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Yvonne Shao
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Current conflict in Tibet
March 18, 2008 - 10:25 PM
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The WorldPublicOpinion.org poll found that the West was overwhelmingly critical of Chinese rule of Tibet.
I just wanted to see what everyone thought about the situation in Tibet and whether most people in the West do vehemently support the independence of Tibet.
I can’t help but feel Western media is biased towards the situation. Focusing on images of wounded monks and brutal police and skimping on facts such as Tibetians attacking ethnic Chinese.
The BBC reported: One Han Chinese was stabbed by a Tibetan directly in front of the institute of traditional Tibetan medicine, a witness said.
However I hardly see this kind of news in the major newspapers and television news bulletins.
I understand that this protest was supposed to be peaceful and non-violent. However Tibetan civilians have been rioting, killing people and causing havoc in the streets. Wouldn’t any Western government respond the same way as the Chinese government, by sending out police to quell the violence? Is there a double standard because this is the Chinese government in question?
I don’t believe such havoc caused by the Tibetans is going to be a successful way to gain support from the international community and ultimately independence.
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LauraK
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Re: Current conflict in Tibet
March 20, 2008 - 12:57 PM
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I think there is a lot of sympathy for Tibet in the West - It appeals to a lot of people here (especially college-age people) because its a romantic cause - i.e. saving a peace-loving people from an unjust occupation. Also the Dalai Lama does a very good job bringing attention and sympathy to the cause, he is a respected figure in the West because he preaches non-violence, and that is a big contrast to the perception people have of the occupying force: China, which is seen as oppressive (towards Tibet) and is known to use violence (i.e. capital punishment).
I think that you have a point, when you say that Western media favours the Tibetan perspective - focusing on Chinese oppression/reaction to the riots rather than the violence against ethnic Chinese civilians by Tibetans - although I have seen videos on the news of Tibetan crowds (monks included) chasing and beating people (whom I assumed were ethnic Chinese). It was pretty disturbing to watch - but even though it is an ugly reaction, it is a reaction from a people who have been occupied for half a century - obviously against their will.
And the upcoming Beijing Olympics are an opportunity for them to bring attention to their situation again - although beating up their ethnic Chinese neighbours is not a nice way to get that attention at all.
[I also saw a piece on the news the other day - they were talking to someone from a Tibet-Canada relations organization who said that there were allegations (unproven so far) that Chinese agents dressed as Tibetan monks were in the crowds inciting violence ... for what purpose I'm not sure ...? to give them an excuse to clamp down in Tibet again? I don't know - it seems pretty counterproductive for a country that wants to show off its best side to the world at the upcoming Olympics ... but obviously it was just a rumour.]
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Nepalese Teacher
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Re: Current conflict in Tibet
March 23, 2008 - 06:49 AM
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I strongly say that history cannot be revised in the context of 21st century global village by any means violent or non-violent.
Western media shouldn't orientate towards revising the history. This is not 1940's.
my comments......this much
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John
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Re: Current conflict in Tibet
March 23, 2008 - 03:51 PM
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Dulal,
Could you say more in regard to what you mean by writing that history can't be revised by violent/non-violent means? What history, or rather to whose version of history do you refer?
In respect to the question of Western media, I agree that there is a definite bias toward Tibet. But this is no surprise. Condemnation of China allows the U.S. to appear superior in terms of representing Democracy/Freedom/Independence.
I would like to pose another question:
Will China ever allow Tibet to have full independence? Why or why not?
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Nepalese Teacher
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Re: Current conflict in Tibet
March 24, 2008 - 05:33 AM
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History cannot be revised in 21st century global village ::
Basically, if the STATE provides basic needs for its citizens with economic freedom, then it shouldn't be ready to SIGN in any deals with agigators.
There is equal chance of disintegration.
Also there are many philosophers who define democracy. So any new advocate is a new brick in the wall.
Democracy is not sole term for West, or USA, it is our culture too.
Democracy has many faces. Correct face cannot be found in Asia easily..more over not in Europe and US.
I also pose you a single question to you? Can a poor from coastal areas of your nation become the top leader of any party ..and gradually a president? If there is an example ..except Lincoln..please refer me.. i am also a student trying to learn politics.
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Nick Yeo
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Re: Current conflict in Tibet
March 24, 2008 - 04:44 PM
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Oohh...current affairs thread on Tibet...exciting..
And I'm not being facetious at all...
I agree with what has been said earlier that the Tibetan cause has been overtly romanticized by the West (to be more specific, privileged college-aged students) - which isn't to say that we should turn a blind eye to what's going on there. Rather, we need to look in the mirror and ask ourselves: Why do we want a "free" Tibet?
And what constitutes freedom? Freedom by the standards of liberal democracies where the gap between the very richest and the very poorest is unfathomable? Freedom to be able to have a decent meal, shelter over your head, at the cost having been told what to say, when to say etc?
By what right should the concept of democracy be exported from one corner of the world to the other? Dulal - you make a good point that democracy has many faces...a relative of mine was relaying an interview with a chinese official on a news show last night. When pressed about Tibet, and human right violations - the Chinese official basically said the same thing: What happens/ed in Tibet is the official response that the Chinese gov't takes when their rules are being broken. What works in Washington/Ottawa/London/etc. does not necessarily work in Beijing/Lhasa/Hong Kong/etc.
One more thing - something that tends to be glossed over by some media outlets: the Dalai Lama doesn't want independence. He doesn't want freedom in that sense - he would prefer autonomy in the same style as Hong Kong (i'm presuming) - but if that isn't good enough for the West, then what?
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hekatea
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Re: Current conflict in Tibet
March 27, 2008 - 11:52 AM
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Why not free Tibet? and Why not live independently, cooperatively and peacefully?
I certainly do not condone violence on the part of Tibet or China.
Why does China want to rule over Tibet? Can you enlighten me on this part?
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Nick Yeo
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Re: Current conflict in Tibet
March 27, 2008 - 12:10 PM
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Katea wrote:
Why not free Tibet? and Why not live independently, cooperatively and peacefully?
I certainly do not condone violence on the part of Tibet or China.
Why does China want to rule over Tibet? Can you enlighten me on this part?
Katea - I'm not saying that Tibet should not be free or independent, but what I'm saying is that we need to be careful when applying Western ideals in an Eastern context.
As for the reasons why China feels Tibet "belongs" to them - historically China has ruled Tibet on and off for thousands of years. Different dynasties have marched in and ruled with heavy and light hands - in some cases Tibetan leaders have paid tribute/fealty to Beijing, and other times they have preferred to take a more independent stance.
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hekatea
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Re: Current conflict in Tibet
March 27, 2008 - 12:31 PM
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Katea - I'm not saying that Tibet should not be free or independent, but what I'm saying is that we need to be careful when applying Western ideals in an Eastern context.
As for the reasons why China feels Tibet "belongs" to them - historically China has ruled Tibet on and off for thousands of years. Different dynasties have marched in and ruled with heavy and light hands - in some cases Tibetan leaders have paid tribute/fealty to Beijing, and other times they have preferred to take a more independent stance.
Ohhh, I am not really saying that you dont agree. It's more of a statement, actually. And I know what you mean when you say Western ideals as I am also sometimes skeptic of it. In that case, let the Tibetans speak for themselves. If they have been mothered my China for the longest time and now they feel that they need to move on and be more independent, it is just right to let them so. The only thing that would matter is that, what is in it with China? I mean, what could be the reason for not letting them go because they feel Tibet belongs to them?
I always thought that Tibet is a different country from China. So is it safe to say that Tibet is actually a colony of China? For me, nobody really knows about Tibet except the Tibetans and so they have all the right to express what they feel (non-violently of course) and act to the dictate of their wisdom, if I may call.
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Jimmy McPhee
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Re: Current conflict in Tibet
March 27, 2008 - 10:16 PM
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I agree with all of you, and think that freeing Tibet is a just cause.
It is a peace-loving region that has been taken over by the Chinese, who enforce laws upon them. and it would be great if us West boys could just step in and help Tibet to its well-deserved freedom.
It would also be great if China was passive and would let us help the Tibetans, but, of course China will turn this into some sort of conflict with us, as they believe that the land in Tibet belongs to them. Tibet has been occupied by China since March 1959, do you think that the Chinese will give up that huge chunk of land that easily?
Sorry, but it's just not a good idea. I don't really think we need overly hostile feelings with China, who, might I add, has an enormous military.
Sure, it sounds good when you're talking about it.
But I'm from America, and I might be a bit biased because we are spending countless military power in Iraq right now, and almost nothing is being done. It's a different situation there, but it's still hostile feelings with another country. I don't think we need any problems with other countries right now, or we will become overwhelmed.
or maybe I'm just talking out of my ass.
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John
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Re: Current conflict in Tibet
March 28, 2008 - 04:16 AM
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Why is China so interested in preventing Tibetan independence?
3 reasons: Resources, Resources, Resources.
See the following article:
http://money.cnn.com/2007/02/20/magazines/fortune/lustgarten_china.fortune/index.htm
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Nepalese Teacher
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Re: Current conflict in Tibet
March 28, 2008 - 10:50 PM
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Katea,
I also condemn your opinions. Historically, Tibet, Nepal, China, India were remote lands with FEUDAL type of state-governance. They were busy on invading each others territory.
Even our small Himalayan State (moving to strong republic) - Nepal was very big state with strong empires and military.
Nepal also had periodically invaded regions of Tibet, but always Chinese Government had militarily supported Tibetan authorities.
Actually, from the historic age, China was directly or indirectly managing the governance of the Tibet, which got official declaration some 50 years back.
Can you please enlighten me about some issues ::
1> There are different faces of democracy, so
have you found all faces so clean to serve the nation and peoples?
2> If you condemn invasions, then Nepal also had more than 150 states before unification with different cultures and languages. Can we raise issue of independence now?
3> If there are resources in some poor places? Won't any government wish to take control of it crossing the limits of regionality and political structures? for example the US government's movements?
I THINK THAT THIS GLOBE, HAS MORE POPULATION AND RESPECTIVE DEMANDS.
THE STATE WILL APPLY ANY OF ITS ADVANCES.
SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST : THE THEORY WILL NEVER FADE OUT.
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John
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Re: Current conflict in Tibet
March 29, 2008 - 04:11 AM
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3> If there are resources in some poor places? Won't any government wish to take control of it crossing the limits of regionality and political structures? for example the US government's movements?
I THINK THAT THIS GLOBE, HAS MORE POPULATION AND RESPECTIVE DEMANDS.
THE STATE WILL APPLY ANY OF ITS ADVANCES.
SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST : THE THEORY WILL NEVER FADE OUT.
On the issue of resources, yes, of course any government will wish to take control and exploit valuable resources. But that doesn't make it right. The U.S. Gov't is the worse of all--as is often cited, we use 25% of the world's resources and only have 5% of the population. This is not sustainable for long. The same goes for China. They desperately need the wealth of resources that are available in Tibet if they want to continue expanding their economy at its current rate. In addition to all of the mineral resources, all of the major rivers in S. Asia have their source in Tibet--this will be next great war: The Water War.
Ultimately, we need to change the way we think, eat, and live in order to continue surviving as a species. Yes, survival of the fittest, but Nature may prove to be the strongest force of all.
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hekatea
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Re: Current conflict in Tibet
March 29, 2008 - 10:41 AM
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dulal wrote:
Katea,
I also condemn your opinions. Historically, Tibet, Nepal, China, India were remote lands with FEUDAL type of state-governance. ...
Nepal was very big state with strong empires and military.
Nepal also had periodically invaded regions of Tibet, but always Chinese Government had militarily supported Tibetan authorities.
1> There are different faces of democracy, so
have you found all faces so clean to serve the nation and peoples?
2> If you condemn invasions, then Nepal also had more than 150 states before unification with different cultures and languages. Can we raise issue of independence now?
3> If there are resources in some poor places? Won't any government wish to take control of it crossing the limits of regionality and political structures? for example the US government's movements?
SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST : THE THEORY WILL NEVER FADE OUT.
Dulal, sorry if I got it wrong. But I don't get it when you say you "condemn my opinions" I only meant to say that if we respect each other's territory, war and abuses would have been prevented. I go for peace and cooperation among nations, if you don't agree with that, that is your opinion and I respect that. But to condemn my opinions is something else.
Actually, just in case you are not aware of, there are two sides of "survival of the fittest": (1) struggle to survive which is individualistic, and (2) Kropotkin's idea of supporting co-operation and practicing mutual aid. I will, of course, go for the latter.
It is true that those who are greedy for resources and power will always apply its advances on other "weaker" nations. But the point is, don't these smaller nations have the right to defend themselves? Government to government conspiracy has always been there too and I am talking about the officials. However, if we ask the opinions of the people, that would make the difference.
You know there is no one absolute truth, no one absolute answer to a question, and there is no one path for all people to take. That is why everything is relative. I see it from a different perspective. You see it from a different angle as well. I only sympathize for people who call for independence because it is through them that I can best identify myself with.
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Nick Yeo
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Re: Current conflict in Tibet
March 29, 2008 - 02:54 PM
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Katea wrote:
I always thought that Tibet is a different country from China. So is it safe to say that Tibet is actually a colony of China?
That is an excellent question - and like GringoSalsero said - it's all about the resources - ie. it's all about money. China sees in Tibet a vast vault of energy, minerals and land that the communist party in Beijing can profit from. And yes, if you have the world's largest population, you need to feed them in any which way you can - the path China has chosen is to annex Tibet.
1> There are different faces of democracy, so
have you found all faces so clean to serve the nation and peoples?
2> If you condemn invasions, then Nepal also had more than 150 states before unification with different cultures and languages. Can we raise issue of independence now?
3> If there are resources in some poor places? Won't any government wish to take control of it crossing the limits of regionality and political structures? for example the US government's movements?
Dulal - you ask some very important questions, I hope I can help answer them for you:
1. I think you're asking if there is one form of governance that works for everyone - and if not, I do apologize for not answering your question - but really - no, there isn't. Democracy - as a way of governance/philosophy - is based on principles that are not always accepted in certain parts of the world. Before we could even begin to institute any one way of doing things, we first need to get over these disagreements.
2. Nepal itself is another sticky situation - where the people who are rebelling are Maoists (groups inspired by Communist China). I think there we are seeing the final stages where a monarchy is clinging on to a vision of its past glory, instead of accepting a new reality. However, I don't think that the situation of Tibet is comparable to Nepal.
3. I don't think anyone here is advocating that the "stronger" countries march over borders into "weaker" countries for resources - although I think we can all agree that the US is doing that.
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