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Whateverman

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Re: PROBLEMS GOD CAN’T SOLVE!
June 4, 2008 - 09:47 AM

Fair enough - but you know as well as anyone that the question of his existence can neither be proven nor disproven. Since the original post in this thread presupposes his existence, I'm trying to keep the discussion in that context.

Basically, the definition of God is what we're talking about. Is he omnipotent? Omnipresent or omniscient? Someone who is intentionally absent from the affairs of man? If you assume God exists (for the purposes of this thread), answering the question "Are there any problems god can't solve?" addresses each person's definition of said being.

Personally, I think the question is ridiculous - I know almost nothing of God's nature, other than the ideas being propagated by humans. The Bible isn't an authoritative source, and neither is the Kuran. The best I can possibly guess is that he's a humanist - someone who cares about the health of human beings on this planet.

... and that says nothing about whether he *can* solve problems.

I choose to believe there are many problems he WONT solve (for us).

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Reality

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Re: PROBLEMS GOD CAN’T SOLVE!
June 4, 2008 - 06:32 PM

In initiating this thread I had something specific in mind. Once more, I wish to re state that the question here is not about the existence of God but about problems he can’t solve. If you like substitute can’t with won’t although that may change the premise but it seems more palatable to those that have decided to look at it from the religious point of view.

If there is a God and he is a God in the real sense of the term ‘God’, there is no gain saying that fact he can fix all problems. But that is not the issue here. The issue is about those problems he can’t solve and would never solve despite have the powers to solve them.

When you look around you, you would see a myriad of problems the almighty can’t solve. He won’t solve them simply because it is our duty to solve. Man is not a n automaton. Man has free will and above all is a sentient been endowed with several abilities.

When due to mediocrity he accepts crumbs form the table of his likes, he consciously creates a problem only he can solve. The almighty cannot solve the problem of such a man, men or nation!

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Whateverman

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Re: PROBLEMS GOD CAN’T SOLVE!
June 4, 2008 - 06:39 PM

If there is a God and he is a God in the real sense of the term ‘God’, there is no gain saying that fact he can fix all problems.This is true *only* if you presuppose a judeo-christian deity.

But that is not the issue here. The issue is about those problems he can’t solve and would never solve despite have the powers to solve them.

When you look around you, you would see a myriad of problems the almighty can’t solve. He won’t solve them simply because it is our duty to solve. Man is not a n automaton. Man has free will and above all is a sentient been endowed with several abilities.
This appears to me to be a radically different question from your initial post. be that as it may, I'll opine as follows:

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Whateverman

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Re: PROBLEMS GOD CAN’T SOLVE!
June 4, 2008 - 06:44 PM

God *wont* solve problems created by human society. To be specific: any time single humans choose to organize, and problems result from it (ie. conflict with other groups, organizational stuff, interpersonal stuff, legal / ethical / scientific / educational / etc stuff), he will not intervene.

He will not solve problems when solutions involve breaking the rules of physics. He wont stop a person who falls from a rock ledge from hitting the ground. He wont prevent a tsunami from hitting. He wont prevent the evolution of viruses deadly to human beings.

I am unsure as to whether he provides "internal guidance" to individuals. He may speak to people, or provide answers in terms of thoughts or ideas. I suspect that he might - but not to the point of creating brainwave patterns that can be detected by modern science.

I could explain more, but that's a good start. Again, I mean no disrespect to the beliefs of other people - these are merely mine.

edit: second edit fixed a spelling error

This post was edited on: 2008-06-04 at 06:49 PM by: whateverman

This post was edited on: 2008-06-04 at 06:50 PM by: whateverman

This post was edited on: 2008-06-05 at 09:21 AM by: whateverman

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Hina

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Re: PROBLEMS GOD CAN’T SOLVE!
June 11, 2008 - 06:54 AM

I don't think there are any problems that God cannot solve. As I've grown up, I've come to realize that when you really pray sincerely for something and work for it as well, you do get it. There have also been times when I felt absolutely helpless about things and had no clue what to do to solve my problem, and then it was solved in a few days..

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KelvinK

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Re: PROBLEMS GOD CAN’T SOLVE!
June 12, 2008 - 08:52 AM

luke wrote:

If God is all good, all knowing and all powerful then why do bad things happen to good people?

I do believe for a fact that God exists without a shadow of a doubt. Why would bad things not happen to good people? Life is not a bed of roses after all. Good people should not suffer? Good people should have a happy life and live happily ever after? People need to go through things to experience the good things being God's plan. God can definitely solve every single problem in the world as many of you quoted from the Bible. It's just a matter of time for Him to solve your problem if you continue to love Him and live by His ways. Everything is a test of life and He will do his thing in due time. Don't you think that if once you have a problem and God immediately solves it for you, you would take Him for granted?

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prieten47

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Re: PROBLEMS GOD CAN’T SOLVE!
June 13, 2008 - 09:17 AM

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KelvinK

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Re: PROBLEMS GOD CAN’T SOLVE!
June 13, 2008 - 11:39 AM

------------------------------------------------------------
Oh well. Please do read the Bible. It is when men sin and the sickness and plagues came into the world. Also, sicknesses isn't God's creation, it's the Devil's. It comes to even show that God has all the power to heal and cure that sicknesses. I don't think God will be able to heal the sickness if He had created the sickness because He is so powerful, everything created by Him is unmatchable. Having said so, even if He were to create these sicknesses, it would also be a way to show people His power and might to heal such sicknesses since humans are so ignorant and they need to see something to actually believe in Him.

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Whateverman

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Re: PROBLEMS GOD CAN’T SOLVE!
June 13, 2008 - 12:06 PM

Okay, if we have to assume that God exists to participate in this thread, answer this.

Why would God create the malaria virus? What is the purpose of inflicting this disease on people? Is it people's "freewill" that they get malaria?

What kind of God creates a disease like that and then just sits back and watches? "He" is a sick sadist and we shouldn't believe in him just to get even! (Trust me, he won't do anything to you then either).
I've always felt you approached these "God Questions" with too much of a judeo-christian bias (in terms of ideas about what God might be like, what motivates him, what motivates *us*, etc). I say that because I've seen your above question often posed in response to fluffy ideas of an all-loving, all powerful deity.

As this is not the kind of being I believe might exist, I can answer you by dismissing the foundation you've based your question on: God rarely (if at all)interferes with the natural / physical laws that govern the universe (as far as I can tell). If humanity genetically designs a virus capable of destroying us, and then posts Barney Fife at the door to keep it from escaping - we die. All of us. God's not going to get in the way.

I see no evidence of "him" solving problems that we make for ourselves. I don't see him interfering to protect us from natural disasters. He's not going to do anything so obvious as to remove all doubt about his existence. He is the absent creator (at best).

In other words, who knows why malaria exists? If god "created it", god also created fluffy bunnies and Hitler and you and I - there's little reason to believe one of these things deserves protection more than any other.

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prieten47

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Re: PROBLEMS GOD CAN’T SOLVE!
June 15, 2008 - 11:02 PM

whateverman wrote:

I've always felt you approached these "God Questions" with too much of a judeo-christian bias (in terms of ideas about what God might be like, what motivates him, what motivates *us*, etc). I say that because I've seen your above question often posed in response to fluffy ideas of an all-loving, all powerful deity.

As this is not the kind of being I believe might exist, I can answer you by dismissing the foundation you've based your question on: God rarely (if at all)interferes with the natural / physical laws that govern the universe (as far as I can tell). If humanity genetically designs a virus capable of destroying us, and then posts Barney Fife at the door to keep it from escaping - we die. All of us. God's not going to get in the way.

I see no evidence of "him" solving problems that we make for ourselves. I don't see him interfering to protect us from natural disasters. He's not going to do anything so obvious as to remove all doubt about his existence. He is the absent creator (at best).

In other words, who knows why malaria exists? If god "created it", god also created fluffy bunnies and Hitler and you and I - there's little reason to believe one of these things deserves protection more than any other.

Go right ahead and dismiss my "foundation." I am only using the Abrahamic God because he seems to be the one everyone in this thread believes in.

Whateverman, why do you have this need to believe in a "being that might exist"?

Let's "flesh" out your Being: he "rarely (if at all) interferes with the natural/ physical laws that govern the universe," he doesn't get in the way of anything, he doesn't solve any problems, he's not going to protect us, he's not going to give us any sign of his existence, he is absent.

Why do you have this need to believe in such a Being? There is more evidence for the existence of the tooth fairy and Santa Claus than your Being! Just who here is still in the grip of Judeo-Christian bias?

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Whateverman

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Re: PROBLEMS GOD CAN’T SOLVE!
June 15, 2008 - 11:42 PM

Whateverman, why do you have this need to believe in a "being that might exist"?
You don't know me well enough to understand whether I need to believe in anything or not. Don't pretend otherwise, just to be controversial.

Let's "flesh" out your Being: he "rarely (if at all) interferes with the natural/ physical laws that govern the universe,"
As far as I understand him, yes.

he doesn't get in the way of anything, he doesn't solve any problems, he's not going to protect us, I said none of these things. I've merely said that he doesn't appear to do this. I've certainly found no credible evidence that he does - but lack of evidence is not evidence of lack. I'm enough of a rationalist to keep open the notion that I'm wrong about this.

In other words, none of these beliefs of mine are absolute.

he's not going to give us any sign of his existencePlenty of people will object, claiming that Jesus & Mohammed and Zoraster (and others?) are evidence. Do I agree? I'm not sure.

I *will* say that there's no God of the Old Testament. He's not going to make an appearance in a Marylin Manson concert and begin smiting kids getting baked in the audience.

, he is absent.As far as I can tell, yup.

Why do you have this need to believe in such a Being?I don't. Stop telling me otherwise.

There is more evidence for the existence of the tooth fairy and Santa Claus than your Being! Just who here is still in the grip of Judeo-Christian bias?How did anything in your post suggest my ideas are rooted in judeo christian traditions? I'm sorry, but for a person who obviously wants to be seen to value logic and reason, you're arguing irrationally.

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prieten47

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Re: PROBLEMS GOD CAN’T SOLVE!
June 16, 2008 - 02:18 AM

whateverman wrote:

Whateverman, why do you have this need to believe in a "being that might exist"?
You don't know me well enough to understand whether I need to believe in anything or not. Don't pretend otherwise, just to be controversial.

These are your words, Whateverman: "As this is not the kind of being I believe might exist..." So clearly you are saying there is a kind of being you believe might exist.

All the other attributes I listed of your "Being I believe might exist" were straight from your mouth, to make things short, your "Being" is a complete non-entity who can't/won't do anything.

I repeat, why do you waste your time with such a belief? Why do you need to waste your time with such a belief?

Do you need to believe in belief? Is that it? Certainly a Judeo-Christian upbringing might incline someone to think they need a belief in some kind of supernatural being.

Let's let other TigMembers decide who is arguing rationally here.

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Whateverman

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Re: PROBLEMS GOD CAN’T SOLVE!
June 16, 2008 - 08:41 AM

These are your words, Whateverman: "As this is not the kind of being I believe might exist..." So clearly you are saying there is a kind of being you believe might exist.

All the other attributes I listed of your "Being I believe might exist" were straight from your mouth, to make things short, your "Being" is a complete non-entity who can't/won't do anything.
You've got it right up to this point

I repeat, why do you waste your time with such a belief?My time is my own to waste. Don't concern yourself with it

Why do you need to waste your time with such a belief? There you go again: pretending you know me well enough to identify my needs.

You don't. You're too young and too much of a stranger to have any concept of what motivates my beliefs. Interestingly, it also has nothing to do with this thread's topic.

Do you need to believe in belief? Is that it? Certainly a Judeo-Christian upbringing might incline someone to think they need a belief in some kind of supernatural being.So I was raised with Judeo Christian influences now? Unless you can point to a single thing I've said that might suggest that, I'll repeat: you don't know me.

Stop inventiing things to justify your beliefs.

Let's let other TigMembers decide who is arguing rationally here.
I most certainly will not.

YOU have the bias, not me. And instead of answering my original comment, you try to turn it around and point the criticism at me (despite there being zero evidence that I am similarly biased).

Why do you only argue from the standpoint of God being omnipotent, omnipresent and loving? Why do you assume to know what motivates my beliefs? Why are your arguments based upon these untested assumptions?

I would prefer to keep the discussion on topic, but you seem not to want this

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Anu maheshwari

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Re: PROBLEMS GOD CAN’T SOLVE!
June 16, 2008 - 12:47 PM

Hello friends,

I must insist here that we keep the personal confrontation away from the discussion thread and stick to the topic of the thread.
We all have a personal set of beliefs on how things work and it is quite natural to be defensive about it but please try to be respectful of each others beliefs here on the board.
This sort of confrontation does nothing but create frustration and ill-feeling.
I hope we can give it another start.

Regards,
Anu Maheshwari
Community Engagement Moderator
( Virtual Volunteer)
Taking It Global
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