gays adopting children? - Discussion Boards

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Re: gays adopting children?
June 25, 2003 - 01:30 AM

good point.

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Not just adopted kids
June 25, 2003 - 04:39 AM

I'm always fascinated when discussions turn to adoption rights for gay individuals or couples (note: in some places, the laws governing adoption by couples is different than for single people)...

It tends to obscure the reality that the bulk of families with gay parents include children who are "blood relatives" of one of the parents. In the past, due to societal prejudice and other factors, many people did not identify themselves as gay or lesbian until later in life - frequently after marrying someone of the opposite sex and having children. Depending on each birth parent's situation and the terms of the divorce, the children could remain in the custody of the gay/lesbian parent.

By and large, the courts in Canada have recognized that custody battles over children, the best interests of the child have nothing to do with the parents' sexual orientations and everything to do with their ability to provide a stable and loving environment.

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Should't be
June 25, 2003 - 06:30 AM

Since all homosexuals were not born that way, but according to 1970 Kinsey Institute study 81% of 684 gays and 93% of 293 lesbians had changed or shifted either their sexual feelings or behaviors after age 12. Thus, in my money, gay/lesbian marriage shouldn’t be legalized. coz it will encourage homosexuality among young people who are very much keen in taking risks and you know how easy it is to turn from a straight to gay/lesbian. smile

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Re: gays adopting children?
June 25, 2003 - 08:07 AM

I'm sure I don't need to tell you this, but a study carried out in 1970 would not be too representative of things today. For one, prejudice towards homosexuality was far more rampant and acceptance much more scarce. Also, our sexual preferences aren't solidified until after puberty - usually around age 12. And after that, it's very understandable for someone feeling 'unacceptable' sexual inclinations to experiment and attempt to fit 'the mold', so to speak, of what society generally feels is appropriate sexual behaviour.

I personally don't know how easy it is to 'turn' from 'straight' to 'gay/lesbian', but I imagine it has less to do with 'changing' than accepting how one is.

I don't think there will be any rush to experiment in same-sex practices now that same-sex marriage is legal in Canada.

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Re: gays adopting children?
June 25, 2003 - 08:28 AM

I read an interesting article in Amnesty USA's magazine yesterday (I would link to it, but I don't remember my password, which is unusual since I only have about two total, and am barred from entering the page where it would be posted.) Anyways, it was about Egypt's crackdown on men perceived as being gay by Egypt's police. Before the crackdown, Egypt had a "vibrant gay community" offering men in a conservative society a place to socialize and talk about building a movement.

Here are 2 paragraphs:

"Just back from Egypt, where he spent three months documenting the abuse of gay men, Scott Long of Human Rights Watch told a chilling story of how the police tortured and killed one young gay man and then, in a transparent attempt to make the death look like a suicide, threw his body off a building.

There are no hard figures, but Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch estimate that in the past two years, police have arrested up to 200 men for 'debauchery,' the official codeword for homosexuality. Not all meet such a horrible ending as torture and death, but it is far to say that most of their lives are shredded by the stigma of being gay in Egypt".

I think that offering gays full rights- marriage, children, is an important step in ending ignorance and hate like this. So many people will say "I agree that torturing gays is wrong, but-" and the "but" ends up weakening any message of acceptance.

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Re: gays adopting children?
June 25, 2003 - 09:47 AM

Originally posted by Jacob

but a study carried out in 1970 would not be too representative of things today.

Also, our sexual preferences aren't solidified until after puberty - usually around age 12.

I personally don't know how easy it is to 'turn' from 'straight' to 'gay/lesbian', but I imagine it has less to do with 'changing' than accepting how one is.

I don't think there will be any rush to experiment in same-sex practices now that same-sex marriage is legal in Canada.

Step no. 1: Nope, it can be, but for your info. It was updated and the latest studies say almost the same thing. :P

Step no. 1: In a study they see that by which side the human harmon is attracted? Homo or heterosexual, where they found many of them didn’t have the same harmonies as the natural homosexuals do. But they change their sexual orientation coz of some reasons. wink

Step no. 3: There are many people who became homosexuals latter on or bisexuals at least. In my opinion, it depends on your company as well. There were woman who were not lesbians by default (naturally) but coz of living with lesbian community they got hunted and started practicing the same, or at least adopted bisexuality. I agree that gay/lesbians are naturally the same way but not all there are many many examples of change in sexual orientation (gay to straight, straight to gay), which can’t be ignored. smile

Step no. 4: About Canada, I don’t know when they have legalized it, if it is new then let see and wait until the results come out of this. Coz the results are often not displayed very quickly. You know homosexuality is a high risk for physical, mental and emotional problems. Besides, according to fresh studies it causes too many health matters including annul cancer in case of gay. sad

Step no. 5: Have a nice day, smile

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Re: gays adopting children?
June 25, 2003 - 10:37 AM

I'd be interested if you could, somehow, post the study or a link to it so I could take a look at it.

One thing to note, there is a difference in simply having sex with someone of the same sex, and actually being a homosexual. Interestingly enough, male-male sex is common in prisons, and be sure not exclusively among gays! Simply engaging in such a sexual act does not make someone homosexual. Sex between others of the same sex is merely an act. The proper instincts behind the act are what define a person as homosexual. Ask anyone you know who is gay.

I've lived in Canada all my life, and I can tell you for certain that there will be no mass-movement towards homosexuality. Besides, if you look into it, homosexuality has been around for centuries and, some say, in relative numbers. The true facts behind it depend on the climate and acceptance of one's society.

Some believe even William Shakespeare was homosexual! There were no gay clubs then so he surely couldn't have 'gotten' it through peer influence.

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Re: gays adopting children?
June 25, 2003 - 11:32 AM

As someone with gay friends, I have to say that their influence hasn't made me more homosexual. Perhaps being around gays could influence someone trying to repress their sexual orientation to become more open- they see that someone else has done so successfully and thus are encouraged to be truthful themselves.

Omar: As far as I'm aware, study after study has shown the opposite of what you wrote. Some things are just biological, and not really in our control. All kinds of different religions have attempted to "fix" gays and lesbians, and not with much success. Can you imagine how much it hurts to be rejected in a time of emotional crisis by your religion? Think about it logically... you said that young people are too maleable and could become gay after spending time with someone who is already gay. I'm assuming you're straight on the basis that most people wouldn't want to deny themselves rights. Well, can you imagine being gay? Not being attracted to women? Liking other men, for the rest of your life?

Why would anyone want to endure the harassment people who are openly gay are subjected to unless they really were gay?

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Re: gays adopting children?
June 25, 2003 - 11:44 AM

Personally, I would say that they should be able to if they wish to.
A person's sexual orientation doesn't make them any less of a caring person.
I don't think that a child's sexual orientation would be affected, after all... homosexuals come from families with straight parents, so it can just as easily happen the other way around.

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Re: gays adopting children?
June 25, 2003 - 11:45 AM

I don't know if you've heard, but Canada has just become one of the few nations to legalize same sex marriages. The argument protecting marriage as a sacred union between man and wife alone could not hold up in law. It was discriminatory and unjustifiable.

By popular convention, same sex couples should not be allowed to adopt and raise children, and should not be legally allowed to marry. The effects on children and society, it is argued, resulting by this would be too adverse and too great.

Of course, what is popular convention except for a dominant manner of going about matters such as marriage and family. And who is to say that any consequences would truely be adverse?

I belive that it's our perceptions that need to change, not the natural inclinations of any group, already oppressed and ostracized by society too often as it is.

Sexual orientation - to the very best of my knowledege and understanding of others I've chatted with - is not something one picks and chooses, and not something that environment shapes to any degree. If I'm around gay people I don't feel any 'gayer'.
Sexual orientation is, to the best of my undestanding, entirely internal and not something outside factors have any significant influence upon.

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Re: gays adopting children?
June 25, 2003 - 11:51 AM

"... homosexuals come from families with straight parents, so it can just as easily happen the other way around."

Well put, "angel". Having just thought about this some more, I think that there exists a negative stigma against gay couples seeking the right to a family of their own.
Just as only certain heterosexuals feel so passionate in their inclination to begin a family, and are in most rights very suitable to raise one, so too are homosexuals equally suitable to raise one.

There are many gay people out there who I wouldn't want raising a kid. But there are probably just the same amount of straight people in the same boat, in my opinion.

Also, speaking even more personally, the nicest people I have ever met in my life have all been gay. ?

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Re: gays adopting children?
June 25, 2003 - 12:35 PM

I don't know that I would go as far as saying that the nicest people I've met in my life have all been gay, but I do have a few good friends who are gay. I doubt it's much more than a coincidence... straight people can be nice too! However, being gay often makes people more sensitized to other's differences and hurts because they've been in painful situations themselves.

I'm definitely for gay marriage and adoption...I feel more uncomfortable placing children in homes where they learn that gay people are bad and "corrupt" children into also becoming gay. I've only met one person raised by gay parents, but she was as close to being normal as anyone is. There are so many children waiting for adoption who are "less than perfect"...older than most adoptive parents want, mentally and/or physically disabled...how can anyone say that they're better off in a governmental system that, at least here, has lost several children, split up countless families and shuffled others in foster care from family to family?

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Re: gays adopting children?
June 26, 2003 - 01:06 AM

Omar: what about Egypt? Is there sex-ed there? If there is, I really doubt that it includes any mention of homosexuality. So how to explain Egypt's gay community? And the fact that some Egyptian men felt sufficiently endangered to move to the US, rather than subjecting themselves to the hatred of those around them?

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Re: gays adopting children?
June 26, 2003 - 01:33 AM

Unfortunately I understand little about Bangledesh society. I can speak only from a North American perspective and with my own common sense and education.

One can coercively change their sexual behaviour, but that doesn't necessarily include their attitudes, feelings and character, which is needed to truly 'convert' someone as you suggest, and is also fundamental to one's being.

Your quote is on par with stating that someone can forget and deny one's own family or history, for example (as intangible characteristics fundamental to one's self) if only the will and desire is there. There is no personal imperative to change either, I would argue, only to succumb to society's hardend expectations.

So far as legalizing same-sex marriage helping to promote homosexuality, I have this to say: There is no cause other than fundamental human rights, well established and protected in law by most nations (as per United Nations' Charter, UN Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and other assumed state law of similar nature), and no promotion, merely the rightful acceptance of something which has been injustly neglected and poorly addressed since before you and I were aged enough to discuss it.

I'm not sure what level of oppression exists in Bangledesh society, but the only situation I can envision where some teen-aged youth would be prone to any influence on his/her sexual preference would be where he/she has been denied the ability to properly develop and therefore lacked such basic knowledge of one's self in such an intimate way.

Other countries are at different levels of development and with much different social climates, so immediate acceptance is not realistic. But fundamentally, and philosophically, I am convinced that to deny rights to same-sex couples, as they exist for other couples, is wrong.

I don't think there's much love in prisons either.