 Author |
 Post
|
 |
|
davyk
Joined: Jul 4, 2007
Posts: 497 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male & 28
Country: Zimbabwe
Province/State: Harare
City: Harare
|
Nelson Mandela the terrorist........?
May 2, 2008 - 05:20 AM
|
|
People people what are we saying?Reports from the US says Mandela the winner of the Nobel Peace Award and other ANC leaders need a special weiver to enter the US as the are on the terrorist list in the US. Really putting Mandela in the same bracket as Bin Ladin etc?
Reason for him and other comrades to be called terrorist is because they were fighting apathied and for the emancipation of the South African people. So whats the definition of a terrorist?
If Mandela is and could be classified as a terrorist then who is not or was not?
Can one be a terrorist because they are fighting for the freedom of the people?
This is actually making news i "googled" up and was shocked by what i saw see for yourself
http://www.google.co.zw/search?hl=en&q=ANC+Leaders+Weiver+to+the+US&btnG=Google+Search
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2008-04-30-watchlist_N.htm"
[link="http://cafeliberica.com/2008/04/26/mandela-and-anc-on-us-terrorist-list/ "]
Can we allow our leaders to be labelled like this they should be embarrased as they are now.
For interest's sake what is your definition of a terrorist
This post was edited on: 2008-05-02 at 05:39 AM by: dkaiyo
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
R Kahendi
Joined: Jul 19, 2002
Posts: 59 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Talkative
User is
Offline
 Virtual Volunteer
Country: United States
Province/State: New York
City: New York
|
Re: Nelson Mandela the terrorist........?
May 2, 2008 - 07:51 AM
|
|
It usually depends on who's doing the defining. The people whose cause the soldier's fighting for call him a freedom fighter. The people who are affected by the violence call him a terrorist.
At some time in the past, the American government perceived Mandela and the ANC as terrorists because racial dynamics in the USA were similar to those in South Africa. It's interesting that the classification still holds.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
davyk
Joined: Jul 4, 2007
Posts: 497 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 28
Country: Zimbabwe
Province/State: Harare
City: Harare
|
Re: Nelson Mandela the terrorist........?
May 2, 2008 - 09:19 AM
|
|
the question then is should we allow people to label us basing on their own definition?
Can we use their dictionaries to define ourselves or our leaders.The problems is anyone who dares to go against the West (Worst) is deemed a dictator, terrorist and other degratory names.With their media BBC,CNN,France24 they will demonise these leaders and are called those names to the extent that it will sound true and some people may begin to believe those false allegation.
By calling Mandela a terrorist in agreement with apatheid and continue to do so up to this day is mind boggling but those who know better will know that apatheid SA served well the interest of the US than it does now.
LETS UNITE AGAINST THIS NAME CALLING!!
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Arslan Jumaniyazov
Joined: May 13, 2004
Posts: 1358 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 32
Country: Turkmenistan
Province/State: Dashoguz
|
Re: Nelson Mandela the terrorist........?
May 2, 2008 - 12:28 PM
|
|
I think Condi Rice is absolutely correct to call it "embarrassing." But I think Rice should also have the courage to call it "embarrassing" that Mandela was ever on the list in general. I hope, this can open the eyes of those (including those at tig) who still try to reject that the US supported racist apartheid South Africa.
Arslan
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Mrs. Alicia Szilagyi
Joined: Apr 3, 2007
Posts: 8 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Soft-spoken
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Female, 35
Country: United States
Province/State: New York
City: Buffalo
|
Re: Nelson Mandela the terrorist........?
May 2, 2008 - 02:17 PM
|
|
Nelson Mandela is not on the terror list anymore, nor are most reps from the ANC (unless they are linked to terror groups). At one time he was though, due to the civil rights issues going on in SA. Aparthide was the law there, and any group not recognized by the UN (at that time the ANC) would be and is considered a terrorist organization. Mandela is on the dignitaries list. Regardless of what list anyone is on, anyone entering the US should have a passport and a Visa. I would have to do the same going to your country.
This post was edited on: 2008-05-02 at 02:20 PM by: aszilagyi
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
davyk
Joined: Jul 4, 2007
Posts: 497 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 28
Country: Zimbabwe
Province/State: Harare
City: Harare
|
Re: Nelson Mandela the terrorist........?
May 5, 2008 - 02:28 AM
|
|
aszilagyi why do you want to lie to us? Did you follow the links i gave you in the initial post? Efforts are actually underway to remove Mandela and company from the list of terrorist. They require more than a visa and passport to enter the US,they need a special waiver.
Besides it shoe the double standards of the US why was he on that list inn the first place? To SA people he was and still is a freedom fighter he fought for the people and against apatheid yet he was called a terrorist.The US was in agreement with apatheid SA and they placed a labelled on our freedom fighter.
Its all about HYPOCRICY of the US.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
R Kahendi
Joined: Jul 19, 2002
Posts: 59 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Talkative
User is
Offline
Virtual Volunteer
Country: United States
Province/State: New York
City: New York
|
Re: Nelson Mandela the terrorist........?
May 6, 2008 - 12:38 AM
|
|
aszilagyi wrote:
Nelson Mandela is not on the terror list anymore, nor are most reps from the ANC (unless they are linked to terror groups). At one time he was though, due to the civil rights issues going on in SA. Aparthide was the law there, and any group not recognized by the UN (at that time the ANC) would be and is considered a terrorist organization. Mandela is on the dignitaries list. Regardless of what list anyone is on, anyone entering the US should have a passport and a Visa. I would have to do the same going to your country.
This post was edited on: 2008-05-02 at 02:20 PM by: aszilagyi
Aszilagyi, I don't think anyone is taking issue with the requirement to travel with a passport and visa. This whole discussion is based on the articles that dkaiyo posted links to. Please take the time to read them.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
davyk
Joined: Jul 4, 2007
Posts: 497 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 28
Country: Zimbabwe
Province/State: Harare
City: Harare
|
Re: Nelson Mandela the terrorist........?
May 12, 2008 - 09:34 AM
|
|
[link="http://www1.sundaymail.co.zw/inside.aspx?sectid=423&cat=2"]
So they have finally decided to remove Mandela and his comrades fro the terrorist list and now my question which is yet to be answered on what basis did Mandela ended up on that list.
this proves that the US was in tandem with the apatheid policy of Botha and his kith and kin.
the link leads to an interesting article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7396040.stm
how pathetic
This post was edited on: 2008-05-13 at 06:24 AM by: dkaiyo
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Mrs. Alicia Szilagyi
Joined: Apr 3, 2007
Posts: 8 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Soft-spoken
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Female, 35
Country: United States
Province/State: New York
City: Buffalo
|
Re: Nelson Mandela the terrorist........?
May 13, 2008 - 12:54 PM
|
|
Lie to you? It's a moot point now, don't you think? I do not wish to lie to you, I just want you to know that Americans are not as evil as you think we are. Why is it that your governments stick out their hands to collect our money and relief, yet you all hate us?
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Jason Foster
Joined: Jun 22, 2007
Posts: 84 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Chatterbox
User is
Offline
Age: 42
Country: United Kingdom
Province/State: London, City of
City: London
|
Re: Nelson Mandela the terrorist........?
May 13, 2008 - 03:35 PM
|
|
Lie to you? It's a moot point now, don't you think? I do not wish to lie to you, I just want you to know that Americans are not as evil as you think we are. Why is it that your governments stick out their hands to collect our money and relief, yet you all hate us?
This goes with the territory of being the world's only superpower, much the same way England was in the 19th century.
Third world countries will always have animosity toward richer and more advanced industrial nations. It's called 'envy'.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Mrs. Alicia Szilagyi
Joined: Apr 3, 2007
Posts: 8 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Soft-spoken
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Female, 35
Country: United States
Province/State: New York
City: Buffalo
|
Re: Nelson Mandela the terrorist........?
May 13, 2008 - 06:03 PM
|
|
We appreciate England. We wouldn't be where we are without England. England made us who we are. We thank the UK for helping us in times of need as we've helped them (Lend-Lease Act).
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
davyk
Joined: Jul 4, 2007
Posts: 497 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 28
Country: Zimbabwe
Province/State: Harare
City: Harare
|
Re: Nelson Mandela the terrorist........?
May 14, 2008 - 04:11 AM
|
|
The former US assistant secretary of state for African Affairs in the Reagan administration, Chester Crocker, who was opposed to the imposition of sanctions against Apartheid South Africa preferring what he called "constructive engagement," which latter became Washington’s official policy towards the racist regime in Pretoria.
The premise was that instead of economic sanctions on, and divestment from Pretoria, the West had to ‘‘use incentives to encourage South Africa to gradually move away from apartheid.’’
US supported an evil policy which made Africans less human in the land of their fathers
This post was edited on: 2008-05-14 at 05:06 AM by: dkaiyo
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
davyk
Joined: Jul 4, 2007
Posts: 497 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 28
Country: Zimbabwe
Province/State: Harare
City: Harare
|
Re: Nelson Mandela the terrorist........?
May 16, 2008 - 10:19 AM
|
|
Here is a country and leadership claiming to be paragons of liberty and democracy but which had no qualms placing the leaders and members of a liberation organisation that was fighting the evil system of apartheid in occupied South Africa on travel and other forms of sanctions. Instead of recognising that the likes of Oliver Tambo, Mandela and Walter Sisulu were fighting a just war against settler oppression, they were instead labelled terrorists as the US government maintained open relations with the racist regime in Pretoria.
Ironically, Washington put the ANC leadership under sanctions while it refused to impose sanctions against the racist regime that was oppressing the black majority in South Africa, preferring what they called ‘‘constructive engagement.’’
http://www.herald.co.zw/inside.aspx?sectid=34225&cat=10
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Arslan Jumaniyazov
Joined: May 13, 2004
Posts: 1358 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 32
Country: Turkmenistan
Province/State: Dashoguz
|
Re: Nelson Mandela the terrorist........?
May 17, 2008 - 04:15 PM
|
|
foster88 wrote:
Lie to you? It's a moot point now, don't you think? I do not wish to lie to you, I just want you to know that Americans are not as evil as you think we are. Why is it that your governments stick out their hands to collect our money and relief, yet you all hate us?
This goes with the territory of being the world's only superpower, much the same way England was in the 19th century.
Third world countries will always have animosity toward richer and more advanced industrial nations. It's called 'envy'.
How ungrateful were those third world countries that held animosity towards England in the 19th century, weren't they? How envious were those people, weren't they? Why would they hold animosity towards England other than just for the sake of envy?
After all, England had never done anything bad to third world countries to deserve their animosity, did it? England was doing only good things such as wholesale genocides and massacres in the Americas, Australisia, Africa, and Asia. England was bringing such wonderful things as slavery, imperialism, colonialism, and later when slavery was "abolished" what was euphemistically called "forced labor," and the wonderful English attitude of viewing non-whites as non-human, subhuman, barbarian, and savage.
Why would Indians, for instance, feel animosity toward England when the English were giving the benefit of 200-year-long racist and colonial oppression of Indians? Did the Indians forget how the so-called 1857 mutiny and many other Indian struggle against the English were suppressed in a Nazi-style use of terror? It is really amazing that third world countries had so much animosity toward peace- and freedom-loving England in the 19th century.
Oh, I forgot about British rejection.... aww, participation in the 1884-85 Berlin Conference to carve up Africa as if the latter was a private property of civilized peoples.
Arslan
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Arslan Jumaniyazov
Joined: May 13, 2004
Posts: 1358 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 32
Country: Turkmenistan
Province/State: Dashoguz
|
Re: Nelson Mandela the terrorist........?
May 17, 2008 - 04:19 PM
|
|
Your attitude, forster88, is really pathetic. Animosity toward England and USA has little to do with envy. Japan is the second richest--in per capita income, richer than America--country in the world. But animosity toward Japan doesn't even come close to that against America. Many third world countries in the world look at Japan with admiration. But you find animosity when you go to the Far East (Malaysia, China, Korea, etc.). Do they have animosity toward Japan because of envy? No. They just remember Japanese horrendous colonialism and the present pathetic refusal to duly acknowledge what Japan had wrought.
One of the most pro-American attitude you can find in Eastern Europe and one of the most anti-American sentiment you can find in the Middle East and Latin America. Doesn't it suggest you anything? If not, let me explain it to you. Eastern Europe suffered from Russian/Soviet oppression and America helped to eliminate the yoke of that oppression, while the other two suffered greatly because of America's overt and covert interventions in their countries.
It is not envy. It is about American foreign policy.
foster88, the way you speak about "third world countries" and the way you express your disdain for their sentiments, and the fact that you don't realize implications of your attitude speaks volumes, and strongly suggests that you obviously need more education than dkaiyo does.
Coming back to the original topic of this thread, no one tried to answer why Nelson Mandela was in the black list of the State Department in the first place, whereas the members of the Apartheid State were not?
Arslan
This post was edited on: 2008-05-17 at 04:21 PM by: Arslanik
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
|
Display posts from:
|
