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Luke Lieberman
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Ahmadinejad casts doubt on 9/11
April 16, 2008 - 01:32 PM
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080416/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_sept11
I wonder what families of 9/11 victims would think of this.
Sept 11 - the Holocaust - apparently no one ever really dies.
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Arslan Jumaniyazov
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Re: Ahmadinejad casts doubt on 9/11
April 16, 2008 - 02:07 PM
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Apparently, victims of 9/11 and Holocaust are understandably upset with that.
But unfortunately, there won't be any furor over Netanyahu's comment as it was with Ahmadinejad's comments.
Arslan
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Arslan Jumaniyazov
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Re: Ahmadinejad casts doubt on 9/11
April 17, 2008 - 03:01 PM
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What I am confounded with is how an attempt is made through this post to deflect attention from my post about Netanyahu's comments, as if I am in favor of Ahmadinejad's comments or as if the media is ignoring Ahmadinejad.
The entire media industry picked up Ahmadinejad's words, and even the White House responded to it by saying that they were "speechless."
Now, where is the coverage of Netanyahu's words? I knew that the American free press would quietly ignore it. I assume it is ok for Israeli leaders to make such insensitive statements. Where is the condemnation of Netanyahu?
At least, by the conscientious members of tig?
Arslan
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Ashraf
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Re: Ahmadinejad casts doubt on 9/11
April 17, 2008 - 06:46 PM
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Arslan,
Good observation
It is similar to what is happening n the 'free' media. Agencies can select what they want to focus on and neglect what they think does not suit them.
Having said this, 'Anti-semtism' and "war on terror" are what attract the western media these days. Anything else is secondary to them.
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Ahmadinejad casts doubt on 9/11
April 17, 2008 - 09:45 PM
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Arslan - I'm not deflecting anything - just firing back. I know people who died in 9/11 and Netanyahu's comments were not particularly offensive to me
he was observing a basic political fact - same thing with the attacks in Europe - they wake people up to the threats of radical Islam.
Europe is waking up now because of the bombings - the Israelis have been screaming about these threats for years and everyone just figured it was Israel's problem - well now its everyone's problem.
If YOU Arslan were evenhanded - and condemned both leaders I probably wouldn't have said anything - but on a day when Ahmadinejad is denying Sept 11 - all you care about is what Nentanyahu says.
if you disagree with Ahmadinejad then say so in your own thread - don't ignore it.
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Arslan Jumaniyazov
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Re: Ahmadinejad casts doubt on 9/11
April 17, 2008 - 11:13 PM
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Arslan -I'm not deflecting anything - just firing back.
Firing back at what? For posting the article about Netanyahu? If you go back to that thread and re-read it, I didn't condemn anyone, but simply asked how victims of 9/11 would react to this. If you also carefully read it, I did not post only the parts of article which speaks about Netanyahu, but also parts about Ahmadinejad's comments. I basically copy-pasted the entire article from haaretz and even the title belongs to the newspaper, not me.
So, the idea that I condemned only one of them (while I didn't any in written form), was your own figmentation.
Now it is clear that the article itself was focusing on Netanyahu (that was the intention of the authors) and there is a reason why I posted it. As I said, everybody picked up Ahmadinejad's comments and it is not the first time he has made imflammatory remarks. His comments are for everyone to see on major media. By the way, it is not only Ahmadinejad but also Italy's former President and Japan's opposition leader who questioned the official story of 9/11. There are thousands of people in your own country questioning it and making movies such as Loose Change. So, what is new about Ahmadinejad's comments so that you want me to focus on it? One more conspiracy theorist, so what?
I know people who died in 9/11 and Netanyahu's comments were not particularly offensive to me
Well, they were offensive to me. I'll tell you why, but let's recall what the paper quoted him saying first:
"We are benefiting from one thing, and that is the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq," Ma'ariv quoted the former prime minister as saying. He reportedly added that these events "swung American public opinion in our favor."
If the "attack on Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq" was "beneficial" to Israel, then Netanyahu certainly has a callous and perverted notion of "benefit" given the fact that the attack not only killed 3,000 Americans but also was followed by "American struggle in Iraq" which left hundreds of thousands of people dead, maimed, injured and dramatically increased the number of terrorists. If calling such tragic consequences of 9/11 "beneficial" is something you call "basic political fact," well, to borrow a phrase from White House officials, I am speechless.
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Arslan Jumaniyazov
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Re: Ahmadinejad casts doubt on 9/11
April 17, 2008 - 11:14 PM
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if you disagree with Ahmadinejad then say so in your own thread - don't ignore it.
As I said, I didn't comment on either of them in my thread. If you want me to comment on that thread, ask me there. If you are asking me here whether I agree with Ahmadinejad or not, of course not, and I disagree with him on many other issues and I deplore his Holocaust cartoon contests and inviting David Duke, restricting civil liberties in his own country, etc.
Arslan
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Ahmadinejad casts doubt on 9/11
April 18, 2008 - 11:09 AM
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"I didn't comment on either of them in my thread"
Arslan, my friend why do we have to play this game -
your thread was entitled -
"Report: Netanyahu says 9/11 terror attacks good for Israel"
and then you said - "I wonder how the relatives of 9/11 victims would take this."
why are you pretending that this question is not designed to critisize Nentanyahu - obviously it was.
so naturally I started a thread to address Ahmadinejad's comments because you ignored them. If you dealt with them I would have said nothing.
"So, what is new about Ahmadinejad's comments so that you want me to focus on it? One more conspiracy theorist, so what? "
and what is so interesting about what Nentanyahu said - one more stupid comment by Bibi - so what?
as for being speechless - Arslan for a long time Israel was basically alone in dealing with terrorism - when it became the world's problem it helped the Israelis -
but yes, what Bibi said was stupid and insensitive.
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Arslan Jumaniyazov
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Re: Ahmadinejad casts doubt on 9/11
April 18, 2008 - 01:56 PM
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Arslan, my friend why do we have to play this game -
your thread was entitled -
"Report: Netanyahu says 9/11 terror attacks good for Israel"
As I told you, it is a verbatum copy/paste, not my invention. If you have noticed that, I often do it.
and what is so interesting about what Nentanyahu said - one more stupid comment by Bibi - so what?
I'll tell you what was special about it, although I have mentioned it already--Palestinian noticed it.
Iran could make exactly the same argument. Both Taliban and Saddam were Iran's enemies and Iran fought with both of them. However, had someone like Khatami or Rafsanjani say something like "We are benefitting from the attacks on Twin Towers and American struggle in Iraq," it would be the headline all over the American media. The media magnates would make sure that everyone, especially relatives of 9/11 victims would KNOW it in order to demonize Iran further.
Also, I am sure you WOULD be particularly offended if such a comment came from Iran.
but yes, what Bibi said was stupid and insensitive.
Now you said something much closer to what I wanted to hear from you.
Arslan
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Jason Foster
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Re: Ahmadinejad casts doubt on 9/11
April 18, 2008 - 07:12 PM
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he was observing a basic political fact - same thing with the attacks in Europe - they wake people up to the threats of radical Islam.
Europe is waking up now because of the bombings - the Israelis have been screaming about these threats for years and everyone just figured it was Israel's problem - well now its everyone's problem.
Yes mate, I believe that this is what he meant as well. The attacks in NY and here in London have informed people of the threat of 'radical' Islam and now western countries know first hand what terrorism is and what Israel deals with on a daily basis.
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Ahmadinejad casts doubt on 9/11
April 18, 2008 - 10:33 PM
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"We are benefitting from the attacks on Twin Towers and American struggle in Iraq,"
that wouldn't offend me - what offends me is that it is true, not that someone points it out.
Iran is clearly benefiting from the US's overthrow of Saddam - in fact what I find more offensive is the way Iran plays the double game of reaping the benefits of the US putting the Shia in control of Iraq, and at the same time cursing the US for doing it.
But there is no question that Bush is a fool - his moves have benefitted Iran more then the US.
by the same token - The radical Islamists are fools - because their attacks have benefitted Israel more then they have benefitted muslims. The whole world is now aware of the danger of radical Islam.
I have been traveling through Europe - and things have changed, even just a few years ago they seemed largely ignorant of the threat - now they seem rather keenly aware and their backs are stiffening.
I think 7/7 and the rioting in France has alot to do with the awakening of Europe.
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