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Anu maheshwari
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Syrian nuclear pics faked???
May 2, 2008 - 12:42 PM
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The CIA published three aerial photographs last week purporting to show a Syrian nuclear reactor, bombed by Israel last September. But are the pictures all that they seem? Doubts about their authenticity have been raised by Professor William Beeman, head of anthropology at the University of Minnesota, who has had a long involvement with the Middle East.
He posted on a Los Angeles Times website a note received from a "colleague with US security clearance" pointing out "irregularities". The unnamed colleague said a picture taken before the bombing looked as if it had been digitally enhanced, noting that the lower part of the building, the annexe and the windows pointing south appeared much sharper than the rest.
He also questioned why the alleged reactor had no air defences, no military checkpoints and no powerlines. Turning to two shots of the bombed building, he noted that the first showed a rectangular building and the second a square one. Were they the same building?
His note has produced lively and detailed exchanges, involving photo technicians, graphic artists and military analysts past and present, including a specialist in aerial reconnaissance. The basic divide is between those who think it is unpatriotic to question the Bush administration and those suspicious that it is a rerun of 2003, when the administration put out misleading intelligence before the Iraq invasion.
Bloggers supportive of the CIA acknowledge that the first picture was digitally enhanced but say that the CIA never claimed last week that it was untouched. As for the discrepancies between pictures two and three, they suggest that the differences between the rectangular shape and the square can be explained by having been taken at different angles.
Beeman told the Guardian he did not know one way or another whether there had been a nuclear reactor in the desert, but he had been concerned last week when the administration put out the pictures. "It was so sloppy and obviously doctored," he said.
"My friend who watches this material carefully in his capacity as an analyst said, 'This does not add up.'"
[link="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/may/01/syria.nuclear"]
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Arslan Jumaniyazov
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Re: Syrian nuclear pics faked???
May 2, 2008 - 02:18 PM
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It is not outside the moral capacity of the Bush Administration.
Arslan
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Syrian nuclear pics faked???
May 2, 2008 - 05:25 PM
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The evidence is real -
I was just in Israel last week and talked to people who work in the Knesset. The Israeli government is about as upset as they can be with the US.
Israel can never get that upset with the US - at least publically - but lets say privately they are very upset.
first because they are concerned about the Bush administration putting the handheld video footage out there - (which would expose the spy who shot it)
and second because there were talks in the works with Syria - the week before this was exposed Olmert let it be known he would give back the Golan Hights -
now the Bush administration has thrown a major wrench into the works and probably put back Israel/Syrian peacemaking for months if not a year.
Better to let sleeping dogs sleep. The is a reason the Israelis were so quiet about it after the strike - because they did not want to provoke a war.
The is a reason the Syrians were so quiet about it afterward is because... well... they had an undisclosed nuclear weapons program and didn't want the world taking a close look at what exactly was bombed.
What the Bush administration should be concerned with is Israeli/Syrian peacemaking - which would make Palestinian peacemaking easier as well.
My understanding is that the Israelis were pretty clear when they handed the evidence over - it was for the eyes of select Senators and Congressmen ONLY. I can tell you they were not happy to see it on CNN.
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Anu maheshwari
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Re: Syrian nuclear pics faked???
May 3, 2008 - 01:05 PM
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[link="http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=20080427&articleId=8823"]
Yes Luke , it is really important to stress on the peace process especially since the situation is really delicate.
Yet, the Bush Administration and the CIA must not be allowed to run scot free everytime.
First the Iraq debacle and now this !
In Iraq's case the only people being penalized are the innocent ....people living in Iraq , the soldiers posted there, their families....
And with all the rhetoric of "no option can be taken off the table"( Hillary Clinton) regarding the Middle East , it is important to bring these things to light and investigate them properly.
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Syrian nuclear pics faked???
May 3, 2008 - 04:01 PM
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Sure - all I can tell you is that the Israelis would not have taken the risk to strike the site if it was not nuclear.
and everyone I talk to in the Israeli government is point blank convinced that the North Koreans were helping them build it.
I apprciate your mistrust of the Bush administration - but we ALSO cannot allow their crying wolf in Iraq - to totally distract from the real nuclear proliferation dangers that are out there.
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Anu maheshwari
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Re: Syrian nuclear pics faked???
May 4, 2008 - 01:56 PM
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luke wrote:
Sure - all I can tell you is that the Israelis would not have taken the risk to strike the site if it was not nuclear.
I am not blaming Israel here. My concern basically is over the web of lies and deceit that CIA and the US government create.
luke wrote:
<br
I apprciate your mistrust of the Bush administration - but we ALSO cannot allow their crying wolf in Iraq - to totally distract from the real nuclear proliferation dangers that are out there.
Why shouldnt they cry wolf ?
Is safety a concern only for the US govt and their allies?
Iran and Syria have the right to be equally concerned.
Why is the US govt hell bent on creating such fake images instead of focussing on banning the resurgent Opium trade in Afghanistan which has now become the prime source of funding for Al Qaeda?
The opium trade had been effectively routed out during the Taliban Regime (i'm not at all taking their side but it's a fact! ) and now this multibillion dollar trade has been restored.
It is a fact again that a substantial share of the drug related revenues goes to the CIA, which continues to protect both the Asian and Latin American drug trade. . .
I agree that it's definitely not in anybody's best interests to have a nuclear Syria , Iran or North Korea.
Yet on what basis should they be thwarted ? On false claims mentioned above or an effective demilitarisation of the entire Middle East ?
Just as USA justifies its actions before and after 9/11with "unsafe security environment" ....Syria and Iran can also go for the same reasoning.
This post was edited on: 2008-05-04 at 01:57 PM by: anuriandima84
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davyk
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Re: Syrian nuclear pics faked???
May 5, 2008 - 08:45 AM
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I dont know much about the said pictures but one thing i know is the US and its agents can do anything to justify their horrible action.They LIE, CHEAT,MANIPULATE to have their way.
THE IRAQ DEBACLE IS AN EXAMPLE
They make use of the power of the media to shape people's opinions-CNN,BBC are examples but its amazing how some people fail to see beyond those blantant lies.
I always tell people not to believe all they say in the media.
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Syrian nuclear pics faked???
May 5, 2008 - 11:21 AM
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Anu - the simple fact is that the Syrians were working on a nuclear reactor with the North Koreans.
There is a bunch of evidence to this effect and I hope they don't put the rest of it on CNN - but simply give it descreety to relevant parties.
The nuclear proliferation is really the most concerning thing - and the most important thing.
I'm not sure what you think the goal of releasing the photos are - but the goal IS to put pressure on North Korea to disclose their nuclear dealings.
It was supposed to be a full disclosure and clearly it is not.
This is about crying wolf - the Bush administration cried wolf and now they have lost all credibility - even when they are telling the truth.
The thing about the boy who cried wolf - is that eventually there really is a wolf - and he comes along and eats the kids.
And what bothers me is not that you question the photos that Bush puts out - it is that you seem totally unconcerned with the fact that North Korea is building plutonium reactors in Syria.
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Syrian nuclear pics faked???
May 5, 2008 - 11:24 AM
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dkaiyo - please tell me - what is the point of having an election if Mugabe is just going to ignore its results.
that recount sure took a long time - and what was that shipment of Chinese arms for?
I'm sure Mugabe was planning to hand those weapons over to the winners of the election - the opposition - right? Because Mugabe is an honorable man, he will concede defeat now that he lost the election right?
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Anu maheshwari
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Re: Syrian nuclear pics faked???
May 5, 2008 - 02:05 PM
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luke wrote:
.
There is a bunch of evidence to this effect and I hope they don't put the rest of it on CNN - but simply give it descreety to relevant parties.
And yes.... the one crucial evidence they chose to convince the whole world with ----is fake !
It is really difficult to be convinced with that argument.
luke wrote:
.
And what bothers me is not that you question the photos that Bush puts out - it is that you seem totally unconcerned with the fact that North Korea is building plutonium reactors in Syria.
Dear Luke ,
I have been part of this discussion board for quite some time now and never have I supported the proliferation of Nukes.... I HATE NUCLEAR WEAPONS !!!
The only difference between your position and my position is that I don't justify the possesion of nukes by any country be it USA , India, China , Israel , South Africa, Pakistan or North Korea !
I have also agreed on the point that a nuclear North Korea, iran or syria is definitely dangerous !
yet possesion of nukes with the others also doesnt make the world any safer....
the only way these countries can be motivated to give up their plans is when they feel safe ...
And that can be done only when the nuclear states pledge to reduce their arsenal instead of further upgrading their arsenal ( e.g vertical proliferation of existing weapons which is not addressed by the NPT)
It shall serve no purpose to bring these fake photos or even real photos !
The first step has to taken by those who already have the nukes ( enough to destroy the earth 12 times over)
And most importantly Syria , Iran and North Korea are nations not a terrorist organisation like Alqaeda .... Both cannot be addressed in the same manner ! ( a lesson that must be learned from the Iraq Debacle !)
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Syrian nuclear pics faked???
May 6, 2008 - 11:49 AM
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"the one crucial evidence they chose to convince the whole world with ----is fake"
You are calling them fake - it doesn't make it so. It was inevitable, given the publicity when these came out, that someone would question them -
It is interesting that this is enough for you to assume they are faked - you are now operating under "guilty until proven innocent"
I think this whole thing should have been handled with more tact - just pass them to the countries on the Security Council - it is foolish to put them on CNN.
And while I agree that North Korea and Syria cannot be handled the same as Al Qaeda - I am not sure how exposing a North Korean/Syrian weapons program is doing that.
I just think it should have been exposed to governments not the public - right now. Pressure HAS to be brought to North Korea to disclose ALL of their past dealings in exchange for the package promised in the 6 nation talks.
clearly NK only wants to talk about the more innoculous dealings and not the real under the table stuff.
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davyk
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Re: Syrian nuclear pics faked???
May 7, 2008 - 05:39 AM
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luke you are very fun or should i say ignorant?
You are trying to mislead the people in this discussion one by diversion of issues by quoting another LIE from the Western media.We are talkng about Syria here. Since you asked me a question i will answer and please be guided accordingly.
Mugabe has lost the first round and thats no reason for him to step down our constitution is very clear THERE SHOULD BE A RUNOFF/RERUN.He might have lost the battle but no certainly the war lets talk of defeat after the second round.luke take a cue from boxing matches you might understand what im talking about.
You mentioned the issue of the weapons well you and i know that those weapons were ordered in 2007 unless you chose to play ignorant here.If it was order after march 29 would they have reached Durban port the time it did? STUDY how ships travel their speed and all you might get enlightment.That issue was blown out of proportion and one can actually think that Zimbabwe was under arms embargo or something.
And for your own information that ship also carried arms for South Africa did they also want to use the weapons on the opposition?
Now lets get back to Syria lets not rule out media exaggaration of the issues here.Remember the nonexistent weapons of mass distruction in Iraq.People like luke were fooled by the weapons of mass deception CNN,BBC etc.
I rest my case
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davyk
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Re: Syrian nuclear pics faked???
May 7, 2008 - 06:11 AM
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USA can fake anything to justify their evil deeds so it will not suprise me if those pictures were faked.
They use Weapons Of Mass Deception called the CNN, BBC the media.
Let all stand against the manufacture of nuclear bombs including the US.
Media is a powerful tool which can be used to shaped people's opinions, views and beliefs.
A lie told over and over again,repeatedly it will begin to appear as true.
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Syrian nuclear pics faked???
May 7, 2008 - 12:48 PM
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That's cool Dykia - I get a kick out of your BS too.
So where is this vast trove of resources in Afghanistan you were talking about? I noticed you avoided that topic.
The runoff would be far more credible is Mugabe hadn't held up the results for over a month.
I ask again - why was Mugabe acquiring tons of arms from China just ahead of this runoff?
And yes - a shipment of small arms and mortars can be arranged and arrive in a month - easily.
can you say - "voter intimidation"?
"Remember the nonexistent weapons of mass distruction in Iraq"
Perhaps you are not familiar with the story of the "boy who cried wolf" - if you were you would know that I am aware of how Bush screwed up in the past.
"I rest my case "
then be glad you are not a lawyer - just because Bush lacks credibility doesn't make the Syrians or North Koreans innocent.
13 North Koreans were killed in the attack on that reactor - can you explain please what they were doing there?
Can you explain why Syria did not counter-attack? Why they did not go to the Arab League? Why they made only a single half-hearted motion in the UN and then promptly dropped the issue?
Do you think Israel would risk war with Syria unless it was a vital interest?
Two weeks ago I had dinner at the house of an Israeli airforce Major - I know what was there - I also know about evidence they are not showing the press.
"USA can fake anything to justify their evil deeds "
This coming from a guy who supports Mugabe. Dkaiyo - just being a reactionary who sees the world in black and white terms - "US evil/ Anti-US good" - is not only simple minded - it is intellectually boring.
I'll tell you what - I will predict your reactions in advance to every issue - it won't be hard
all I have to do is start from the simple-minded premise that the US is monolithic and evil, controlled by corporations and the media is their bitch.
If one assumes that the US has no motivations beyond those purely materialistic and imperialist one will see everything they do as some kind of conspiracy.
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Merlyn
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Re: Syrian nuclear pics faked???
May 7, 2008 - 06:31 PM
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dkaiyo wrote:
luke you are very fun or should i say ignorant?
You are trying to mislead the people in this discussion one by diversion of issues by quoting another LIE from the Western media.We are talkng about Syria here. Since you asked me a question i will answer and please be guided accordingly.
Mugabe has lost the first round and thats no reason for him to step down our constitution is very clear THERE SHOULD BE A RUNOFF/RERUN.He might have lost the battle but no certainly the war lets talk of defeat after the second round.luke take a cue from boxing matches you might understand what im talking about.
You mentioned the issue of the weapons well you and i know that those weapons were ordered in 2007 unless you chose to play ignorant here.If it was order after march 29 would they have reached Durban port the time it did? STUDY how ships travel their speed and all you might get enlightment.That issue was blown out of proportion and one can actually think that Zimbabwe was under arms embargo or something.
And for your own information that ship also carried arms for South Africa did they also want to use the weapons on the opposition?
Now lets get back to Syria lets not rule out media exaggaration of the issues here.Remember the nonexistent weapons of mass distruction in Iraq.People like luke were fooled by the weapons of mass deception CNN,BBC etc.
I rest my case
Despite me diverging in opinions with Luke, you must not underestimate him.
Western media exaggerates. True. But exaggeration is still not a lie. It is taking truth to an extreme and sometimes out-of-reality boundaries - something easily seen through by those who know what to look for. So if you are smart you would discern a lie from a fact even in the Western media. Moreover, I don't think there is some kind of an unbiased Zimbabwe media to rely on. The only intl one is from West.
Live with it dude and learn from it accordingly.
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