 Author |
 Post
|
 |
|
Sockit2Ya
Joined: Feb 27, 2007
Posts: 311 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male & 30
Country: Canada
Province/State: Northwest Territories
|
Palestinian gunmen kill 8 at Jerusalem seminary
March 6, 2008 - 06:50 PM
|
|
JERUSALEM - A gunman entered the library of a rabbinical seminary and opened fire on a crowded nighttime study session Thursday, killing eight people and wounding nine before he was slain, police and rescue workers said. It was the first major militant attack in Jerusalem in more than four years.
Hamas militants in the Gaza Strip praised the operation in a statement, and thousands of Palestinians took to the streets of Gaza to celebrate.
Israeli government spokesman Mark Regev and moderate Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas condemned the shooting. But Regev said the Palestinian government must take steps against the extremists — not just denounce their attacks.
"Tonight's massacre in Jerusalem is a defining moment," he told The Associated Press. "It is clear that those people celebrating this bloodshed have shown themselves to be not only the enemies of Israel but of all of humanity."
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, who only on Wednesday persuaded Abbas to return to peace talks with Israel, called the attack an "act of terror and depravity."
Israeli defense officials said the attacker came from east Jerusalem, the predominantly Palestinian section of the city. Jerusalem's Palestinians have Israeli ID cards that give them freedom of movement in Israel, unlike Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza.
Hamas stopped just short of claiming responsibility for the Jerusalem shootings. "We bless the operation. It will not be the last," Hamas said in a statement sent to reporters by text message.
At mosques in Gaza City and the northern Gaza Strip, many residents performed prayers of thanksgiving — only performed in cases of great victory to thank God.
About 7,000 Gazans marched in the streets of Jebaliya, firing in the air in celebration, and visited homes of those killed and wounded in the last Israeli incursion. In the southern town of Rafah, residents distributed sweets to moving cars, and militants fired mortars in celebration.
Israel's Foreign Ministry condemned the "abominable" attack and urged the world to rally with it against terrorism. "Israel expects the nations of the world to support it in its war against those who murder students, women and children, by any means and with respect for neither place nor target," it said.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080306/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians
This act of terrorism is digusting, and should be condemned by any decent human being. The Palestinians in Gaza, however, thought it nice to celebrate.....deplorable!
This post was edited on: 2008-03-06 at 08:01 PM by: stevew
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
activistupdates
Joined: Mar 6, 2008
Posts: 8 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Soft-spoken
User is
Offline
Age: 28
Country: Australia
|
Re: Palestinian gunmen kill 8 at Jerusalem seminary
March 6, 2008 - 09:26 PM
|
|
Yes, deplorable...
...and that's it?
Wait a second here...
Gaza is the 21st century's Warsaw Ghetto:
Walled in on all sides...
no food...
no water....
no jobs...
Tanks and planes versus stones and the occasional old gun...
An official policy of 'collective punishment' ('cause they're all the same apparently)...
Israeli generals talking about 'visiting a holocaust' on Gaza...
40 Palestinians killed for each 1 Israeli life...
...mainly civilians, mainly young, often shot by snipers in the head
...house raids and demolitions
...tens of thousands of political prisoners arbitrarily thrown in Israeli prisons...
...shall I go on? Torture, secret police, blocked ambulances, the worst kinds of racism...
One atrocity does not cancel one from the other side, but to not even mention the greatest crime against humanity of our time in such a way... that is also deplorable.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Sockit2Ya
Joined: Feb 27, 2007
Posts: 311 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 30
Country: Canada
Province/State: Northwest Territories
|
Re: Palestinian gunmen kill 8 at Jerusalem seminary
March 6, 2008 - 11:37 PM
|
|
And yet none of that would be happening if Hamas recognized Israel's right to exist and stop committing terrorist attacks on a daily basis against Israel.
Palestinians only have Hamas to blame and their arab mentality that Israel must be destroyed.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
activistupdates
Joined: Mar 6, 2008
Posts: 8 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Soft-spoken
User is
Offline
Age: 28
Country: Australia
|
Re: Palestinian gunmen kill 8 at Jerusalem seminary
March 7, 2008 - 12:00 AM
|
|
Israel is a state based on the idea that there should be an exclusive bit of land which only Jews are allowed to rule. To keep non-Jews from forming a majority they are excluded from the country and driven into cantons.
This same policy was what was done in South Africa with Apartheid and it is now quite acceptable to say that South Africa in its Apartheid form had no right to exist. Similarly, while Jews and non-Jews have a right to live as equals together in the the area of Israel/Palestine, neither has the right to run a state that ethnically cleanses itself of people with backgrounds or religions it does not like.
On these grounds I would say Hamas is quite justified in rejecting the Apartheid state of Israel, a position which a number of Israelis are adopting themselves.
Plus, I would have to say that you do yourself no favours by justifying oppression on the basis of actions that directly result from that oppression... or by saying things like "their arab mentality"...
...are you so foolish as to not recognise where such racism leads?
This post was edited on: 2008-03-07 at 12:01 AM by: activistupdates
This post was edited on: 2008-03-07 at 12:02 AM by: activistupdates
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
dromarof
Joined: Dec 24, 2005
Posts: 348 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 39
Country: Japan
|
Re: Palestinian gunmen kill 8 at Jerusalem seminary
March 7, 2008 - 12:03 AM
|
|
stevew,
Have you ever read the Torah??? Isn't Israel based on religous basis?
Just wondering.
This post was edited on: 2008-03-07 at 12:04 AM by: dromarof
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Sockit2Ya
Joined: Feb 27, 2007
Posts: 311 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 30
Country: Canada
Province/State: Northwest Territories
|
Re: Palestinian gunmen kill 8 at Jerusalem seminary
March 7, 2008 - 09:42 AM
|
|
Try living in a part of the world where every arab/Muslim depises you and your faith and your right to exist, then this exclusive bit of land comes into perspective. Why don't you mention how Jews have been treated in Muslim countries?
I would say Israel has a right to exist free from arab aggression and terrorism, which is clearly Hamas' position toward Israel and Jews.
Remember how the occupation began in the first place?
This post was edited on: 2008-03-07 at 10:34 AM by: stevew
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Luke Lieberman
Joined: Feb 13, 2003
Posts: 3007 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 33
Country: United States
Province/State: California
|
Re: Palestinian gunmen kill 8 at Jerusalem seminary
March 7, 2008 - 01:03 PM
|
|
"On these grounds I would say Hamas is quite justified"
sure - I wonder how you would feel if the Aborigines were firing missiles at Melborn.
it is sad you lack the moral clarity to simply condemn a guy who comes shoots up a school - it is obviously targeting civilians.
But regardless - hearing you critique of Israel I wonder how you can support Hamas - who hopes to create an Islamic state where Sharia Law rules.
This basically means their goal is to create a state where Muslim religious law - which naturally favors muslims - is the law of the land.
I will quote on of their leaders recent statements - echem...
"There is no place for Jews in the Holy Land"
- are you so foolish as to not recognise where such racism leads??
"to not even mention the greatest crime against humanity of our time"
You mean Somolia? Sudan? Serra Leone? Rwanda? East Timor? Sri Lanka?
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Ashraf
Joined: Jan 31, 2004
Posts: 628 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 39
Country: Saudi Arabia
|
Re: Palestinian gunmen kill 8 at Jerusalem seminary
March 7, 2008 - 03:15 PM
|
|
stevew wrote:
Try living in a part of the world where every arab/Muslim depises you and your faith and your right to exist, then this exclusive bit of land comes into perspective. Why don't you mention how Jews have been treated in Muslim countries?
I would say Israel has a right to exist free from arab aggression and terrorism, which is clearly Hamas' position toward Israel and Jews.
Remember how the occupation began in the first place?
This post was edited on: 2008-03-07 at 10:34 AM by: stevew
Hamas is a resistance movement. It fights to liberate the occupied land from the zionist occupation. If that is "terrorism", then all oi your ancestors who fought the Nazi occupation of Europe were nothing but terrorists. Yeah..one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Luke Lieberman
Joined: Feb 13, 2003
Posts: 3007 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 33
Country: United States
Province/State: California
|
Re: Palestinian gunmen kill 8 at Jerusalem seminary
March 7, 2008 - 03:35 PM
|
|
And did shooting up unarmed students in a school make you free?
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
vampireslayer
Joined: Jan 26, 2007
Posts: 15 (view all)
Poster Rank:
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 25
Country: Egypt
Province/State: Al Iskandariyah
City: Ash Shatibi
|
Re: Palestinian gunmen kill 8 at Jerusalem seminary
March 7, 2008 - 04:00 PM
|
|
"But regardless - hearing you critique of Israel I wonder how you can support Hamas - who hopes to create an Islamic state where Sharia Law rules."luke
This basically means their goal is to create a state where Muslim religious law - which naturally favors muslims - is the law of the land.
If u are really concerned that islam sharia rules its great mistake u done in thinking that way as this means u are assuming islam is in favour of muslims believe me if islam sharia is the ruling law every single human in the world will be safer than his mothers hands plz read about islam from a trustful source first before making such judgement
"every arab/Muslim depises you and your faith"stev
well again u don’t know that we despise who ever opress our right to live who ever he is besides islam commit us to respesct all religions and respect all prophets and messengers so be sure that this despise came from long years of blood shed by jews hands so if we hate some thing its jews act not their faith
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Sockit2Ya
Joined: Feb 27, 2007
Posts: 311 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 30
Country: Canada
Province/State: Northwest Territories
|
Re: Palestinian gunmen kill 8 at Jerusalem seminary
March 7, 2008 - 06:02 PM
|
|
Hamas is a resistance movement. It fights to liberate the occupied land from the zionist occupation. If that is "terrorism", then all oi your ancestors who fought the Nazi occupation of Europe were nothing but terrorists. Yeah..one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter
How and why did the occupation begin in the first place?
And what are Hamas resisting anyway, the right of Israel to defend itself from arab despots trying to destroy their very existence?
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Amanda
Joined: Jan 12, 2008
Posts: 5 (view all)
Poster Rank:
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Female, 27
Country: United States
|
Re: Palestinian gunmen kill 8 at Jerusalem seminary
March 7, 2008 - 08:20 PM
|
|
Neutrally speaking, the Jewish people have been repressed and targeted by Arabs (mostly for religious reasons) and the Arabs have been repressed and trageted by Jews for hundreds of thousands of years. The British/UN gave Israel the land, booted the native Palestinians out and has resulted in havoc ever since. Shouldnt the Palestinians at LEAST be given an unoccupied area to call home - as the Jews were? Both groups deserve to live freely and peacefully - as does all of humanity.... Hamas is NOT going to give up their cause - they want some of "their" land back - at the least.
Just my opinion....
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
activistupdates
Joined: Mar 6, 2008
Posts: 8 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Soft-spoken
User is
Offline
Age: 28
Country: Australia
|
Re: Palestinian gunmen kill 8 at Jerusalem seminary
March 10, 2008 - 09:41 PM
|
|
And so it begins... the usual misrepresentations and selective quotes that the anonymity of the internet allows - again showing that too many people in this debate become blinded by their 'side'. To bring things back to reality though, I just wanted to clarify my position in relation to a few things.
1:
"it is sad you lack the moral clarity to simply condemn a guy who comes shoots up a school - it is obviously targeting civilians."
I do condemn the killer. If you read my first post I described the attack as "deplorable" and an "atrocity". I am not a supporter of attacks on civilians, whether Israeli or Palestinian. I'm very clear on the morality of the situation.
2:
"Try living in a part of the world where every arab/Muslim depises you and your faith and your right to exist, then this exclusive bit of land comes into perspective."
Does "every arab/Muslim despise you and your faith and your right to exist"? I would say some do (as in all societies), but generally Palestinians are politically conscious enough to distinguish between the state of Israel and Israelis and between Zionism and Judaism. The great efforts of Israelis and Palestinians who are working together against the occupation in places like Bi'lin show that there is a great willingness from most Palestinians to live in a truly democratic and non-sectarian society with Israelis. After all, through most of the history of the region Jews and non-Jews, arabs and non-arabs have lived together relatively peaceably. I have a Jewish friend who just recently got back from the West Bank and he attested to the fact that he was treated as a friend by Palestinians (he at the same time had stories of IDF troops calling Palestinians 'niggers' and 'subhumans').
3:
"Why don't you mention how Jews have been treated in Muslim countries?"
Well, for that matter, why don't I raise how women or ethnic minorities are treated in Afghanistan or Nigeria? Yes, these are issues that people should be campaigning about (at the moment I am involved in a campaign to stop the execution of trade unionists in Iran, so I'm hardly blinkered), but when we are talking about Israel/Palestine, let's keep it focused on Israelis and Palestinians - after all, any solution will need to come from them.
...to be continued...
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
activistupdates
Joined: Mar 6, 2008
Posts: 8 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Soft-spoken
User is
Offline
Age: 28
Country: Australia
|
Re: Palestinian gunmen kill 8 at Jerusalem seminary
March 10, 2008 - 09:41 PM
|
|
And so it begins... the usual misrepresentations and selective quotes that the anonymity of the internet allows - again showing that too many people in this debate become blinded by their 'side'. To bring things back to reality though, I just wanted to clarify my position in relation to a few things.
1:
"it is sad you lack the moral clarity to simply condemn a guy who comes shoots up a school - it is obviously targeting civilians."
I do condemn the killer. If you read my first post I described the attack as "deplorable" and an "atrocity". I am not a supporter of attacks on civilians, whether Israeli or Palestinian. I'm very clear on the morality of the situation.
2:
"Try living in a part of the world where every arab/Muslim depises you and your faith and your right to exist, then this exclusive bit of land comes into perspective."
Does "every arab/Muslim despise you and your faith and your right to exist"? I would say some do (as in all societies), but generally Palestinians are politically conscious enough to distinguish between the state of Israel and Israelis and between Zionism and Judaism. The great efforts of Israelis and Palestinians who are working together against the occupation in places like Bi'lin show that there is a great willingness from most Palestinians to live in a truly democratic and non-sectarian society with Israelis. After all, through most of the history of the region Jews and non-Jews, arabs and non-arabs have lived together relatively peaceably. I have a Jewish friend who just recently got back from the West Bank and he attested to the fact that he was treated as a friend by Palestinians (he at the same time had stories of IDF troops calling Palestinians 'niggers' and 'subhumans').
3:
"Why don't you mention how Jews have been treated in Muslim countries?"
Well, for that matter, why don't I raise how women or ethnic minorities are treated in Afghanistan or Nigeria? Yes, these are issues that people should be campaigning about (at the moment I am involved in a campaign to stop the execution of trade unionists in Iran, so I'm hardly blinkered), but when we are talking about Israel/Palestine, let's keep it focused on Israelis and Palestinians - after all, any solution will need to come from them.
...to be continued...
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
activistupdates
Joined: Mar 6, 2008
Posts: 8 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Soft-spoken
User is
Offline
Age: 28
Country: Australia
|
Re: Palestinian gunmen kill 8 at Jerusalem seminary
March 10, 2008 - 09:42 PM
|
|
4:
"Why did the occupation begin in the first place?"
The occupation of Palestine began following the establishment of the Zionist movement following the Basle conference. Palestine at the time had been under Ottoman occupation but had integrated Jewish, Christian, Muslim and other communities. The Zionists believed that they would be an imperial "outpost of Europe" in Asia and garnered the assistance of the new British occupiers in establishing enclaves for "Jews only" within Palestine. These enclaves had a strict "Jewish labour only" policy and formed paramilitary groups to expel Palestinians from lands they had purchased from absentee landlords. In time they became associated with the British occupation, and their project - of establishing an Apartheid state that would advance across Palestine and ethnically cleanse it behind an "iron wall of bayonets" (to use Jabotinsky's phrase) - became very clear. This led to the 'Great Uprising' of 1936-39 against British colonialism. This was crushed by British troops and the Zionist militias. The enclaves continued to advance, swelled by refugees from the Holocaust who had been denied access elsewhere. At the end of WW2 Britain looked to exit from its direct colonial rule of much of the Mid-East and, under the auspices of the UN proposed that formerly united Palestine be carved up into a Jewish-only area on most of the land and an area for everyone else on the rest. This plan would require the forced transfer of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians into refugee camps - and so was, understandably, rejected by the Palestinians. The Zionist militias, however, had by this time begun massacres of Palestinian villages such as Deir Yassin in a terror campaign designed to drive Palestinians out. When, after Israel declared itself an independent - and exclusive state - the states that would become the Arab League sent token forces to fight Israel to be seen as "doing something for the Palestinians". These forces were defeated by the better armed and organised Zionist militias, who then continued to expel hundreds of thousands of Palestinians and took 78% of Palestine as the exclusive territory for their, mainly European, settlers. In response to this ethnic cleansing a number of Arab League states then expelled their own Jewish populations. The new Israeli state, however, was not content with it's current "part" of Palestine - they wanted "all" of it (for some, this included the Sinai and Jordan).
...to be continued...
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
|
Display posts from:
|
