacement of 4,500,000 million Iraqis since 2003.
Needless to speak about the pain communist regimes have caused to humanity in Siberian concentration camps and other places. Needless to speak as well about secret police personnel in fascist regimes depending on CIA Torturing Manuals in security investigation rooms in Pinochet's Chile and Pahlavi's Iran for example.
You neglected these unchangeable facts. These facts prove, at least to me, that man is able of legitimizing violence, irrespective of his religious, political, cultural, or ideological identification. The attempt to solely adhere violence with Islam and to portray this picture as a unique phenomenon is nonsense, in light of the historically-established unchangeable facts that took place on this planet.
Note that while Nazis killed 6,000,000 Jews in the 20th century, Islam protected the Spanish Jewish Sephardim twice from the Spanish Inquisitions, by granting them freedom of belief in Andalusia as opposed to the inquisitions, and by accepting their refugees in the Ottoman Empire after Spain had been re-conquered by the anti-Jewish Crusaders. This was in the medieval era, a way before the Nazi genocide of European Jewry in the 20th century.
If you take these figures, which do not include the Crusades, the Inquisition, the West-African Slavery, the victims of Imperialist Wars worldwide, and the victims of political repression in China, the USSR and the US-backed regimes worldwide, you end up with a death toll between 250,000,000 and 350,000,000 people, where more than 80% of them killed within the 20th and 21st century - and not by Islam.
In light of these figures, it is fair enough to consider anyone assigning the world's misery uniquely to Islam as someone who believes in the "Protocols of the Elders of Mecca".
This post was edited on: 2009-04-12 at 07:36 AM by: aymanelhakea
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Robert
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Re: Universal Declaration of Human Rights
April 10, 2009 - 04:52 PM
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According to Wikipedia, in its List of Wars in the Muslim World, since the death of Mohammed there have been 63
major Islamic wars of conquest involving over 201 major battles. It
also documents 18 current conflicts involving Muslims, which represent
over 95% of the WORLD'S armed conflicts.
Historians have estimated that Muslims have killed over 270 million people during the last 1400 years in their wars.
I wouldn't even consider half of your list to be terrorist attacks. As for the other half your reaching.
It is certainly true that not all Muslims are terrorists, however, sadly we say that the majority of terrorists in the world are Muslims.
This post was edited on: 2009-04-12 at 06:39 AM by: aymanelhakea (Moderator)
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Saladin
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Re: Universal Declaration of Human Rights
April 12, 2009 - 08:04 AM
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You suggested that most of the victims of violence/terrorism in the past 30 years were killed by Muslims. As such, I provided statistics showing that your assumption was a pure fabrication.
While I provided many figures concerning casualties dating from different chronological eras; you did not reply by complaining about my refraining to adhere to the "past 30 years"...yet you responded by claiming that historians have estimated that Muslims have killed 270,000,000 people over the past 14 centuries.
It would be really curious to know your sources for this, however, your figure for 14 centuries is well below my figure for 5 centuries at most, which lacks several major conflicts of greater magnitude.
Nevertheless, I cannot understand your insistance on the distinction between people killed in "terrorist attacks" and others killed in wars, famines, genocide, slavery, etc...as opposed to your global claims that Muslims killed 270,000,000 people in their "wars of plunder, famine, and slavery, over the past 14 centuries"...Excuse me, if you do not consider these as "terrorist attacks" you are doing nothing but contradicting yourself.
Meanwhile, due to several complaints regarding the deviation from the topic of this discussion, the specific attacks on a single religious group, and a single faith, addded to the unconstructive way of discussion, which are all in direct breach of the TIG discussion board guidelines, this thread has been closed until further notice.
Regards,
TIG Discussion Board Moderator
This post was edited on: 2009-04-12 at 08:05 AM by: aymanelhakea
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