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Merlyn
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The Koran and its contradictions
April 7, 2008 - 11:45 AM
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What are the inconsistencies and contradictions in the Koran with itself and with the Hadith, if any?
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Yassir EL OUARZADI
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Re: The Koran and its contradictions
April 8, 2008 - 11:16 AM
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I don't see any contradictions in the Quran. In the opposite, it is coherent as you know. For the Hadith, you should see the "sahih" which means correct in Arabic, there are many categories of Hadith, the ones said by the Prophet Mohammed.
"The harmony of Islam with human nature helps with the spread of Islam. Now our duty and mission is to present the noble and pure Islam, as it was revealed by Allah to His Prophet (S.A). We believe that a true and comprehensive understanding of Islam would not be possible without careful recognition of the Prophetic tradition and the Prophet's household." Source: interesting website; http://www.hadith.net/english/index.htm
Yassir
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That guy
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Re: The Koran and its contradictions
April 8, 2008 - 06:16 PM
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Read it yourself.
http://www.quran-islam.org/93.html
Its a violent book about a petty god written by somebody by a poor memory judging by the multitude of holes in the plot. Enjoy.
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Yassir EL OUARZADI
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Re: The Koran and its contradictions
April 8, 2008 - 07:03 PM
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Actually there is a big difference between Muslims and Islam, you have to read the Qura'an translated in English and judge by yourself.
That's my only ADVICE for you !
Hope that helps.
Actually, if you need anything, don't hesitate to contact me, I am working with TIG this year.
Yassir, TIG Member and Staff
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Yassir EL OUARZADI
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Re: The Koran and its contradictions
April 8, 2008 - 07:06 PM
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(Dr. Rashad Khalifa, like other human efforts is also subject to have errors of translation and interpretation.) Yes, I agree that nobody is perfect, but it doesn't mean that there are contradictions.
Do you know the whole Qura'an first ? That's what you should do, study religions, that would be very interesting if you are trying to make a decision.
Yassir
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Yassir EL OUARZADI
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Re: The Koran and its contradictions
April 8, 2008 - 07:09 PM
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wvanbokk wrote:
Read it yourself.
http://www.quran-islam.org/93.html
Its a violent book about a petty god written by somebody by a poor memory judging by the multitude of holes in the plot. Enjoy.
I read you profile and I saw that you wrote the following :
(Religion:
No, thank you.
My favorite pasttimes include reading, debate and being intentionally unusual. My friends would describe me as one of the great unsolved mysteries of psychiatry.)[b]
It gives me a good idea about your personality, try to be open-minded not just to religion, but to other people ...
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Saladin
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Islamophobia watch...
April 9, 2008 - 08:46 AM
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Its a violent book about a petty god written by somebody by a poor memory judging by the multitude of holes in the plot. Enjoy.
Forgive me, but according to my understanding, the teachings of this "violent" book saved the Spanish Jewry (The Sephardim) during the Arabdom of Andalusia from the prevalent anti-Semitic inquisitions in medieval Europe. Moreover, when the Spanish reconquista retook control over Spain, again, it was the Quran that, again, offered safe heaven to the refuged Spanish Jewry, in the Ottoman Empire. The Quran saved the Sephardim from a medieval holocaust...
This is only a representative example...
Nevertheless, words like "petty god", and "somebody by a poor memory" and other inspiringingly insightful terms are hardly tolerant or constructive, and are not quite in conformity with the principles that guide a multi-cultural discussion on TIG. Moreover, this proves the unfortunate fact that Islamophobic tides are rising in some western educated cirlces.
Peace.
Ayman
This post was edited on: 2008-04-09 at 05:38 PM by: aymanelhakea
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That guy
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Re: The Koran and its contradictions
April 9, 2008 - 07:12 PM
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aymanelhakea wrote:
Its a violent book about a petty god written by somebody by a poor memory judging by the multitude of holes in the plot. Enjoy.
Forgive me, but according to my understanding, the teachings of this "violent" book saved the Spanish Jewry (The Sephardim) during the Arabdom of Andalusia from the prevalent anti-Semitic inquisitions in medieval Europe. Moreover, when the Spanish reconquista retook control over Spain, again, it was the Quran that, again, offered safe heaven to the refuged Spanish Jewry, in the Ottoman Empire. The Quran saved the Sephardim from a medieval holocaust...
This is only a representative example...
Nevertheless, words like "petty god", and "somebody by a poor memory" and other inspiringingly insightful terms are hardly tolerant or constructive, and are not quite in conformity with the principles that guide a multi-cultural discussion on TIG. Moreover, this proves the unfortunate fact that Islamophobic tides are rising in some western educated cirlces.
Peace.
Ayman
This post was edited on: 2008-04-09 at 05:38 PM by: aymanelhakea
No, people saved the Jews in the example you made. The book is sufficiently contradictory that either slaughtering them all or giving them alms would have been justifiable. Whether you deal with it or not one makes choices by choosing which parts to ignore and which parts to take to heart.
I believe that a contradiction-free version of Islam or Christianity would fail. There would be no choice, no lawyering about until it says what you want it to say. People like freedom.
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R Kahendi
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Re: The Koran and its contradictions
April 10, 2008 - 04:54 AM
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wvanbokk
No, people saved the Jews in the example you made. The book is sufficiently contradictory that either slaughtering them all or giving them alms would have been justifiable. Whether you deal with it or not one makes choices by choosing which parts to ignore and which parts to take to heart.
I believe that a contradiction-free version of Islam or Christianity would fail. There would be no choice, no lawyering about until it says what you want it to say. People like freedom.
May I point out that anything and everything connected to human beings has inconsistencies, discontinuities and gaps. I will also add that violence is (unfortunately) part of human nature.
That there is violent content in any set of scriptures is unremarkable. How can a religion address the human impulse to violence without actually talking about it? A contradiction-free version of anything would fail because every single one of us is full of contradictions.
Any religion would have to be touched by at least one of these issues, otherwise it simply wouldn't be a religion at all.
The way I see it, religious people strive to be the best that they can be but, like the rest of the world, often fail. That's understandable and forgivable.
Now back to the original question: I can't say that I know of inconsistencies in the Qur'an. As for hadith, my answer is the same. If you can't get any helpful references here, try google.
This post was edited on: 2008-04-10 at 05:03 AM by: bumbuwazed
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Saladin
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Re: The Koran and its contradictions
April 10, 2008 - 06:51 AM
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No, people saved the Jews in the example you made.
Well, you see it from this perspective. However, what made the reconquistadores strive to annihilate the non-Christian population of Iberia? And what made the Muslims preserve the Sephardim Jews?
The answer of this question lies in the Quran, with no contraditions. I'd rather say that people who followed the Quran saved the Jews.
The book is sufficiently contradictory that either slaughtering them all or giving them alms would have been justifiable.
Would you please state your references instead of throwing out one-liner claims that are hardly deemed credible, absent any proof.
Whether you deal with it or not one makes choices by choosing which parts to ignore and which parts to take to heart.
This is purely and entirely a common problem in all people, not in the text.
I believe that a contradiction-free version of Islam or Christianity would fail.
Well, let's take your own words in the second part of this sentence. It implies that you had held an assumption whereby the current version of Islam did not fail. Interesting.
The different ways in dealing with different contexts and situations in not necessarily synonymous with contradiction. I believe that Islam is "flexible" rather than "contradictory".
There would be no choice, no lawyering about until it says what you want it to say. People like freedom.
Different but uncontradictory choices would always perfectly exist within a framework of allowances and flexibility, not necessarily with "contradiction".
This post was edited on: 2008-04-10 at 07:02 AM by: aymanelhakea
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prieten47
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Re: The Koran and its contradictions
April 10, 2008 - 09:01 PM
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yassirovich wrote:
Do you know the whole Qura'an first ? That's what you should do, study religions, that would be very interesting if you are trying to make a decision.
bumbawazed wrote:
Now back to the original question: I can't say that I know of inconsistencies in the Qur'an. As for hadith, my answer is the same. If you can't get any helpful references here, try google.
Yassir, do you believe in astrology? Well, maybe you should study all of astrology first, if you are trying to make a decision.
Bumbawazed, Wvanbokk appears to be more familiar with the Quran than you are. It is full of contradictions and he cited a source. There are countless webpages documenting Quran and Hadith contradictions, math errors, justifications for slavery and misogyny, etc. Use Google or Wikipedia.
aymanelhakea wrote:
I believe that Islam is "flexible" rather than "contradictory".
You have conceded Wvanbokk's point. The Quran can be used to justify both good and bad. It is "flexible" as you say.
People, the Quran and the Hadiths, the Bible and all other religious texts were written and repeatedly revised by humans. They are obviuosly going to be full of contradictions and inconsistencies.
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Khalid
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Re: The Koran and its contradictions
April 12, 2008 - 07:38 AM
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Bumbawazed, Wvanbokk appears to be more familiar with the Quran than you are. It is full of contradictions and he cited a source. There are countless webpages documenting Quran and Hadith contradictions, math errors, justifications for slavery and misogyny, etc. Use Google or Wikipedia.
its full of contradictions?
plz excuse me and give me some examples of its contradiction with a verse in the quran itself?
4 challanges were given to the arab, they were familiar with arabic literature than u or me are, they were failed to figure out any contradiction in it or bring some verses as of quran.
a point that is important, translation of a langauge into another and then its interpretation could well be contradicting with another statment, but it shows lack on knowlege on the part of the translator and not the original script.
then arabic, its the language where u find exactly 1000 names for lion, then a name for each part of date, for its skin (the outer skin), the original part of it, then the narrow cover of the nut (or whatever u call it in english), name for the stright or line in the nut, then a different name for the thread found in the straight of the nut.
thus, its possible that one is unable to find a name for that specific part and he names it date, so contradiction could exist but its not the problem in the script rather the translator is the responsible person.
This post was edited on: 2008-04-12 at 07:42 AM by: hatamkhalid
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R Kahendi
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Re: The Koran and its contradictions
April 12, 2008 - 09:29 PM
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"Bumbawazed, Wvanbokk appears to be more familiar with the Quran than you are. It is full of contradictions and he cited a source... Use Google or Wikipedia.
"People, the Quran and the Hadiths, the Bible and all other religious texts were written and repeatedly revised by humans. They are obviuosly going to be full of contradictions and inconsistencies."
------------------------------------------------------
Actually, Prieten47, I agree with your basic point. I was simply expanding Wvanbokk's point to apply to everything in the human experience, not just to religion. I am a religious believer, but am simultaneously able to see things from the historical perspective. Wvannbokk has some thought-provoking points, but the way he chose to present them offended some people. That explains why some of the responses that follow his are defensive. My point is, instead of singling religion out as something negative, we should be able to recognize it for the good as well as the bad that it has made possible. Doing that would actually confirm what you and I are both saying: that religion is a human institution. It would also make for a less confrontational discussion.
I am not a Muslim. I have read the Qur'an and heard a number of hadith, but my focus at the time was on other aspects of Islam, so I can't remember details that would help the poster (elemental). This is why I have left it to the others to discuss specific verses and perspectives, and is also why I suggested that the original poster try Google.
I will look up the references listed by others later, but will take care while doing so. Very few websites that discuss Islam and other non-"Western" religions do so from an objective perspective. If I can find an article or website that discusses this subject from a historical/ scholarly perspective rather than from the perspective of a religious group with a religious agenda, then that'll be helpful.
This post was edited on: 2008-04-13 at 05:01 PM by: bumbuwazed
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prieten47
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Re: The Koran and its contradictions
April 13, 2008 - 09:57 PM
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Bumbuwazed and Hathamkhalid,
I think Wikipedia is a very objective source that gives both sides of a debate. Try this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Qur'an
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Khalid
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Re: The Koran and its contradictions
April 14, 2008 - 07:50 AM
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prieten47 wrote:
Bumbuwazed and Hathamkhalid,
I think Wikipedia is a very objective source that gives both sides of a debate. Try this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Qur'an
anyhow, i guess we must site reliable sources not hearsay from here and there. the article says in wiki says: "This article or section needs sources or references that appear in reliable, third-party publications.Primary sources and sources affiliated with the subject of the article are generally not sufficient for a Wikipedia article. Please include more appropriate citations from reliable sources, or discuss the issue on the talk page.
This article has been tagged since December 2007."
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