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Belal jahjooh
连接： Apr 6, 2008
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Re: Universal Declaration of Human Rights
July 7, 2008 - 03:08 PM
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Dear all
I would like to thank you for your intersted in Human rights issues.
I am supporting this step very much.
but I am very sorry that the concept of the human rights you already you provide in web, didn't mentioned to anything about the occupation in Palestine wich's started in 1948 and continue till this moment, beside you have no any comment about the beggest person in the world called Gaza Strip, wich's include 1,50000 population they can't movie or get good food or good medicine and they no chance to live as Human, I would like recommend you to check UNITED NATION agency to know more about one of the biggest crimes in the world with even put any word.
we are as Palestinian Youth looking for peace and good life.
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Kristiana
连接： Aug 29, 2005
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Re: Universal Declaration of Human Rights
July 14, 2008 - 01:57 AM
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It is undeniable that the Universal Declaration of Human Rights is a foundation for positive change worldwide. People all around the world have been able to defend themselves to improve their situations and Governments around the globe have had to be internationally accountable for their actions. Sure we live in a time where discrimination exists prominently in every area, but discrimination has been minimised due to the creation of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. We obviously have a very long way to go to realise the vision that the United Nations committee agreed to 60 years ago, but hopefully we will never take a step backwards in our journey to progress forward.
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FaerieGirl
连接： Oct 29, 2005
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Re: Universal Declaration of Human Rights
July 14, 2008 - 12:34 PM
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mnopq wrote:
I once had a big fight with one girl who worked at Amnesty International because of a 30-min conversation about the declaration.
The argument was very simple. Most of the articles in the declaration are either redundant or unnecessary. Claim was that only few articles were really universal to which every human being regardless of everything had a right to. Everything else had to be deserved, worked for, etc.
Declaration of human rights tries to put every single human on an equal footing - humans are not born equal on a genetic level - with everyone else and give the same starting point. As much as the idea is good, I don't think that the manner of formulation and putting it into the internationallly consented context thus expecting it to be implemented by all and in all places is going to cut it.
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I think you have an interesting point.
I would like to read about the basis that was used in the creation of this declaration. After all, it proposes moral universal concepts.
As of now, I think the declaration is a good set of principles for policy-making, and I definitely would not change it. I agree with you that it will not 'cut it', and that that is the reason why it is not the only guideline to be ever created, but I think they are (by consensus) a good set of rules to follow.
What I wonder, though, is how fair the theoretical base they used is. Hm.
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Kina
连接： Mar 13, 2006
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Re: Universal Declaration of Human Rights
July 14, 2008 - 08:21 PM
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Great thread kirstenjordan and this is what the Declaration of Human Rights means to me but not limited to this~
~The fundamental rights of humanity mean, first: the right of habitation; second, the right to move freely; third, the right to the soil and subsoil, and to the use of it; fourth, the right of freedom of labor and of exchange; fifth, the right to justice; sixth, the right to live within a natural national organization; and seventh, the right to education. Because i want my forefathers and my children and their children...generation after generation to equally have these simple human rights. For these reasons and more are what make me the human being that I am and want to be and ultimately determine my life, my children's life, my parents and friends and those around that are human like me~
In other words if you leave by emulating all these rights and believing that as much as you deserve them another person deserves them as well then we can all acquire these rights on an equal basis~
Kina
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Kina
连接： Mar 13, 2006
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Re: Universal Declaration of Human Rights
July 14, 2008 - 08:28 PM
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mnopq wrote:
Declaration of human rights tries to put every single human on an equal footing - humans are not born equal on a genetic level - with everyone else and give the same starting point. As much as the idea is good, I don't think that the manner of formulation and putting it into the internationallly consented context thus expecting it to be implemented by all and in all places is going to cut it.
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Yes it sounds good and no we may not be born on the same genetics scales or economic status but as human beings we can treat each other with that equal respect and mutual recognition that we could be in a similar status and given time our life situations can change abruptly~ The mere concept that today am rich and tomorrow very poor happens to all of us and this may vary in situations like being sick today and someone else getting sick tomorrow etc. Hence, it's our responsibility to acknowledge such a change and know that the scale could tip at any moment and that person we looked down upon because of their race, socio-economic status, genetic disposition ex cetera could be us and we could be them. I think it's the fact that people forget this and never see themselves in similar situations so they tend to treat their fellow human beings differently. Okay here's a simple example, let's say you just happen to be told that you have two days to live and you'll be dead in 48 hours, what do you think people do and how then do they view someone they initially treated unfairly because they felt he/she was less of a human being? Just try this experiment at home and ask people what they would do before the 48 hours are up? And you will realize the remorse people feel towards those they treated unfairly when they know something bad is about to happen to them... How they suddenly start viewing them as equals to themselves~
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Kina
连接： Mar 13, 2006
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Re: Universal Declaration of Human Rights
July 14, 2008 - 08:30 PM
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FaerieGirl wrote:
mnopq wrote:
I once had a big fight with one girl who worked at Amnesty International because of a 30-min conversation about the declaration.
The argument was very simple. Most of the articles in the declaration are either redundant or unnecessary. Claim was that only few articles were really universal to which every human being regardless of everything had a right to. Everything else had to be deserved, worked for, etc.
Declaration of human rights tries to put every single human on an equal footing - humans are not born equal on a genetic level - with everyone else and give the same starting point. As much as the idea is good, I don't think that the manner of formulation and putting it into the internationallly consented context thus expecting it to be implemented by all and in all places is going to cut it.
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I think you have an interesting point.
I would like to read about the basis that was used in the creation of this declaration. After all, it proposes moral universal concepts.
As of now, I think the declaration is a good set of principles for policy-making, and I definitely would not change it. I agree with you that it will not 'cut it', and that that is the reason why it is not the only guideline to be ever created, but I think they are (by consensus) a good set of rules to follow.
What I wonder, though, is how fair the theoretical base they used is. Hm.
~FaerieGirl, I completely agree that the declaration of human rights is a good set of principles for policy-making and was set as a guideline to how we should treat one another as human beings and even though it may not cut it like mnopg states, we still can use it to protect our human rights globally!
Great thread and stay safe all till later~
Kina~
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expat
连接： Jan 27, 2008
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Re: Universal Declaration of Human Rights
July 15, 2008 - 04:19 AM
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The only problem is that not even the UN and OHCHR and the former High COmmissioner Louise Arbour, complie with the declaration
Evidence
http://kangaroocourtaustralia.com/
http://kangaroocourtaus.ath.cx/kangaroo_court_australia/index.php?showtopic=651
http://kangaroocourtaus.ath.cx/kangaroo_court_australia/index.php?showtopic=107
This post was edited on: 2008-07-15 at 05:12 AM by: Expat1970
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expat
连接： Jan 27, 2008
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Re: Universal Declaration of Human Rights
July 15, 2008 - 05:07 AM
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mnopq wrote:
I once had a big fight with one girl who worked at Amnesty International because of a 30-min conversation about the declaration.
The argument was very simple. Most of the articles in the declaration are either redundant or unnecessary. Claim was that only few articles were really universal to which every human being regardless of everything had a right to. Everything else had to be deserved, worked for, etc.
Declaration of human rights tries to put every single human on an equal footing - humans are not born equal on a genetic level - with everyone else and give the same starting point. As much as the idea is good, I don't think that the manner of formulation and putting it into the internationallly consented context thus expecting it to be implemented by all and in all places is going to cut it.
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this statement does not make much sense to me.
The human baby is ONE of the weakest newborn in the animal kingdom. By your definition, human should not even enjoy any rights.
But with the care and the nurture of the parents the human baby fulfills its potential to be greater than the other animals
Declaration of human rights tries to put every single human on an equal footing AT THE BARE minimum. NOONEA says everyone should get a ferrari and ipods
This post was edited on: 2008-07-15 at 05:15 AM by: Expat1970
This post was edited on: 2008-07-16 at 04:21 AM by: mnopq (Moderator)
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Ritchie
连接： Nov 1, 2007
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Re: Universal Declaration of Human Rights
July 15, 2008 - 09:06 AM
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It is certain that men now walk around with cuffs on their hands but something need to be done about the minds of men today. The mind is the man himself and any limitation placed on his mind naturally reduces and confine the man to a limitation. There is no real freedom in view.
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FaerieGirl
连接： Oct 29, 2005
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Re: Universal Declaration of Human Rights
July 15, 2008 - 10:49 PM
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Expat1970 wrote:
mnopq wrote:
I once had a big fight with one girl who worked at Amnesty International because of a 30-min conversation about the declaration.
The argument was very simple. Most of the articles in the declaration are either redundant or unnecessary. Claim was that only few articles were really universal to which every human being regardless of everything had a right to. Everything else had to be deserved, worked for, etc.
Declaration of human rights tries to put every single human on an equal footing - humans are not born equal on a genetic level - with everyone else and give the same starting point. As much as the idea is good, I don't think that the manner of formulation and putting it into the internationallly consented context thus expecting it to be implemented by all and in all places is going to cut it.
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this statement does not make much sense to me.
The human baby is ONE of the weakest newborn in the animal kingdom. By your definition, human should not even enjoy any rights.
But with the care and the nurture of the parents the human baby fulfills its potential to be greater than the other animals
Declaration of human rights tries to put every single human on an equal footing AT THE BARE minimum. NOONEA says everyone should get a ferrari and ipods
This post was edited on: 2008-07-15 at 05:15 AM by: Expat1970
Stick your head under the sand all the time you feel like it, but that will not change the fact that there is value in having different opinions in a discussion.
Human rights have been supported (or attacked) out of inertia, and none of the stands is better than the other one. If you are going to support or attack human rights, do it because of a conscious and informed decision you are making.
You will not be so informed if you don't know the other side of the argument, will you?
This post was edited on: 2008-07-16 at 04:23 AM by: mnopq (Moderator)
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expat
连接： Jan 27, 2008
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Re: Universal Declaration of Human Rights
July 16, 2008 - 03:20 AM
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Stick your head under the sand all the time you feel like it, but that will not change the fact that there is value in having different opinions in a discussion.
Human rights have been supported (or attacked) out of inertia, and none of the stands is better than the other one. If you are going to support or attack human rights, do it because of a conscious and informed decision you are making.
You will not be so informed if you don't know the other side of the argument, will you?
His side of the argument is that Universal Human rights are redundant and irrelevant.
By his definition, SO if he s so inferior then why should i bother to listen to his side of the story?
I am doing a bit of satire here, if you have recognised it yet.
For a person of Armenian heritage whose people have been crying genocide for decades, i was a bit amazed to hear him say that.
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mnopq
连接： Dec 20, 2005
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Re: Universal Declaration of Human Rights
July 16, 2008 - 05:00 AM
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Expat,
I rephrased what would be fairly called as an indirect attack - your statement.
Have uread the UDHR?
Your misunderstanding resulted in you not being able to understand the essence of my message. I did not debunk the entire delcaration but claimed merely that there is lot of rights one need not necessarily be granted without deserving it.
Lets take some articles and analyse the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Article 5.
No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.
Do people like Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the Guantánamo detainee who he beheaded the reporter Daniel Pearl or others like Osama Bin Laden deserve the same way of treatement and a similar punishment with some minor robber, considering that the former might commit (and surely will) more atrocities if judges show themselves indulgent or lenient?
Article 13.
(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.
(2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.
First part is already quite dubious to me. According to this Afgan Taliban must have the right to move around everywhere in Afghanistan - apparently doing what they want to, because the article does not specify or put limist to their actions. Do you agree with this?
Second part, even more dubious. Border controls, forced deportationsrestrains or immigration are all what we consider part of law. There is a "little" contradiction between this article and our life or even more importantly what we must aspire to.
Article 24.
Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay.
What do you think of this? This is a perfect article for lazy and those not willing to work or do anything to cling to. This also equates those who work hard and those who dash off to equal treatement. Is this what we want to achieve as a better world?
I could continue, but I think you got my point. Next time be more considerate before launching into such a debate.
P.S.You completely misintepreted the point of Armenian genocide...
This post was edited on: 2008-07-16 at 05:43 AM by: mnopq
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expat
连接： Jan 27, 2008
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Re: Universal Declaration of Human Rights
July 16, 2008 - 05:50 AM
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LOL, i have NOT got time at the moment, and whilst there are only 14 articles in the UDHR, i admit not knowing all by heart.
Is freedom of speech one of them?? Is there a rule on takingitglobal against editing people's posts just coz you cant stand the heat?? Looks like a blatant abuse of moderator powers to me
Thats like holocaust deniers rewriting history coz it causes them embrarassment
You claim ( human) Rights for yourself, that you consider redundant and irrelevant. I believe thats called HYPOCRISY
I wouldnt even alllow u to moderate my forums much less to decide if sheik mohamaed should live or die
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expat
连接： Jan 27, 2008
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Re: Universal Declaration of Human Rights
July 16, 2008 - 06:07 AM
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I could continue, but I think you got my point. Next time be more considerate before launching into such a debate.
Amazing: you claim the power to decide who's inferior and who should live or die.
I dont claim that power, and yet i think your thinking powers are FAR inferior to mine.SO can i deny you all the HUMAN RIGHTS you think are redundant and irrelevant?? eg. You are NOT taliban, but becuase i dont like how u look, how u smell, and so i fake evidence that you are Taliban and i throw you in jail, get crooked judges to (like the Guatanamo Military judges) throw you in jail, and don't allow you to move around in your own country. Just because I (some unknown person over the internet) alleges that you are Taliban.
Article 24 is the classic case where it should be extended EVEN more to protect children and prevent child labour AND SLAVERY
Yet child labour and prostitution and child soldiers are rampant !!
Why? because the the UDHR are not being adhered to and a total lack of success by the UN and OHCHR.
Your argument is falling apart, keep replying if you think you have any argument left.
This post was edited on: 2008-07-16 at 06:21 AM by: Expat1970
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Kina
连接： Mar 13, 2006
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Re: Universal Declaration of Human Rights
July 16, 2008 - 10:50 AM
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mnopq wrote:
Expat,
I rephrased what would be fairly called as an indirect attack - your statement.
Have uread the UDHR?
Your misunderstanding resulted in you not being able to understand the essence of my message. I did not debunk the entire delcaration but claimed merely that First part is already quite dubious to me. According to this Afgan Taliban must have the right to move around everywhere in Afghanistan....
Actually mnopg, human rights however way you may have read them on UDHR doc, the fact is they're simple basic rights like food , water and air and they certainly don't need to be earned because if you entitled to them so is everyone else and thus the reason they were drafted in the first place and according to the ones you have quoted above, believe it when i say however bad this may sound, by law even criminals have these rights so let's not confuse punishments on the criminals and human rights because we'll get way in over our heads.
In order for humanity to equally acknowledge one's human rights they don't need to rely on the basis of one's career skills, CV/Resume nor is it like a lottery ticket that you have to play to win, NO they're rights that we're born with but people take them away because of power, money and any leverage they have on us. So i don't dispute that people have disagreed on UDHR, i disagree with you that you feel that people should earn such rights because it's like asking me to earn air to breathe....Everyone is born with these rights so it's up to us as humans to practice them and until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt as charged, we can't just take it upon ourselves to claim that so and so doesn't need to be treated like a human being because of ex cetera and if hypothetically am fighting you my neighbor in our own land, you've got to still understand that am rightfully in our land so an outsider may not necessarily have a right to judge me but if i commit a heinous crime then even the law of the land will convict me let alone another power from outside ~
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