TIGed

Switch headers Switch to TIGweb.org

Are you an TIG Member?
Click here to switch to TIGweb.org


Home Community Discussion BoardsIssuesPeace & ConflictDid Mohammed preach peace or terrorism?

« BACK TO FORUM

Discussion Boards Guidelines Discussion Board Guidelines
FAQ

Thread Pages «  1 2 3 4 5 6 7  »
Author
Post
Jason Foster

Joined: Jun 22, 2007
Posts: 84 (view all)
Poster Rank: Chatterbox
User is Offline

Age: 48
Country: United Kingdom
Province/State: London (City of)
City: London
Re: Did Mohammed preach peace or terrorism?
Feb 15, 2008

The point of the thread, which I should have rephrased to make it less offensive, is that when non-Muslims read through these 'negative' and violent verses, they are going to interpretate it in a very different way than Muslims who regard this text as infallible and holy.


As a prophet, Mohammed should not have try to justify the use of violence, no matter what the circumstances. Prophets should be above that, they should not use God to compel people to use violence and terror.


back to top  |   link to this post
Member Profile foster88 PROFILE TIG Messenger TIG MESSENGER
Ashraf

Joined: Jan 31, 2004
Posts: 628 (view all)
Poster Rank: Blabbermouth
User is Offline

Gender & Age: Male, 45
Country: Saudi Arabia
Re: Did Mohammed preach peace or terrorism?
Feb 17, 2008

Foster,
Suppose a man (and I won't say his name) was expelled from his homeland for 10 years, persecuted, and threatened with death by his own tribe wherever he or his companions went. And suppose his tribe fought him and tortured his companions for one reason..believing in one God..and when he was finally victorious, he said to his enemies: "Go you are free"

Would you call that man a man of terrorism or a man of peace?

This post was edited on: 2008-02-18 at 02:17 PM by: Palestinian


back to top  |   link to this post
Member Profile Palestinian PROFILE TIG Messenger TIG MESSENGER
Jason Foster

Joined: Jun 22, 2007
Posts: 84 (view all)
Poster Rank: Chatterbox
User is Offline

Age: 48
Country: United Kingdom
Province/State: London (City of)
City: London
Re: Did Mohammed preach peace or terrorism?
Feb 19, 2008

Well mate that would be a step in the right direction. But I would not be able to call him a man of peace based on this one instance while disregarding the other actions of the prophet.


back to top  |   link to this post
Member Profile foster88 PROFILE TIG Messenger TIG MESSENGER
dromarof

Joined: Dec 24, 2005
Posts: 348 (view all)
Poster Rank: Blabbermouth
User is Offline

Gender & Age: Male, 45
Country: Japan
Re: Did Mohammed preach peace or terrorism?
Feb 20, 2008

Foster88,
I would like to draw your attention to some points, if I may:
1- regarding the issue, please check the Bible, what is God saying in the OT?
2- Jesus said that he was there to fulfill the law of Moses, which means his approval of what was in the OT.
3- In the NT, when Jesus was expecting to be caught, and before getting into the garden to pray, he asked his disciples to carry every weapon they can get there hands on, he was expecting a battle, which didn't take place because they all fled him.
4- Please compare the rules of engagement in the Bible (kill the men, women, and children, even the babies) to that of Mohammed (peace be upon him) "don't kill a woman, a child or an old man, don't destroy a house, a church, or a place where God is worshipped (no matter what religion), and don't cut a tree".
5- The Jews lived with Muslims in Andalusia for 800 years, and they fled when the Christians entered for fear of presecution, what does this tell you?
6- Which Muslims army entered Indonesia, the biggest Islamic country regarding number of population?? None!!! They were simply brought to Islam by dealing with Muslim traders.
Thanks.


back to top  |   link to this post
Member Profile dromarof PROFILE TIG Messenger TIG MESSENGER
Jason Foster

Joined: Jun 22, 2007
Posts: 84 (view all)
Poster Rank: Chatterbox
User is Offline

Age: 48
Country: United Kingdom
Province/State: London (City of)
City: London
Re: Did Mohammed preach peace or terrorism?
Feb 21, 2008

1- regarding the issue, please check the Bible, what is God saying in the OT?
2- Jesus said that he was there to fulfill the law of Moses, which means his approval of what was in the OT.
3- In the NT, when Jesus was expecting to be caught, and before getting into the garden to pray, he asked his disciples to carry every weapon they can get there hands on, he was expecting a battle, which didn't take place because they all fled him.
4- Please compare the rules of engagement in the Bible (kill the men, women, and children, even the babies) to that of Mohammed (peace be upon him) "don't kill a woman, a child or an old man, don't destroy a house, a church, or a place where God is worshipped (no matter what religion), and don't cut a tree".
5- The Jews lived with Muslims in Andalusia for 800 years, and they fled when the Christians entered for fear of presecution, what does this tell you?
6- Which Muslims army entered Indonesia, the biggest Islamic country regarding number of population?? None!!! They were simply brought to Islam by dealing with Muslim traders.
Thanks.



1. What does God say in the OT? Can you be more specific and how this relates to the teachings of Jesus the man in the NT?
2.What law of Moses? Please be more specific. You mean the one 'Tho shall not kill'?
3. Can you provide the quote. Do you forget when Peter attacked the guard and cut off his ear, and when Jesus told Peter, 'those that live by the sword shall die by the sword'. Can you provide a quote where Jesus says to slaughter the infidels or says to terrorize his enemies?
4. I was comparing two prophets, Jesus and Mohammed. I wasn't comparing the OT scriptures to the life of Mohammed. I was comapring the life and actions of Jesus to the life and actions of Mohammed.
5. I never heard of this and don't see how it relates to what Jesus taught or how he lived. Did the Christians persecute those Jews, because if they did, they never learned that from Jesus. What does modern day Muslim terrorists tell you about Mohammed and vice versa?
6.I don't understand your point.


back to top  |   link to this post
Member Profile foster88 PROFILE TIG Messenger TIG MESSENGER
Arslan

Joined: May 13, 2004
Posts: 1355 (view all)
Poster Rank: Blabbermouth
User is Offline

Gender & Age: Male, 37
Country: United States
Province/State: Illinois
City: Chicago
Re: Did Mohammed preach peace or terrorism?
Feb 21, 2008

Can you provide a quote where Jesus says to slaughter the infidels or says to terrorize his enemies?

foster88,

Neither Jesus nor the Prophet Muhammad says to slaughter the infidels or says to terrorize his enemies. Niether of them. Your quotes from the Qur'an are mistranslations. It is obvious, you haven't even checked them.

There are several things that need to be kept in mind when you compare these two great and noble people. Jesus's preached only for three years, in his ages between 30-33. That's all. There was no battle that he was involved in. The Prophet Muhammad's prophesy started when he was forty and for the period of four times more than that the entire period of Jesus's preachings, the Prophet Muhammad didn't raise a sword.

He never said that infidels should be slaughtered. He said those infidels in the battle against him and his people should be slaughtered. As it was mentioned above, when they entered Mecca, when the armed conflict ended, everyone in the city of Mecca were forgiven. That's hardly an example of "slaughtering infidels."

Arslan

This post was edited on: 2008-02-21 at 11:50 AM by: Arslanik


back to top  |   link to this post
Member Profile Arslanik PROFILE TIG Messenger TIG MESSENGER
dromarof

Joined: Dec 24, 2005
Posts: 348 (view all)
Poster Rank: Blabbermouth
User is Offline

Gender & Age: Male, 45
Country: Japan
Re: Did Mohammed preach peace or terrorism?
Feb 21, 2008

Foster88
Thank you for your post.
I will answer your points collectively if I may. First of all, please read the following verses from the Bible (the OT is a part of the Bible, right?):
"Moses saw that the people were running wild and that Aaron had let them get out of control and so become a laughingstock to their enemies. So he stood at the entrance to the camp and said, "Whoever is for the LORD, come to me." And all the Levites rallied to him.
Then he said to them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: 'Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.' " The Levites did as Moses commanded, and that day about three thousand of the people died. Then Moses said, "You have been set apart to the LORD today, for you were against your own sons and brothers, and he has blessed you this day." Exodus 32:25-29.
The LORD said to Moses, "Take all the leaders of these people, kill them and expose them in broad daylight before the LORD, so that the LORD's fierce anger may turn away from Israel." Number 25:4
The LORD said to Moses, "Treat the Midianites as enemies and kill them" Number 25:16-17


back to top  |   link to this post
Member Profile dromarof PROFILE TIG Messenger TIG MESSENGER
dromarof

Joined: Dec 24, 2005
Posts: 348 (view all)
Poster Rank: Blabbermouth
User is Offline

Gender & Age: Male, 45
Country: Japan
Re: Did Mohammed preach peace or terrorism?
Feb 21, 2008

They fought against Midian, as the LORD commanded Moses, and killed every man. Among their victims were Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur and Reba—the five kings of Midian. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals, and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar the priest and the Israelite assembly at their camp on the plains of Moab, by the Jordan across from Jericho. Moses, Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the community went to meet them outside the camp. Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle. "Have you allowed all the women to live?" he asked them. "They were the ones who followed Balaam's advice and were the means of turning the Israelites away from the LORD in what happened at Peor, so that a plague struck the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man." Number 31:7-18


back to top  |   link to this post
Member Profile dromarof PROFILE TIG Messenger TIG MESSENGER
dromarof

Joined: Dec 24, 2005
Posts: 348 (view all)
Poster Rank: Blabbermouth
User is Offline

Gender & Age: Male, 45
Country: Japan
Re: Did Mohammed preach peace or terrorism?
Feb 21, 2008

The above verses are all instructions by God to Moses in the OT, would you consider these instructions to be obeyed without discussions as they are from God? Jesus said in the NT that he came to Fulfill the the things instructed by Moses, since they both answered to a higher authority, as Jesus himself said in the NT many times that he wasn't speaking of his own will. Please compare these instructions to the instructions given by prophet Mohammed to his companions mentioned on my first post.
Now, is the God of Moses same as the God of Jesus? And if you consider Jesus God, is he the same God who was instructing Moses to do these actions? Is the OT also the word of God? For us, the God of Moses is the same God of Jesus, is the same God of Mohammed.
When you talk about Jesus and Mohammed, you are not comparing 2 men, neither of men were speaking of his own authority, they both answered to the same higher authority, but since you don't believe in Mohammed being a prophet, you just had to make such a comparison. Besides, the thread was not a comparison between two men, it was a question about prophet Mohammed (however it is good that you finally state that Jesus is a prophet, not God, are you?). So, when you talk about prophet Mohammed, you are not talking about a person, you are talking about religion, and a revelation from God in every aspect of his life. Of course, it is up to you to believe it or not, I am just clarifying a point.
As for point 5, please check some history books, I think mnopq (Hayk) had some references on the subject.
As for point 6, I was just proving to you that Islam didn't spread by the sword.
Thank you for taking the time to read my post.
Peace.


back to top  |   link to this post
Member Profile dromarof PROFILE TIG Messenger TIG MESSENGER
dromarof

Joined: Dec 24, 2005
Posts: 348 (view all)
Poster Rank: Blabbermouth
User is Offline

Gender & Age: Male, 45
Country: Japan
Re: Did Mohammed preach peace or terrorism?
Feb 21, 2008

The well-known liberal minded English writer, Bernard Shaw has said: "I have always held the religion of Muhammad (P) in high estimation, because of its wonderful vitality. It is the only religion which appears to me to possess that assimilating capability to the changing phase of existence, which can make itself appeal to every age. I have prophesied about the faith of Muhammad that it would be acceptable to the Europe of tomorrow, and the signs of this are becoming apparent even now. The medieval ecclesiastics, either through ignorance or bigotry, painted Muhammadanism in the darkest colours. They were, in fact, trained both to hate the man, Muhammad, and his religion. To them Muhammad was anti-Christ. I have studied him, the wonderful man, and, in my opinion, far from being anti-Christ, he must be called the Saviour of Humanity. I believe that if a man like him were to assume the leadership of the modern world, he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness".


back to top  |   link to this post
Member Profile dromarof PROFILE TIG Messenger TIG MESSENGER
Luke Lieberman

Joined: Feb 13, 2003
Posts: 2986 (view all)
Poster Rank: Blabbermouth
User is Offline

Gender & Age: Male, 38
Country: United States
Province/State: California
Re: Did Mohammed preach peace or terrorism?
Feb 21, 2008

Dromarof - you don't need to paste entire sections of the text - you get the idea after the first post.

I think Foster is a bit more interested in Jesus than Moses.


But generally speaking this entire debate is silly - the issue is with people who think that the morality of cultures Hundreds and thousands of years ago - should be the literal standard of behavior today.

People cut each others heads off 1000 years ago - it was more the norm -

we should evolve, we should move forward, we should progress.

If you think hacking someones head off is somehow holy or noble - just because people did it a thousand years ago - then you are an fool.

If you want to take the world back into the 12th century rather then the 21st - then you need to be opposed.

These religions and books are good because they give people faith and hope and inspiration - that is religion at its best -


they show us where we have been - but we must look forward and grow, not regress. These religious fanatics - whatever their stripe - are trying to drag us backward - not push us forward.


back to top  |   link to this post
Member Profile luke PROFILE TIG Messenger TIG MESSENGER
dromarof

Joined: Dec 24, 2005
Posts: 348 (view all)
Poster Rank: Blabbermouth
User is Offline

Gender & Age: Male, 45
Country: Japan
Re: Did Mohammed preach peace or terrorism?
Feb 22, 2008

Luke,
Thank you for your post. This post was in reply to Foster88, if reading it bugs it so much, you can simply ignore it.
Foster88 asked for the sections from the Bible I provided them, and this is just because some people might overview the topic without checking the reference. And since I am not charging you for every letter or word I type, it is not for you to object. You can simply pass by the parts you feel so much bored to read (from the Bible).
The title of the thread is very clear, and it talked about what prophet Mohammed did, and what are the teachings. It was not disucssing the effect on today's events. There are tens of threads on the TIG discussing Islam in relation to terrorism, and there are hundreds of posts refuting the idea. I don't want to repeat it all again, about people interpreting everything according to their own agenda, terrorists, crusaders, whatever. The question was very specific, and I posted my answer. Nothing in my answer said that I should go and cut your head off because you are opposing my post, or because you have a different faith, or becuase you are not a believer, or because I simply don't like you. If you understood this from my post, then I suggest that you read it again.
Here is a straight question for you Luke, which you have ignored answering before on one of the threads, what do you think about a Christian on Hamas election bill? A Christian member of Hamas organization? Would that make him an Islamic terrorist?

This post was edited on: 2008-02-22 at 12:39 AM by: dromarof


back to top  |   link to this post
Member Profile dromarof PROFILE TIG Messenger TIG MESSENGER
dromarof

Joined: Dec 24, 2005
Posts: 348 (view all)
Poster Rank: Blabbermouth
User is Offline

Gender & Age: Male, 45
Country: Japan
Re: Did Mohammed preach peace or terrorism?
Feb 22, 2008

Foster88 (not luke),
I searched for an answer to your question:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alhambra_decree
"Beginning in the 8th century, Muslim invaders had occupied and settled most of the Iberian Peninsula. Jews who had lived in these regions since Roman times, considered 'people of the book' (dhimmis), thrived under Muslim rule. The relative tolerance of the Muslim rulers attracted Jewish immigration, and Jewish enclaves in Muslim Spanish cities flourished as places of learning and commerce.
The Reconquista was the gradual reconquest of Muslim Spain by the Catholic Monarchs and had a powerful religious flavor: Spain was being reclaimed for Christendom. By the 14th century, almost all of Spain and Portugal had been taken back from the Moors.
Overt hostility against Jews became more pronounced, finding expression in brutal episodes of violence and oppression. Thousands of Jews sought to escape these attacks by converting to Catholicism; they were commonly called conversos or New Christians. At first these conversions seemed an effective solution to the cultural conflict: many converso families met with social and commercial success. But eventually their success made these New Christians unpopular with the church and royal hierarchies.
Many of the ruling Spanish, both secular and religious, viewed Jews with deep suspicion and hostility."
The point here is clear, if Mohammed preached hatered and terrorism instead of tolerance, then the Jews would have fled Spain during Islamic ruling.


back to top  |   link to this post
Member Profile dromarof PROFILE TIG Messenger TIG MESSENGER
Sher Ahmed Khan

Joined: Feb 5, 2008
Posts: 3 (view all)
Poster Rank: Tongue-tied
User is Offline

Gender & Age: Male, 62
Country: Pakistan
Re: Did Mohammed preach peace or terrorism?
Feb 22, 2008

part 1...Originally the civilisations were west[palestine egypt greece italy persia ] and east, that is china india japan etc and urbanias were great capitals with exclusive monopolies and laws...surrounded with tribesmen ...the traffic were safe caravan routes but often the routes were not gauranteed to each other by capitals unless certian shizms were met or the caravans had good relations with the tribal leaders....

both the civilisations have a difference socialogically ...the east was once visited by prince gaultama buddha and in 5 commandments the entire spoan saw no more fighting but that in name of trade ..women etc are used in mythic tales to make the 'element' or say 'exchequer' or product that man should hold in safe keeping...his little kitty! but in the east 'class worship' was truly implemented..which we dont notice amongst much but in the marketplace a showroom selling rolls royce will also serve you in royal manner and from a more expensive cup..the hindu's lived in visible language untill modren age and the classes were noted...

all the while in west the issues were so intricate that prophets 'warners' aposltes 'children carrying signs' were sent or called unto 'foes'' mostly these societies corrupted themselves with wealth and power that they used towards luxury and slavery ,lacvisious sexuality practices and too much use of spells and majic that they derived from prophecies ..reading father abrahams story and prophet lut's story indicate the relation of religious exploitation coming from creating worship of statues and images and social exploitation by homosexuality and openess of women.......too many religious exploitation became a symbol of power in thiese regions until now ..
primarily in history of the world there has been no wars to shut down churches or burning mosques and culture has been the key super power that led societies and had its influence ..


back to top  |   link to this post
Member Profile greatglobalist PROFILE TIG Messenger TIG MESSENGER
Sher Ahmed Khan

Joined: Feb 5, 2008
Posts: 3 (view all)
Poster Rank: Tongue-tied
User is Offline

Gender & Age: Male, 62
Country: Pakistan
Re: Did Mohammed preach peace or terrorism?
Feb 22, 2008

when muslim sultans took india they never forced a hindu to become a muslim and no war but waterloo 'panipat' a trade war ground that stood between the great cities of lahore'luxor''and dehli ....when a conquerer toook dehli he then had lordship to trade over west and the east both... the hindu culturists competed with muslims and soon muslims included a saintly form of music that they extracted out of hindus spirituality and more hindus reformed themselves.the great mughal emperor connected the entire world and took away the swords of rajputs but through marriage and legel inheritance of a rajas daughter..and hindus women started to veil and cover themselves more......
the last war that ahmed fought in 17th century brought the marhattas to shed away and share trade and production or great hindustan that he named india...
in the www2 germans wanted a chair in euro club 'terms white' but the war got troubled after euro club itself was no specific trade order instead a civil leaque with modren behavior....
always when you reade history it is written like 'talisman' ot talism' like majic''''
there has been no war but a weaker unity empowering to spy in secrets of elder powerrfull,they steal ,buy information to search the musk and end up quarrelling...the crusades that we say christian muslim fighting is vry different and inside the christian kingdoms the catholic church penetrated and empowred itself ...at the borders the princes of austria and turkey ran networks of cattle thiefs and ropers at banks of trade routes....
after adolf hitlers 'desire' to make great germany ,roosevelt has desired to control the british colonies..although the british never had absolute powers and were inclined to general improvement that was ordered ...the weath that europe earned from serving the countries and empires and controlling trade brought immense wealth and prizes like 'kohinoor diamond' that queen elizabeth 2 wears on her crown ..
there is no controversay around the isles but except a rule that evolved of begining of the century 'one in [south africa]/india concerning 'untouchables' and one in paris /europe ..the paris zionists got together and announced the need for a seperate exchequere.......
such stories of 'development' and 'security' have mixed up the sanctity of real religious beliefs and created killings and illigitimate trade in our modren society hat has been been enriching itelf with science technology and communication......


back to top  |   link to this post
Member Profile greatglobalist PROFILE TIG Messenger TIG MESSENGER
Display posts from:

« BACK TO FORUM

Forum Jump:


Thread Pages «  1 2 3 4 5 6 7  »

All times are GMT-05:00

» Check that you are logged in!

You cannot create new threads in this forum
You cannot post replies in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot edit/delete your posts in this forum
Administrators: angiex, anuriandima84, BeeWall, Fatimamirza09, Liamjod, Quincy-348, shamricardo, smensah
Moderators: anuriandima84, danieln25, darhcik, janepe, Liamjod