 Author |
 Post
|
 |
|
Ashraf
Joined: Jan 31, 2004
Posts: 628 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male & 39
Country: Saudi Arabia
|
The IDF butchers children...again
March 1, 2008 - 03:45 PM
|
|
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/0C8EBD66-032E-4470-82FB-005D6A2B5186.htm
"Fifty-four people were killed during Saturday's raids alone."
"Rana el-Hindi from Save the Children, speaking from inside the Gaza Strip, told Al Jazeera that children were suffering greatly from the Israeli bombardment.
"In the last three days at least 19 children have been killed ... it's a real concern for all organisations here," she said."
"Eissam Younis, director of the Al Mizan Centre for Human Rights in Gaza, told Al Jazeera that the Israeli army was "intentionally and systematically targeting civilians" and criticised world powers for their muted response.
"Israel puts itself above the law because the international community is always silent," he said."
-----------------------
I made sure my children witness the barbaric acts of the zionists today on Gaza so when they grow up they won't be fooled like many others who still believe there can be peace with such monsters The zionists will remain the enemy for the Palestinian people, the Arab people and all the Muslims till the end of time and no stupid "peace talks" can alter that.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Sockit2Ya
Joined: Feb 27, 2007
Posts: 311 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 30
Country: Canada
Province/State: Northwest Territories
|
Re: The IDF butchers children...again
March 1, 2008 - 04:38 PM
|
|
And yet those children would be alive and well today if Hamas just stopped firing rockets into Israel.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Luke Lieberman
Joined: Feb 13, 2003
Posts: 3007 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 33
Country: United States
Province/State: California
|
Re: The IDF butchers children...again
March 2, 2008 - 01:22 PM
|
|
Please - help me understand - Israel pulled out og Gaza - they didn't even get involved when Hamas overthrew the PA in Gaza -
all they wanted was to be left alone - and yet you guys just kept firing rockets at them
didn't you KNOW that eventually the Israelis would tire of being fired upon and react?
What did you expect would happen?
Hamas has no one to blame but themselves - if you want war, you get war - and people die in war.
Palestinian - if you don't want to see your people get hurt - might I suggest peace?
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Hayk
Joined: Dec 20, 2005
Posts: 964 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
 Virtual Volunteer
Country: Egypt
Province/State: Al Qahirah
City: Al Qahirah
|
Re: The IDF butchers children...again
March 2, 2008 - 04:15 PM
|
|
At this time I will agree with Luke.
Israel goes to certain extent for concessions, although sometimes making one step ahead and two steps back. However, there is visibly at least, some movement.
What Hamas does is not only undermining any unified talks of peace settlement and eventuallly evolving into a two state regime of the region, but it takes control of Gaza and fires rockets into Israel. I am not a fan of IDF at all, but Hamas, if nothing else, gives all possible pretexts and excuses for IDF to react, and it turns out IDF is just as "precise" in its targetting of rocket launchers as American precision bombs were in targetting Iraqi insurgents.
The point is the following. Finger-pointing is not going to help. One side - as it stands it is Israel - is at least showing some willingness to talk to and work with Abbas. As things are now, all Hamas does is to bring havoc and destruction not only upon its proper self but upon the entire populaiton of Gaza who suffer the consequences.
The fact that Hamas - yes, it also does bunch of other stuff including charity and running schools in the region - is fighting now for liberation of Palestinian territories serves a priori as a pretext to advance its own agenda, which, contrary to its claims, brings nothing but misery to its people, as time has shown.
Time has come that Hamas must put what is best for its people before what is best or perceived to be best for itself. So far Hamas fails to do so and not only doesn't achieve its stated goals but causes even more misery.
So why continue? Why persevere? Maybe afterall, peace could be a better option..
This post was edited on: 2008-03-02 at 04:20 PM by: mnopq
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Ashraf
Joined: Jan 31, 2004
Posts: 628 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 39
Country: Saudi Arabia
|
Re: The IDF butchers children...again
March 3, 2008 - 11:46 AM
|
|
For months,Hamas did not fire a single rocket into "Israel" and chose unilaterally to cease fire activities.. and what was the outcome?.The Israelis bombarded Gaza continuously for alleging that they will not tolerate "terrorism" and will not allow a "Hamasestan" to exist next door.
"Israel" never pulled out of Gaza. I am not buying that crap.When you pull out of an occupied territory, you refrain from using your military force every time you wish against that territory, and you refrain from threatening the people of that territory with a new "holocaust"
And the rockets excuse is one of the silliest I have ever heard. Nablus which is in West Bank is continuously being attacked by the IDF despite that there is no single Qassam rocket being fired from that region, and despite that Abbas has surrendered to the wishes of the zionists and called for abandoning the resistance groups within Fateh. The Israelis are just using the excuse of the Qassam to justify burning all of Gaza and killing whoever they wish whenever they want.
The International law gives the occupied every right to use force to combat the occupier. It seems the law is applied on everyone except "the "chosen people of God"
This post was edited on: 2008-03-03 at 12:00 PM by: Palestinian
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Luke Lieberman
Joined: Feb 13, 2003
Posts: 3007 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 33
Country: United States
Province/State: California
|
Re: The IDF butchers children...again
March 3, 2008 - 12:07 PM
|
|
"For months,Hamas did not fire single rocket into "Israel" and what was the outcome?"
Nonsense - there have been over 4000 rockets fired into southern Israel in the last year.
For a time it was Islamic Jihad who fired them - and Hamas did nothing to stop them.
Palestinian - this is a false arguement you make - when Hamas took over control of Gaza - they became responsible for what happens in Gaza - they always had the power to stop Islamic Jihad from firing rockets - but they never did.
All the while Israel made it perfectly clear what would happen if the rockets did not stop.
I'll tell you what - lets try an experiment - lets see Hamas make sure that no rockets are fired randomly at Israeli civilians -
and by none I mean ZERO - from Hamas or Jihad or any other group -
and then lets see if Israel quiets down.
can't you see that political pressure has been building for months inside Israel for the government to stop the rockets attacks?
This post was edited on: 2008-03-03 at 12:21 PM by: mnopq (Moderator)
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Hayk
Joined: Dec 20, 2005
Posts: 964 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Virtual Volunteer
Country: Egypt
Province/State: Al Qahirah
City: Al Qahirah
|
Re: The IDF butchers children...again
March 3, 2008 - 12:42 PM
|
|
Palestinian,
I agree with you. My personal point is that Israel uses disproportionate means of responding and overstretches itself, as you correctly pointed out, to territories of no apparent relevance or origin of rockets. Usual justification is based on intelligence, false or true, which as we know is a rather feeble argument.
But let's ask a simple question. What does Hamas do on its foreign policy front to alleviate sufferings and give hope of anticipating a long-term solution to those destitute people? I know well that Hamas, not unlike Hezballah, is or rather was very entrenched in the Palestinian society both in Gaza and West bank. But this is not enough.
Hamas must firstly cease that inter-factual struggle. This entailed many innocent deaths, unaccountable to Israel (later on Israel provided arms to Fatah).
What is the situation now? People are striving to find daily food. The rampant unemployment is putting everyone on streets and there is no other choice but to either take arms or do some other illegal smuggling. Lack of electricity, water, and basic infrastructures care reality in the region. Gazans hope that Egypt, seemingly the only other Arab nation whose actions are louder than words, will help, and it does but for how long and in how much?
Hamas must firstly seek the well-being of its the nation it so ardently claims to represent and be voice of. What does Hamas do? It shoots rockets on Israel knowing well in advance what Israelis can and will do. There was a year or two ago a talk of indeterminate truce with Israel. This is the only way. Hypothetically, if Hamas were strong enough, a final face-off with Israel would not be senseless, but it happens that it isn't. Time has come for it to mature and realize this fact for itself.
And not doing anything to stop other factions from firing rockets from its controlled territories is equivalent to being an accomplice and partaker.
This post was edited on: 2008-03-03 at 01:02 PM by: mnopq
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Arslan Jumaniyazov
Joined: May 13, 2004
Posts: 1358 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 32
Country: Turkmenistan
Province/State: Dashoguz
|
Re: The IDF butchers children...again
March 3, 2008 - 01:58 PM
|
|
Hayk,
There is a growing number of people among the Israeli population who want the Israeli government to accept the truce offered by Hamas, but the right-wingers don't want to look "weak" and agree with it. The truce has been consistently rejected by Israel.
I agree that the rockets--violence in general--begets more violence. But I fail to see that Israel simply wants to be left alone. The expansionism is clearly visible. At the very moment of negotiations at Annapolis, Israel announced new settlements in East Jerusalem, and since then more settlements in the West Bank.
Arslan
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Ashraf
Joined: Jan 31, 2004
Posts: 628 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 39
Country: Saudi Arabia
|
Re: The IDF butchers children...again
March 3, 2008 - 02:03 PM
|
|
If we were to be fair and reasonable, then we have to give Hamas the opportunity to prove itself before we judge it failed or not on the foreign policy front. The fact is as you already know - Hamas was not given any chance from the very beginning. whether from Fateh which I can safely say lost its mind after losing the election to Hamas, the world community which refuses to let an Islamist party have the chance to rule, and ending with the zionists who will only accept any democratic choice by the Palestinian people if and only if the winner serves their agenda.
Secondly, the siege by the Israelis violates every human right known to mankind today. Correct me if I am wrong,but isn't the occupation responsible for providing the necessities of life to the people it occupies?. Why are the Palestinian people an exception to the rule?. I know some people here will yell and scream like hell arguing that "there is no occupation" and I say to that BULL!. The Israelis are controlling everything including land, natural resources,water and borders..just name it. So it is their reponsibility whether they like it or not to provide those necessaities to the Gazans..and the siege we we are witnessing today is a war crime.plain and simple.
Thirdly, what are the Qassam rockets compared to the war machine of the Israelis?? Should the Palestinians get a slap after another get killed and get their homes and properties demolished and do nothing?? Should we just surrender and wait for the Israeli F16 and do nothing?. The firing of the rockets is just a response to the daily killing by Israeli war machine.. If the Israelis stop their madness, I assure you ..you will see no rockets.
This post was edited on: 2008-03-03 at 02:39 PM by: Palestinian
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Sockit2Ya
Joined: Feb 27, 2007
Posts: 311 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 30
Country: Canada
Province/State: Northwest Territories
|
Re: The IDF butchers children...again
March 3, 2008 - 03:10 PM
|
|
If Hamas wants a war, why doesn't Israel just give it to them? Invade Gaza and crush Hamas.
It would be better for both the Palestinians and Israelis with Hamas out of the picture. No more rocket attakcs and no more retaliation.
This post was edited on: 2008-03-03 at 03:21 PM by: stevew
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Luke Lieberman
Joined: Feb 13, 2003
Posts: 3007 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 33
Country: United States
Province/State: California
|
Re: The IDF butchers children...again
March 3, 2008 - 05:24 PM
|
|
Arslan - to say Hamas has always been in favor of truce and peace and the Israelis have been the ones rejecting is disingenious.
Hamas rejects Israel's right to exist - they have the clear intention of destroying the country.
What is more - how many "truces" did Hamas have with Fatah in the last 3 years? How many times did they break the truce? I think they were in a 'truce' when Hamas broke it and overthrew the PA in Gaza.
If Hamas cannot even abide by a truce with other Palestinians how can you expect them to hold a truce with their sworn enemies?
The other issue is the terms of a truce - Hamas is offering one which would give them control of the boarders - is this truce merely an opportunity for Hamas to bring in bigger weapons from Iran?
All this would do is make the next conflict that much bigger.
"At the very moment of negotiations at Annapolis, Israel announced new settlements in East Jerusalem, and since then more settlements in the West Bank. "
And then they reversed themselves - the settlement in East Jerusalem has been frozen - and there have not been any new settlements in the West Bank since 2005.
"Correct me if I am wrong,but isn't the occupation responsible for providing the necessities of life to the people it occupies?"
Sure - Palestinian - please tell me - you think that Hamas should fire rockets at Israel right??
now are you saying that Israel should be responsible for giving you fuel for the very rockets you fire at it?
If you want to destroy them - why should they help you?
If it is Hamas's avowed policy to destroy Israel - why should the Israelis help you?
As for giving Hamas's foreign policy a chance - the International community indeed gave Hamas a chance -
The Quartet said - Recognize Israel's right to exist, abide by past agreements, and renounce the use of violence against civilians.
These were the same conditions that were demanded of Arafat - and when he agreed the PA was recognized by the world community.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Luke Lieberman
Joined: Feb 13, 2003
Posts: 3007 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 33
Country: United States
Province/State: California
|
Re: The IDF butchers children...again
March 3, 2008 - 05:25 PM
|
|
"what are the Qassam rockets compared to the war machine of the Israelis?? "
I don't know - isn't it foolish to fire them and provoke the Israelis?
YOU were very happy to tell me about how Hamas was making life "A living hell" for the Israelis by firing these rockets -
It has been obvious for months that these rockets attacks were going to provoke a response - and now that it has come you act like it is some great surprise.
Palestinian - you have such a morally bankrupt position - you glorify war - and have told me that you want to fight a war for 1000 years to destroy Israel -
and yet when Israel reacts - and gives you the very war you have been calling for - you say it like a 'Holocaust'
It is total hypocracy - you cannot ask for war and then cry when it comes.
If you promote PEACE then you have a right to lament the violence.
If you promote WAR and glory in the murder of Israeli civilians - then don't come crying to me when the Israeli fight back.
you should be able to attack them, but they should not attack you - is that you point?
"Should the Palestinians get a slap after another get killed and get their homes and properties demolished and do nothing??"
Islamic Jihad was firing these rockets constantly - regardless of what the Israelis were doing - and YOU were in favor of it.
I told you MONTHS ago what would happen to Gaza if Hamas did not act responsibly - we had this conversation when Hamas took over Gaza.
I asked you how would you fight the very people who supplied your water and power - and you said "we have faith in Allah you wouldn't understand"
Palestinian - when you are ready to focus on BUILDING your community - instead focusing on DESTROYING Israel - then you will find that people are ready to help you.
Right now - you are all fired up to pick a fight - and then when you get your butt kicked you come crying - its absurd.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Arslan Jumaniyazov
Joined: May 13, 2004
Posts: 1358 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 32
Country: Turkmenistan
Province/State: Dashoguz
|
Re: The IDF butchers children...again
March 3, 2008 - 07:50 PM
|
|
Arslan - to say Hamas has always been in favor of truce and peace and the Israelis have been the ones rejecting is disingenious.
It is convenient to add "has always been in favor of truce" into my mouth to make it easy for you to reject, isn't it? What is disingenious is to claim that Hamas cannot observe the truce without ever trying it. It is a fact that Israel has not tried any truce with Hamas.
"At the very moment of negotiations at Annapolis, Israel announced new settlements in East Jerusalem, and since then more settlements in the West Bank. "
And then they reversed themselves - the settlement in East Jerusalem has been frozen - and there have not been any new settlements in the West Bank since 2005.
Why were they announcement at the very moment of negotiations, any ideas?
I am not sure of your claim that there have not been any settlements since 2005. See my next post.
Arslan
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Arslan Jumaniyazov
Joined: May 13, 2004
Posts: 1358 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 32
Country: Turkmenistan
Province/State: Dashoguz
|
Re: The IDF butchers children...again
March 3, 2008 - 07:52 PM
|
|
Israel: Expanding Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territories
Human Rights Watch
Letter to President George W. Bush
......
You recently reiterated Israel’s obligations to stop expanding settlements when you said, on October 20, 2005, following your meeting with Palestinian President Abbas: “Israel should not undertake any activity that contravenes its road map obligations, or prejudices the final status negotiations with regard to Gaza, the West Bank, and Jerusalem. This means that Israel must remove unauthorized outposts and stop settlement expansion.” Israel has acted contrary to these obligations, escalating the building of settlements in 2005. According to the Israeli Central Bureau of Statistics, in the first half of 2005, there was a 28% increase in settlement housing starts compared to the same period in 2004. Israel now proposes to further expand West Bank settlements in the coming year.
......
On December 26, the Ministry of Housing released tenders for the construction of 228 housing units in the West Bank settlements of Beitar Ilit and Efrat; on December 19, , the Ministry of Housing published tenders for constructing 137 new housing units in the West Bank settlements of Ariel and Karnei Shomron; and on December 14, Israeli Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz’s approved the construction of approximately 300 new homes in the West Bank settlements of Maale Adumim, Bracha and Nokdim. Maale Adumim is one of the largest and fastest growing settlements in the West Bank, with some 30,000 inhabitants. The settlement is located east of Jerusalem and adjacent to the much-publicized area of “E-1,” the last remaining site for potential Palestinian development around settlement-encircled East Jerusalem. The Israeli government also has made clear that, despite U.S. opposition, it plans to build 3,500 housing units in E-1 and to include Ma'ale Adumim and E-1 on the western side (the “Israeli side”) of the metal and concrete barrier that Israel is building, mostly inside the OPT (hereinafter, the “wall”). Such actions would effectively sever the West Bank in two by cutting the already limited Palestinian north-south access routes through the West Bank. In addition, a wall encircling E-1 and Ma’ale Adumim would make access to East Jerusalem, the center of Palestinian economic and religious life, virtually impossible from the rest of the West Bank, except through limited checkpoint crossings in the wall, most of which Israel has not yet funded or built.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Ashraf
Joined: Jan 31, 2004
Posts: 628 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 39
Country: Saudi Arabia
|
Re: The IDF butchers children...again
March 4, 2008 - 11:18 AM
|
|
luke,
You are the one who is morally corrupt. I never glorified war...those are your words not mine.I stated several times and on numerous occasions that the Palestinians will resist the zionist occupation even if that takes them 1000 years. We will fight this aggression even with stones or with our bare hands if needed And once again...I will not recognize the illegal occupation of Palestine. It is not my problem that you still don't get it.
I wonder what would you have said had your ancestors in Nazi Germany been still under the Nazi control!. Would you have told them to do nothing and accept the way it was because Nazi Germany had an overwhelmingly much powerful force?. You have the right to glorify your friends in Tel Aviv and I have the right to condemn them.
Lastly, you know very well that Hamas offered several times a long-time truce with the zionists and it was always the zionists who objected and chose to bombard Gaza as a response to this offer. Don't come now and lecture me about violence and peace.
Enough said
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
|
Display posts from:
|
Home
Community
